[PF] The Dwarven Problem

[ReluctantDragon]

So, I'm about to take part in a PF game, using only PF resources(those found in the PRD).

I'm interested in Ranger and am looking at going TWF. Being as The Hobbit is so popular and I love me some dwarf anyway, I'm looking at the iconic Dwarf Ranger(second only to the Dwarven Cleric in terms of icons, I believe).

I've perused the requisite documents in the PF message boards from Treantmonk and company. Though helpful, they don't address my plans for this character.

I'll be utilising the Dwarven Waraxe. The eventual plan is to charge in, power attack two-handed, then from there go two weapon fighting. Here is the conundrum I am facing: What else do I wield? I could wield two Dwarven Waraxes, but take penalties. I could wield a shield, but take penalties, or I could wield a hand axe and take less of a penalty. Any recommendations? Also feat recommendations aside from the fighting style that I get for free?

If anyone is willing to offer advise and opinions, it will be much appreciated.

Thanks,
RD

[Juntao112]

Can you still TWF with armor spikes as an offhand weapon in PF, or was that ruled as powergaming munchkinry at some point?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Use armor spikes or unarmed strike as the offhand weapon and 2H the waraxe is my suggestion.

[doko239]

You could use an Urgrosh instead of a Waraxe. 1d8 instead of 1d10 on the main attack, but it's a double weapon, and martial for a Dwarf.

[Arutema]

Check out the Dwarven Boulder Helmet from the Advanced Race Guide. Nothing says hardcore like making your off-hand attacks as armored headbutts.

[Sayt]

I believe that shield bashes with light shields count as light weapon attacks.

I'ma vote for Urgrosh, because I never see anybody using Urgroshes, and I think you might get two-handed damage on your primary attack, not sure though.

[grarrrg]

Check out the Dwarven Boulder Helmet from the Advanced Race Guide. Nothing says hardcore like making your off-hand attacks as armored headbutts.

Seconded.
It counts as a Martial weapon for Dwarves, and still lets you 2-hand your Main-hand weapon.
Then it's up to you whether you want to attack with just your 2-Hand. Or get an extra 'swing' with your Helm, but with -2 on all attacks.

I know, kinda sounds like a poor deal. But depending on which Combat Style he takes, he can get feats for free (recommend taking the Two-Weapon style, as you can them skimp on DEX and pump the STR).

Also, there are a couple Dwarf/Helm specific feats.
Hard-headed (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/hard-headed-combat-dwarf) is solid, giving you +1 to hit with your Helm, and a bonus vs. Staggered Stunned.
Dented Helm (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/dented-helmet-combat-dwarf) gives you some protection vs. Critical Hits. Just be prepared to cast Mending or somesuch after combat.
Cloven Helm (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/cloven-helmet-combat-dwarf) is...not so good. It's basically the same as/stacks with Dented Helm, but the main sale of Dented Helm is the ability to redirect damage, not the amount that gets redirected.

[Cambrian]

Is there a reason why you want to dual wield as a dwarven ranger? It shouldn't do more damage than a continued use of the 2Her and you're more accurate with it.

Generally you'll be better off with treatmonks switch-hitter build. You're slow (dwarf...) and so you can't charge very far and might as well wear medium armor (again dwarf). Instead they have to get close because otherwise you can just shoot them with a crossbow/bow. If they do get close you just start beating them with your 2Her.

Wanting to 2h and dual-wield means you loose you're ranged game. I get you have a character concept but nothing says dwarf like calm and stable footed (ranged) and big 2Hed weapons.

[Raven777]

If you want to pursue it for flavor reasons, knock yourself out, but I'll second that Ranger TWF is a trap.

Better off opening fights with a Bow and then switching to a 2-hander.

[ReluctantDragon]

Well, I have the image of a dwarf fighting with 2 axes...

I don't necessarily want to purposefully gimp him though. I might just try a switch hitter build to still keep a little with the idea.

[grarrrg]

Well, I have the image of a dwarf fighting with 2 axes...

I don't necessarily want to purposefully gimp him though. I might just try a switch hitter build to still keep a little with the idea.

Well...as an alternate-alternate option.
Use the Bow, but still wear a Boulder Helm.
Then you can still threaten and make AoO's.

Even if you don't plan on Two-Weapon fighting with it, it is STILL a nice thing to have if you're using a bow.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Well, I have the image of a dwarf fighting with 2 axes...

