Shady's Dragon Question Thread

[ShadowFireLance]

Questions about Dragons?
Ask me.
From now on, Im going to say whether I have a 3.5 source or a non-Dnd source.

[silverwolfer]

How would a lawful good or otherwise dragon participate in the monster manual 5 dragon games, without it going against her alignment?

[Arcanist]

These Q&A threads are starting to get a little... umm... Excessive...

Anywho! So how does the Half-Dragon template interact with actual dragons? For example: A male Silver Dragon mates with a female Red Dragon. What would the creatures dominant type be? Silver or Red?

[ShadowFireLance]

How would a lawful good or otherwise dragon participate in the monster manual 5 dragon games, without it going against her alignment?

Ah, The Great Game, Xvorentaail....
It would not go against her alignment, in the same way Chess would not go against the Alignment, She Would wager Other things, Not lives or slaves like a Evil Dragon would.

[Invader]

These Q&A threads are starting to get a little... umm... Excessive...

Anywho! So how does the Half-Dragon template interact with actual dragons? For example: A male Silver Dragon mates with a female Red Dragon. What would the creatures dominant type be? Silver or Red?

This was discussed before at some point. I believe the answer was in the draconomicon or dragon magazine but I can't remember the ruling.

[ShadowFireLance]

This was discussed before at some point. I believe the answer was in the draconomicon or dragon magazine but I can't remember the ruling.

It would depend on Gender....Male=Sliver, and Female=Red.

[Invader]

It would depend on Gender....Male=Sliver, and Female=Red.

Actually I don't think there is an official ruling on what would happen.

If a male dragon and a female dragon mated you'd still just have a dragon. If a silver half dragon mated with a female dragon the offspring would have 2 half dragon templates.

[afroakuma]

These Q&A threads are starting to get a little... umm... Excessive...

Not my fault people like to bandwagon. :smalltongue:

[ShadowFireLance]

Not my fault people like to bandwagon. :smalltongue:


Sorry about that, I just figured I would share my Knowledge of Dragons, I do consider myself a Expert on the matter...

[Nettlekid]

If you wanted to create some dragon NPCs and you wanted them to have levels in some of the dragon prestige classes from Draconomicon, is there any way for that to happen regardless of age categories?
Basically, my question is about the correlation between dragon hit dice and age. In the MM, dragons have a certain age before having X number of HD and size. For example, a Very Young Red Dragon has 10 HD, and BAB of 10. If that Red Dragon took 10 levels of Duskblade because they wanted to take the Elemental Master prestige class, they'd have 20 HD, BAB 20, and their build would be Red Dragon 10/Duskblade 10. Would they still be a Large, Very Young dragon with a breath weapon of 4d10, or would the 20 HD mean they were a Huge, Young Adult dragon with a breath weapon of 10d10?
Is there any way for a 50-year-old dragon to take levels in Elemental Master?

[Invader]

If you wanted to create some dragon NPCs and you wanted them to have levels in some of the dragon prestige classes from Draconomicon, is there any way for that to happen regardless of age categories?
Basically, my question is about the correlation between dragon hit dice and age. In the MM, dragons have a certain age before having X number of HD and size. For example, a Very Young Red Dragon has 10 HD, and BAB of 10. If that Red Dragon took 10 levels of Duskblade because they wanted to take the Elemental Master prestige class, they'd have 20 HD, BAB 20, and their build would be Red Dragon 10/Duskblade 10. Would they still be a Large, Very Young dragon with a breath weapon of 4d10, or would the 20 HD mean they were a Huge, Young Adult dragon with a breath weapon of 10d10?
Is there any way for a 50-year-old dragon to take levels in Elemental Master?

It would be a very young red dragon with 10 levels of dusk blade. Racial hit die determine a dragons age/size/etc. The hit die from dusk blade are class related, not racial.

[Nettlekid]

So you could have a 50-100 year old Young Adult Red Dragon with a BAB of 20 take the 12 levels of Elemental Master and still be a Young Adult Red Dragon, despite the 32 HD. Thanks, good to know.
If a dragon went out adventuring and got class levels, would it still gain racial hit dice for its actual age? So if a Wyrmling Red Dragon with 7 HD adventured for 20 years and gained 10 levels of Fighter in those 20 years, would it be a Very Young Red Dragon with 13 dragon HD and 10 Fighter HD?

