The Fighter's Fightbook of Fighting

[Suteinu]

The Fighters’ Fightbook of Fighting
I've always been a fighter. If you tell me I can't, I'll die trying to prove you wrong.
R. A. Salvatore

“Generally speaking, the Way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death”
Miyamoto Musashi

I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion.
Alexander the Great

“Audacity! Always audacity!”
William the Conqueror

Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood.
George S. Patton

“When you gotta shoot, shoot; don’t talk!”
Tuco

The purpose of this handbook (well, pamphlet, anyway) is to examine the Fighter of earlier editions of our beloved game and to reconstruct, as competitively as possible, the quintessential Fighter in a 3.5 format. I also hope that this turns out to be, at least, an entertaining read, and a sounding board for those in the Playground who are far wiser than I in such matters as building the most with the least [Truenamer notwithstanding]. I have, I gratefully admit, stood on the shoulders of Giants in the Playground to construct this thread. I hope that you all enjoy this, and that no one finds offense in’t.

Unlike most “handbooks” presented on this illustrious forum, the layout of the Fighters’ Fightbook of Fighting will be largely focused on the historical development of this class and a specific build that reflects this historical reference. Later on we’ll worry about optimal stats, skills, feats, and options. The reason I will not put much emphasis on these more common handbook aspects first is because: 1) they are covered better by so many others than myself, and 2) the fighter is such a generalist in construction that focusing him is a task I find more than a little daunting.

To begin …
It is a shame that the Fighter must be so maligned because of an unfocussed design and, thus, a low-rung tier. True, the numbers do not lie, but his pedigree is noble enough to garner admiration. Father Gygax’s original line-up of three character-types included the Fighting-Man, a title suggested by some fine verse featured in R. E. Howard’s The Phoenix and the Sword. Look through the old 0D&D and AD&D’s 1 and 2 material; behold the infamy of Robilar, the daring of Strongheart, the brutality of Warduke, the heroism of Sturm Brightblade, the tenacity of Kelemvor, and, yea, even the dual-classism of Conan himself!
Bear in mind, too, that the Fighting-Man’s descendants, the Paladin, the Ranger, the Barbarian, the Swashbuckler, the Knight, the Warblade, and others are all built on the same foundation: be durable, be courageous, and back-up that courage with ability!

[Suteinu]

So how did the Fighter get left in the min/maxing dust?

In 3.0, feats were codified and made a basic game mechanic. The idea of such abilities and maneuvers had been introduced in 2nd Ed material like Player Options and the Diablo suppliments, but now they were an exciting new way to define your character. In the excitement, WotC said, “Fighters? Ah, yes, they’ll get … The Most Feats!” And it seemed a good idea, until …

Players started cherry-picking, an option that had been much more complicated in editions past. “Barbarian? With a couple of extra feats? Why not?” Then everything was fixed with 3.5 … except the Fighter (OK, neither was the Monk, but I’m not speaking of them). An unfocussed generalist he was, and thus would he remain. The “Wizards” didn’t catch-on that 11 bonus feats just were not as sexy as 11 or more Special Abilities. It is enough to make one truly SAD, and, indeed, the Fighter shed tiers …

So let’s go back to the beginning and see what was the original intent behind the Fighter, and see if we can’t come up with something useful.

What Made the Fighter the Fighter?
(or, What Made the Fighter So Good (or Evil, or Neutral) Back in the Day?)

Requirements: Any race could be a Fighter. All you needed were a Str 9 or more and a Con 7 or more. That’s it. Oh you didn’t want those, to be sure, but that’s all you needed.

Great Strength: Yes, with an 18 Str you could roll percentile dice to be even stronger! This is one of those things that fed the image of the Fighter as a heavily armored frontline melee monster.

Weapons: Could be proficient with any and all weapons and had the highest possible number of weapon proficiencies. Also had a minimal “to-hit” penalty for using weapons with which he was not proficient, and could Weapon Specialize. When proficiency in Weapon Groups came about, many a mead hall rang with the sounds of celebratory jocularity!

Armor: Wear it. Use it. Hope it ain’t cursed.

THAC0(!): Basically, the best “to-hit” possibility, or BAB.

