Divine 7?

[Vaz]

I've joined a group tonight where I have been essentially told "you're the divine guy, make it work". It was assigmed as a random roll.

This has come as a shock to me. 1) I voluntarily never play a caster if I can help it, I'm newish to the game, and spellcasting for me has been little more than "and the wizard casts Bear's Endurance on the Barbarian".

I have access to a ton of books; I'd appreciate a hint of where to look if you pass me on a hint though. I do not think Dragon mag is allowed and I do not yet have Dragon Compendium.

Some I've come up with so far are something like a Snowflake Wardance/Dragonfire Inspiration/Sound of Silence/Inspire Spellpower Divine Bard. I understand it is MAD, but it is extremely helpful. Can you get a Divine Prestige Bard? Is it worth it? I do notice that Divine Bard adds some useful stuff like Create Food.

Druid; Aspect of Nature to tone down Wildshape; I find it a bit more fun, as we are going into Level 8 eventually.

Cleric/Cloistered Cleric; I hear of how broken this is, but is it really so at this level?

[silverwolfer]

If you are divine rank 7 don't bother with the paper work, you are a god . Go find the book faiths and pantheons page through a few of the god's builds until you find one that is divine rank 7 and just steal the build and portfolio if it fancy's you.


If i took your question wrong and you have to make a divine character at level 7

look at this

https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20020406a

download the web supplement, a fun lil example of a level 1 god and how it gains power leveling up.

[Waker]

Ok, aside from being "Divine", is there any particular goals that you have in mind for this character? Did you want to sit back and buff your party? Did you want to lead the charge yourself? Have a horde of minions do all the work? Go with the wizard-wannabe? The dreaded healbot?
Also knowing the levels and the makeup of your party is always helpful.

[toapat]

I've joined a group tonight where I have been essentially told "you're the divine guy, make it work". It was assigmed as a random roll.

This has come as a shock to me. 1) I voluntarily never play a caster if I can help it, I'm newish to the game, and spellcasting for me has been little more than "and the wizard casts Bear's Endurance on the Barbarian".

I have access to a ton of books; I'd appreciate a hint of where to look if you pass me on a hint though. I do not think Dragon mag is allowed and I do not yet have Dragon Compendium.

Some I've come up with so far are something like a Snowflake Wardance/Dragonfire Inspiration/Sound of Silence/Inspire Spellpower Divine Bard. I understand it is MAD, but it is extremely helpful. Can you get a Divine Prestige Bard? Is it worth it? I do notice that Divine Bard adds some useful stuff like Create Food.

Druid; Aspect of Nature to tone down Wildshape; I find it a bit more fun, as we are going into Level 8 eventually.

Cleric/Cloistered Cleric; I hear of how broken this is, but is it really so at this level?

Druid: Wildshape is arguably better then your spell list, nerfing that would probably be a bad idea

Cloistered Cleric: Typically you use them to get DMM: Persist at lvl 1, so yes, completely broken by now.

Crusader: If you are the divine caster for heals, Crusader is the best without access to second party, with access, paladin is theoretically better (the specific costs of paladin becoming #1 at healing are a feat tax to make you have only 1 mental attribute, and Divine spirit (dungeonscape), which is better then the mount anyway), but unlikely to have the actual same sort of longevity as crusader.

[gallagher]

If you are new to being a caster, then a straight up cleric is where you want to be. Cloistered Cleric is better for most builds, but the bonus stuff it gets you are probably not things you would use regularly due to inexperience.

Basically, you have a bazillion awesome buffs to choose from, I suggest looking through the guides online, and take a minute to thumb through the Spell Compendium if you have access to it. Also, in the PHB, you have Righteous Might and Divine Strength. Always prepare at least one of those (4th and 5th level spells)

Divine Bard is also a fun thing to be if you want to me less based on magic.

[KillianHawkeye]

Personally, I wouldn't play with a group if they forced me into playing a specific race/class or more generally a type of character or role in the party that I wasn't comfortable with. Suggestions are all well and good, but not giving you a choice at all seems like a bad sign.

Good luck on your continuing search for a proper gaming group!

[Gavinfoxx]

Do they want you to be the healer?

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.minmaxboards.com/index.php%3Ftopic%3D2710

[Vaz]

Sorry, meant to say Divine Caster, Silverwolfer. If it was a Divine Rank, I'd just be taking anything to have Fun rather than "building".