[willpell]

If you wanted to create some dragon NPCs and you wanted them to have levels in some of the dragon prestige classes from Draconomicon, is there any way for that to happen regardless of age categories?

I'm not familiar with the dragon PRCs; it would depend on how they're written.


Basically, my question is about the correlation between dragon hit dice and age. In the MM, dragons have a certain age before having X number of HD and size. For example, a Very Young Red Dragon has 10 HD, and BAB of 10. If that Red Dragon took 10 levels of Duskblade because they wanted to take the Elemental Master prestige class, they'd have 20 HD, BAB 20, and their build would be Red Dragon 10/Duskblade 10. Would they still be a Large, Very Young dragon with a breath weapon of 4d10

Yes. Class levels never advance a dragon's age. However, as per the rules in Draconomicon, the DM may require that a dragon periodically take dragon HD to represent its physical growth with age, if the campaign covers such a long time period that it makes no sense for the dragon to remain at its current age category. Dragons who advance by HD are required to periodically take "dead" levels which do nothing but increase their LA, delaying the moment when they gain the last needed racial HD and abruptly increase to the next age category, gaining spectacular amounts of extra power all at once.


Is there any way for a 50-year-old dragon to take levels in Elemental Master?

This probably depends on whether your campaign is going epic or not. The Draconomicon tables only spell out how dragon PCs advance their hit dice through ECL 20; if you throw on 10 levels of Duskblade and then resume advancing by HD, you'll get up to ECL 30, but if you want to continue aging (depending on dragon variety, ECL 20 gets you up to Young or Juvenile, so there are no provided rules for becoming older than that), you'll need to work out with your DM exactly what the equivalent LA is and when you have to take the requisite dead levels, as the power level of dragons increases exponentially once they get that old, and the DM will need to decide what high-end powers (like a black dragon's reptile command) are worth in LA terms.

[RFLS]

Xvorentaail....

Pretty sure it's "Xorvintaal." Made-up word spelling matters.


It would depend on Gender....Male=Sliver, and Female=Red.

If I remember correctly, that's the generally accepted ruling, but I think it was found out a few months ago in a thread on that particular topic that the gender dependency was a holdover from fluff in a previous edition, and that there's no actual ruling one way or the other. After that the thread devolved into a discussion on candy-cane dragons.


Not my fault people like to bandwagon. :smalltongue:

Yeah... XD

[TuggyNE]

Not my fault people like to bandwagon. :smalltongue:

When I saw the thread title, I was sooo tempted to post a "TuggyNE's Question Thread Question Thread — brought to you by Xzibit". :smallcool:

[Fable Wright]

How do Xorvintaal dragons view non-Xorvintaal dragons?

How do dragons view Dragonfire Adepts, Sorcerers, and Dragon Shamans? What do they think about Dragonborn?

How many dragons use Bestow Curse to temporarily make them an age category older?

How do dragons view adventurers, castles, and small towns?

Are Shadow Dragons technically Chromatic?

[daemonaetea]

Are there any examples, whether in a source book, novel, or module, of a chromatic dragon becoming good?

In a game I'm running I'm planning to have a blue dragon as a benevolent benefactor of a nation, and while I have a backstory to explain why he had a change of heart I'm curious if there are any other examples of such a thing.

[nedz]

What's the market value of a dragon scale ?

[Saintheart]

Most important, are humans actually crunchy, and do they taste good with ketchup to dragons? Inquiring minds want to know in order to assess whether or not to meddle in thair affairs. :smallcool:

[willpell]

Are there any examples, whether in a source book, novel, or module, of a chromatic dragon becoming good?

Sanctified Creature template in Book of Exalted Deeds; the example creature is a red dragon. And of course Eberron completely does away with the correspondence between alignment and color.

[Xervous]

What principle foundations (on part of the game designers) led to dragons in DnD bumping everything that moves between here and sunday, giving us all these half dragons?

[mattie_p]

Are there any examples, whether in a source book, novel, or module, of a chromatic dragon becoming good?