Vows: None! Pick any alignment you want.

Followers: Leadership was a Class Feature at 9th level.

Second Edition also granted Fighters (and everyone else) some cool kits (for the youngsters out there, think specialties or ACF’s) to help focus their talents and define their rolls. This might have been the first recognizable sign of trouble: too general? Specify!

More importantly, let us hear what G. G. G. himself (and his fellow writer/ editors) says about the fighter:

(The Red Book, p. 28) “A Fighter … studies combat. Fighters usually have greater strength than other characters.”

“Strength is needed in many game situations. For example, a door may be stuck, or a huge boulder may block the party’s progress; a strong Fighter can often solve these problems. Magic might also work, but Magic is limited (a reference to Vancien spell-casting, which limits the number of spells per day), and a Fighter can use strength as often as needed.”

(AD&D PHB, p. 22) “When a Fighter attains 9th level (Lord), he or she may opt to establish a freehold. This is done by building some type of castle and clearing the area … making it free from all sorts of hostile creatures.”

(AD&D 2nd PHB, p. XX) “The Fighter is a warrior, an expert in weapons and, if he is clever, tactics and strategy. There are many famous Fighters from legend: Heracles, Perseus, Hiawatha, Beowulf, Siegfried, Cuchulain, Little John, Tristan and Sinbad. History is crowded with great generals and warriors: El Cid, Hannibal, Alexander the Great, Charlemagne, Spartacus, Richard the Lionhearted, and Belisarius… A visit to your local library will uncover many heroic fighters.”

(Special Features from Wrath of the Dragon God) “Certainly, the Fighter relies on his sword or his bow or whatever it is … (the Fighter is) an excellent party leader…

“The Fighter in the D&D game is supposed to be the ‘Tank.’ He is there, heavily armored, swinging the sword, protecting everybody else from what’s going on… (and) the Fighter is supposed to do something as well as sword-swinging.”


Most of this has translated pretty directly from the AD&D’s to 3.X, more’s the pity when compared to other classes. Sure, it’s a faithful transition, but it simply doesn’t shine like it used to. Funny, but isn’t that the way of evolution: a basic species becomes other specialized species until they specialize themselves into extinction?

[Suteinu]

The Build

So let’s have a go at building a 3.5 Fighter that represents Gygax’s stated purpose and makes a descent party member:

Fighter (ACF’s: Counter Attack, Dungeon Crasher, Elusive Attack, Overpowering Attack, Physical Prowess, Resolute, Zhentarim Fighter)

1 d10 Bonus feat
2 d10 Dungeon Crasher
3 d8 Physical Prowess (Applied Force), Zhentarim Fighter
4 d10 Bonus feat
5 d8 Physical Prowess (Applied Force), Zhentarim Fighter
6 d10 Dungeon Crasher
7 d10 Physical Prowess (Applied Force)
8 d10 Resolute
9 d8 Physical Prowess (Applied Force), Zhentarim Fighter, Leadership (level feat)
10 d10 Elusive Attack
11 d10 Physical Prowess (Applied Force)
12 d10 Counter Attack
13 d10 Physical Prowess (Applied Force)
14 d10 Bonus feat
15 d10 Physical Prowess (Applied Force)
16 d10 Overpowering Attack
17 d10 Physical Prowess (Applied Force)
18 d10 Bonus feat
19 d10 Physical Prowess (Applied Force)
20 d10 Bonus feat

- Counter Attack, Elusive Attack, and Overpowering Attack are solid later-on uses for a full-attack

- Dungeon Crasher is good for a powerhouse-type dungeoneering team member.

- Physical Prowess (Applied Force): Bend Bars/Lift Gates, anyone?

- Resolute helps to shore-up a weak point in the Saving Throw department and mechanically lends to the idea of a strong-minded leader.

- Zhentarim Fighter: G.G.G. intended for the Fighter to be a leader, a motivator. Besides the obvious uses of Intimidation, access to Bluff and Diplomacy are useful, especially if your party lacks a diplomancer.