For party roles, all I know is that there is an Archer using Maneuvres and Stances from Tome of Battle; I think using Swordsage to hop in and out of Shadow.

There is a Genasi Factotum, I believe going strait Factotum.

And there is a "Birdmaster"; something I've taken to be a Beastmaster PrC focusing on funnily enough, birds. Comes apparently from his Pokemon days where his Team is almost entirely Flying Type.

There is another character joining at the same time as me, but I do not know what role he is to play.

I don't know much about the campaign however; although with 5 Party Members, at least one acting like Ash Ketchum, buffing could be helpful, but I can't help but feel that an Undead Master could be quite fun to use. It can just be CL 7, it doesn't have to be a straight class feature dependent either.

My personal leaning is to either a Tiefling or some sort of similar natured creature; slightly evil. I might consider taking a few Psionic powers later on; so one with an Int synergy (perhaps a Skill Monkey?) sounds reasonable. I think a Healer is maybe what they meant; it is what I first thought of, but I don't feel like playing World of Warcraft Healbots who are only of use to cast Vigor and be done.

I believe that thenDM allowed DMM last game (through a Divine Incantatrix
Homebrew), so that is a possibility as well.

However, spells granting Temporary hitpoints, and the like attract me. I suppose a bit of Fast Healing would not go amiss so possible a Dragon Shaman dip for the FH2 aura, but aside from that. I can always UMD a wand if things get laiey I suppose?

[silverwolfer]

Congrats, 8 views and 7 responses, you are the most inspiring and post inspiring thread tonight.

[enderlord99]

If you are divine rank 7 don't bother with the paper work, you are a god . Go find the book faiths and pantheons page through a few of the god's builds until you find one that is divine rank 7 and just steal the build and portfolio if it fancy's you.


If i took your question wrong and you have to make a divine character at level 7

look at this

https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20020406a

download the web supplement, a fun lil example of a level 1 god and how it gains power leveling up.

He isn't any sort of god! He's a "divine spellcaster."

[silverwolfer]

He isn't any sort of god! He's a "divine spellcaster."



is he ash?

[Story]

Crusader: If you are the divine caster for heals, Crusader is the best without access to second party, with access, paladin is theoretically better (the specific costs of paladin becoming #1 at healing are a feat tax to make you have only 1 mental attribute, and Divine spirit (dungeonscape), which is better then the mount anyway), but unlikely to have the actual same sort of longevity as crusader.

Can a Paladin beat Persisted Mass Lesser Vigor?

[enderlord99]

is he ash?

Lieutenant Lowercase! What Are You Doing?! :smallwink:

[gallagher]

Actually, a divine bard would be one of the best things to do. You get some buffs, wands of CLW because it appears on your spell list, and there will be literally millions of opportunities to RP!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Go with a Druid, start Druid 7 and be Druid 20 at 20th, it's extremely difficult to mess it up. Use Strongheart Halfling (PGtF, trade the racial save bonus for a bonus feat) plus Water Halfling (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater) (UA). Take two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm): Bestial Instinct and Love of Nature (http://alt.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258440#30), and consider the Uncivilized (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#uncivilized) trait.

Starting feats should be Ashbound (ECS), Greenbound Summoning (LEoF), Spell Focus: Conjuration, Augment Summoning, Natural Bond (CV), and Natural Spell. Future feats can be anything you want, but should probably include Multiattack and maybe Combat Reflexes and/or Power Attack + Leap Attack.

Your animal companion should be a Fleshraker dinosaur (MM3), your Natural Bond feat will negate the 'level -3' penalty for having a stronger companion because you can apply your own effects in the most beneficial order. Say you used Handle Animal to give it the Warbeast template (MM2). You can Wild Shape into a Fleshraker as well.

Starting items should be a Monk's Belt, Wildling Clasp (MIC), and 2,000 gp remaining to get mundane gear and barding for your animal companion. A Monk's Belt gives you the entire AC Bonus class feature of a Monk, including adding your Wis bonus to AC. If you're good/exalted you can also cast (Greater) Luminous Armor (BoED) on yourself each day, using poison excludes you from an exalted status (fleshraker form/companion) but you don't specifically need to be exalted to cast sanctified spells, though some DMs may disagree.

Your Greenbound Dire Rats, Hawks, and Dire Bats will be able to cast Wall of Thorns on top of opponents, which completely screws anything caught in it. Greenbound creatures are extremely resilient and sure to last the entire duration even if opponents focus attacks on them.