In a game I'm running I'm planning to have a blue dragon as a benevolent benefactor of a nation, and while I have a backstory to explain why he had a change of heart I'm curious if there are any other examples of such a thing.


Sanctified Creature template in Book of Exalted Deeds; the example creature is a red dragon. And of course Eberron completely does away with the correspondence between alignment and color.

Following up here: The sourcebook Dragons of Eberron is your friend, specifically p100, Vyssilthar - NG Black Dragon. Others abound throughout Eberron.

And Xervous, probably the same tendency that humans have, creating half-everythings (elves, orcs, minotaurs, ogres, giants, etc).

[willpell]

What principle foundations (on part of the game designers) led to dragons in DnD bumping everything that moves between here and sunday, giving us all these half dragons?

I can't speak for the designers, but as far as the dragons themselves, it's just a manifestation of their catlike curiosity and insatiable hungers (not just for food, but for anything that they can consume, sample, apprehend and make their own in whatever fashion strikes their fancy, literally or metaphorically in every case). They probably don't figure it for what we would regard as bestiality, but more like experimenting with household objects and the contents of the vegetable drawer to see what amusing sensations can be elicited, times a hundred because they're superintelligent and can live for centuries. Seducing a random peasant floozy might be fun to a thousand-year-old dragon because it gives him the chance to watch her entire life thereafter, and that of his half-dragon kid, and that of their draconic kid, and using his incredible brain to process what-if scenarios relating to these observations, all while doing hundreds of various other things simultaneously, all as a way to pass the time between conquering small nations. It's the old "where does a 400-pound gorilla sleep" joke taken to its next logical conclusion. Chromatic dragons are decadent hedonists, and metallic dragons are compulsive meddlers in the lives of allies whom they can't help but condescend to; either way, they can come up with no shortage of reasons.

[RFLS]

It's the old "where does a 400-pound gorilla sleep" joke taken to its next logical conclusion.

"What does the 10-ton red dragon sleep with?"
"Anything it wants to!"

...yeah, I'm immature. I've been laughing off and on for 5 minutes now.

[rweird]

What is an Inferndiym? :smallcool:

What dragons exist that have 8 Claws, 6 Heads, 4 Wings, has a breath weapon that deals all damage types in addition to divine damage, somehow is undead, fey, and dragon at the same time, is incorporeal and corporeal at the same time, and at some point can become effectively C+++++? :smallbiggrin: It is said to be a dragon godwyrm, though it has DvR 0, if it has any DvR at all. Any idea what it is. :smalltongue:

You probably wouldn't know, but i found one in a game i'm in and thought a dragon expert might know. :smallamused: :smallcool:

What type of dragon has the fastest fly speed? What about swim? Burrow? Run? etc.

[afroakuma]

Man I'm glad you're in this thread. :smalltongue:

[GnomeGninjas]

How did ShadowFireLance become a dragon expert? Did he memorize the 3.5 dragon books? Did he just pick up a lot of info about dragons over the years?

[Ketiara]

I need the oldest dragon thats still medium size and written down in one of the MM books. (Its for my druid and my DM only allows the monster manuals and core books)

[ShadowFireLance]

How do Xorvintaal dragons view non-Xorvintaal dragons?

How do dragons view Dragonfire Adepts, Sorcerers, and Dragon Shamans? What do they think about Dragonborn?

How many dragons use Bestow Curse to temporarily make them an age category older?

How do dragons view adventurers, castles, and small towns?

Are Shadow Dragons technically Chromatic?

X Dragons view Non X Dragons as not...How to say this...On their level of intellegence.
Dragonfire Adepts and Dragon Shaman are viewed as Useful Servents, Sorc's on the other hand, Who most claim, are considered....Liars at best.
Ones that know they are about to face something they cant contend with at their age.
food, And Large Annoyances at best, Really annoying Turtles, The Grocrey Store.
No, They are Faurean Dragons, Not Chromatic.


Are there any examples, whether in a source book, novel, or module, of a chromatic dragon becoming good?

In a game I'm running I'm planning to have a blue dragon as a benevolent benefactor of a nation, and while I have a backstory to explain why he had a change of heart I'm curious if there are any other examples of such a thing.
Saint Template and Eberron.


