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AttilaTheGeek
2013-01-06, 08:57 PM
I'm normally a Pathfinder player (*points to sig*), but I've been meaning to try out DMing. One of my friends, who's quickly becoming obsessed with 4th edition, recently bought the bestiary box, handed me the dungeon crawl packet, and got everyone else to roll characters before I knew what was going on. The dungeon is called Cairn of the Winter King, but I don't know anything about 4th edition and I tentatively agreed to DM the dungeon in a week or so. Can the playground give me a speed runthrough of the system's basics?

Tegu8788
2013-01-07, 12:38 AM
At it's simplest, you roll a d20 and add numbers to it to try and beat other numbers to do stuff...


But I suspect you want a bit more than that.


Do you know anything about the current system?

Mando Knight
2013-01-07, 01:20 AM
Basics for going from Pathfinder to 4e:

1.) Check terms before you assume an in-game effect. Some of these were changed.

2.) Saving throws are different now. Fort/Ref/Will are now static defenses that are rolled against, saving throws are for shrugging off effects enemies inflict on you (or, rarely, you inflict on yourself).

3.) Circles are squares. All diagonal movement is worth 1 square.

4.) No, you cannot dual wield to attack twice a turn unless you have a power that says otherwise. Most classes interested in dual wielding have such a power available at most levels.

5.) Monsters are not PCs and are not built as such, nor should they be.

NecroRebel
2013-01-07, 01:39 AM
As Tegu says, most of the mechanics are simply d20+mods. If you're playing a module, which it sounds like you are, most of the DM-side numbers will already be calculated, too, which makes things easier for you. Just keep a cheat sheet with all of the standard conditions on them available so you know what all of them do (they're on PHB1 p.277, though many have had errata), and you shouldn't need too much.

Anyway, basic DM-side rules:
1. Each creature, PC and monster, gets 3 actions per round:
---1 Standard, used primarily for attacking
---1 Move, used primarily for movement
---1 Minor, used for miscellaneous things (basic monsters usually don't use them).
Standard actions may be used to take move actions, and move actions may be used to take minor actions.

2. There are also 2 types of off-turn actions, neither of which may be used during a creature's own turn:
---Opportunity Actions, which are mostly used for opportunity attacks. Each creature may take one opportunity action for each other creature's turn. That is, if Player 1 takes an action that provokes an opportunity attack on their turn from Monster A, taking this attack does not prevent A from making an opportunity attack on Player 2 during 2's turn should such a thing be provoked.
------Opportunity attacks are provoked by using a Ranged attack or an Area attack, or by leaving a threatened square by moving (not by forced movement, shifting, or teleporting).
---Immediate Actions, which are used only with various powers and can have many effects. These are further subdivided into 2 types, immediate interrupts, which happen before whatever triggered them, and immediate reactions, which happen after their trigger has completely resolved.

3. There are several types of movement:
---Moving, the most basic type, has no special effects. Leaving a square adjacent to an enemy (or, rarely, further away; "threatening reach" exists, but very few creatures have it, even very big ones) with this form of movement provokes opportunity attacks.
---Shifting, the second most common type, is essentially the same, except it does not provoke opportunity attacks. Every creature may use a move action to shift 1 tile. Think of shifting as akin to 3.x's 5-ft steps, except that many powers will allow the user to shift multiple tiles.
---Teleporting, a relatively-rare form of movement, is basically just what you'd expect, allowing the user to skip over interfering terrain and go through enemy tiles. It also does not provoke opportunity attacks.
---Forced Movement, which is never done willingly and never provokes opportunity attacks, is subdivided into 3 types:
------A Push causes the victim to move, but each tile of forced movement must take it further away from the source of the push. It doesn't always have to be in the same direction, though; if you had a large enough push, you could make an enemy go outwards in a spiral.
------A Pull is the opposite of a push; each tile of forced movement has to bring the target closer to the source of the pull.
------A Slide has no limitations on the direction of the forced movement; backwards, forwards, sideways, whatever the user wants.

4. There are 4 types of attacks:
---Melee attacks are always single-target, though powers that cause melee attacks may have additional effects that affect other creatures, and typically can target only things adjacent to the user. Melee attacks do not provoke opportunity attacks.
---Ranged attacks are always single-target, though powers that cause ranged attacks may have additional effects that affect other creatures. Ranged attacks provoke opportunity attacks.
---Close attacks are further divided into 2 subtypes. A close attack will never provoke opportunity attacks, and will never hit the user even if they're within the area of effect. The 2 subtypes are:
------Close bursts, which always have a given radius, and that radius is always centered on the user.
------Close blasts, which affect a square that is adjacent to, but does not include, the user. The size of the square varies depending on the particular power, for instance a close blast 3 will affect a 3x3 square, while a close blast 5 will affect a 5x5 square.
---Area attacks provoke opportunity attacks, and may hit the user if they happen to be caught within the area of effect. Virtually all area attacks are area bursts; they affect a given radius from a particular tile, and the chosen tile must be within a particular range determined by the power that is causing the area attack.

5. There are 4 general types of powers:
---At-will powers may be used whenever the creature has an action of the appropriate type available, without limit.
---Encounter powers are usually expended when used, but may be recharged with a 5-minute rest. All PCs, though not monsters, have Second Wind as an encounter power, which allows them to spend a healing surge to regain some hit points (1/4 of their maximum, rounded down) and get +2 to their defenses until the end of their next turn. Some monsters have abilities that cause one or more of their encounter powers to recharge under certain circumstances; dragons in particular get their breath weapon attack back when they are first reduced to 50% or fewer hit points.
---Daily powers are usually expended when used, and are not recharged until a 6-hour rest. Few monsters have these (the assumption is that they'll die during any encounter with the PCs, so there's no practical difference between monster daily and encounter powers).
---Recharge powers are similar to encounter powers, except at the start of the creature's turn, they roll 1d6, and if the die roll matches one of the numbers in the power's text, it is regained. Only monsters have these powers.