Other spells to use include Produce Flame (delivered via every natural attack per holding the charge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardCastaSpell) on a touch spell), Wall of Smoke (cast across occupied squares to force an immediate save), Kelpstrand, Creeping Cold (get a Lesser Rod of Extend for this), Sleet Storm (Lesser Rod of Extended), Icelance, Ice Storm, Arc of Lightning, etc.

[Gavinfoxx]

Biff is optimizing pretty hard... but, well.

Let me put it this way. Whenever someone says that a mundane army would beat a high level spellcaster, I pull out a Druid 9, statted out to basically annihilate any mundane medieval or renaissance army (mostly warrior's up to level 4, maybe a general that is a Marshal 5 or 6 or something, or an Aristocrat or Fighter or whatever... but basically, an army of non-superhuman [ie, level 6 and under], non magical folk without access to major magical equipment). The build is here:

http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=54924

Also remember that by level 8, you can spend 24/7 Wildshaped as a Druid. Just get a Pearl of Speech (Magic Item Compendium), and maybe an assistant to help you put your gear on after you wildshape.

[toapat]

Can a Paladin beat Persisted Mass Lesser Vigor?

yes, they can grant Fast healing 10, as opposed to fast healing 1.

and they can persist Mass Lesser Vigor if they learn the spell (through feats)

Oh, and Celerity

[Sacrieur]

He isn't any sort of god! He's a "divine spellcaster."

Right. Spellcaster. This term is synonymous with "god" in D&D. Namely all wizards, clerics, and druids.

[enderlord99]

Right. Spellcaster. This term is synonymous with "god" in D&D. Namely all wizards, clerics, and druids.

Really? They all have divine ranks?:smallannoyed:

[toapat]

Really? They all have divine ranks?:smallannoyed:

no, but typically they are less handicapped then gods in using their power, while having normally similar levels of power.

[Gavinfoxx]

Really? They all have divine ranks?:smallannoyed:

No, he was using hyperbole... though Wizard 18's can achieve about the same 'able to do basically anything they want, and essentially impossible to kill, and able to greatly alter reality' sorts of things that Gods can do...

And many of the Tier 1's can do things that Deities and mythology are described as being able to do. And many of them can kill actual statted out Deities without overly much issue.

[SowZ]

Sorry, meant to say Divine Caster, Silverwolfer. If it was a Divine Rank, I'd just be taking anything to have Fun rather than "building".

For party roles, all I know is that there is an Archer using Maneuvres and Stances from Tome of Battle; I think using Swordsage to hop in and out of Shadow.

There is a Genasi Factotum, I believe going strait Factotum.

And there is a "Birdmaster"; something I've taken to be a Beastmaster PrC focusing on funnily enough, birds. Comes apparently from his Pokemon days where his Team is almost entirely Flying Type.

There is another character joining at the same time as me, but I do not know what role he is to play.

I don't know much about the campaign however; although with 5 Party Members, at least one acting like Ash Ketchum, buffing could be helpful, but I can't help but feel that an Undead Master could be quite fun to use. It can just be CL 7, it doesn't have to be a straight class feature dependent either.

My personal leaning is to either a Tiefling or some sort of similar natured creature; slightly evil. I might consider taking a few Psionic powers later on; so one with an Int synergy (perhaps a Skill Monkey?) sounds reasonable. I think a Healer is maybe what they meant; it is what I first thought of, but I don't feel like playing World of Warcraft Healbots who are only of use to cast Vigor and be done.

I believe that thenDM allowed DMM last game (through a Divine Incantatrix
Homebrew), so that is a possibility as well.

However, spells granting Temporary hitpoints, and the like attract me. I suppose a bit of Fast Healing would not go amiss so possible a Dragon Shaman dip for the FH2 aura, but aside from that. I can always UMD a wand if things get laiey I suppose?

Problem with tiefling is it hurts your Charisma and gives you stats that aren't very important to you. /: Regardless, if you go tiefling, go with lesser tiefling. As a caster, a point of LA is almost never worth it.

[Morph Bark]

Druid: Wildshape is arguably better then your spell list, nerfing that would probably be a bad idea

For a beginner? Arguable, it depends on what he prefers, but if he sticks to specific wild shape forms it could be easier to keep track of and certainly easier to keep his character alive.

For someone experienced? I'd say it's a good initiative. If the rest of the party is Tier 3 or below, or even Tier 2 or below, you already got that great spell list to get ahead. A little nerfing ain't bad all the time.