What's the market value of a dragon scale ?
Depends on Dragon.


Most important, are humans actually crunchy, and do they taste good with ketchup to dragons? Inquiring minds want to know in order to assess whether or not to meddle in thair affairs. :smallcool:
Quoteing my source:

"Humans actually do taste good, However, Only mildly crunchy, But with a bit of Frying or Grilling, With a side of Ketchup, They make a most delightful Dinner, Espically between a Male and Female Dragon, Under Volcano light"
-Inferndyim.


What is an Inferndiym? :smallcool:

What dragons exist that have 8 Claws, 6 Heads, 4 Wings, has a breath weapon that deals all damage types in addition to divine damage, somehow is undead, fey, and dragon at the same time, is incorporeal and corporeal at the same time, and at some point can become effectively C+++++? :smallbiggrin: It is said to be a dragon godwyrm, though it has DvR 0, if it has any DvR at all. Any idea what it is. :smalltongue:

You probably wouldn't know, but i found one in a game i'm in and thought a dragon expert might know. :smallamused: :smallcool:

What type of dragon has the fastest fly speed? What about swim? Burrow? Run? etc.

Inferndyim is a Dragon of Godlike power.

None, Unique Dragon.....
Fly speed would be the Wing dragons, Black for Swim, Burrow would be Brown or Sand, And walking depends on Dragon



How did ShadowFireLance become a dragon expert? Did he memorize the 3.5 dragon books? Did he just pick up a lot of info about dragons over the years?

Been Studying Dragons me whole life, I love them.
(Also Memorized every known thing about them 3.5 Wise)


I need the oldest dragon thats still medium size and written down in one of the MM books and draconomicon. (Its for my druid and my DM only allows the monster manuals and core books)
hmm, Go with....Red Wyrmling, Powerful, But Still medium, or I think White..Young if you want size wise.

[rweird]

Inferndyim is a Dragon of Godlike power.

None, Unique Dragon.....

Okay, thanks anyways. :smallbiggrin:


Fly speed would be the Wing dragons, Black for Swim, Burrow would be Brown or Sand, And walking depends on Dragon

What do you mean depends on dragon?

[ShadowFireLance]

Okay, thanks anyways. :smallbiggrin:



What do you mean depends on dragon?


Depends as in what age are we looking at, and What sources?
(Void and Temporeal come to mind)

[rweird]

Depends as in what age are we looking at, and What sources?
(Void and Temporeal come to mind)

Ah, i understand now. In WotC products?

[ShadowFireLance]

Ah, i understand now. In WotC products?

Hmm, Going to say....Gold.

[RFLS]

X Dragons view Non X Dragons as not...How to say this...On their level of intellegence.

Can I get a source for this? I don't recall it being discussed one way or another in any of the sources I read for Xorvintaal (I ran a campaign where the Game was a major plot point).

[ShadowFireLance]

Can I get a source for this? I don't recall it being discussed one way or another in any of the sources I read for Xorvintaal (I ran a campaign where the Game was a major plot point).

no actual source, That comes from knowing Dragons, And knowing the game.

[nedz]

What's the market value of a dragon scale ?
Depends on Dragon.

The cheapest ?
Oh, and a RAW source would be handy :smallsmile:

[RFLS]

no actual source, That comes from knowing Dragons, And knowing the game.

So...you're making stuff up.

[ShadowFireLance]

So...you're making stuff up.

If you put it that way, Then yes, Yes I am.
If you put it into actual terms, Then I am making a Experienced Guess.

[GnomeGninjas]

If you put it that way, Then yes, Yes I am.
If you put it into actual terms, Then I am making a Experienced Guess.

Based off what experience?

[ShadowFireLance]

Based off what experience?

Mine, From Dragon Experiance, Like I said, I have 15+ Years Studying everything there is to know about Dragons.:smallcool:

[afroakuma]

See, I don't know how that translates into being able to help with any dragon questions I might have, though. I don't know what "dragon experiance" is, or what whatever you've studied covers, since you're not talking about sources.

Good luck with your thread and all, but I'm going to keep my own counsel on the subject.

