Are wu jen worth it?

[silverwolfer]

Are wu jen worth it, or should I just roleplay a wizard and pretend am from the east?

[mattie_p]

Read and find out - the wu jen handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246975).

[silverwolfer]

yeah looked at it, was incomplete , will check the spell list a bit later, from what I understand wu jen makes a better gish then wizard but not a better wizard .

[TaiLiu]

Wu Jen do get a few unique spells, but the Wizard has a lot more splat book support.

[Yuki Akuma]

Wu Jen are okay.

They're not the best, but they're far from the worst. As long as everyone else in your party isn't using some massive TO combo to break the game in half, you should be fine.

[Darth Stabber]

They have some interesting spells, of the no sr variety, particularly metal spells. They also have that one big buff spell that is worth wishing or miracleing for.

[Wings of Peace]

No. They are not.

[Yora]

Yes, they are.

[Waddacku]

They're magnitudes more powerful than the vast majority of classes. Less so than wizards, due to less splatbook support. They're still a prepared full caster with access to a lot of the significant chunks of the Sorc/Wiz list.

[nedz]

No. They are not.


Yes, they are.
He's behind you !

They're magnitudes more powerful than the vast majority of classes. Less so than wizards, due to less splatbook support. They're still a prepared full caster with access to a lot of the significant chunks of the Sorc/Wiz list.

this basically.
Obviously Wizard > Wu Jen, but then Wizard > most classes.

[Zale]

In other words..

They're less powerful than a Wizard.

But, keep in mind pretty much everything is.

[Kazyan]

In terms of power, they're Wizard-lite with a few tricks of their own. Fire Shuriken (hint: apply Fell Drain/Energy Substitution and stock up), the Spirit Binding Line, +2 CL to half of their list, and of course the big 7ths.

But their biggest strength is that they're just more interesting then Wizards. What a Wizard does with a nondescript utilitarian spell, Wu Jen equivalents have style. Fire Wings, for example.

[Talionis]

Wu Jen is a slightly weaker Wizard. Wizards are always worth it, the only class better than Wizard is arguably Artificer (arguably). Wu Jen are really powerful though. They get some unique spells and can do unique things.

Level 7 spell Body Outside Body is one of the most abusable spells in the game. Especially if you combine it with Archmage to make Body Outside of Body a Spell-like ability which the clones can then also use.

But there are sneaky ways for Wizards and Artificers to do everything a Wu Jen can.

Wu Jen have an oriental flavor/fluff which doesn't have to be carried forward and possibly could be refluffed to your taste.

The Wu Jen weaknesses, I forget the actual terminology are a little silly, but I think they make for interesting role play.

But if you want to ban Wizards from your game then Wu Jen could easily be very powerful.

[Psyren]

They're still T1, or at a minimum high T2. I don't see the problem with them at all. They get Glitterdust, Polymorph, Wall of Force, Time Stop, Wish... everything they need to give a DM fits.



The Wu Jen weaknesses, I forget the actual terminology are a little silly, but I think they make for interesting role play.


The taboos are a joke to bypass. Can't own more than you can carry? Haversack. Can't bathe? Prestidigitation. Can't touch a corpse? Wear gloves. Can't eat {X}? Ring of Sustenance. Can't drink alcohol? ....Ok, you got me on that one, that sucks.

[Darth Stabber]

Can't drink alcohol? ....Ok, you got me on that one, that sucks.

Alcohol can be absorbed anally, infact lots of people have succumb to alcohol poisoming that way. So you can still get drunk.

[SilverLeaf167]

I view the taboos more as an interesting piece of class fluff that was simply given mechanics for emphasis, rather than something that's actually intended to be a major weakness. If the player wants to get around it, then they can do that, with a little effort, but they can also use it as a tool to better characterize their PC.

[Norin]

Alcohol can be absorbed anally, infact lots of people have succumb to alcohol poisoming that way. So you can still get drunk.

Wait... what? :smallconfused:

Also, this goes under the "Why not just play a wiz".

I guess, as an answer to the OP, i must say: If you looked at wu jen and found it cool, as i assume you did since you made this thread, why not go for it?

It's a pretty good full arcanane caster class with some fluff and fun. Do it! Dare to be different.

(Not anally absorbing alcohol different, but still!) :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

Alcohol can be absorbed anally, infact lots of people have succumb to alcohol poisoming that way. So you can still get drunk.

Rather than booty bump in robes, it might be easier (and a lot safer) just to break the taboo :smalltongue:

[Arcanist]

Alcohol can be absorbed anally, infact lots of people have succumb to alcohol poisoming that way. So you can still get drunk.

