Four Horseman

[Gizmo777]

Just curious for everyone out there, how would you go about creating / statting up the four horseman of the apocalypse?

1. Conquest
2. War
3. Famine
4. Death

[Edge of Dreams]

I don't know about the horsemen themsevles, but they should be riding Nightmares (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightmare.htm).

[sambouchah]

Death and famine may be wizards with spellsword levels. War could be a big scary fighter and I dunno what I'd do for conquest.

[nedz]

They're all Centaurs. :smallbiggrin:

[Waker]

Hmm, well some of the ideas came to me quicker than others.

Conquest
Warforged Crusader/Warforged Juggernaut. He just keeps fighting and fighting without end.

Strife
Bard/Evangelist using the Inspire Hatred acf. He rarely takes a direct hand in combat, preferring to stir up the masses and turn them on some unfortunate target.

Famine
Ex-Druid/Blighter. Had trouble thinking of this one. Will take a look at it later to improve it.

Death
Cleric/Bone Knight. Has access to some nice spells, can lead a horde of the dead and isn't bad at fighting to boot.

[Fable Wright]

War is a Frenzied Berserker.

Plague (I think he's one of the four Horsemen, and Conquest and War are so similar) would be a Blighter or Verminlord.

Famine... maybe something that drains constitution?

Death would be a Dread Necromancer or Master of Shrouds.

[Silva Stormrage]

I support war being a frenzied berserker

Plague would work well as a mother cyst specialist necromancer wizard

Famine would work as a cold based druid

Death would be best as either a necromancy based cleric or a dread necromancer


Also yes they need to all ride nightmares. Except for death which rides a skeleton or bone creature nightmare.

[Gizmo777]

"Due to the above passage (the most common translation into English), the white rider is referred to as Conquest[1] (not Pestilence, see below). The name could also be construed as "Victory," per the translation found in the Jerusalem Bible (the Greek words are derived from the verb νικάω, to conquer or vanquish). He carries a bow, and wears a victor's crown."

So the first rider is Conquest.
I like the ideas so far though guys! Keep it up!

[GreenSerpent]

Here's my suggestions.

Conquest:
A Daelkyr Half-Blood Sorceror or Bard, probably focused around Enchantment, using Charm and Dominate spells as necessary and keeping a scroll of Mindrape at hand. Why bother killing them to conquer them when you can subjugate their will?

Famine:
A Human Cleric (with Deformity (Obese)) with the Hunger and Gluttony domains, focusing on Dessication spells and effects. Has a cohort of Ghasts he's controlled with his Rebuke Undead - or who simply fear being eaten too much.

War:
A Beguiler of some sort, focused around social skills (Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate primarily) who uses poisoned words, fear, intimidation and trickery to sour relations between groups. Uses illusions and charms to show them what he wants them to think.

Death:
An Elan Necrocarnate, draining the soul out of those who he slays in order to power his own profane abilities. Alternatively, a young and vibrant Thief of Life who spends his time around people... all of whom seem to die, especially those about his level in power - and end up fuelling his life force.

[Phelix-Mu]

For a campaign that I was in we had some plot related stuff, but the most pertinent one I think is to start with a ragewalker core for War. This monster is quite formidable, an unusual creature type (avoiding things like banishment and such), and has some awesome abilities to build off of.

I think war eventually ended up being a half-dragon/half-elemental ragewalker with some kind of class levels. He wielded a hysterically oversized spiked chain.

For Famine, I had a strange dream about a kind of swarmshifter vampire-like creature that bites people, causing a form of domination and causes the wasting, a very contagious disease that eventually ends in the person disintegrating into a swarm of flies controlled by Famine. This is in addition to the standard "destroys food and poisons water within 100' radius." Awesome flavor, she ended up being more or less a unique being.

Granted, the characters were several levels into epic by the time they were running into these people, and they weren't really supposed to fight them (War ended up being like CR50 or something), they were there as plot npcs driving other, rather complicated interactions. I guess an appropriate power level depends on how you want to use them in your game, but with names like "horsemen of the apocalypse," I wanted them to be as formidable as non-gods could be.

