Planar Binding Neutral Creatures?

[Chilingsworth]

Hi Playground,

So, this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266908) thread got made me want to enslave a ravid to abuse its animate objects ability. Unfortunately, since it's True Neutral, none of the usual magic circle diagrams would work to contain it. Am I right about this? If so, is there another way for me to contain it for planar binding, or do I have to wait until I can dominate it? (At which point, it's kind of a waste of time, isn't it?)

[Acanous]

I believe the guidelines for summoning elementals said to create a room where there is little to none of it's element, and surround it with it's opposed element. So making a cage of some kind should work (Forcecage?) so long as you can restrict it's movement abilities. (Weirdstone?) Of course, without a circle, it can attack you, so be careful there.

[Chilingsworth]

I believe the guidelines for summoning elementals said to create a room where there is little to none of it's element, and surround it with it's opposed element. So making a cage of some kind should work (Forcecage?) so long as you can restrict it's movement abilities. (Weirdstone?) Of course, without a circle, it can attack you, so be careful there.

Where are the procedures for elemental summon printed? I don't think I've ever noticed them.:smallconfused:

[Raven777]

Pathfinder got it covered :

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/outsider-categories

Elementals are further down the page.

There must be equivalent crunch and fluff for 3.5... somewhere...

[Deophaun]

Unfortunately, since it's True Neutral, none of the usual magic circle diagrams would work to contain it.
Actually, because it's true neutral, every magic circle would work on it.

[Chilingsworth]

Actually, because it's true neutral, every magic circle would work on it.

Really? :smallconfused: I know Holy Aura and its ilk worked agasinst other alignments, I didn't realise magic circles did.

[Grinner]

Really? :smallconfused: I know Holy Aura and its ilk worked agasinst other alignments, I didn't realise magic circles did.

Yeah. From the description of Magic Circle against Evil:


"When focused inward, the spell binds a nongood creature..." - PHB, pg. 249

[Deophaun]

Yup. Magic circles exclude everything except those of the proper alignment.

When focused inward, the spell binds a nongood called creature

it can imprison a nonchaotic called creature

it can imprison a nonlawful called creature

it can imprison a nonevil called creature
If magic circles didn't work on your standard elemental, they wouldn't be popular binding targets.

[Chilingsworth]

Well, that's handy.

One other question: Will the magic circles prevent a ravid from flying out of the trap (since it has perfect manuverability and therefore needs no forward movement to fly upwards)?

EDIT: Also, can a ravid's animate objects ability affect objects outside the summoning circle?

[Deophaun]

One other question: Will the magic circles prevent a ravid from flying out of the trap (since it has perfect manuverability and therefore needs no forward movement to fly upwards)?
Yes. While your DM may interpret the magic circle to have no vertical boundary, the fact remains that the ravid cannot cross it regardless of how high above the circle it flies. It may also take no actions that may directly or indirectly disrupt the circle, so keeping a roof over its head that it has to break (the resulting destruction of which might cause debris to break the circle) should keep it reasonably earthbound.

[TuggyNE]

Yes. While your DM may interpret the magic circle to have no vertical boundary, the fact remains that the ravid cannot cross it regardless of how high above the circle it flies. It may also take no actions that may directly or indirectly disrupt the circle, so keeping a roof over its head that it has to break (the resulting destruction of which might cause debris to break the circle) should keep it reasonably earthbound.

Or, to be more certain, put a flimsy paper screen over the circle with a number of precariously balanced objects almost heavy enough to fall through placed directly over strategic spots on the circle. :smallwink:

[Erik Vale]

If it's a problem, draw to circles. One horizontal, one verticle. If someone asks how you did it, say magic. Problem solved.

[TuggyNE]

If it's a problem, draw to circles. One horizontal, one verticle. If someone asks how you did it, say magic. Problem solved.

Hmmmm... draw a single circle, half on the floor, half on the wall next to it. Unarguably serves as a single trap for the spell to use, and also obviously cages them in more thoroughly. Needs to be pretty big though.

[Andezzar]

Hmmmm... draw a single circle, half on the floor, half on the wall next to it. Unarguably serves as a single trap for the spell to use, and also obviously cages them in more thoroughly. Needs to be pretty big though.Unfortunately that form is not a circle.

[TuggyNE]

Unfortunately that form is not a circle.

Technically the requirement is "a two-dimensional bounded figure with no gaps along its circumference", but you're right, non-Euclidean geometry isn't likely to be effective.

Except for containing Far Realms creatures, maybe.

[Andezzar]

Technically the requirement is "a two-dimensional bounded figure with no gaps along its circumference", but you're right, non-Euclidean geometry isn't likely to be effective.Additionally it requires:
A little powdered silver with which you trace a 3-foot diameter circle on the floor (or ground) around the creature to be warded.So the form cannot be on a wall, but it could be square, using taxicab geomertry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab_geometry), because the book does not specify which metric to use :smalltongue: SCNR.