Warlock 3.5E question

[kaielx]

I am a 1st/2nd edition player so am a bit new to 3.5 and have two questions.

1. Does the feat Point Blank Shot add +1 to the total dmg of eldritch blast or +1 per die. Surprisingly I could not find such a clarification in the DMG or PHB

2. Assuming a Warlock2/Sorc6/Eldritch Theurge10 in regards to the Spell Blast ability. Assuming I have any and all the feats needed, (Rapid Metamagic, Arcane Thesis, Pratical Meta Max(fireball), Arcane Thesis(fireball), etc...., is the following Legal

a. Arcane Spellsurge
b. Spell Blast w/ Greater Arcane Fusion ( Maximized Fireball / Twinned Fireball )
Total = EB 6d6 + 60 + 10d6 + 10d6

Further is using Quicken Spell Like Ability on Spell Blast legal to do the above twice had I the spell slots.

[barna10]

1) Point Blank Shot can be used with Eldritch Blast within 30' and it only adds +1 damage, not +1 damage per die

2) First, you really don't need Rapid Metamagic and Arcane Surge. Second, you could do it with a twinned, maxed fireball OR a twinned fireball, but not two different spells. Why not just use Delayed Blast Fireball and forget the Twin Spell (save yourself like 8 feats).

3) Yes, with Quicken SLA you could do it twice in one round.

[Person_Man]

1) A "roll" includes all of the dice within that roll. So for a third level Warlock, the attack roll would be 1d20 + Dex, and the damage roll would be 2d6. With Point Blank Shot, the attack roll would be 1d20 + Dex, and the damage roll would be 2d6 + 1. Also, Feats that provide minor non-scaled bonuses (such as Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Skill Focus, etc) suck compared to other Feats and should generally be avoided if possible.

2) You can stack as many different metamagics as you want to onto a spell, assuming you have a spell slot high enough to do it. Though I'm not sure that particular damage calculation is correct. I'm away from books right now, and I know that Empower/Maximized/etc spells are calculated in very specific ways.

[Diarmuid]

1) A "roll" includes all of the dice within that roll. So for a third level Warlock, the attack roll would be 1d20 + Dex, and the damage roll would be 2d6. With Point Blank Shot, the attack roll would be 1d20 + Dex, and the damage roll would be 2d6 + 1. Also, Feats that provide minor non-scaled bonuses (such as Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Skill Focus, etc
) suck compared to other Feats and should generally be avoided if possible.2) You can stack as many different metamagics as you want to onto a spell, assuming you have a spell slot high enough to do it. Though I'm not sure that particular damage calculation is correct. I'm away from books right now, and I know that Empower/Maximized/etc spells are calculated in very specific ways.

While mostly true, PBS is a requirement for Precise Shot and is a commonly taken feat for warlocks.

[nedz]

Pretty sure PBS adds one to the attack roll as well as damage.

[Socratov]

even if you use quicken, it is arbitrarily stated that you can't blast twice in the same round. To do that you need the epic feat for it (which specifically states you can blast multiple times per round)

[barna10]

Epic feat Eldritch Sculptor states "You can use two eldritch blasts per round as a full attack action, rather than the normal limit of one."

This isn't saying you can't get two blast any other way.

[kaielx]

Thanks for the prompt replies, perhaps let me ask it another way, having read the sorcerer's and wizard's handbooks, and seeing the crazy combos possible (scorching ray, wings of furry, etc..) with the warlock2/sorc4/ET10 build, no dips in other classes, though I might add Incantatrix later. What would be a kick ass combo for a quickened spellblast assuming access to any needed feats.

[barna10]

Thanks for the prompt replies, perhaps let me ask it another way, having read the sorcerer's and wizard's handbooks, and seeing the crazy combos possible (scorching ray, wings of furry, etc..) with the warlock2/sorc4/ET10 build, no dips in other classes, though I might add Incantatrix later. What would be a kick ass combo for a quickened spellblast assuming access to any needed feats.

How about Choking Cobwebs from Complete Mage. The combo will stop an army in it's tracks without any extra feats or crazy tricks.