... WELL! that is enough internet for me today...

[Darth Stabber]

Wait... what? :smallconfused:

Also, this goes under the "Why not just play a wiz".

I guess, as an answer to the OP, i must say: If you looked at wu jen and found it cool, as i assume you did since you made this thread, why not go for it?

It's a pretty good full arcanane caster class with some fluff and fun. Do it! Dare to be different.

(Not anally absorbing alcohol different, but still!) :smalltongue:

Technically you can absorb it through your skin as well, but it is slower, and harder to monitor your intake. Butt drinking has roughly the same aborbtion rate as normal ingestion, is very low in calories, and is less likely to make you throw up. But if take a quick vodka bath, you'll get drunk pretty quick, and if you take a long vodka bath you'll die. Random science blogs FTW!

As a note, I have never done either, and would not do so given the fatality rates. Assuming you had sober person watching you, it could be done safely, but how many sober people are going to go to that sort of party.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Body Outside Body has some interesting applications. Giant Size, of course, is in hot demand for those with Miracle. But overall you can do more with a wizard, especially if you're the main arcanist in the group.

[Arcanist]

But overall you can do more with a wizard, especially if you're the main arcanist in the group.

... There is only ONE Arcanist on these forums :smallcool:

[Ernir]

IMO, the Wu Jen's greatest weakness is how easy it is to compare it to the Wizard...

[Darth Stabber]

IMO, the Wu Jen's greatest weakness is how easy it is to compare it to the Wizard...

True. If they weren't so similar they wouldn't be the red headed step children of tier 1 that they are now. Shugenja is far more separated from cleric, ninja from rogue, and samurai from fighter, in mechanical terms.

[Tokuhara]

I adore Wu Jen, but I wish they got more support (IIRC, Spell Compendium omitted them entirely. Shame) in spells and maybe a PrC or two

[Darth Stabber]

I adore Wu Jen, but I wish they got more support (IIRC, Spell Compendium omitted them entirely. Shame) in spells and maybe a PrC or two

Spell compendium does infact have Wu Jen spells, but it's the only book outside CArc that has any specific support.

[Tokuhara]

Spell compendium does infact have Wu Jen spells, but it's the only book outside CArc that has any specific support.

Which is truly sad.

Would there be any spells from the lists of existing classes that wouldn't be too much to ask a DM if they could be added?

If not, how can one turn Wu Jen into a "Wizard but Better?"

[Larkas]

I think that CM also has some stuff for the Wu-Jen.

(And by reading on this stuff, I just got very upset by some piece of misleading information (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20051227a) by WotC :smallmad: )

[Darth Stabber]

Which is truly sad.

Would there be any spells from the lists of existing classes that wouldn't be too much to ask a DM if they could be added?

If not, how can one turn Wu Jen into a "Wizard but Better?"

There really isn't a good way to make it better than wizard, for every super optimization trick that could be applied solely to wu jen, there are 20 that can be applied to either and 20 that can only apply to wizard. Spells have to be judged on a case by case basis. The first requirement should be "not in PHB, CArc, or SpC", and elemental flavor as a second.

[Tokuhara]

As a note, both Dragon Magic and Complete Mage have Wu Jen spells as well.

I also though a 1 level dip into Sandshaper and dips into PrCs that expand Wu Jen's sad spell list. Don't get me wrong. If I went into a campaign and my DM slipped me Wu Jen's list and said, "These are the only spells you are allowed to cast," I wouldn't be mad. I don't think anyone here at the playground would be mad.

[sreservoir]

well, there is perhaps a reason that wu jen's tier 1 credentials are disputable and it could be considered tier 2 on account of the limited size of its spell list compared to the Big Three lists.

still capable of breaking the game wide open, though.

[silverwolfer]

I think it is becuase it is "funner" to describe on how a wu jen cast a spell and what happens, versus a wizard pointing a finger an a ray or summons creature just appears and ends, versus a wu jen punching the ground and becoming a earth bender making rock explode from the ground 50 ft away.


Yeah...wu jen remind me of elemental benders from avatar

[Darth Stabber]

As a note, both Dragon Magic and Complete Mage have Wu Jen spells as well.

I also though a 1 level dip into Sandshaper and dips into PrCs that expand Wu Jen's sad spell list. Don't get me wrong. If I went into a campaign and my DM slipped me Wu Jen's list and said, "These are the only spells you are allowed to cast," I wouldn't be mad. I don't think anyone here at the playground would be mad.

Arcane disciple is a worthwhile investment, add a domain to your spell list for a feat.