[PF] How to Support a New DM?

[Screech-*Lime*]

I'm currently playing a Pathfinder game with some friends of mine in Michigan (I'm a face on a screen over Skype, everyone else is IRL). We're all pretty noobish, and I want advice on how I can help support our DM to help him improve his DMing skills. He's creative, but I think he has some trouble handling all of the stuff a DM has to do and combining it with interesting RP scenerios as well as keeping combat organized and balanced.

(We're all high school seniors except for the DM's brother, and thus have to balance sessions with those schedules)

Our group:

Me, playing Dr. Hans Metzger, a Human Alchemist (Vivisectionist) [CN]
The DM's friend, a bit of a power gamer, playing an Android Ranger [TN]
And the DM's younger brother (I think he's a Freshman), playing a Teifling Paladin [LG]

The DM's brother isn't always playing; he tends to get bored easily, which complicates encounter-building for the DM.

As you may have noticed, I don't actually know my fellow players' character names, which I think may be a sign that we're not doing a very good job at the "RP" part of an "RPG."

So I was wondering how to help my friend maintain a good gaming atmosphere for everyone involved and hopefully keep his brother interested (I don't really enjoy playing with just 2 people, although my stealth-based Alchemist and the Ranger have gotten into some very fun Red Dawn-style stuff when the Paladin "phases out of existence").

Thanks for the help!

[Raven777]

> During play, keep discussion centered around the game to foster immersion and keep interest up.
> Limit the screwing with RAW for builds and schemes between minimum to none at all.
> Accept plot hooks and campaign rails unless you have a very rational reason not to.
> Know your class and your abilities well enough that the DM does not have to know them for you.
> This also means being ready to roll what needs to be rolled and not slowing down the game to check rules every time you cast a spell.
> Do not attempt to kill or screw over other party members or helpful NPCs unless the plot demands so.

One of the players could also offer to take over DMing for a week or two to run a side quest or a dungeon crawl in which the former DM plays a character only around for that specific quest. That way, the former DM gets a break from session prep.

[Alefiend]

Find some actual-play podcasts to listen to. This might not be useful for supporting the game in progress, but it will provide a sense of what goes into successful encounters and RP moments.

[SgtCarnage92]

A lot of what has slowed me down is a lot of the book-keeping a GM has to do during a session, tracking monster HP, initiative, knowing what else is around the corner, making sure names of NPCs are right, making sure they don't flub up reading stats, having to look up rules that weren't anticipated...all of these can really slow down a session and make things difficult.

Offer to take notes of places, names and whatnot, and have someone else track initiative.

Know what your character can do and any special rules regarding special abilities/spells/ect. This helps a lot to keep the game moving. Page references are helpful as well just in case your GM wants to check it himself. If you have any questions about how something is worded talk to your GM before the session.

Make sure your character isn't disruptive to party harmony. Sorting through player arguments is frustrating and brings everything to a screeching halt. Don't steal from another character just because you're a rouge and that's what he'd do...

Be proactive in the game. Don't just react to what's going on, try to make something happen in the world. This is a great way to keep everyone interested and lets your GM flex his creative muscles (don't do anything too off the wall here or you might flummox him). Let your GM know it's okay for him to wing it now and again (I enjoy being surprised by my players and winging certain parts of sessions has been more fun than anything i had planned).

Thank your GM, make sure they feel appreciated.

Communicate with your GM about what you really liked, what you didn't like. What you would like to see more of/less of.

Make sure you make your character's actions clear and if you have any questions about what's going on don't be afraid to ask. This makes sure everyone is on the same page and you don't have to halt the game because someone didn't understand what was going on.

Try to keep yourselves on task as much as possible without the GM having to babysit you. There is nothing quite as frustrating to a GM having to stop a game to quell a conversation going on that's disrupting play.

Make sure your GM has scheduled regular breaks. A quick five minute break every couple hours is a lifesaver.

Let your GM make calls and don't argue. I have had many sessions grind to a halt because a player doesn't like a call I made. The GMs ruling stands, look up the actual rule after play and remember for the future.

Don't get angry at the GM if something bad happens to your character (this is assuming your GM isn't intentionally trying to kill you). Getting frustrated at the situation is fine and good. Don't call out your GM directly (unless it's obvious he's out to get you).

Switch venues (if possible) a change of scenery can really be helpful. In your circumstance it isn't entirely possible, but offers to bring food and drinks so the GM doesn't have to is always appreciated.

I'm sure there's more, but this is a good starting list.

[AttilaTheGeek]

Since it's taking place over the internet, make sure the DM has Excel, or some other spreadsheet program. I've only had very, very limited DM experience, but running a combat where I need to keep track of 14 initiatives and 8 HPs, plus the players', is nearly impossible without being able to tab in and out of excel.

Keep the SRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/home) open at all times. It's another great tool.

I'd recommend using a google docs spreadsheet to keep track of your square grids.

[Chained Birds]

Keep track of all loot drops yourself so you know what everyone has on them and who is in need of an item more than someone else. This is an optional suggestion, though helpful when it comes time to sell your junk. This also helps your DM so he/she knows everyone's current WBL.

[Screech-*Lime*]

Thanks for the advice guys! I'm hoping I can help this go smoothly.

The DM's brother tends to deliberately try to derail the plot. I don't dislike him, but he gets bored easily and has a history of making characters Lawful Stupid specifically to inconvenience the party.

