Nonviolent Spellcaster

[NotScaryBats]

I am making a level 4 Gestalt character for a game, and want to make a spellcaster. I'd like to use Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace for flavor reasons.

I'm considering several builds, with a 32 point buy:
Cleric//Sorcerer, 16 Wis and Cha
Favored Soul//Sorcerer, 14 Wis, 18 Cha
Favored Soul/Saint(2LA)//Sorcerer, 22 Cha with +4 from Saint

I'd like to have Nonviolent Substitution, but since the Vows cost 3 feats, I dunno how I could get both by level 4.

What do you think?

[mattie_p]

Human with Vow of Poverty would get you there, or human +1 flaw, I think.

[Story]

Why not just RP the vows but not actually take the feats? You'll be a lot more powerful without them and it's not like the absence of the feats forces you to kill everyone.

[NotScaryBats]

I thought +4 to DCs was a fair tradeoff. With 22 Cha, a Hold Person is DC 22, right? That seems really high for ECL 4.

[Acanous]

You're pretty much stuck with human or Flaws here, and if you go Human you need VoPoverty.

Edit: No, if your CHA is 22, that's +6 to the DCs. Hold Person is a lv 3 spell, so you're looking at DC19.

[Chilingsworth]

If you do take the feats (or even if you don't) another good build for this would be:

Beguiler//Wizard (enchanter, diviner, or generalist.)

int synergy
lots of non-damaging spells (enchantment, illusion, divination, and buffs, even some conjurations (like grease and web))
Lots of skill points

No particular downsides I can think of. Oh, sure you wont be able to heal people well, but with UMD (on the beguiler skill list) you'll even be able to do abit of that!

If you can use flaws, take two of them (probably ones that reduce your attack bonuses, since you wont be using those) and be an elf for the elf generalist racial ACF on your wizard side. Take the feats sacred vow, vow of nonviolence, and nymph's kiss (the + to cha based skills is nice, as is the + to skills.)

If you can't take flaws, be human and take sacred vow and nymph's kiss. vows of nonviolence and peace can wait till 3rd and 6th level if needed. Or be an elf, take nymph's kiss, and take sacred vow, vow of nonviolence, and vow of peace as your 3rd, 6th, and 9th level feats respectively. Also, as your 5th level bonus feat, don't forget nonlethal spell.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Beguiler 5/ Divine Oracle 1/ Beguiler 14// Factotum 8/ Apostle of Peace 2/ Divine Oracle 9/ Contemplative 1, get the feat prerequisite for Divine Oracle from the Frog God's Fane detailed in CS.

[NotScaryBats]

(I meant with both 22 Cha and the +4 DC from Nonviolence, cast lvl 2 as a Favored Soul or Cleric)

Another issue is that Nonlethal Substitution from Book of Exalted Deeds has Prerequisite: Another Metamagic Feat, so it costs 2 feats to get it.

EDIT that build above is pretty cool, but I'm only making a 4th level character.

[Chilingsworth]

(I meant with both 22 Cha and the +4 DC from Nonviolence, cast lvl 2 as a Favored Soul or Cleric)

Another issue is that Nonlethal Substitution from Book of Exalted Deeds has Prerequisite: Another Metamagic Feat, so it costs 2 feats to get it.

EDIT that build above is pretty cool, but I'm only making a 4th level character.

So, you don't expect your character to level, ever? Is this for a oneshot?

Also, yeah I forgot about the metamagic feat prereq. My bad.

[NotScaryBats]

Whoops, I responded to the other guys, but somehow overlooked your post.

I expect to level, and a Beguiler // Wizard does look interesting.
I could only do 18 Int with this build, but that still gives an impressive 20 DC on a level 2 spell combined with Nonviolence...


So, everyone agrees to skip the Saint Template?


EDIT:
The build I've come up with is Archivist 4 // Wizard 4
It has the int synergy mentioned above, but with both arcane and divine spells.

The feats don't do a lot for me, but are kinda cool.

The Sheet (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=495401)

Highlights:
DC 19 lvl 1 spells and DC 20 lvl 2 spells
Color Spray, Sleep, Hold Person, Charm Person