[Brainstorming] Arcanus Generalis?

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

Well, ladies and gentlemen, I'm tooling around with all my many, many notes for my own campaign setting, and among them are a vast number of notes on my irrational dislike for the currently extant magic system.

I briefly considered replacing magic entirely with psionics (oh how my players would howl) or replacing traditional magic-using classes with less well-known variants (some of the tome of magic stuff, for instance).

I was also tempted to take up Fax's Planar Adept, but in the end I couldn't quite see taking that on as my only arcanist class.

Because that's what I want, y'see; rather than a smattering of different and distinct magic-users so large it essentially invalidates the very idea of magic use (if not magic items) being special at all, I want a single and singular magic-using class capable of taking different paths.

The same way The Force works, basically; differing ways of using the same talent. Being as magic is The Art, The Talent....I want one general "Arcanist" class that can manipulate the way it utilizes The Talent to duplicate (in some degree) the functionality of a cleric/wizard/druid/sorceror/shadowcaster/etc./ad nauseum.

How to do this, however? I pondered for a while and then thought back to both the way magic was handled in Iron Kingdoms (single class, creates own spells from components) and the rules for creating epic spells (which I rather like in some ways, cheese aside). So, here's my brainstorm:

The Arcanist

The Arcanist (provisional name) creates their own spells 'from scratch'.
An Arcanist relies on any one mental abilty score of his choice to power his spells and determine the highest level of spell he can create and cast.
In order to do so, they utilize 'seeds' similar to those used in creating epic spells, and assess mitigating factors in, again, a similar fashion.
Spellcasting in the default, 'wizardesque' pathway is dependant on spellcraft checks. Alternatively (and likely through a feat) the Arcanist can utilize his/her caster level to make the check, or some third method.
An Arcanist can either create a large number of relatively simple spells, or a smaller number of more complex spells, to form his 'spell list'.
An Arcanist, by default, has access to only a few generally available spell seeds. In order to gain access to other, more potent seeds, he is required to give up the usage of an equal and opposite seed. For instance, an Arcanist who wants access to the 'heal' or 'repair' seed must give up access to the 'harm' or 'shatter' seed. A creative player can still manage to have both healing and harming magic (for instance, by utilizing a different seed, for instance 'motion', to create a harmful spell) but they are forced to take an indirect route to gain such, and benefit more from specializing in one branch of the magical tree.
An Arcanist prepares spells but does not utilize a spellbook; instead, he determines at the beggining of the day the kind and extent of power he chooses to summon up from his own spirit. In functional terms, he is a prepatory spellcaster.
An Arcanist is, however, capable of spontaneous casting; in order to do so, he must choose to permanently affix a certain seed to his essence, permanently losing a spell slot in the process. After doing so, he can cast spells he has created that utilize that seed spontaneously (as a cleric casts cure or inflict spells), but only up to the level of the spell slot he sacrificed to gain this ability. Spontaneously casting a spell requires sacrificing a prepared spell of equal level (the spell slot to which the seed is bound can also be used in place of a prepared spell, if it is of equal level to the spell being cast).


Okay, that's my ideas. Now, I need from you people...

Commentary on their feasability and balance as written.
Ideas for seeds and mitigating factors ranging from high to low level.
Any thoughts on the details of the spell creation process.
Thoughts on how numerous and how powerful the initial 'general' seeds should be, and how one might go about dividing up the remaining 'second-tier' seeds.
Anything else you want to make me aware of or lambaste me about.


Okay, folks. Fire away, please. All guns. If ye like.

[AmberVael]

The Arcanist (provisional name) creates their own spells 'from scratch'.
I can see this being very very cool, but alos with the potential to be unbalanced... be very careful.


Spellcasting in the default, 'wizardesque' pathway is dependant on spellcraft checks. Alternatively (and likely through a feat) the Arcanist can utilize his/her caster level to make the check, or some third method.
I think this would be a very good thing to add into a new magic system. Magic always working seemed rather odd to me.