...That should let you run combat reasonably well. I'm sure there's things I missed, but that's the most important stuff I think.

Akodo Makama
2013-01-07, 03:12 AM
New things:

Marks: This allows defending type classes to draw aggro. if a creature is marked, they have a -2 to attack anything other than what marked them. there is also some other benefit (Fighter gets a free basic attack, paladin does direct damage, etc).

Healing Surges: These represent the daily reserves of toughness, luck, vitality, etc to a character. Using one restores 1/4 of their HP. This means HP is now the 'this encounter' level of health, luck, vitality, etc. Some PCs should be low on HP nearly every battle, but then use surges in down time to heal back up again. healer classes (Cleric, Warlord, et al) most often allow someone to use these as a minor action, adding a benefit (eg +2d6 extra HP). Potions also use a surge to heal. So the current number of surges is quite important to front line troops, determining when resting is needed.

Minions: A new creature 'type'. Rather than having level 1 mooks trying to stop level 10 PCs, you have level 10 minions fill the role. Minions only have 1 HP, and their damage is static, much less rolling for the GM. When they get hit, just remove them: No need to track which mook had the 2 pts of damage, which had 6, etc. Their attack bonuses are in line with the same level creatures, so their not just worthless obstacles for the PCs to avoid. Makes mass battles much easier to run.

Bloodied: This is when the effects of battle are taking a visible toll on the creature (or PC) It occurs at 1/2 HP. Many advanced creatures have abilities that kick in when bloodied (some good, some bad). the PCs should know when an enemy is bloodied.

Save Ends: Many effects have a duration of "Save Ends". At the end of the creature's or PC's turn, it rolls a d20 for each such effect. If the roll is 10 or better, the effect ends.

The module is pretty linear, with a lot of fighting, and a little puzzle solving. If you've GM'd before, the descriptions in the module should carry you through. Definitely read it through completely before playing it, though, so you have time to ask (us) about anything confusing.

Hal
2013-01-07, 08:40 AM
Be sure to look over the list of skills before you play and get a feel for what they can do. There is a lot less "non-combat" magic now, but quite a bit of that utility falls under the purview of skills. The skill list is significantly shorter than it was in 3.5 D&D (I don't know about Pathfinder, though).

Silma
2013-01-08, 09:41 AM
Also, non-combat magic has now been included in what's called "rituals". Wizards, Druids, Celrics and BArds have access to rituals, although other classes can pick the "ritual caster" feat if they meet the requirements. BAsically rituals are long-casting time spells, that can have various effects for in or out of combat (mainlt out of combat though). The difference from 3.5 or pathfinder is that rituals now cost gp in the form of "components". For example a level 1 ritual can allow a character to purify water, silence a small area, etc, where a high level ritual might work like the teleport spell.

AttilaTheGeek
2013-01-08, 04:10 PM
Also, non-combat magic has now been included in what's called "rituals"...

But, mechanically, they're just spells with long cast times and expensive material components?

NecroRebel
2013-01-08, 04:53 PM
But, mechanically, they're just spells with long cast times and expensive material components?

Sort of, but not really. A noncombat spell in 3.x will typically cause its effect automatically, so they're largely just an autowin as far as bypassing an obstacle goes. Rituals virtually all have a skill check involved that determines how effective the ritual is. The ritualist's skill check can be boosted by up to 5 other participants, none of which need the Ritual Caster feat or training in the relevant skill, using the Aid Another action (DC10 skill check on their part for a +2 bonus to the main caster).

Rituals didn't actually inherit much of anything from 3.x spells, instead being something practically new that serves the same intended purpose as spells, namely allowing groups without the skill or nonmagical resources to overcome an obstacle to bypass it.

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-01-08, 04:58 PM
Honestly, they made things way easier for the players. On the plus side, this means you should be able to swap Orcus in for any of the Solos in that adventure.

Yup.

<very covertly nods>

:smalltongue:

Kurald Galain
2013-01-08, 05:22 PM
Aid Another action (DC10 skill check on their part for a +2 bonus

That got errata'ed, actually. The check is now something level-dependent with a decent chance of failure, that gives a -1 penalty to the target if you fail.

AttilaTheGeek
2013-01-08, 05:47 PM
Sort of, but not really. A noncombat spell in 3.x will typically cause its effect automatically, so they're largely just an autowin as far as bypassing an obstacle goes. Rituals virtually all have a skill check involved that determines how effective the ritual is.

Are they boolean (DC X or you fail), or more staggered (Succeed on DC X, even better on X+5, barely work on X-5, etc)?

allonym
2013-01-08, 06:16 PM
Generally they don't involve failure at all. In many cases a skill check is not used in the ritual - you always succeed if you know the ritual. Where a skill check is useful, you tend to get a base effect no matter what you roll, then improved effects if you hit certain DCs (Tenser's Floating Disk, for example, can hold 250 pounds if you get 9 or lower on the check, with increased allowance if you get various higher DCs).

For some rituals, your roll is used directly (With Hold Portal, for instance, your arcana check determines the DC for someone else to break through the door by whatever means).