[ShadowFireLance]

See, I don't know how that translates into being able to help with any dragon questions I might have, though. I don't know what "dragon experiance" is, or what whatever you've studied covers, since you're not talking about sources.

Good luck with your thread and all, but I'm going to keep my own counsel on the subject.

Dragons from every source.
(Mythology, Gaming, Books, Etc)

[GnomeGninjas]

Dragons from every source.
(Mythology, Gaming, Books, Etc)

Isn't this about dragons in D&D 3.5 and not "Dragons from every source"?

[ShadowFireLance]

Isn't this about dragons in D&D 3.5 and not "Dragons from every source"?

If their is not a actual awnser from 3.5 now, I will tell you...:smallfrown: Just trying to help...

[GnomeGninjas]

If their is not a actual awnser from 3.5 now, I will tell you...:smallfrown: Just trying to help...

Okay, that makes sense. When you give an answer you should say whether you have a 3.5 source or a non-Dnd source.

[ShadowFireLance]

Okay, that makes sense. When you give an answer you should say whether you have a 3.5 source or a non-Dnd source.

Okay, Going to add that to the OP.

[willpell]

As a preamble to a question I have, please don't be insulted that I had to ask, but are you familiar with Council of Wyrms? (I am not, although it sounds like it would be right up my alley if I knew pre-3E rules.)

[Invader]

To be fair, you were wrong about the dominant color of mated dragons, spelled "Xorvintaal" incorrectly, and gave pretty much all personal opinions to the questions asked so far... :smallamused:

Caught in the grip of ignorance, self proclaimed experts consider themselves learned authorities. Befooled, they wander about this world engaging in arguments and counterarguments, like the blind leading the blind.

[awa]

good old council of wyrms i actually have the books gathering dust in my room.

I remember feeling it was very unbalanced (you rolled for dragon type and golds were just the best in every way)

i also recall feeling the premade adventures with one exception weren't very good becuase they tended to force you into dungeon crawls where you didn't actual get to use your dragon stuff.

despite that i loved that setting

[willpell]

I remember feeling it was very unbalanced (you rolled for dragon type and golds were just the best in every way)

Rolling is painful there I'll agree, but golds being absurdly better than all other dragons has been true since the 1E monster manual, so CoW doesn't get any blame for that. The ECL system has since come along as a way of arbitrating such issues, although most of the interesting dragons work out to more than ECL 20, and we don't know exactly how much more because they stopped listing LAs past that point.

(Still waiting on Shady's answer before I proceed to my actual question.)

[ShadowFireLance]

As a preamble to a question I have, please don't be insulted that I had to ask, but are you familiar with Council of Wyrms? (I am not, although it sounds like it would be right up my alley if I knew pre-3E rules.)

Somewhat, I have it, But Never really looked at it in detail.

And yeah, You can spell stuff wrong, But I still got the domnaint color right.

[GnomeGninjas]

Somewhat, I have it, But Never really looked at it in detail.

And yeah, You can spell stuff wrong, But I still got the domnaint color right.

Do you have a source for where you got the dominant color thing?

[willpell]

Okay, here's my question. Open up the PHB2 and take a look at the Affiliations chapter. Do you think there is any chance that Dragon Island could be a stealthy homage to the Io's Blood Isles?

[awa]

I felt i could handle this one while i cant say for sure i doubt it.

Council of wyrms was chromatic crystal and metallic. Dragon isles is one or the other

Dragon isles is human only. council hates humans (and even with the demi-humans they do allow it's no partnership dragons are in charge)

the dragon isle appears to be much smaller in scale and much more unified. Their are lots of dragon kingdoms in the council.

[ShadowFireLance]

Offical/Esque Reply, This is pathfinde, and by where I put this thread, D20.:smalltongue:

Rise of the Runelords #4
Cross-breeding among metallics, the female line dominates.

Cross-breeding among chromatics, the male line dominates.

Cross-breeding between metallics and chromatics result in horrendous abominations.


Willpill:
Yes, I do, That seems like it would be.

[Kuulvheysoon]

No, They are FaureanFaerûnian Dragons, Not Chromatic.

Fly speed would be the Wing dragons, Black for Swim, Burrow would be Brown or Sand, And walking depends on Dragon


Ummm.. I'm not sure if you knew this, but Wing Dragons are not official D&D monsters. For official (true) dragons, I believe that the top speed of any published dragon is 250ft at the Great Wyrm stage.