This time, I decided to make an alchemist with a focus on Undead, sneaky stuff, and an "obsession with unlocking secrets of immortality." He (after I came up with my concept) decided to play a Paladin of a death god with a hatred for Undead and people who try to cheat death (I think Pharasma, too lazy to confirm). I don't want to make him feel unwelcome or anything, but is there any way to deal with that sort of behavior without having to scrap my concept?

[SirAxealot]

... but is there any way to deal with that sort of behavior without having to scrap my concept?

You're a vivisectionist, right?

Put two and two together.

[Raven777]

Carry on without listening to him. He's a paladin, not your mother. Make efforts to only do the sneaky and undead stuff against foes worse than yourself. Be an asset more than a liability for the group. Help root out other necromancers and undeads as often as possible. Make him understand that you are fighting fire with fire. DO NOT STICK A DAGGER IN HIS RIBS. Be the bigger man.

[Screech-*Lime*]

Make efforts to only do the sneaky and undead stuff against foes worse than yourself. Be an asset more than a liability for the group. Help root out other necromancers and undeads as often as possible. Make him understand that you are fighting fire with fire.

I've tried that argument with him. "I don't care if you're the lesser of two evils, I'll put a sword through both of you."

[SgtCarnage92]

This is exactly the kind of stuff that really frustrates me as a GM. I'm all good for some mild conflict in the party. Actually your situation could create some really fun RP moments as the pali slowly comes to understand that you're actually a benefit to the party and that while you may not be capital "G" good like he is, you're still worth allowing to live for the time being.

To actually address the problem instead of just waxing on how it could be. Don't worry about letting him play. Of course it's up to your GM, but your GM also has the benefit of being the lawful stupid guys brother and theoretically would have more influence. Talk to your GM about the problem and see if he is willing to step in. As much as it comes across as tattling, it shows you respect the GM as the game-maker and you let him exercise his authority, also the criticism will be coming from somebody the problem player presumably respects. At the end of the day it's up to the GM to determine who plays and who doesn't.

If your GM doesn't step in, consider whether you're willing to change your character to continue playing. I hate this option because your character concept is awesome. However, if you're dead set on playing with this group and the GM is adamant about keeping his brother at the table this may be your only option.

[Raven777]

This is what irks me about these situations. A player's character is not a mysterious sentient force outside the player's control. The character's whole outlook and behavior is something the player behind it decides at all times. And when a character is threatening other party members instead of fostering cooperation, that's its player looking for trouble.

He really should be talked to, whether by the other players or by the GM, with emphasis put on roleplaying his character in such a way that it doesn't impede on other players also roleplaying theirs the way they enjoy.

Which can be done through perfectly reasonable arguments :

Even if the character is a Paladin of Pharasma, he's not an ordinary Paladin of Pharasma. He's an adventurin' Paladin of Pharasma. And adventurin' Paladins understand the need to team up with unlikely allies. Adventurin' Paladins understand that you have each other's backs in life or death situations. Adventurin' Paladins put the team forward. Stronger through their ragtag bunch of a team, adventurin' Paladins kick ass for their God.

[Screech-*Lime*]

I don't think he's going to let up, so I'm going to have to use my plan B, which involves doing a lot of stuff behind the party's back. Does anyone have suggestions on how to discreetly send information to the DM (I'm thinking keeping certain "experiments" quiet, perhaps using any of a number of spells that a Vivisectionist can gain access to to give the illusion that I'm not doing anything suspicious)

I don't intend to turn this guy into a pincushion, but if it comes to that, I need to have as many tricks up my sleeve as possible.

We're only 4th level right now, and some of my planned discoveries and feats don't come until about 10th, and most things that the paladin would object to also come in around that time. So has anyone ever been in a situation where a lot of their actions needed to be discrete?

[Alefiend]

I don't think he's going to let up, so I'm going to have to use my plan B, which involves doing a lot of stuff behind the party's back. Does anyone have suggestions on how to discreetly send information to the DM?

This is one of those times where it's not rude to text message during the game. It will be especially effective if the GM often gets messages from other sources.

[Screech-*Lime*]

This is one of those times where it's not rude to text message during the game. It will be especially effective if the GM often gets messages from other sources.

I'm not entirely convinced he has a cell phone. He doesn't have that much of a social life that I'm aware of.

He usually uses a laptop, and I'm hoping I can use some messaging service besides Skype (or else these "private" messages will appear under my face on the screen that everyone sees).

[mcv]

Have you and he concidered why your characters like hanging out together? If he wants to kill you, he's not a party member, he's an opponent. Or you are. Who does the ranger consider the party member and the opponent in that case?

[Screech-*Lime*]

Have you and he concidered why your characters like hanging out together? If he wants to kill you, he's not a party member, he's an opponent. Or you are. Who does the ranger consider the party member and the opponent in that case?

That would be me, most likely. We tend to work well together both being stealth-based, and he being True Neutral doesn't have much to say about morality.


Find some actual-play podcasts to listen to.

Do you know of any good ones?

[Alefiend]

Do you know of any good ones?

That's probably going to depend on what you think the new GM's style will be like. You may need to listen to a few before you find what's best for your group.

To get you started, I found this one for Kingmaker (http://strandgamers.com/podcasts/kingmaker/), another for several adventure paths (http://stcgamers.libsyn.com/), and of course RPGPodcasts.com (http://rpgpodcasts.com/).

[Screech-*Lime*]

Thanks for the links. I'll give a couple of these a listen and see what ought to be emulated.