Feats: With this build there are 11 feats available, 12 if Human (Strongheart ½ ling, etc.). The 9th level feat is here reserved for Leadership to account for the older editions’ option to attract followers. He also gets Skill Focus: Intimidate through Zhentish Soldier at level 3. With five (or six) feats by level 6, plus the given ACF’s, I think we’ve a good, solid platform for any melee build!

In the spaces to follow, I plan to offer other Fighter builds, each based on a different Attribute (or two; I’ll try not to make them too MAD).

[Suteinu]

The Strength Build
Or
Maxwell Silverhammer

1 d10 LF: Power Attack, BF: Combat Reflexes
2 d10 Dungeon Crasher
3 d8 Physical Prowess (Applied Force), Zhentarim Fighter, LF: Imp. Bull Rush
4 d10 BF: Martial Study (Charging Minotaur)
5 d8 Physical Prowess (Applied Force), Zhentarim Fighter
6 d10 Dungeon Crasher, LF: Shocktrooper
7 d10 Physical Prowess (Applied Force)
8 d10 Resolute
9 d8 Physical Prowess (Applied Force), Zhentarim Fighter, LF: Leap Attack
10 d10 BF: Imperious Command (+Never Outnumbered skill trick)
11 d10 Physical Prowess (Applied Force)
12 d10 Counter Attack, LF: Robilar’s Gambit
13 d10 Physical Prowess (Applied Force)
14 d10 BF: Martial Study (Iron Heart Surge)
15 d10 Physical Prowess (Applied Force), LF: Leadership
16 d10 Overpowering Attack
17 d10 Physical Prowess (Applied Force)
18 d10 LF: ?, BF: ?
19 d10 Physical Prowess (Applied Force)
20 d10 BF: ?

Here we have a basic dungeoneering team-player who definitely depends on his teammates without simply riding the clock. As he’s a pretty basic model of mauling meat-shield, I’ve based him on my “Classic” build (up yonder ^). Give him some “get there” skills, Intimidation, a maul, and mithril armor and he’s pretty set for his job as far as I can tell. Now, with some reworking (replacement feats and a level or two of Barbarian, for example), Knock-Down can be a big part of his game. Or, if he has the right genetics, there’s always the Knockback approach (which can also be used through a friendly Buffer-relationship with the party’s Batman, if the GM is so agreeable).

The name comes from a Lennon/McCartney character that they made-up together during Lennon’s “lost weekend;” this fellow would clear a path through a broad dungeon tunnel, leaving orc-prints smeared across the wall on either side of him. A maul, adamantine (or silvered) or otherwise, would do the job respectably, I think, especially with the Clouting enchantment (Complete Arcane), which is essentially Imp. Bull Rush in a Bottle (… er, maul). If the GM lets you channel your Imp. Bull Rush feat through a thusly enchanted weapon, this fellow might almost pass for Sauron. There’s no text that says you can combine the two, of course, so it’d be GM’s Discretion.

Oh, while I acknowledge that there are some obvious multi-class ways to make him more efficient, I’m trying to build these Fighters strictly single-class; call it an unsocial experiment. Also, you’ll notice that the last few feat slots are blank. This is `cause I simply didn’t know what else to give him. I’ve never played a character higher than 12th level before, so I don’t know from experience what is needed by then.

[Suteinu]

Res: Dexterity Build

[Suteinu]

The Constitution Build
Or
The Tough Guy

Dwarf Fighter (Sp: Bodyguard, Drgn #310)

1 d10 Cover, LF: Troll Blooded, BF: Toughness
2 d10 Dungeon Crasher
3 d10 Physical Prowess (Stamina Reserve), retrain Toughness for Imp. Toughness, LF: Exercises of Arnd
4 d10 Clear the Path
5 d10 Physical Prowess (Stamina Reserve)
6 d10 Dungeon Crasher, LF: Lightning Reflexes
7 d10 Physical Prowess (Stamina Reserve)
8 d10 BF: Combat Reflexes
9 d10 Physical Prowess (Stamina Reserve), LF: Iron Will
10 d10 Resolute
11 d10 Physical Prowess (Stamina Reserve)
12 d10 LF: Stand Still, BF: ?
13 d10 Physical Prowess (Stamina Reserve)
14 d10 BF: ?
15 d10 Physical Prowess (Stamina Reserve), LF: ?
16 d10 BF: ?
17 d10 Physical Prowess (Stamina Reserve)
18 d10 BF: ?
19 d10 Physical Prowess (Stamina Reserve)
20 d10 BF: ?

Young Robert Howard grew up idolizing tough men. Among his heroes were a breed of boxers referred to as “men of iron,” the sort who were nigh impossible to knock down and, if you did manage to do so, they’d just keep getting up! This is my inspiration for the Con-Fighter, a wall of flesh and steel and bone and will.

Hit points, AC, & saving throws are emphasized in this build, followed then by actual combat techniques. He is the very definition of “meat-shield”, so for his job in the party I’ve chosen bodyguard, likely sticking close to a spellcaster or protecting the body of a fallen ally. The main point is, no matter what the dungeon or the dragon dish-out, he just looks that ol’ storm right in the eye and says, ”Give me yer best shot; I can take it.”

So the Bodyguard specialist offers two special abilities to this build. First, we have Cover, which allows our Fighter to share some of his (in all likelyhood) considerable AC with a nearby ally. Second, Clear the Path allows him, under defensive or protective conditions, to gain access to Cleave and Great Cleave from round to round; not the best feats, perhaps, but two. For FREE. That’s not too bad, all told, especially when you consider that he’ll usually be stationary w/ foes charging him.

If any feats really define this guy, though, they’d be the two background feats from the Greyhawk setting, Troll Blooded and Exercises of Arnd. The former lets our hero regenerate hp and re-attach severed limbs (!!!!!) while the latter allows him to chose between a small bonus to saves, attacks, or hp. Toughness is a prereq for both of them, and you’ll likely have to put some skill points into Kn (local), but that’s a small price to pay, especially at low levels. Don’t forget to retrain that Toughness, though …

[Suteinu]

The Intelligence Build
Or
The Rapier Wit

1 d10 LF: 2 Wpn Fighting, HF: Well-Read
2 d10 Sneak Attack +1d6
3 d8 Physical Prowess (Combat Bearing), Zhentarim Fighter, LF: Knowledge Devotion
4 d10 Sneak Attack +2d6
5 d8 Physical Prowess (Combat Bearing), Zhentarim Fighter
6 d10 Sneak Attack +3d6, LF: Combat Reflexes
7 d10 Physical Prowess (Combat Bearing)
8 d10 Sneak Attack +4d6
9 d8 Physical Prowess (Combat Bearing), Zhentarim Fighter, LF: Imp. Initiative
10 d10 Sneak Attack +5d6
11 d10 Physical Prowess (Combat Bearing)
12 d10 Sneak Attack +6d6, LF: Robilar’s Gambit
13 d10 Physical Prowess (Combat Bearing)
14 d10 Sneak Attack +7d6
15 d10 Physical Prowess (Combat Bearing), LF: ?
16 d10 Sneak Attack +8d6
17 d10 Physical Prowess (Combat Bearing)
18 d10 Sneak Attack +9d6, LF: ?
19 d10 Physical Prowess (Combat Bearing)
20 d10 Sneak Attack +10d6


This Intelligent Fighter relies on precision attacks and knowing his enemy. The Sneaky Fighter and Thug variants offer sneak attacks, skills, and skill points. Coupled w/ a high Int, Knowledge Devotion, the feat Well Read (a Greyhawk background feat), and the Collector of Stories skill trick, we have an effective tactical fighter, especially where teamwork (flanking) is concerned. Oh and being part of the Paragnostic Assembly is both feasible and handy, if you’re not averse to rubbing shoulders with Truenamers …

Take a look at level 3: Let us assume an Int 16 or 17 (+3). There are six Knowledge skills that offer information on creatures’/ beings’ abilities and weaknesses (arcane, dungeoneering, nature, local, the Planes, and religion). Maxing these skills leaves a total of 16 skill points left with which to work. 6 ranks + +3 (Int) + +9 bonus to these Knowledge checks. 2 skill points buy the Collector of Stories skill trick (+5 to Knowledge checks to recall/recognize a creature’s special abilities and weaknesses). So at level 3, his Knowledge Devotion checs can have a +14 modifier, averaging 24 for an Att/Dmg bonus of +2. With preparation and membership in the Paragnostic Assembly, this goes up further.