An Arcanist can either create a large number of relatively simple spells, or a smaller number of more complex spells, to form his 'spell list'.
Sounds reasonable. I wonder why the word 'Hadoken' comes to mind? :wink:


An Arcanist, by default, has access to only a few generally available spell seeds. In order to gain access to other, more potent seeds, he is required to give up the usage of an equal and opposite seed. For instance, an Arcanist who wants access to the 'heal' or 'repair' seed must give up access to the 'harm' or 'shatter' seed. A creative player can still manage to have both healing and harming magic (for instance, by utilizing a different seed, for instance 'motion', to create a harmful spell) but they are forced to take an indirect route to gain such, and benefit more from specializing in one branch of the magical tree.
Erm. I agree with the whole 'giving up another seed of equal value,' but I think one should have a greater realm of choice than just giving up an opposite seed. I think it should be closer to the options of prohibited schools which we have already in place.


An Arcanist prepares spells but does not utilize a spellbook; instead, he determines at the beggining of the day the kind and extent of power he chooses to summon up from his own spirit. In functional terms, he is a prepatory spellcaster.
So... he chooses generally what he can do, but not specifically? It sounds interesting, though I must admit spontaneous casting has always made me happiest.


An Arcanist is, however, capable of spontaneous casting; in order to do so, he must choose to permanently affix a certain seed to his essence, permanently losing a spell slot in the process. After doing so, he can cast spells he has created that utilize that seed spontaneously (as a cleric casts cure or inflict spells), but only up to the level of the spell slot he sacrificed to gain this ability. Spontaneously casting a spell requires sacrificing a prepared spell of equal level (the spell slot to which the seed is bound can also be used in place of a prepared spell, if it is of equal level to the spell being cast).
Hm. I'm not sure I like this idea so much, but it may just be me.


All in all, I like the ideas that you are coming up with. I'd be willing to help you make this system if only for my own use. I've long despised the magic system in place.

[Ian.of.Donald]

One idea for setting a standardized method for calculating the extant of each spell could be a factor on your actual Arcanist level.

Say you are a 5th level arcanist and have access only to Moderate and High level spells and the seeds of Fire and gravy (I dunno, I'm hungry). You memorize gravy at Moderate and can cast a flavorful side dish at caster level 1/2 arcanist level many times per day. You memorize Fire at high and can fry up Displacer Beast steaks at full caster level only a couple times per day.

I dunno, a thought.

[Triaxx]

An Arcanist is, however, capable of spontaneous casting; in order to do so, he must choose to permanently affix a certain seed to his essence, permanently losing a spell slot in the process. After doing so, he can cast spells he has created that utilize that seed spontaneously (as a cleric casts cure or inflict spells), but only up to the level of the spell slot he sacrificed to gain this ability. Spontaneously casting a spell requires sacrificing a prepared spell of equal level (the spell slot to which the seed is bound can also be used in place of a prepared spell, if it is of equal level to the spell being cast).

Instead of this why not:

Arcanists are able to spontaneously cast, in a way similar to Clerics. By binding a seed to a spell slot of a specific level, losing the spell slot as long as the seed is bound, they may transmute any other spell of that level to a spell of that level of the element of the seed.

So with a Fire Seed bound to a level 2 slot, Shock, could be transmuted to Heat Wave, or Streaming Flame.

A seed may be unbound, but the caster must make a DC 10 Will save, or take 1d6 damage of the same element as the seed.

[Fizban]

See the D20 SRD, linked in my sig, and follow the trail to variant classes, general classes, spellcaster. Bam. Won't get rid of the vancian system, but baisically gets rid of all the old annoying limits so you can start goofing off.

Oh, and there was a very imperfect spontaneous spell creator class in a malhavoc splatbook Chaos Magic. Was more like the warlock, but with limits and would probly become an unusable NPC after the first few levels.

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

Responding in reverse order, with my revised thoughts at the end:

Fizban, I wasn't so much trying to escape the restrictions placed on classes as attempting to encourage creativity and individuality in the use of spells, as well as tweak the flavor of magic in general toward a more monolithic, 'special' feel. I do like the generalist, but...eh. Not that much.
Haven't seen Chaos Magic, and generally don't go third-party anyways, so I wouldn't know about that last.

Triaxx, I'm not sure if I fully understand you; that sounds a lot like what I thought I was saying originally, though your version appears to be assuming an element-based system? Not sure, again, if I'm getting it. Enlighten me?