You could always fluff a 2H double headed axe as two single-headed axes merged together into a single, better weapon. :smallcool:

A character from my favorite anime fought w/ two katanas and when using his finishing move joined them together at the butts of the handles. On rare occasions he'd fight normally with them merged like that. The bio-mechanics probably wouldn't work out too well in real life, but dang if it didn't look cool as hell. It's still the first thing I think of when I see the two-bladed sword on the weapons table. :smallsmile:

[herrhauptmann]

I'ma vote for Urgrosh, because I never see anybody using Urgroshes, and I think you might get two-handed damage on your primary attack, not sure though.

I believe it's only if you're not actually using the spear end of the urgrosh. 2handed urgrosh and armor spikes should give 2handed Power Attack bonuses though.

To the OP:
Why not use an alternate weapon style?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger#TOC-Combat-Style-Options

[TopCheese]

You could always fluff a 2H double headed axe as two single-headed axes merged together into a single, better weapon. :smallcool:

A character from my favorite anime fought w/ two katanas and when using his finishing move joined them together at the butts of the handles. On rare occasions he'd fight normally with them merged like that. The bio-mechanics probably wouldn't work out too well in real life, but dang if it didn't look cool as hell. It's still the first thing I think of when I see the two-bladed sword on the weapons table. :smallsmile:

I haven't remembered Ronin Warriors in a looooong time. If I wasn't on my phone I would post a picture of the blades.

+1 for the off hand headbutt idea!

[herrhauptmann]

I haven't remembered Ronin Warriors in a looooong time. If I wasn't on my phone I would post a picture of the blades.

+1 for the off hand headbutt idea!

Here.
http://m36.photobucket.com/image/recent/tidalwav/Ryo_of_the_Wildfire/supermove_800.jpg.html?src=www

[Zubrowka74]

APH seems to push the idea of a xbow ranger if you are to believe the art in the book.

[Suddo]

Do you just want to be a two weapon fighting dwarf? Because you can easily play a fighter and do that, I think they have a ACF for a hammer wielding one.

I mean I understand the desire to play a Ranger but other than the pet and skill points everything else can basically be refluffed (you can even take traits so you are more outdoorsy). Yes Favored X is nice but with the extra feats you can just be strong all the time and have you're character just like fighting in forests/dungeons.

[Juntao112]

+1 for the off hand headbutt idea!

Please. A real dwarf uses his beard.

[Cambrian]

I think the issue is aside from concept (which is a legitimate reason) why fight with two weapons? You tend to make yourself less accurate for no-more, or even less, damage. The optimal uses of TWF is to get more attacks for attack multiplier abilities like Sneak Attack.

For the dwarf it would come at a cost of his ranged ability. You wouldn't need the Dex Prereqs for the TWF (use that as your specialty) but your attacks are no better so you gave up ranged options for no actual gain in melee combat.

The character concept is appealing but the rules don't make it all too effective.

The biggest issue I see with the switchhitter dwarf is you'll likely want a comp-bow to take advantage of your strength when a crossbow/firearm seems more flavorful for a Dwarf...

I suppose 2 throwing axes (or better yet Dwarven Maulaxe (Adventurer's Armory) for a x3 crit and B or S damage type) could work and be flavorful. You could (I believe) use rapid shot to throw 2 in a round with your main hand at -2. With quick draw and something like an Efficient Quiver you would also get iterative attacks. Of course there is the major issue of a 10ft range; which makes your ranged attacks less accurate. Multiple magical axes are significantly more expensive (especially since you'll want the distance magic enhancement on them) than a single magical composite bow and less versatile for ammunition type to overcome DR...

I suppose you need to ask yourself what other classes will you be playing with and how optimized do you need to be to not be easily overshadowed? (assuming this is a concern for you)

[StreamOfTheSky]

Wow, there's a lot of Ronin Warriors fans here, I guess.

[Rob Roy]

Please. A real dwarf uses his beard.

I'm sorry, but you appear to be using an alternate spelling of "magma" that I am not familiar with.

[TopCheese]

Please. A real dwarf uses his beard.

No a real dwarf would respect the beard and allow his other fist to punch through it.

Edit: Hint: other fist is a chin fist

[Larpus]

The biggest issue I see with the switchhitter dwarf is you'll likely want a comp-bow to take advantage of your strength when a crossbow/firearm seems more flavorful for a Dwarf...
Well, that's easily fixable with reskinning, just say the comp. bow is a crossbow and if needed, refluff the "pull the string harder" as the xbow pulling the string further back but requiring greater strength to use at all.

[Ryulin18]

In the d20pfsrd, there is a menagerie of Combat style options (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger#TOC-Combat-Style-Options). One of the best being two-handed weapons. So you can have your ranger skills and still be a decent fighter.