Nonmagic sneaker build?

[danzibr]

I did a bit of googling but didn't come up with anything.

I'm looking for, well, not a build exactly, but suggestions to make a good sneaker who isn't a full caster. Preferably not a shapechanger either. I'm sure becoming fine and sneaking around works well, but that's not what I'm after.

I... really just don't know what's out there. I've made plenty of characters but never a skill monkey or sneaky character. I read a thread about hide and move silently kind of sucking, or rather easily overcome.

[Waker]

Were you looking for specific build advice or just really general stuff to make sneaking easier?
Darkstalker for example is considered to be a staple feat for anyone who is dedicated to sneaking. It's found in Lords of Madness and negates the automatic find-you senses, instead requiring the creature to still make a spot or listen check to find you.

[BowStreetRunner]

I actually toyed around with building a character like this a while back. You can look at the archived thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums//archive/index.php?t-256086.html).

[Devmaar]

Be a Whisper Gnome.

And +1 to Darkstalker, it's basically required to do this well

[Randomguy]

Factotum or rogue changeling?

[danzibr]

Were you looking for specific build advice or just really general stuff to make sneaking easier?
Darkstalker for example is considered to be a staple feat for anyone who is dedicated to sneaking. It's found in Lords of Madness and negates the automatic find-you senses, instead requiring the creature to still make a spot or listen check to find you.
The latter. And I'll totally check out Darkstalker, sounds great.

[avr]

A swordsage isn't a full caster, but they get some neat tricks. Short range teleportation thru shadows is one of them. Getting the scent ability via Hunter's Sense is handy for sneaking if you don't have darkvision, too. Might be a bit on the magic side for you depending on what exactly you're thinking of.

Also, if you're not going to be using any sort of flight or spider climb you're going to want to be really good at mundane climbing. Not just to get over obstacles, sometimes you just don't want to touch the floor.

[StreamOfTheSky]

The Guide to Proper Scouting is very helpful, but unfortunately BG is down due to hacking or whatever currently. Hmmm... if I copy/paste the cached version (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WvJV2JWq9GcJ:brilliantgameologists. com/boards/index.php%3Ftopic%3D11034+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) are you able to click on and open the guide to read?

[danzibr]

The Guide to Proper Scouting is very helpful, but unfortunately BG is down due to hacking or whatever currently. Hmmm... if I copy/paste the cached version (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WvJV2JWq9GcJ:brilliantgameologists. com/boards/index.php%3Ftopic%3D11034+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) are you able to click on and open the guide to read?
Sure am! Thanks, I'm reading it now.

[JaronK]

Hey, you found it! I was looking for that. Maybe I should rescue it to here.

JaronK

[Slipperychicken]

Invisibility (Superior version ideally, hard to get on a non-fullcaster, though) and Silence (ideal if you can shape it to only affect the square you're in) should do wonders for your sneaking. Invisible and inaudible, just pick up Darkstalker and some Divination-counters and you're all set to sneak right past 99% of possible encounters.

And don't forget Sleight of Hand. Hit the DC 40 to do it as a free action, and you can strip your enemies of all unattended items (including money, spell component pouches, holy symbols, magical foci, Bags of Holding, Haversacks, wands, scrolls and ammunition) in less than a turn.

[danzibr]

Invisibility (Superior version ideally, hard to get on a non-fullcaster, though) and Silence (ideal if you can shape it to only affect the square you're in) should do wonders for your sneaking. Invisible and inaudible, just pick up Darkstalker and some Divination-counters and you're all set to sneak right past 99% of possible encounters.

And don't forget Sleight of Hand. Hit the DC 40 to do it as a free action, and you can strip your enemies of all unattended items (including money, spell component pouches, holy symbols, magical foci, Bags of Holding, Haversacks, wands, scrolls and ammunition) in less than a turn.
Indeed indeed, that would be quite awesome. I wonder how to get Greater Invisibility and Silence on myself as a non-caster.

[Lonely Tylenol]

I prefer Nike. Adidas tend to wear on the sole too much.

As far as being stealthy, throw my vote in for a Whisper Gnome Factotum with several iterations of Font of Inspiration. For a more nonmagical feel, don't concern yourself overly much with Arcane Dilettante and Opportunistic Piety (although, by all means, use them as much as you are comfortable).

[Vaz]

A Small Dark Creature gives non Magic Pizazz; Darkvision, HiPS, and +26 Hide or something stupid at Level 2.

Throw in Shadow Hand Swordsage for the Shadow Jaunt Line for Telehopping into Shadow.

[nedz]

Nice guide, but why no Seeker of the Misty Isle ?

Invisibility is useful, but has too many counters:
Dispelling Screen, Invisibility Purge, See Invisibility, True Seeing, Glitterdust, ...
If you are relying on this spell then you will be caught, usually by the high level casters. This is unlikely to end well.

[Slipperychicken]

Indeed indeed, that would be quite awesome. I wonder how to get Greater Invisibility and Silence on myself as a non-caster.

Ah, I see what you meant now. You said non full-caster, which seems to have been the source of confusion. That made it sound like you would accept partial casting, like from a Factotum. You can certainly UMD wands, or wear custom items. You can most likely settle for regular Invisibility until you can afford the Greater version (only one spell level of difference IIRC).

[BowStreetRunner]

Ah, I see what you meant now. You said non full-caster, which seems to have been the source of confusion. That made it sound like you would accept partial casting, like from a Factotum.

Actually, I think the confusion stems from the Title: "Nonmagic sneaker build?" versus the original post "I'm looking for...a good sneaker who isn't a full caster."

So does the op want nonmagic, or just non-full caster?

[danzibr]

I was thinking something like Bard would be ok but no casting might be preferable. Just a really sneaky bastard.