Ian, I am almost tempted to actually create the seed of gravy now. But not quite.

Vael, I have some revised ideas about customizable spells, so I'm going to hold off on that (as well as the hadoken comment XD ).

As to the spellcraft thing, that stays, I rather think.
With the preperation method, he does specifically choose what he can do (in that version of the idea) but doesn't need a book to do so (thus no ink costs, no whatever about copying from spellbooks or something- he knows things or he doesn't).

I'm ditching the spontaneous thing (for now, and in part).

Anyways, new ideas! Again! Which supercede the old ones! I know, I suck.
I decided to take the aspects I wanted to use:

Customizable/upgradable spells.
A branching system of abilities with an inherent 'balance' between elements, but no rigidly defined role immanent in it.
No wizards, no druids, no clerics, no sorcerors, no bards, no paladins, no rangers, no warlocks, no warmages, no wu jen, no shugenja, no shamans, no nothing with spells as they are.


And I'm taking these aspects and giving them each (sort of) their own class.
First:
Heartbound Arcanist
These casters infuse the whole of their spirit with arcane energies, transforming their souls into functional manifestations of a single aspect of arcane power. Heartbound Arcanists enjoy the unparalleled to tailor the effect of their manifestation, at the expense of a great degree of flexibility. A Heartbound Arcanist who wishes to master more than one variety of magical power must 'start over' as if they were taking levels in an entirely new class.
Heartbound Arcanists fall into the following eight categories:
Heartbound of the Soulshield; these Arcanists summon the power of their spirit to protect themselves and their allies from harm, magical or mundane; their defensive prowess is unmatched. The manifestation of a Heartbound of the Soulshield generally takes the form of a massive, empty suit of armor or swirling wall of shields around or near the character.
Heartbound of the Soulforged; those who summon the power of their soul to create life (or its appearence) or call up and shape the forces of being take on the mantle of the Heartbound of the Soulforged. Generally speaking, the manifestation of such an Arcanist resembles a creature of the same type as the Arcanist, formed of glimmering astral material.
Heartbound of the Soulgaze; capable of parting the veils of time and distance with the potency of their otherworldly will, a Heartbound of the Soulgaze can uncover almost anything hidden or clandestine. Such an Arcanist's manifestation usually resembles nothing so much as a ring or rings of slowly orbiting eyes.
Heartbound of the Soulchain; with an uncanny knack for interpersonal relations, with or without bringing their abilities into play, Heartbound of the Soulchain influence the behavior of others in ways subtle and blatant alike. Their manifestations tend to be miasmic in character, subtle shimmers and glints of multi-hued mist surrounding the Arcanist, notable only in that they ignore the winds of the material world.
Heartbound of the Soulforce; reveling in destruction and the forces of nature, these Arcanists manipulate elemental energies to devastating effect. The manifestation of a Soulforce Heartbound usually takes the form of one or more hovering globes of energy, or sometimes enormous energy 'gauntlets' that hover around or near the Arcanist's hands.
Heartbound of the Soulveil; calling up phantasms from their own imagination to ensnare and decieve the senses, these mysterious Arcanists at first don't appear to even possess manifestations; an astute observer, however, will note that they possess two entirely seperate shadows, one of which moves quite independantly of the Arcanist his/her self.
Heartbound of the Soulmourn; unusual among Heartbound for their internalized manifestations, those who follow and use the power of the Soulmourn embrace the fact of mortality with fatalism and respectful awe. Close inspection of their features reveals a grave-pale nimbus of shadow, and when they utilize their powers they occasionally seem to sprout jags of bone or additional, shadowy limbs.
Heartbound of the Soultide; acolytes of magical change both personal and epic in scale, these Arcanists are somewhat feared for their highly noticable manifestation, a roiling, veining mass of energy that dogs their every step as if they had taken an earthquake into themselves.