[Yora]

Whatever you do, do not try to heal damage to the other player characters faster than the enemies can deal it. This is a fight that is impossible to win. If you have to support, rather make sure they don't get hit and the enemies are defeated quickly.
And when all enemies are dead, then patch up the injuries of the player characters.

Clerics are easy, they have good equipment, are tough, and have lots of spells that can make them stronger than any fighter or barbarian.

But as a question to everyone else. If a cleric casts buffs on a fighter and not himself, would the fighter be a more powerful warrior than the cleric would with the same spells?

[nedz]

And there is a "Birdmaster"; something I've taken to be a Beastmaster PrC focusing on funnily enough, birds. Comes apparently from his Pokemon days where his Team is almost entirely Flying Type.
With this guy in the party combats will take forever if you have an army of minions too.

There is another character joining at the same time as me, but I do not know what role he is to play.
Presumably the Arcanist. It would be useful to know more about him so we can advise about party balance.

However, spells granting Temporary hitpoints, and the like attract me. I suppose a bit of Fast Healing would not go amiss so possible a Dragon Shaman dip for the FH2 aura, but aside from that. I can always UMD a wand if things get laiey I suppose?
Temp HP are generally not worth it. The Dragon Shaman aura is available as a feat (Draconic Aura — Dragon Magic, p. 16 ) — no need to waste a level. Persisted Mass Lesser Vigor is better anyway.

[Krazzman]

I, if I would be in such a situation, would go for Ruby Knight WINdicator.
Cleric 4/Crusader1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 2.
Core rulebook and Tome of Battle + Completes for Feats.

Domains:
Planning and the one that grants Extra Turning.
Feats:
Divine Metamagic: Persistant Spell, Persistant Spell, either Intuitive Strike (wis to hit, instead of Str or go for Wis>STR>=Con>Cha=Int>Dex) or any other feat you would like to have (maybe the healing touch Reserve Feat for when you are stripped of all equipment?).
Maneuver:
Remember you start with InitiatorLevel 3, Choose the stuff you are interested in the most, I advice taking at least Mountainhammer or Foehammer.
(Protip: Print out maneuvercards since you pretty much get your maneuvers similar to collectible card games as a crusader. This makes it easy.)

Pro:
You have spells, with them you can heal, buff or do other stuff, thanks to divine metamagic you can sacrifice Turn Undead Attempts to lower the spell level of your persisted spells, you are able to contribute quite good in combat thanks to maneuvers and stances and Thanks to RKV you are actually getting class abilities with your spells.

Con:
Losing Casterlevels (I think 2 levels, 1 in RKV, one for the Crusader level).
Some rather "hard" to get Skillprereqs and due to fluff might be vetoed.

Another approach, if you can be evil is probably CrusaderX/UrpriestX/RKV. But I'm unsure about that one.

This is how I would go for it since I'm personally not that sure about playing pure spellcasters. I hope this still helps.

[Vaz]

Found what the other character is. It's an Artificer. That can be the healer, can it not?

A bit more information; the Adventure is Starting at Level 3, and increasing up to Level 7, possibly up to Level 8.

I've just had a quick read through the Heroes of Horror. Archivist is can take 2nd Level spells at 3rd Level; plus Dark Knowledge.

I wouldn't mind being an "downtime" helper - there's a fair bit of roleplay, so a bit of Knowledge and social skills wouldn't go amiss.

So, despite my rambles, I've decided on an Archivist. What are some good buffs to go for with a Level 3, Int 18 Archivist? Assuming no-Wisdom bonuses for ease so far; 4 Level 0, 3 Level 1, and 2 Level 2 Spells.

So; running through this (bear with me, remember, this is spellcasting cherry popping 101); Spell's in Spellbook.

Level 0 Spells; All Cleric
Level 1 Spells; 3 Cleric
Level 2 Spells; 2 Cleric

Intelligence Bonus = +4 = 4 Additional Level 1 Cleric Spells.

Level 2 Archivist = +2 Additional Level 1 Cleric Spells.
Level 3 Archivist = +2 Additional Level 2 Cleric Spells.

So; without having encountered any more spells - I've worked out I have All Level 0 Cleric Spells, 9 Level 1 Cleric Spells, and 4 Cleric Spells, able to cast 4 Level 0, 3 Level 1, and 2 Level 2? Is that correct?

I'd appreciate help filling those spell levels; as well as any non-Cleric Divine Spells I can purchase as Scrolls to learn. Thank you for all your help so far; seems that Spellcasting isn't as hard as it initially looks like with all the numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers filling the tables.

[Gavinfoxx]

Artificer is a powerful Tier 1, and can thus be everything.

Healer, Archer, Melee-er, buffer, utility guy, scout/traps guy, battlefield controller, social guy, etc. etc.

Archivist is a Tier 1 too, and can do the same.

Here's a level ~5 Archivist I made (with several houserules... but those can be determined fairly easily. Ask if you have questions.)

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=363718

Also, look at this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjzWDdrpxjKQdGhhVk1SdzlLRVlreE1wU2syNkFYb Xc#gid=2

And click the 'spells for atlastforgot game' tab, and look at the chart I made...

Remember, you can buy scrolls for Cleric, Cleric ACF's and Domains, Paladin, Ranger, Druid, Sanctified, Adept, Shugenja, Divine Bard, Healer, Nentyar Hunter, Emisarry of Barachiel, Runescarred Berserker, Slayer of Domiel, etc. for your Prayerbook. Though you will have to ask your GM if some scrolls cost extra due to rarity.

Here are some archivist handbooks:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.minmaxboards.com/index.php%3Ftopic%3D185

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php%3Ftopic%3D3545

In fact, why don't you just browse that entire google document, it has lots of interesting stuff on it for an Archivist...

The Build I was going for was: Cloistered Cleric 1 (Destroy Undead ACF)/Archivist 5/Dweomerkeeper 2/Sacred Exorcist 1/Dweomerkeeper +8/Anything 3

Destroy Undead is in Return to Castle Ravenloft. Cloistered Cleric is in SRD or Unearthed Arcana. Sacred Exorcist is in Complete Divine. Dwoemerkeeper is in the Complete Divine Web Enhancement.

With Academic Priest feat from Dragonlance: Legend of the Twins, your casting becomes Single Attribute Dependent. With Practiced Spellcaster, you cast as, by level 20, a level 19 Archivist with the caster level of a level 20 Archivist.

Two pools of turn undead (turn undead and destroy undead) means that you can persist a large number of spells with your Nightstick and your Reliquary Holy Symbol, especially if you have a few Extra Turnings, which also apply to both.

Consider dipping Cloistered Cleric at level 1.

[SowZ]

Whatever you do, do not try to heal damage to the other player characters faster than the enemies can deal it. This is a fight that is impossible to win. If you have to support, rather make sure they don't get hit and the enemies are defeated quickly.
And when all enemies are dead, then patch up the injuries of the player characters.

Clerics are easy, they have good equipment, are tough, and have lots of spells that can make them stronger than any fighter or barbarian.

But as a question to everyone else. If a cleric casts buffs on a fighter and not himself, would the fighter be a more powerful warrior than the cleric would with the same spells?

Either way, it is the best thing to do so you don't make the Fighter player feel totally irrelevant.

[LTwerewolf]

But as a question to everyone else. If a cleric casts buffs on a fighter and not himself, would the fighter be a more powerful warrior than the cleric would with the same spells?

Not really. One spell (divine power) mimics being a fighter and is personal only. Full BaB, an extra hp per caster level, and +6 strength. This makes the cleric at least equivalent. Righteous might is also personal, which gives you another +4 to str and +2 to con, gives you a size bonus (usually meaning giving you reach), and gives you damage reduction. After that, all the buffs are pretty much the same.

[Sacrieur]

God is not a healbot. Heal only if you need to, or let the paladin have his fun. Healbots are only marginally better than the waste of space.

God does not attack foes directly, he simply makes it easy for the mortals to win. This can be done quite easily by conjuring a wall splitting up forces, debuffing enemies, or buffing the mortals (turn big stupid fighter into very big stupid fighter).

Play your cards right and you can smile on the inside knowing you were the reason the mortals won their battle, and they'll feel they won their own battle.

[subject42]

It's not super powergamey, but the spirit shaman is a lot of fun as a divine class. Its spellcasting mechanic combines the best parts of both prepared and spontaneous casting, and pulls from the druid list, which is decent enough to be fun.

On top of that, it has 3/4 BAB, d8 hit die, and a really odd mishmash of class features that end up being situationally useful. The ability to do 7d6 points of damage to any incorporeal undead, fey, elemental, or astrally-projecting NPC in 30 feet is kind of useful.