Or Great Thunderclap from Magic of Faerun. Nice!

[kaielx]

Just to clarify, more interested in max damage, though I totally understand how spellblast can be a great method for battlefield control.

[barna10]

Just to clarify, more interested in max damage, though I totally understand how spellblast can be a great method for battlefield control.

Then you've already done about as much as you can do beside adding empower SLA. Also, look into the Chausible of Fell Power and Warlock Scepter from Complete Arcane.

Also, if you're more interested in damage, you might consider warmage instead of sorcerer.

[nedz]

even if you use quicken, it is arbitrarily stated that you can't blast twice in the same round. To do that you need the epic feat for it (which specifically states you can blast multiple times per round)
What ?
Where ?
Do you have a rule reference for that please ?


Then you've already done about as much as you can do beside adding empower SLA. Also, look into the Chausible of Fell Power and Warlock Scepter from Complete Arcane.

Also, if you're more interested in damage, you might consider warmage instead of sorcerer.
The Chausibles are good, the Sceptre is a bit naff though.
Also you can make a better blaster with Sorcerer than you can with Warmage, and have other options too.

[Socratov]

What ?
Where ?
Do you have a rule reference for that please ?


The Chausibles are good, the Sceptre is a bit naff though.
Also you can make a better blaster with Sorcerer than you can with Warmage, and have other options too.
as part of the web content published by WotC on epic level warlocks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20061027a):

Eldritch Sculptor [Epic]

You control and shape your eldritch blasts like a master sculptor.

Prerequisites: One invocation from the least, lesser, greater, and dark blast shape invocation categories, Spellcraft 24 ranks.

Benefit: You can use two eldritch blasts per round as a full attack action, rather than the normal limit of one. You can apply eldritch essences to both blasts. If you possess the Lord of All Essences feat, you can imbue each blast with two eldritch essences. Activating this ability is part of the action to use an eldritch blast.

The area and range of all your eldritch blasts is doubled. Activating this ability is part of the action to use an eldritch blast. If you imbue your eldritch blast with the eldritch spear blast shape, the range increases to 500 feet. If you are using the hideous blow invocation, you no longer suffer attacks of opportunity for invoking this power in melee and all attacks of opportunity you make can include hideous blow. If you imbue your eldritch blast with the eldritch chain blast shape, you may start the chain up to 120 feet away from you and the maximum distance between each target increases to 60 feet. The area of the eldritch doom blast shape increases to 40 feet from you. The range of your eldritch cone increases to 120 feet.

You gain +2 bonus on attack rolls to hit an opponent with your eldritch blast. This is an extraordinary ability.

Normal: A warlock can use only one eldritch blast per round. Using the hideous blow blast shape provokes attacks of opportunity and cannot be used as part of an attack of opportunity.(emphasis mine)

the normal part refers to the machanic as it is before taking this feat and specifically mentioned as once per round.

Though if you want to maximise damage with warlock you might want to chekc out the warlock handbook and hover over the eldritch claws feat found in dragon magic (or if that's not flying, the glaive) which can actually reach terrifying heights as well as act as weapons and thus usable for AoO's and some more stuffs :smallwink:

[Prime32]

as part of the web content published by WotC on epic level warlocks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20061027a):

Eldritch Sculptor [Epic]

You control and shape your eldritch blasts like a master sculptor.

Prerequisites: One invocation from the least, lesser, greater, and dark blast shape invocation categories, Spellcraft 24 ranks.

Benefit: You can use two eldritch blasts per round as a full attack action, rather than the normal limit of one. You can apply eldritch essences to both blasts. If you possess the Lord of All Essences feat, you can imbue each blast with two eldritch essences. Activating this ability is part of the action to use an eldritch blast.

The area and range of all your eldritch blasts is doubled. Activating this ability is part of the action to use an eldritch blast. If you imbue your eldritch blast with the eldritch spear blast shape, the range increases to 500 feet. If you are using the hideous blow invocation, you no longer suffer attacks of opportunity for invoking this power in melee and all attacks of opportunity you make can include hideous blow. If you imbue your eldritch blast with the eldritch chain blast shape, you may start the chain up to 120 feet away from you and the maximum distance between each target increases to 60 feet. The area of the eldritch doom blast shape increases to 40 feet from you. The range of your eldritch cone increases to 120 feet.

You gain +2 bonus on attack rolls to hit an opponent with your eldritch blast. This is an extraordinary ability.

Normal: A warlock can use only one eldritch blast per round. Using the hideous blow blast shape provokes attacks of opportunity and cannot be used as part of an attack of opportunity.
(emphasis mine)

the normal part refers to the machanic as it is before taking this feat and specifically mentioned as once per round.By that logic undead aren't destroyed at 0hp since Diehard says creatures without the feat have a -1 to -9 range, and clerics + sorcerers need spellbooks since that's the Normal entry for Spell Mastery.

A feat can only change your character if you take it, not just by existing.

[Lonely Tylenol]

as part of the web content published by WotC on epic level warlocks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20061027a):
(emphasis mine)

the normal part refers to the machanic as it is before taking this feat and specifically mentioned as once per round.

Though if you want to maximise damage with warlock you might want to chekc out the warlock handbook and hover over the eldritch claws feat found in dragon magic (or if that's not flying, the glaive) which can actually reach terrifying heights as well as act as weapons and thus usable for AoO's and some more stuffs :smallwink:

It's referring to the fact that an Eldritch Blast "normally" (as in, without the assistance of feats, class features, or anything assisting it; just using the class feature in a vacuum, with no assistance) is a standard action (and not an attack action) and thus can only be done once in a typical round (which only involves one standard action). Note that things like Quicken Spell-Like Ability (which turns Eldritch Blast into a swift action, and therefore allows you to occupy both a swift action and a standard action with Eldritch Blast), Celerity (which gives you an extra standard action as an immediate action), and Belt of Battle (which can give you a variable degree of extra actions as a swift action, depending on the number of charges you expend) are not "normal" circumstances, but all of them allow you to make additional Eldritch Blasts.

Consider this reasoning, for comparison, applied to Improved Grapple, straight out of core (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedGrapple):


Improved Grapple [General]
Prerequisites
Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike.

Benefit
You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you make a touch attack to start a grapple. You also gain a +4 bonus on all grapple checks, regardless of whether you started the grapple.

Normal
Without this feat, you provoke an attack of opportunity when you make a touch attack to start a grapple.

Special
A fighter may select Improved Grapple as one of his fighter bonus feats.

A monk may select Improved Grapple as a bonus feat at 1st level, even if she does not meet the prerequisites.

Emphasis mine. The text explicitly states that "without this feat, you provoke an attack of opportunity". Yada yada.

But then we also have the Improved Grab ability, as demonstrated by the brown bear (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bearBrown.htm):


Improved Grab (Ex)
To use this ability, a brown bear must hit with a claw attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Should be noted that I don't see Improved Grapple anywhere on the brown bear's stat block. So why does it get to make grapple attempts without provoking an attack of opportunity? :smallannoyed:

The brown bear can still make grapple checks without provoking because Improved Grab is a deviation from the "normal" circumstance expressed in the subheader of the Improved Grapple feat. In fact, any deviation from "normal" through class features, other feats, spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, and extraordinary abilities of any kind technically creates a deviation from "normal", and can be considered an exception to "normal" if it modifies the stated parameters. It is possible to not have the feat in question for any ability, and still not be "normal" because some other feat or ability still changed the parameters of "normal" for you. It's possible to use more than one Eldritch Blast per round without Eldritch Sculptor, provided you are using the Eldritch Glaive or Eldritch Claw blast shapes, the Quicken Spell-Like Ability feat, a Belt of Battle, are somehow a choker (or something else that gets extra standard actions), or any other variation of the theme--all of these are deviations from the "normal" Eldritch Blast in a vacuum--but none of them (well, except, I suppose, for Eldritch Glaive) lets you do the exact thing that Eldritch Sculptor lets you do, which is to replace your standard action blast with a full attack containing multiple blasts.

[nedz]

the normal part refers to the mechanic as it is before taking this feat and specifically mentioned as once per round.

Normally: yes
But if you take the feat Quicken SLA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#quickenSpellLikeAbility) (Eldritch Blast) you can cast a quickened Eldritch Blast as a swift action 3/day.
You are limited in what Shapes and Essences you can apply, depending upon your HD, as given in the table on the page in the link; since these increase the effective spell level of the Eldritch Blast.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If you are just wanting to do damage as a blaster with Warlock, you might get more mileage out of Hellfire Warlock than trying to wed a Mailman-lite to it with Eldritch Theurge.

[Malroth]

Be an elan grab psionic shot, greater psionic shot and Psionic Meditation, 4d6 bonus damage per shot which will stack with the 6d6 bonus damage hellfire warlock gives you

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Be an elan grab psionic shot, greater psionic shot and Psionic Meditation, 4d6 bonus damage per shot which will stack with the 6d6 bonus damage hellfire warlock gives you

Considerably more than 6d6 when paired with certain other tricks, like Legacy Champion.

Your problem with Psionic/Greater Psionic Shot is that it consumes your focus, which means you need to spend an action to refocus after you use it. I'd rather use that action to blast again for around 40d6.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Considerably more than 6d6 when paired with certain other tricks, like Legacy Champion.

Your problem with Psionic/Greater Psionic Shot is that it consumes your focus, which means you need to spend an action to refocus after you use it. I'd rather use that action to blast again for around 40d6.

With Psionic Meditation, which was already listed, the action that you use to refocus is a move action, so you can apply the Psionic Shot line to your standard attack shots every round without ever using your standard action to refocus.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

With Psionic Meditation, which was already listed, the action that you use to refocus is a move action, so you can apply the Psionic Shot line to your standard attack shots every round without ever using your standard action to refocus.

Assuming you never want to move...

Also, that means it won't work with Eldritch Glaive, since it isn't a ranged touch attack anymore, which cuts your damage ouptut significantly by not having iteratives.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Assuming you never want to move...

I'm sure a 16th-level arcane spellcaster can find some workaround or other to this, even if it's no more effective than carrying lots of Chronocharms of the Horizon Walker.


Also, that means it won't work with Eldritch Glaive, since it isn't a ranged touch attack anymore, which cuts your damage ouptut significantly by not having iteratives.

I was under the impression that we were discussing a Spellblaster? Having to be within 10-20 feet of the person I'm delivering a Spellblast to would be a bad idea anyway.

[kaielx]

Thanks for all the input, again was looking at maximizing spellblast, I have read about clawlocks and glaivelocks and amnot interested in melee. Seems there is some debate on whether hellfire blast is an essence or not elsewhere in the forums, if not then I would definately take it up as a hellfire spellblast would be nice. However my base question on spellblast and metamagic has been answered. Basically I see this charcter raining eldritch/arcane hell from high in the sky like some dbz villain.

[Socratov]

Thanks for all the input, again was looking at maximizing spellblast, I have read about clawlocks and glaivelocks and amnot interested in melee. Seems there is some debate on whether hellfire blast is an essence or not elsewhere in the forums, if not then I would definately take it up as a hellfire spellblast would be nice. However my base question on spellblast and metamagic has been answered. Basically I see this charcter raining eldritch/arcane hell from high in the sky like some dbz villain.

well, since it's not stated as being an essence, it's not, what it does say is that you turn your EB into a HFB adding damage, but you can still apply all sort of shapes (and thus essences as well) to it. so IMO you can still sling around a virtiolic Hellfire eldritch spear (aka, kamehameha). :smallbiggrin:

[Socratov]

It's referring to the fact that an Eldritch Blast "normally" (as in, without the assistance of feats, class features, or anything assisting it; just using the class feature in a vacuum, with no assistance) is a standard action (and not an attack action) and thus can only be done once in a typical round (which only involves one standard action). Note that things like Quicken Spell-Like Ability (which turns Eldritch Blast into a swift action, and therefore allows you to occupy both a swift action and a standard action with Eldritch Blast), Celerity (which gives you an extra standard action as an immediate action), and Belt of Battle (which can give you a variable degree of extra actions as a swift action, depending on the number of charges you expend) are not "normal" circumstances, but all of them allow you to make additional Eldritch Blasts.

Consider this reasoning, for comparison, applied to Improved Grapple, straight out of core (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedGrapple):



Emphasis mine. The text explicitly states that "without this feat, you provoke an attack of opportunity". Yada yada.

But then we also have the Improved Grab ability, as demonstrated by the brown bear (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bearBrown.htm):



Should be noted that I don't see Improved Grapple anywhere on the brown bear's stat block. So why does it get to make grapple attempts without provoking an attack of opportunity? :smallannoyed:

The brown bear can still make grapple checks without provoking because Improved Grab is a deviation from the "normal" circumstance expressed in the subheader of the Improved Grapple feat. In fact, any deviation from "normal" through class features, other feats, spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, and extraordinary abilities of any kind technically creates a deviation from "normal", and can be considered an exception to "normal" if it modifies the stated parameters. It is possible to not have the feat in question for any ability, and still not be "normal" because some other feat or ability still changed the parameters of "normal" for you. It's possible to use more than one Eldritch Blast per round without Eldritch Sculptor, provided you are using the Eldritch Glaive or Eldritch Claw blast shapes, the Quicken Spell-Like Ability feat, a Belt of Battle, are somehow a choker (or something else that gets extra standard actions), or any other variation of the theme--all of these are deviations from the "normal" Eldritch Blast in a vacuum--but none of them (well, except, I suppose, for Eldritch Glaive) lets you do the exact thing that Eldritch Sculptor lets you do, which is to replace your standard action blast with a full attack containing multiple blasts.
well, the bear's ex ability specifically negates that penalty. Quicken does no such thing, further more, the normal part of the epic feat description states per round, not per standard action. It's not just implying that you can only use it once per standard action (which is the normal EB description: EB takes standarad action to make ranged touch attack, yadda-yadda-yadda), but it limits to once per round period.

Normally: yes
But if you take the feat Quicken SLA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#quickenSpellLikeAbility) (Eldritch Blast) you can cast a quickened Eldritch Blast as a swift action 3/day.
You are limited in what Shapes and Essences you can apply, depending upon your HD, as given in the table on the page in the link; since these increase the effective spell level of the Eldritch Blast.

but it still doesn't say specifically that you can cast the standard version in the same round again. the reason why I would take QSLA is for flee the scene quickened. damn nice, great panic button.

[SargesPrivates]

I'm sure a 16th-level arcane spellcaster can find some workaround or other to this, even if it's no more effective than carrying lots of Chronocharms of the Horizon Walker.


just wanted to chime in to say:

they work once per day and must be worn for 24 hours before they work, you cant switch them out for more uses.

[Lonely Tylenol]

just wanted to chime in to say:

they work once per day and must be worn for 24 hours before they work, you cant switch them out for more uses.

You're right. Replace "Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker" with "Belt of Battle".

[Axier]

well, the bear's ex ability specifically negates that penalty. Quicken does no such thing, further more, the normal part of the epic feat description states per round, not per standard action. It's not just implying that you can only use it once per standard action (which is the normal EB description: EB takes standarad action to make ranged touch attack, yadda-yadda-yadda), but it limits to once per round period.


but it still doesn't say specifically that you can cast the standard version in the same round again. the reason why I would take QSLA is for flee the scene quickened. damn nice, great panic button.

Eldrich blast is an SLA, and QSLA allows you to use an SLA as a swift action.

The feat gives you the ability to perform a full attack action with the SLA, this is not normal, but neither is QSLA.

[Socratov]

Eldrich blast is an SLA, and QSLA allows you to use an SLA as a swift action.

The feat gives you the ability to perform a full attack action with the SLA, this is not normal, but neither is QSLA.
part 1: indeed, that's all it does. It allows you to use an SLA as a swift action instead of a standard action. nothing more, nothing less.

I mean I odn't want to punish warlocks here, but by raw it's iffy at best. It woudl take some RAI guesswork, and a malicious DM could be well within his rights to forbid it. But, then again most DM seethat warlocks need some love anyway. Any DM not seeing that is an idiot. (unless in a party of monks and truenamers and samurai* ofcourse, but do you really want to play that? )

*except for Schneeky's Samurai ofcourse. that is one scary build... :smalleek:

[Rijan_Sai]

Aha! Relevant information!

Casting Time (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#castingTime):

Casting Time
Most spells have a casting time of 1 standard action. Others take 1 round or more, while a few require only a free action.

A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.

A spell that takes 1 minute to cast comes into effect just before your turn 1 minute later (and for each of those 10 rounds, you are casting a spell as a full-round action, just as noted above for 1-round casting times). These actions must be consecutive and uninterrupted, or the spell automatically fails.

When you begin a spell that takes 1 round or longer to cast, you must continue the concentration from the current round to just before your turn in the next round (at least). If you lose concentration before the casting is complete, you lose the spell.

A spell with a casting time of 1 free action doesn’t count against your normal limit of one spell per round. However, you may cast such a spell only once per round. Casting a spell with a casting time of 1 free action doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity.

You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect.

Quicken Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#quickenSpell):

Quicken Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit
Casting a quickened spell is an swift action. You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell. You may cast only one quickened spell per round. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened. A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Casting a quickened spell doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity.

Finally,
Quicken Spell-Like Ability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#quickenSpellLikeAbility):

Quicken Spell-Like Ability [General]
Prerequisite
Spell-like ability at caster level 10th or higher.

Benefit
Choose one of the creature’s spell-like abilities, subject to the restrictions described below. The creature can use that ability as a quickened spell-like ability three times per day (or less, if the ability is normally usable only once or twice per day).

Using a quickened spell-like ability is a free action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The creature can perform another action—including the use of another spell-like ability—in the same round that it uses a quickened spell-like ability. The creature may use only one quickened spell-like ability per round.

The creature can only select a spell-like ability duplicating a spell with a level less than or equal to half its caster level (round down) -4. For a summary, see the associated table.

In addition, a spell-like ability that duplicates a spell with a casting time greater than 1 full round cannot be quickened.

Normal
Normally the use of a spell-like ability requires a standard action and provokes an attack of opportunity unless noted otherwise.

I'm pretty sure, (though I have no proof and can't seem to find it in the SRD,) that I remember reading that any given spellcaster is "normally" limited to one spell per round, just as the Warlock is "normally" limited to one EB per round. The emphasized points above do seem to give president to that fact, though.

Just as a Quickened spell, or a free or swift-action spell, "overrules" this and allows a caster to use more then one spell in a round, (may have to double-check that about non-Quickened swift-action spells...,) so too does Quicken SLA allow a Warlock to use more then one Eldrich Blast per round.

(EB is an invocation; invocations are Spell-like abilities; SLA's "normally" take a standard action to use (including EB); QSLA causes SLA to be used as a swift-action; standard action still remains this round, useable for another EB, attack, different invocation or anything else that takes a standard action.)

[kaielx]

On a slightly separate warlock note since it was mentioned. With Eldritch Claws and a level 20 warlock for simplicity sake would grant him 2 attacks at BAB.

If he met the requirments for Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike how many attacks with those claws would he get.. Seems there is some discussion on this.

RapidStrike : Either would grant 4 attacks or 3 by some readings
RapidStrike and Imp Rapidstrike : 6 or 5

all at 9d6

am I correct?

[kaielx]

-bump- for my last question

[nedz]

Eldritch Claws are natural weapons — so you don't get iteratives.
(With Eldritch Glaive you do I believe.)

Rapidstrike would give you an extra attack at -5 — for 3 attacks total
Improved Rapidstrike would give you two extra attacks at -5 — for 4 attacks total