These are all provisional titles, but I think it gets across the idea: each Heartbound Arcanist has one, and only one, 'spell', which they can extensively customize within the limits imposed by their level; to give an example that should be familiar, a Heartbound of the Soulforged can essentially make frequent use of an upgradable, customizable, extremely potent Astral Construct formed of his/her own personal magical energy- their "manifestation". To explain what might be less familiar, a Heartbound of the Soultide who wanted to, say, petrify an enemy would focus their will into shaping the magical energy of their manifestation to the desired end (via a spellcraft check, more than likely), and in the end would send a tendril of that energy snaking out along the ground. The precise same process would be used by the same Soultide Heartbound to attempt to transmogrify an ally (by investing his flesh with a portion of their manifestation's mallefying energy) or to reverse the earlier petrification.
The Heartbound Arcanist essentially chooses which effect he wishes to utilize his manifestation for from a menu of such effects, up to the limits of his ability to shape that power; each effect consumes an amount of his personal will in accord with its power level (similar to the way power points work).

I hope that's clear.
I'll be posting something on my other ideas, the Runebound Arcanist, the Spherebound Arcanist, and the Foebound Arcanist, in a little while. Chew on this in the meantime? Really. With teeth.

[Enoxice]

Personally, I don't use magic much (mostly because I rather dislike the current magic system), but I like your revised ideas very much (MST3k reference, anyone? sorry).
The current magic system makes magic seem too mundane and systematic, and I like how your (as of yet unfinished) system makes it a work of "heart and soul" (as signified by your names :P).

I don't have anything to add right now, but I'm sure I'll come up with stuff as I think about it. (I just needed one more set of parentheses. thanks.)

[Triaxx]

Sure, let me grab my demonstration aid. Not you Gorg.

This is Eddie, the Arcanist 10/Cleric 10. As a neutral good Cleric, he can transmute his spells into Cure (Blank) Wounds. To do something similar to his normal magic, he binds a Fire Seed to his second level spells, and an Ice Seed to his fourth level spells.

Now, should he expend all his fire spells, he can transmute a second level spell, into a fire spell of the same level. Or with ice, he can transmute a fourth level spell into an ice spell of that level.

I can see cantrips working a bit differently. Binding a seed to it, would create a special spell of that level. So a fire seed would create a blast of fire elemental energy to work with. You could turn it into a burning weapon in your hands, or light something on fire.

Or it could be used to enhance weapons. So you'd bind say an ice seed to your cantrips, and then beable to transmute the energy to an enchancement for your weapon. Lasting for say 1d6, or 2d8 rounds, depending on circumstances. Say in a Volcano, it'd be 1d6 rounds, but outside it would be 2d8. It wouldn't require an enchanted, or even masterwork quality weapon to function on either.

[Enoxice]

Triaxx,
Maybe it's just me (as I said, I don't use magic very often), but it doesn't seem very intuative.
I mean, I like the enhance weapon idea, but the crazy element-based spell and transmuation examples just seem a little counter-intuative and only serves to make magic more confusing (again IMO, as someone who doesn't use magic).

Or maybe I'm still just not understanding you.

[Triaxx]

Simply put, it's having a specific element of a specific level, available for every single spell slot.

On the other hand, having 'School Seeds', would make for an entirely different caster. In my mind, it's like having a Sorceror, but more specifically versatile. A single 'school seed' is bound at level 1, and they have that school only. However, they automatically have access to the full repretoire of that school for each level.

An Arcanist Evoker, has the Evocation seed, and gets Magic Missile, Chromatic Orb... Anything that's an Evocation spell. He has a specific number of slots, but can cast any spell he knows of that level.

An Evoker would destroy his opponents with a massive barrage of offensive spells. An Abjurer would have a nigh impentrable defense.

The trade off, is they'd have no spells from other schools.

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

In no particular order this time;
Triaxx, that's an interesting idea, and I think I get what you were saying earlier now. The idea of single-school Arcanists is what the Heartbound is supposed to provide the vehicle for, actually, so after a fashion, you're in.

Enoxice, thanks for the kind words. Flavor-wise, that's pretty much what I was going for; a spellcaster for whom magic was a force as personal and as profoundly influential as a lover, or a beloved pet.

In fact, the Heartbound Arcanist (as far as I'm planning), progresses within their particular field (i.e. soulforged or soulmourn) by learning new 'forms' for their manifestations and new 'commands' to shape those forms- thus, they essentially treat shaping their manifestation as similar to training an animalistic creature.

[Triaxx]

Very interesting. My favorite character is a Full Elven Sorceror, so magic is my favorite way to bring death and destruction. He even has his own compendium.