[snoopy13a]

Here is a good picture of the four horsemen:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/Four_Horsemen_Notre_Dame.jpg


Outlined against a blue-gray October sky, the Four Horsemen rode again. In dramatic lore their names are Death, Destruction, Pestilence, and Famine. But those are aliases. Their real names are: Stuhldreher, Crowley, Miller and Layden. They formed the crest of the South Bend cyclone before which another fighting Army team was swept over the precipice at the Polo Grounds this afternoon as 55,000 spectators peered down upon the bewildering panorama spread out upon the green plain below.
-Grantland Rice

[Waker]

For Famine, I had a strange dream about a kind of swarmshifter vampire-like creature that bites people, causing a form of domination and causes the wasting, a very contagious disease that eventually ends in the person disintegrating into a swarm of flies controlled by Famine. This is in addition to the standard "destroys food and poisons water within 100' radius." Awesome flavor, she ended up being more or less a unique being.
This gives me an alternate idea for Famine.

Famine
Changeling Wildshape Ranger/Warshaper/Master of Flies. Using his abilities he calls and transforms into swarms of destructive vermin who descend on a populace's food supply.

[Phelix-Mu]

Here is a good picture of the four horsemen:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/Four_Horsemen_Notre_Dame.jpg


-Grantland Rice



Arch reference here. Extra points, I say, extra points. [And lets hope things go well in the game tonight.]


This gives me an alternate idea for Famine.

Famine
Changeling Wildshape Ranger/Warshaper/Master of Flies. Using his abilities he calls and transforms into swarms of destructive vermin who descend on a populace's food supply.

Yes, the flies thing is a great theme, and I also had the flies act as a vector for the disease, spreading it to anything that they damaged. The disease, though I didn't do a version with rules for how it worked, was basically just to make a person very hungry, but unable to find nourishment in food, and they basically started acting like a ghoul of some kind. Coming up with a mechanic for accelerated weight loss isn't easy, especially since the normal disease rules are terrible. Str and Con damage seemed pretty sensible, but a frequency of taking the damage was the main problem.

[Zale]

I honestly take the fact that some people are suggesting ones for Plague as a sign they failed to read the first post. :smalltongue:




Conquest
Warforged Crusader/Warforged Juggernaut. He just keeps fighting and fighting without end.

Strife
Bard/Evangelist using the Inspire Hatred acf. He rarely takes a direct hand in combat, preferring to stir up the masses and turn them on some unfortunate target.


I like that you characterized War/Strife in a similar as I conceptualized it.

War isn't something that fights.

It's something that's very presence has people butchering each other.

[Chilingsworth]

DEATH CANNOT BE STATTED

Don't forget to make War look like an atractive redheaded woman. :smallwink:

[Phelix-Mu]

I honestly take the fact that some people are suggesting ones for Plague as a sign they failed to read the first post. :smalltongue:


People suffering from Famine will subsequently get very ill and die. No contradiction there. The disease that spreads hunger and fly swarms is just a way to jazz up the normally quite slow and boring process of people starving to death, as well as actually destroying food and killing people.

[Zale]

People suffering from Famine will subsequently get very ill and die. No contradiction there. The disease that spreads hunger and fly swarms is just a way to jazz up the normally quite slow and boring process of people starving to death, as well as actually destroying food and killing people.

Both Plaque and Famine, though?

I understand combining the two.

[Phelix-Mu]

Agreed, if a person is using both a Plague and a Famine, that is silly, since MO for both will be pretty identical. Weaken people until they die horribly.

A co-DM I was playing with was a stickler for details, and since we were borrowing the 4 Horsemen from the real world, Conquest, War, Famine and Death was the list we used. Conquest was all about mind games, manipulation, and megalomania, War was about killing in combat, pure and simple, Famine was about spreading suffering and infirmity, and Death was about AoE death effects, momento mori, and death gaze attack, or, simply put, DEATH.

Not accurate according to our list of horsemen, but still...someone has to post this.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIY41LrvMFQ)

[Talionis]

In Highlander the Series: http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_%28Highlander%29

I think they aught to be built like a team that together is a lot stronger than they are separate.

1. Conquest

Makes me think of a buffer. Bard/Warblade/Crusader would be an option maybe into Ruby Knight Vindicator. Many suggest since RKV can also take White Raven Maneuvers it should also count towards White Raven Song. But get even more Buff spells from Cleric, possibly also include Ordained Champion. Make sure Conquests buffs can affect Undead (See Below).

Diplomacy also could be important for this member of the Four Horsemen since he could persuade a whole army to join their cause, better to be a leader in Hell than a slave... can't remember the quote.

Conquest should also probably be a decent off damage tank.

2. War

This should be your Brute. Probably a tactical brute, but he should be able to tank for this team of four. Knight might really be a good option. Look at some of the Lockdown builds. Because while he should do impressive damage himself his primary purpose is to take punishment away from the other members and more importantly Famine & Death's minions.

Also possibly Barbarian for Rage. I'm not big on Barbarians is there an aura they can use that allows others around them to be enraged? Making it harder for non-fighters to fight? That might be almost as good as Anti-Magic Field.

3. Famine

This should be your Debuffer, but also Scout.

Look for lots of different ways to use poison. Look for ways to reduce others saves. Look for ways to weaken saves. Look for ways to reduce Abilities like Strength and Constitution.

Strangely this might also be the sneakiest of the four. So this one might be the one that goes in first and spies and does things to weaken enemies before the Four engage an actual fight. Ways to give this character Swarm characteristics so that it is hard to destroy and innocuous looking.

I also agree that Swarms with debuffing in mind would be a great way to go. Swarms might also give you some additional minions to be buffed by Conquest.

4. Death

I think this should be a caster/Necromancer. Death should be the most powerful/most magical. Mystic Thuerge comes to mind simply to get massive amounts of spells and spells of both Divine and Arcane nature.

This should give you the Horde of undead lead into fights by War and buffed by Conquest. He should not only have the undead minions, but also should have the Save or Suck spells. This is the character all the others should protect because Death should also be able to bring back any of the other three Horsemen should they die in battle.

Teamwork between them should be a must and I think the secret to beating them would be finding ways to separate them from each other.

[LTwerewolf]

Some versions have Conquest, some versions have Pestilence, not both. I typically go toward the Pestilence route since like someone said war and conquest are almost the same thing.

Just make sure they show up in order.

Pestilence I'd think would be a necromancer, either dread or true.

War would be a frenzied berserker.

Famine would be a blighter druid.

Death would be a necromancy cleric.

[Zale]

Some versions have Conquest, some versions have Pestilence, not both. I typically go toward the Pestilence route since like someone said war and conquest are almost the same thing.


So are Pestilence and Famine.

Or close enough.

I always saw Conquest as an outside force that came in and Conquered. The foreign king who enslaved a nation, etc..

War is just fighting. Rage. People at each other's throats.

The product of Conquest is an empire.
The product of War is simply ruin.

[Psyren]

Both Plaque and Famine, though?

I understand combining the two.

I would rather combine War+Conquest than Pestilence+Famine myself. Maybe it's from my Hexen II days but I prefer the Famine, Pestilence, War, Death horsemen even if it's not biblically accurate.

For Famine I would go with some kind of life drain build, like Soul Eater/Lifedrinker or an evil Leech Psion build. Pestilence would definitely be a Vermin Lord, maybe with Blighter levels. War would be a martial class of some kind, and Death would be necromancy based.


So are Pestilence and Famine.

Or close enough.

I disagree, Pestilence implies minions (perhaps even many minions) while Famine implies that you are draining energy/sustenance yourself.

[LTwerewolf]

Conquest comes about through War. Famine and Pestilence may result in the same thing, but stem from two very different places.

Think of it this way:

Conquest- kill em dead til we win.
War- kill em dead
Famine- remove their ability to replenish themselves
Pestilence- plagues and diseases that may not even necessarily kill, but mutate or horrifically maim and mutilate the victims


Pestilence is the one with the most interesting options.

[Talionis]

Pestilence/Conquest

I'd focus on the mechanics.

Pestilence and Famine would both be debuffers. They would do it in slightly different ways. Pestilence makes me think of waves of insects and viruses. Famine makes me think of crops dying. Crops can die because insects eat them. So mechanically they can be very similar. But do you need two debuffers?

Conquest is very military oriented. So is War. They two could be very similar. But War seems like the messy dirty sweaty actual fighting and conquest seems more like planning and strategy. D&D is all about fighting. Most of the mechanics work in this area and there are a lot of different ways to work at this. I think in D&D you have more ways to distinguish these two than Famine and Pestilence. Conquest might be a Bard who buffers the minions. Conquest might also be Diplomancer that persuades whole armies to fight along side the Four Horsemen. Having a Buffer on the Four Horsemen team makes more sense to me.

[LTwerewolf]

Famine can be a debuffer and Pestilence can easily be damage over time. Poisons, diseases that do con damage, etc. Not necessarily the same thing. It's easier to get more variation out of magic than it is physical stuff. Kill em dead is still kill em dead.

[AWiz_Abroad]

The distinction is the Biblical vs. standard Fantasy trope

Rev 6:1-8 Has Conquest, War, Famine and Death

The substitution of Pestilence is apparently an unknown thing that came online before 1916

Thank you Wikipedia

I agree with much of the build suggestions that have come up before. I'd be interested in how GITPers would stat up Kaos (Terry Pratchett's 5th Horseman)

Also, Pollution, who according to Gaiman/Pratchett, took over in 1936 when Pestilence left "muttering something about Penicillin." (Good Omens)

[Elderand]

What, everyone forgot about the fifth ?
You know, the guy who left the group over artistic disagreement and now deliver dairy products ?

[Talionis]

Famine can be a debuffer and Pestilence can easily be damage over time. Poisons, diseases that do con damage, etc. Not necessarily the same thing. It's easier to get more variation out of magic than it is physical stuff. Kill em dead is still kill em dead.

I think the Pure Warrior and the Bard are two very different things. Both maybe able to fight physically, but one is a master of fighting, the other is a master of making people better at fighting.

You might be very right that one more magical character might be more powerful. Magic is always more powerful. But if you make Conquest a Diplomancer wow... I mean Diplomancers are some of the most powerful things in the game.

[Zubrowka74]

Death can also be see as Time, a temporal themed caster could be used. Time domain cleric or some arcanne class based around Haste, Slow, Timestop etc...

[AWiz_Abroad]

Terry Pratchett's Death could be a Wizard/Planeshifter prestige class(not taken to the capstone), the ability to have a timeless demi-plane from a Genesis style base (Epic Spell?), and a at will plane shift screams this character to me. Now, if we could get permanency of some kind of invisibility (superior invis?), we're most of the way there. Omnipresence is a challenge. Any suggestions?

Persistent Phantom Steed for the flying, speedy phantom horse.

[AWiz_Abroad]

Death can also be see as Time, a temporal themed caster could be used. Time domain cleric or some arcanne class based around Haste, Slow, Timestop etc...

Brief aside, any homebrew for a class like this would be fantastic. I might try to take a shot at it if no one's ever done a Temporal caster before.

[Mato]

Jacky Chan (aka War)
Warforged Warmage 6 / Warmage (the PrC) 5 / War Wizard of Cormyr 1 / Warweaver 5 / Warblade 1 / Warshaper 2.
Feats (2 flaws): Combat Casting, Eschew Materials, Enlarge Spell, Extend Spell, Iron Will, Reserves of Strength, Imperious Command, Weapon Focus(any), Leadership, Residual Metamagic.

It can grant it's charisma bonus as AC to three creatures, create one heck of party buff, nuke the crap out of stuff, and even wade into melee utilizing White Raven party bonuses. Plus I mean, come on. Anyone can say Bard! or Psionics is broken. This thing makes a man out of you (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SLJJc8siyU).

[vasharanpaladin]

They're functionally deities. No stats.

[Mato]

They're functionally deities. No stats.Hi Welcome.

In this fancy smacy Dungeons & Dragons game even gods had stat blocks. You can find the Divine Rules section in the very public System Reference Document provided by Wizards of the Coast. The original rules printing and stat sheets for the various deities can be found in Deities and Demigods which was first published ten years ago.

[Chilingsworth]

The distinction is the Biblical vs. standard Fantasy trope

Rev 6:1-8 Has Conquest, War, Famine and Death

The substitution of Pestilence is apparently an unknown thing that came online before 1916

Thank you Wikipedia

I agree with much of the build suggestions that have come up before. I'd be interested in how GITPers would stat up Kaos (Terry Pratchett's 5th Horseman)

Also, Pollution, who according to Gaiman/Pratchett, took over in 1936 when Pestilence left "muttering something about Penicillin." (Good Omens)

Kaos? Well, he would have to ride a chaos dragon, for a start. Other than that, maybe a wild mage wizard? Or an Anarchic Initiate Psion? (Or a gestalt of both?)

[vasharanpaladin]

Hi Welcome.

In this fancy smacy Dungeons & Dragons game even gods had stat blocks. You can find the Divine Rules section in the very public System Reference Document provided by Wizards of the Coast. The original rules printing and stat sheets for the various deities can be found in Deities and Demigods which was first published ten years ago.

Deities and Demigods never happened. There's a reason these four include "Apocalypse" in their shared job description, and that reason is "if it shows up, everything dies forever." If any stats are had, they are "No," "Yes," and "Take a new character sheet."

[Talionis]

Deities and Demigods never happened. There's a reason these four include "Apocalypse" in their shared job description, and that reason is "if it shows up, everything dies forever." If any stats are had, they are "No," "Yes," and "Take a new character sheet."

Isn't this what is supposed to eventually happen...

The Horsemen are the Harbingers of the Apocalypse, so there is some time where they are existence and the PC's would be in existence. Everything maybe a foregone conclusion, but everyone may have fun riding that last ride to see how the world ends.

[Psyren]

Deities and Demigods never happened. There's a reason these four include "Apocalypse" in their shared job description, and that reason is "if it shows up, everything dies forever." If any stats are had, they are "No," "Yes," and "Take a new character sheet."

Nah, I circle-strafed them to pixelly death in Hexen :smalltongue:

[artofregicide]

I'm kind of surprised that no one seems to have mentioned the Pathfinder Archdaemon Four Horsemen. Obviously, they're not what you're going for, but it might at least be interesting to look into them.

All the ideas stated so far are pretty awesome, but I give the idea of the Four Horsemen instead of being individuals, engines/forces of destruction.

Something akin to Epic-Level elementals, sort of without any motiviation beyond their nature.

War could be a massive army of construct soldiers, golems, and siege machines, ceaselessy fighting and forging more of themselves out of the wreckage they cause.

Plague could be a... supernatural epidemic functioning like the undead ieases, spreading its filth across the lands, hordes of the infected marching to find more victims.

Famine could a massive, endlessly hungry beast like a Tassasque, which simply eats everything. Crops, animals, people: all devoured in it's ever vain pursuit for satiation.

Death could faceless army of the powerful Dead (basically undead), reapers of mortal souls, who kill everything they touch.

Sure, it's not original, but that's my suggestion. Also, these could function is minions/assets of your riders. Of course, this is all epic level.

The positive and negative both of the Four Horsemen is they're... a bit cliche. It makes them... recognizable, but harder to make unique.

That's my 2 cp.

[Cambrian]

Some versions have Conquest, some versions have Pestilence, not both. I typically go toward the Pestilence route since like someone said war and conquest are almost the same thing.
Offtopic: In Good Omens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Omens) (Pratchett and Gaiman) Pestilence retired with the discovery of anti-biotics (it's set in modern times). He was replaced with a new horseman: Pollution.

War - anything with huge martial abilities, probably multiple arms. Heavily armored and lots of bleed abilities. Definitely martial classes and buffs his allies similar to bardic performance (commanding his army).

Famine - Instead of gluttonous I'd make him gaunt. Uses enfeeblement effects and a strength/con drain aura. Probably necromancer/druid focused.

Pestilence - Gross pustules and sores; perhaps bloated like nurgle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurgle#The_Chaos_Gods). Uses swarms (aura) and of course diseases. Druid/Cleric would work here as would things like the cancermage (BoVD)

Death - Skeletal figure. Focus on Death effects instead of undead. Should use a scythe (Vorpal, keen, and/or brilliant energy?). Necromancer with enfeeblement abilities and/or energy drain. Perhaps Rogue/Assassin and a crit focus?

My initial thoughts at least.

[nyarlathotep]

I would rather combine War+Conquest than Pestilence+Famine myself. Maybe it's from my Hexen II days but I prefer the Famine, Pestilence, War, Death horsemen even if it's not biblically accurate.

For Famine I would go with some kind of life drain build, like Soul Eater/Lifedrinker or an evil Leech Psion build. Pestilence would definitely be a Vermin Lord, maybe with Blighter levels. War would be a martial class of some kind, and Death would be necromancy based.



I disagree, Pestilence implies minions (perhaps even many minions) while Famine implies that you are draining energy/sustenance yourself.

Even if pestilence is not included as a specific horseman disease is supposed to be present in their works. As they were given power " to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."

Personally when I have utilized the horsemen it is less about what each absolutely uses to kill, though their abilities are still themed, but what they do to the world as a whole. First you have Conquest who destroys nations and international alliances through his on empire's expansion, the realm of kings and high priests. Then War destroys communities and local areas which wonton destruction and pillaging, the domain of knights and local administrators. Famine splits apart even households and families as children are sold so their parents might eat and even the most pious of churches must turn away the starving. Finally death takes the life of individuals as every other bound and organization has been taken from them.

Statwise I usually run them something like this
All are outsiders the equivalent of the strongest demon lords with a suite of immunities and constant spells much like such creatures get in pathfinder.
Conquest- A Bard or Crusader, less interested in directly killing men and more concerned with getting them to abandon past allegiances to serve him and then use them against old masters, in particular he should attempt to take down any unifying religious organization the nations of the world might have. Conquest should rarely engage in actual direct combat and his plans for societal collapse should already be in motion by the time the campaign starts, unless you plan on having the players thwart him before any of the other horsemen show up.
War- Conquest's actions leave hundreds destitute and without nation or cause to their name so War comes through and stirs this angered population into an army of his own. This army is stirred to madness by him and runs around destroying and pillaging as they please. He is a frenzied berserker whose inspire frenzy ability has no range limit for purposes of effecting members of his horde, and can be used on enemies at its normal range if they fail their will save. Additionally when he is in an area all wildlife becomes enraged and begins to attack both humanoids and eachother, this effect extends for several miles and is permanent even if he leaves the area, player character animal companions and familiars get a save against it and can be cure normally due to their connection to their masters' but other animals are incurable.
Famine- Is a traveling doctor who offers to help those in need, but in truth he only cures their symptoms and makes them latent carriers not only for the disease they originally wanted treatment for but also a host of new plagues. The land around him appears to grow more vibrant and the field's bounty's are increased while he is in a location but shortly after he leaves all plants fall dead and the no new seed will produce growth. Statwise he is an alchemist specializing in plaguebomb and with several cancer mage abilities thrown in even if he does not directly have level in the class.
Death- He comes to only the most resilient whom have managed to whether his brothers' storms to give them their final hero's death. He is a warlock with free abilities from the soul eater prestige class, whose version of hideous blow allows him to simply attack eldritch blast to his full attack rather than only a single attack. Additionally as Hell is said to follow with him he signals the final end of the world by opening portals to the lower planes across the material.

[Zubrowka74]

... wonton destruction and pillaging ...

You there! Leave my dumplings alone!

Such a delicious typo! I'm hungry now...

[Vaz]

Death; Make a Grim Fandango. I remember seeing a Build along the lines of 10HD/Character Level of control Undead, this can only get more obscene at Epic Levels, particularly when they're likely to get some form of Leadership due to who they are, and can create a lot of similar.

@Zubrowka74, you're making me thirsty for you! Zubrowka that is; double, lemonade, slice of orange = amazing.

[mirror]

idk about their specific stats...but ofc, make them ride dragons for the epicness. At least thats what I did :D I even made them chromatic half-dragons :)

[Vaz]

Death, Riding a Time Dragon Polymorphed into a "Pale Horse".