Gold and Bronze dragons tie the Black for speed, but I believe Oceanus and/or Styx dragons have a higher swim speed.

[Larkas]

Ummm.. I'm not sure if you knew this, but Wing Dragons are not official D&D monsters. For official (true) dragons, I believe that the top speed of any published dragon is 250ft at the Great Wyrm stage.

Gold and Bronze dragons tie the Black for speed, but I believe Oceanus and/or Styx dragons have a higher swim speed.

Hmmm, it's second party, but Dragon Compendium's update for Yellow Dragons brings the fastest true dragon I could find - 350 ft. at Wyrm and beyond. It's flight is (Su), however.


Caught in the grip of ignorance, self proclaimed experts consider themselves learned authorities. Befooled, they wander about this world engaging in arguments and counterarguments, like the blind leading the blind.

This reminded me of something. One of the wisest men to ever live on this planet once said:

– This man, on one hand, believes that he knows something, while not knowing [anything]. On the other hand, I – equally ignorant – do not believe [that I know anything].

Certainly, I think that the best course of action is always to have the humility to assume that you know nothing, and try to learn everything you can whenever you can. :smallsmile:

[GnomeGninjas]

Rise of the Runelords #4
Cross-breeding among metallics, the female line dominates.

Cross-breeding among chromatics, the male line dominates.

Cross-breeding between metallics and chromatics result in horrendous abominations.


Isn't Rise of the Runelords #4 3rd party?

[willpell]

Council of wyrms was chromatic crystal and metallic. Dragon isles is one or the other

I don't think the saying it could be one or the other was meant to be proscriptive, just giving examples.


Dragon isles is human only. council hates humans (and even with the demi-humans they do allow it's no partnership dragons are in charge)

That's a better point, however.


Certainly, I think that the best course of action is always to have the humility to assume that you know nothing, and try to learn everything you can whenever you can. :smallsmile:

Humility is overrated. Those who have actual merits deserve to bask in self-satisfaction and reconfirm their worth to the world, lest they succumb to despair and ennui, and possibly exit the world stage, depriving others of the benefit of their virtue. It is only when people rest on laurels they only claim to have earned that it becomes a problem. Arrogance and vanity should not be conflated with genuine pride; accomplishments should be celebrated, and honor given to those who unquestionably deserve it, without requiring them to display false modesty in order to avoid the envy and spite of those who demand that the world give others no more than they themselves are worth.

[Larkas]

Humility is overrated. Those who have actual merits deserve to bask in self-satisfaction and reconfirm their worth to the world, lest they succumb to despair and ennui, and possibly exit the world stage, depriving others of the benefit of their virtue. It is only when people rest on laurels they only claim to have earned that it becomes a problem. Arrogance and vanity should not be conflated with genuine pride; accomplishments should be celebrated, and honor given to those who unquestionably deserve it, without requiring them to display false modesty in order to avoid the envy and spite of those who demand that the world give others no more than they themselves are worth.

I think you missed the point. It isn't about humility in front of others, it is about humility in front of oneself. You don't have to show humility as much as feel humble when faced with something you don't yet comprehend.

I won't go out and say that I don't understand what you're saying - I am not Socrates, after all - but acting like one knows all there is to know about a (complex) subject is detrimental solely for oneself.

... Okay, let's not derail this. Aside from the original chromatic, metallic and crystalline dragons, were the other true dragons (song, fang, shadow, etc.) designed by some deity? Or did they just spring to life?

[willpell]

... Okay, let's not derail this.

Whoops.... Well, once I've typed, I seldom untype. Spoilered for the skipping convenience of those uninterested in my lectures and ramblings.


I think you missed the point. It isn't about humility in front of others, it is about humility in front of oneself. You don't have to show humility as much as feel humble when faced with something you don't yet comprehend.

I have felt that feeling perhaps a grand total of five times in my life that I'm aware of. When faced with something I don't understand, my impulse is always to understand it, at least until I get bored and/or forget about it. The only times I've been humbled is when something absolutely baffles and confounds me, without my having the ability to dismiss it (as idiocy, madness, "a girl thing", or some other category of "I am not required to make use of this"). I could list an example but I should refrain from derailing Shady's thread with what amounts to personal blogging (assuming what I've done already doesn't qualify).


but acting like one knows all there is to know about a (complex) subject is detrimental solely for oneself.

It is perfectly possible to learn everything that is worth knowing on a subject; a few years of dedicated study and you can devour, digest, and incorporate the sum total of collected information on a relatively narrow (but still involved) topic. Chess, for instance; you needn't study every game by all the famous players...so long as you understand the basic aspects of theory in sufficient detail, you can claim to know chess completely. (It doesn't gurantee that you'll always win of course, just that you'll always be able to categorize your opponent's moves as being/not being part of a documented strategy.) I do not know any subject quite that well, nor do I especially want to, as it would leave me with nothing more to learn and would bring me closer to the brink of ennui. But I also have a fierce aversion to never-ending, futile struggles (briefly debates changing avatar to a statue of Sisyphus), so I'm not likely to try very hard to learn a subject if I believe that more-or-less-complete comprehnsion will always elude me no matter how hard I try.

EDIT: This is my story and I'm sticking to it...the apparent digression is at least sort of on-topic, because it can be regarded as an object lesson in the sort of psychology that is to be expected of dragons (especially the more highfalutin' varieties such as golds, blues and reds). That said, I shall retire to my cave for now. :smallwink:

[Larkas]

I have felt that feeling perhaps a grand total of five times in my life that I'm aware of. When faced with something I don't understand, my impulse is always to understand it, at least until I get bored and/or forget about it. The only times I've been humbled is when something absolutely baffles and confounds me, without my having the ability to dismiss it (as idiocy, madness, "a girl thing", or some other category of "I am not required to make use of this"). I could list an example but I should refrain from derailing Shady's thread with what amounts to personal blogging (assuming what I've done already doesn't qualify).

But that IS the point. Only by admitting your ignorance can you hope to learn anything. This is true scientific behavior! :smallsmile:


It is perfectly possible to learn everything that is worth knowing on a subject; a few years of dedicated study and you can devour, digest, and incorporate the sum total of collected information on a relatively narrow (but still involved) topic. Chess, for instance; you needn't study every game by all the famous players...so long as you understand the basic aspects of theory in sufficient detail, you can claim to know chess completely. (It doesn't gurantee that you'll always win of course, just that you'll always be able to categorize your opponent's moves as being/not being part of a documented strategy.) I do not know any subject quite that well, nor do I especially want to, as it would leave me with nothing more to learn and would bring me closer to the brink of ennui. But I also have a fierce aversion to never-ending, futile struggles (briefly debates changing avatar to a statue of Sisyphus), so I'm not likely to try very hard to learn a subject if I believe that more-or-less-complete comprehnsion will always elude me no matter how hard I try.

And that is why I was talking about particularly complex things, such as quantum physics, human behavior and, eh, the perfect recipe for a Shepherd's Pie (i.e.: the PERFECT recipe, not one generally regarded as good). Chess is borderline complex: while it is conceivable to understand the game completely, very few people actually do. And sometimes, you know in one moment and forgot a few tidbits the next! Again, this is scientific behavior: you can always learn something, and will benefit much more from having an open mind to it. :smallsmile:

Bottomline, I think we agree in behavior, but not exactly in methods. It is best to always try to learn everything there is to learn about something (even if that is not feasible or even possible), and to do so you must be open to the experience! :smallwink:

And not to veer completely offtopic, I think that THAT is how particularly wise lawful dragons, like golds, silvers and steels, ultimately think! :smallbiggrin:

[willpell]

EDIT: This is my story and I'm sticking to it...the apparent digression is at least sort of on-topic, because it can be regarded as an object lesson in the sort of psychology that is to be expected of dragons (especially the more highfalutin' varieties such as golds, blues and reds). That said, I shall retire to my cave for now. :smallwink:


And not to veer completely offtopic, I think that THAT is how particularly wise lawful dragons, like golds, silvers and steels, ultimately think! :smallbiggrin:

I am now picturing a gold dragon arguing with himself. :smallbiggrin: