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Karoht
2013-01-07, 04:20 PM
Want to be the best Deus Ex Machina your DM has ever seen?
On demand Arcane and even Divine spell casting.

Requirements:
Half-Elf, or Human with Half-Elf racial heritage feat. Talk to your DM and see which is right for you. You'll see why this is necessary later.

Build A

Sorcerer 9/Pathfinder Savant 3/Cypher Mage 8
You lose a level of of casting with Pathfinder Savant, but all scrolls ever used by you take your level instead of the minimum caster level. Cypher Mage allows you, as a swift action, to add double your casting stat.
Pathfinder Savant also gives you bonuses to Knowledge Arcana, Spellcraft, and UMD, also allowing you to take 10 on those checks. Highly valuable in combat.


Build B

Sorcerer 9/Cypher Mage 10/???
You don't lose a level of casting progression, and even have a level to spare for something else. You will cap on Cypher Mage, meaning that you can use one of your abilities as a Free Action rather than as a Swift.


Recommended Bloodline
Arcane Bloodline with the Sage Archetype. Intellect for Sorcerer casting doesn't sound that amazing at first, but it works well with Cypher Mage, and the extra skill points are very helpful. Knowledges are intellect based as well, as is Spellcraft.

Key Details
Paragon Surge-This spell confers a bonus to Dexterity and Intelligence. But that isn't what we're after here. In addition, it also grants you access to any feat you would normally qualify for. Now this has a variety of uses, but most noteably, you can use Extended Arcana. EA gives you 1 spell known at your highest spell level, or 2 spells known at any level lower than that. Which means as long as you know of a spell, you can bring it to mind at any time, add it to your list of spells known, and cast it as normal.
It is a 3rd level spell. My recommendation is to get a wand, as well as keep it on your spells known list. If it's on your list, you can use metamagic on it, which can prove handy. If it's a wand, you can expend the charges if needed. But ultimately, the wand can prove less useful, and there may be a better expenditure of 10K.

Razmiran Priest Archetype-This is a Sorcerer Archetype. Take it from level 1. You gain a bonus to UMD which is handy. At level 9, you gain Razmiran Channel. This allows you to use spell trigger and spell completion items which use Divine Spells, and keep the item or charge in the item, by subsituting your own, albeit at 1 level higher. Sadly it does not apply to Arcane Spells, but we will be fine without that, as you will soon see.

Cypher Mage/Pathfinder Savant-One way or another, you get to treat any scroll you have as though it's caster level is equal to your own. I am unsure if this stacks with the feat Cypher Scroll, but if it does it now works as 1 CL higher.


The Hook?
You buy a bunch of scrolls. Divine Scrolls. Stick them into a book. This is now effectively your Divine Spell Book. Bear in mind, Divine Scrolls also cover Arcane Spells cast as part of a Domain. Which opens up all kinds of spell casting options such as Druid, Inquisitor, Paladin, and Ranger Spells, in addition to Cleric Spells. The downside is, you don't have any extra spell slots to cast them from, and you effectively cast them one level higher. Cypher Mage gives you a bunch of free metamagic to play with using the scrolls, while Pathfinder Savant lets you use Razmiran Channel by taking 10.

Between Paragon Surge and Razmiran Channel, there isn't much that you can't cast on demand. You have remarkable versitility. There are some excellent spell combinations possible this way.

Examples:

Inquisitor
Wrath-Gain a +3 bonus to CL for purpose of bipassing spell resistance VS a single target, along with +3 to Attack Rolls. Shared Wrath grants this bonus VS a single target to any allies in the area.
Find Traps-Rogue Trapfinding
Silence-Surprisingly, not a Wiz/Sorc spell normally.
Banish Seeming-Dispel Magic for Illusions and Transmutations.
*Hunter's Eye* ignore concealment provided by fog or mist, blur, displacement, invisibility, and similar. Stand in a fog spell of your choice and continue hammering your enemies.

Druid
Dust Form-Quite useful for that squishy spell caster
Meld with Stone-Combo up with Project Image. May cause a DM to throw a book at you.
Spellstaff-Store any spell you can cast into your staff. Extra spell slot effectively. Great place to store a Quickened Paragon Surge.
Liveoak/Change Staff-Want a Treant pet following you for days per level?
Eagle Aerie-Want some Eagles following and scouting for you for hours/level?
Firestorm-Huge area Fireball.
Flamestrike-Fire and unresistable damage.
Fireseeds-No SR fire damage spell. Helpful in a pinch.

Cleric
Plane Shift-5th level slot for clerics, get a scroll, cast it as a 6th level slot. Normally a 7th level slot for Sorcerers.
Heal-Expensive and non-optimal, but handy to have around.

Paladin
The Litany line of spells. Not all of them are great, some can be handy, such as assist someone get out of a grapple, teleport someone out of a grapple, and a few other fun perks.
*Bestow Grace of Champion* Grant Paladin levels and class features to a Lawful Good Non-Paladin. IE-At minimum caster level to obtain the scroll, gives 4 levels of Paladin to the Cleric of the party. Cleric now has Charisma to Saves, Smite Evil (Charisma to AC VS Smite target, Charisma to Hit Smite Target, effective Paladin level to damage Smite Target), Lay on Hands, and a few additional Channels. I don't think you get the Paladin Mercies, but I could be reading that wrong. Summon a Lawful Good creature, cast Bestow Grace of Champion, watch the Summon go stomp all over something for you.

StreamOfTheSky
2013-01-07, 05:06 PM
It doesn't fully work until level 11, but Oracle is even better at abusing Paragon Surge. Aside from Expanded Arcana for spells off the cleric list, at level 11 he qualifies for Improved Eldritch Heritage (arcane bloodline). This requires you to have regular EH for the bloodline, but....you get a familiar for it, so you probably would've done that regardless of build anyway. :smallsmile:

So, with Imp. EH, you gain one or more spells known off the Sorc/Wiz spell list. Congratulations, you are now one round away from nearly any spell in the entire game!

Karoht
2013-01-07, 05:23 PM
That's pretty clever. So if I'm reading you right, the Oracle uses Paragon Surge to Extended Arcana: Divine Spell A and Divine Spell B, and can use Improved/Eldritch Heritage to get... access to a bloodline power? Sorry I don't follow how that grants one access to Arcane Casting exactly.

I'll copy/pasta it into this spoiler. I'm somehow not following what this is supposed to do exactly.
Imp. Eldritch Heritage
Prerequisites: Cha 15, Eldritch Heritage, character level 11th.
Benefit: You gain either the 3rd-level or the 9th-level power (your choice) of the bloodline you selected with the Eldritch Heritage feat. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.

Is there a specific Bloodline/Power one would have to take to complete the chain? Is that what I'm missing?

Vastly
2013-01-07, 05:40 PM
That's pretty clever. So if I'm reading you right, the Oracle uses Paragon Surge to Extended Arcana: Divine Spell A and Divine Spell B, and can use Improved/Eldritch Heritage to get... access to a bloodline power? Sorry I don't follow how that grants one access to Arcane Casting exactly.

I'll copy/pasta it into this spoiler. I'm somehow not following what this is supposed to do exactly.
Imp. Eldritch Heritage
Prerequisites: Cha 15, Eldritch Heritage, character level 11th.
Benefit: You gain either the 3rd-level or the 9th-level power (your choice) of the bloodline you selected with the Eldritch Heritage feat. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.

Is there a specific Bloodline/Power one would have to take to complete the chain? Is that what I'm missing?

The power you get from the Arcane bloodline at 9th lvl:

New Arcana (Ex): At 9th level, you can add any one spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list to your list of spells known. This spell must be of a level that you are capable of casting. You can also add one additional spell at 13th level and 17th level.


So as an Oracle, with Paragon surge, you can either take Expanded Arcana for any spell off your list (in this cast, any cleric/oracle divine spell) or take Improved Eldritch Heritage (Arcane Bloodline) for any spell off the wizard/sorcerer list. Effectively giving you access to pretty much any spell up to the highest level spell you can cast, all for the cost of a single 3rd level spell slot.

Crazy.

doko239
2013-01-07, 07:12 PM
Let's take the Oracle build a few steps further :smallbiggrin:

Take Tongues as your curse. Go for the Lore mystery and take the Focused Trance revelation, as well as a single point in all Knowledge skills. You can now take 1d6 rounds to effectively take 20 on all Knowledge skills. At third level, take Sidestep Secret and add your CHA to AC and reflex saves. At fifth level, take Automatic Writing; free Divinations are nothing to sneeze at. At 7th, take Mental Acuity for free Int bonuses.

So now, by 11th level, you have access to all Wizard and Cleric spells spontaneously, can auto-succeed at all Knowledge checks, understand all spoken languages, get a free Commune spell once per day without a material component, are extremely hard to hit, and can be the party face due to being CHA based and having so many free skill points. NOW you're the Swiss Army Knife :smallcool:

Edit: Also, invest in a Robe of Arcane Heritage, and whenever you cast Paragon Surge you get TWO spells out of Imp. Eldritch Heritage for the price of one!

StreamOfTheSky
2013-01-07, 07:24 PM
Vastly explained it well. You take EH for a familiar, but never actually take IEH as a permanent feat. Then you can use Paragon Surge on IEH or Expanded Arcana, depending on if you want a sorc/wiz spell or a cleric spell, for maximum versatility. All as a straight classed oracle w/o any curse or mystery requirements, nor loss of CL or expenditure of a lot of (bad) feats. And on a chasis that can cast in armor w/ better HD, BAB, and skill points than Sorc.


I don't actually suggest pulling this trick in most games. It's incredibly cheesy. I mostly use it as example A of how paizo actually buffed casters, not nerfed them.

Karoht
2013-01-09, 10:16 AM
Wow. That Oracle build is something else. Awesome.
But can it do Druid, Ranger, Paladin, and Inquisitor spells as the Swiss Army Sorcerer can?
And due to the Razmiran Channel ability, as long as you keep a collection of Divine Scrolls to hand, you can even bipass the action economy hit from Paragon Surge, so long as you have the scroll in question in your posession.

Also, can anyone suggest any fun Arcane/Divine spell combo's?

Is there any major use for the Smite Evil from Bestow Grace of Champion, that a Sorcerer could make use of?

Also, I did not note the spellcasting progression in the OP. Doing so here under spoiler cut.

Sorcerer/Wizard List: Standard Sorcerer progression, 9th level spells by 18 unless Pathfinder Savant is used.
Divine (All): 1 Spell Level below current Sorcerer progression.
IE-If the Sorcerer can cast 5th level Sorc/Wiz Spells, the Sorcerer can cast 4th level Divine Spells. However, once the Sorcerer has the Cypher Scroll feat (recommended upon hitting level 9 to synch up with Razmiran Channel) those spells are cast at +1 caster level from the minimum required for the scroll. Once the appropriate Cyphermage/Pathfinder Savant feature has been reached, they are cast at +1 caster level from the Sorcerer.

IE-
12 Sorc / 3 Cyphermage = CL 15
Casts Divine Spell at CL 16 (With use of class feature + Cypher Scroll)
12 Sorc / 3 Pathfinder Savant = CL 14(One level of spell casting is lost)
Casts Divine Spells at CL 15 (Class Feature + Cyper Scroll)

Vastly
2013-01-09, 10:34 AM
Wow. That Oracle build is something else. Awesome.
But can it do Druid, Ranger, Paladin, and Inquisitor spells as the Swiss Army Sorcerer can?

That one specifically is limited to the wizard/sorcerer and cleric/oracle lists. You'd have to find a feat or some such that allows you to add spells from any list (usually taking up a spell slot 1 step higher). But I don't know any off the top of my head, at least not that wouldn't require multiclassing/PrC's.

As for your other inquires, I'm not certain enough to give you any good ideas. :smallsmile: