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Thames
2013-01-06, 06:27 AM
Hi Guys,

I was going to start campaign for a small group soon and I wanted all classes to have a their level added to their defenses/saves like SW/saga does.

I also want to make BAB full progression for everyone - the logic being that a Level is a big thing - two people the same class but one of them one level higher should be better at everything than the other assuming the same build - and that BAB saves and whatnot be basic things as opposed to the more impressive Class features.

The obvious problem here is how do I keep fighters challenging - I don't view that I need to improve the fighters a negative sign of the original change because they were underpowered already anyway.

(I'm going to read Tome of Battle or whatever its called - but this is to us PF rules ... more or less)
The Caveat is I don't want Goku-like characters - high fantasy martial arts the like you see in movies is fine and probably expected at higher levels but not to goku's degree (I mean that's godlike)

I was thinking of giving all characters a KI type progression and Spellcasting Progression - but going a martial character would advance spellcasting but a fractional amount and KI a full amount and a spellcaster would do the reverse.

Yora
2013-01-06, 06:41 AM
Have you considered having everyone using Gestalt rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm)?
Basically you have two classes and get the better value from either class and all the special class features of both. This seems to be quite close to what you have in mind as the end result and it's a system that has been tested quite a lot of times and most people seem to be quite happy with how it works out.

Thames
2013-01-06, 08:03 AM
Considered and played - it did not bring up the style I want ... but possibly if i mandated what classes gestalted with which? Spellcasters must gestalt with fighter sorta thing ... thinking ...

Also that wouldn't account for adding your level to defense ... although I suppose thats easy enough to account for.

KillianHawkeye
2013-01-06, 09:32 AM
Tome of Battle has basically nothing anywhere near the scale of Dragonball Z. You have nothing to worry about.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-01-06, 11:17 AM
Saves pretty much OK-- your base save is somewhere between 1/3 and 2/3 level, while spell DCs are about 1/2 level.

AC... I recommend adding either 2/3 your BAB or the next lowest progression (So fighters add cleric BAB, clerics add wizard BAB, and wizards don't get anything). Adding your full BAB would flatten the math somewhat, so that you effectively don't get any better at hitting things. (Also, it makes armor really good).

You'll be fine with ToB-- there's nothing too extreme, and 3.5 to pathfinder is an easy enough conversion.

I don't think that increasing everyone's BAB and saves to full is the right approach, though. You're removing a lot of distinction between the classes, and it gets silly when your bookish warrior can fight as well as a fighter. Well-designed classes, at least, get enough new toys at every level that levelling up feels important anyway.

The last point... I dunno, you're approaching serious system revisions on that one.

SowZ
2013-01-07, 09:55 PM
Hi Guys,

I was going to start campaign for a small group soon and I wanted all classes to have a their level added to their defenses/saves like SW/saga does.

I also want to make BAB full progression for everyone - the logic being that a Level is a big thing - two people the same class but one of them one level higher should be better at everything than the other assuming the same build - and that BAB saves and whatnot be basic things as opposed to the more impressive Class features.

The obvious problem here is how do I keep fighters challenging - I don't view that I need to improve the fighters a negative sign of the original change because they were underpowered already anyway.

(I'm going to read Tome of Battle or whatever its called - but this is to us PF rules ... more or less)
The Caveat is I don't want Goku-like characters - high fantasy martial arts the like you see in movies is fine and probably expected at higher levels but not to goku's degree (I mean that's godlike)

I was thinking of giving all characters a KI type progression and Spellcasting Progression - but going a martial character would advance spellcasting but a fractional amount and KI a full amount and a spellcaster would do the reverse.

If you really want a high powered game where everyone gets spellcasting and everyone has full BAB, the only real option I can think of that can retain balance/some simplicity is to just do gestalt and say one class must be full BAB and one must have spellcasting of some kind. This will still not be Goku level.

Defense bonus/save bonus should be simple enough to do. Just don't give a +1 to all saves/AC every level. That will get absurd quickly. Instead, a way to increase the power gap between levels I'd suggest giving +1 to defenses ,(AC and saves,) every fourth level and give feats at every odd level.

And instead of a stat increase every fourth level, maybe every other level give a stat bonus but you have to alternate physical stat, mental stat. Giving a bonus to all these things every level would only work in a game with fewer levels and messes with the balance between different classes to much. I worked on something once to increase the gap between levels and decrease the number of levels before, but it doesn't sound like what you are looking for.