Some may consider this an abuse of Collector of Stories, but It makes sense to me. Besides, anything that I let my players do can be done right unto them again!

I think this is a fine approach to combine with Rogue (especially for Penetrating Strike) or Swashbuckler. Rangers could also benefit from this design if they really want to focus on killing the hell out of their Favored Enemies (flanking w/ an Animal Companion is easier, too). From Dragon #310, the Commander, Fencer, and Kensei specialists would make neat enhancements here. In any case, this build would make for a fun rapier-wielding, cold-eyed swordsman.

[Suteinu]

Res: Wisdom Build

[Suteinu]

Res: Charisma Build

[silverwolfer]

gj on attempting this, do you mind Bolding , your headers and starting points to make it easier to read?

[thethird]

gj on attempting this, do you mind Bolding , your headers and starting points to make it easier to read?

what he said.

Overall some formatting would be nice.

Also, I am pretty sure you refer to zhentarim fighters. You might want to correct that spelling and also point out that it is setting specific.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Also, I am pretty sure you refer to zhentarim fighters. You might want to correct that spelling and also point out that it is setting specific.

Yeah, but who follows fluff prerequisites? They're arbitrary.

[Pandiano]

Yeah, but who follows fluff prerequisites? They're arbitrary.

Especially if those modifications make playing a class more interesting and fun!

[Spuddles]

Great job on the write up. Your puns and double entendres are first class. Looking forward to more.

Perhaps you should also add a bit about the relative action advantage of high level fighters making more swings, casters taking longer to cast high level spells, and monster HP scaling slower? Fighters aren't necessarily bad (there are core only builds that can take on balors and tarrasques by clever weapon use), just bad by comparison. Also the rp stuff wasn't as heavil codified into mechanical skills. 14 charisma and some good rp got you by where now you need diplomacy, sense motive, and bluff.

[3WhiteFox3]

Great job on the write up. Your puns and double entendres are first class. Looking forward to more.

Perhaps you should also add a bit about the relative action advantage of high level fighters making more swings, casters taking longer to cast high level spells, and monster HP scaling slower? Fighters aren't necessarily bad (there are core only builds that can take on balors and tarrasques by clever weapon use), just bad by comparison. Also the rp stuff wasn't as heavil codified into mechanical skills. 14 charisma and some good rp got you by where now you need diplomacy, sense motive, and bluff.

You could follow that up with how much casters (especially wizards) were screwed by a DM who actually required you to spend the time preparing spells (it was much longer than 3.5's hour, and scaled with the level of your spells and how many you prepared) keeping track of spell components, the fact that clerics didn't even get 9th level spells (7th level was the highest that they could gain). All of these things combined to make the Fighter feel pretty awesome about himself.

[nonsi]

The Build
So let’s have a go at building a 3.5 Fighter that represents Gygax’s stated purpose and makes a descent party member:
Fighter (ACF’s: Counter Attack, Dungeon Crasher, Overpowering Attack, Physical Prowess, Resolute, Zhentish Soldier)
1 d10 Bonus feat
2 d10 Dungeon Crasher
3 d8 Physical Prowess (), Zhentish Soldier
4 d10 Bonus feat
5 d8 Physical Prowess (), Zhentish Soldier
6 d10 Dungeon Crasher
7 d10 Physical Prowess ()
8 d10 Resolute
9 d8 Physical Prowess (), Zhentish Soldier, Leadership (level feat)
10 d10 Bonus Feat
11 d10 Physical Prowess ()
12 d10 Counter Attack
13 d10 Physical Prowess ()
14 d10 Bonus feat
15 d10 Physical Prowess ()
16 d10 Overpowering Attack
17 d10 Physical Prowess ()
18 d10 Bonus feat
19 d10 Physical Prowess ()
20 d10 Bonus feat
- Counter Attack and Overpowering Attack are solid later-on uses for a full-attack
- Dungeon Crasher is good for a powerhouse-type dungeoneering team member.
- Physical Prowess (): Bend Bars/Lift Gates, anyone?
- Resolute helps to shore-up a weak point in the Saving Throw department and mechanically lends to the idea of a strong-minded leader.
- Zhentish Soldier: G.G.G. intended for the Fighter to be a leader, a motivator. Besides the obvious uses of Intimidation, access to Bluff and Diplomacy are useful, especially if your party lacks a diplomancer.
Feats: With this build there are 12 feats available, 13 if Human (Strongheart ½ ling, etc.). The 9th level feat is here reserved for Leadership to account for the older editions’ option to attract followers. He also gets Skill Focus: Intimidate through Zhentish Soldier at level 3. With five (or six) feats by level 6, plus the given ACF’s, I think we’ve a good, solid platform for any melee build!

In the spaces to follow, I plan to offer other Fighter builds, each based on a different Attribute (or two; I’ll try not to make them too MAD).

1. You forgot Elusive Attack.
2. You could make the benefits of Elusive Attack, Counterattack & Overpowering Attack stack, and on top of that add Steely Resolve, Furious Counterstrike and any other official non-maneuver feature you'd like and you still wouldnt've fixed the Fighter's main problems: battlefield mobility & action economy.

To fix melee without ToB, you must introduce features that allow a warrior to:
1. Move and attack
2. Move and do other things
3. Do more in a combat turn than his opponents.
4. Beat his opponents to the punch.
5. Have a real and significant lasting power (e.g. poor Will saves with no inherent modifiers means that Mr. fighter can be easily turned off like a switch).
6. Have alleviated prereqs to combat feats.
7. Have superior combat options over others.
8. Have way more combat options than others - way way more (THF, TWF, Archery, Reach and maneuvers, as many as possible as soon as possible).

[danzibr]

This is an enjoyable read so far. Keep up the nice work!

Some formatting would be nice.

[Rogue Shadows]

Interestingly, you seem to have done basically what I did, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210972) and yet at the same time not quite as much.

[Suteinu]

Yeah, formatting ... Forgive me; this is my first such endevour.

1: I thought that I had that covered. See, I cut & pasted onto the thread from my own file; apparently, all my formatting didn't register. I'll fix it as soon as I have the time. Sorry!

2: Yes, Zhentarim Fighter, of course, I mean, that's what I said (how embarrassing) ... As for the fluff aspect, I think that can be dealt with between player & DM easily enough. Besides, as a wise Dragon pointed out, they do tend to be arbitrary.

3: To the Rogue in the Shadows: I've done quite a bit of research on this 'ere forum, and it is just possible that either we've both ripped-off the same sources, OR that I have ripped you off :smallbiggrin:! As I said, I am standing on the shoulders of Giants in the Playground. A bibliography here would be a thread unto itself. Can we just chalk it up to "Great minds think alike?". I do think it shows the same thing that is being discovered in the martial arts world as Western MA is rediscovered: if something works, it is used, no matter where in the world it originated.

4: Yeah, Nonsi, I DID in fact forget Elusive Attack. Thanks. I'm not trying to completely re-work the class, though, beyond established ACF's. I think some of your (very good) suggestions can be handled by feats like Shocktrooper and Combat Reflexes. `least, that's what I'm gonna try to do ...

There are also some good ideas up there (^) about comparing and contrasting the Fighter to other classes from edition to edition, but I'm probably not going to do that, simply on account of my lack of tallent in that area. A mathemagician I am not, and will leave such things to those who know about what they write. As a certain Dr. Franklin once said, "It is better to remain silent and let others think you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Thanks to everyone for your input. I'll get to the formatting and corrections later today, and hopefuly get the first build or two by the end of this week.

[Realms of Chaos]

Wait a moment... Leadership was a class feature? Specifically for fighters?

[Suteinu]

In A-editions 1 & 2, usually about 9th level, a few of the core classes allowed a character to Attract Followers. For Fighters, these were usually soldiers, for Magic Users, apprentices, for Thieves, the makings of a thieves' guild or gang. So yes, essentially, it was Leadership as a class feature, though not restricted to Fighters.

[Suteinu]

The Strength Build is posted (^)! Let the repair begin!

Next I'm going to tackle the Intelligence Build. I've got a plan ...

[Zireael]

I loved the introduction the most! The builds are neat too.

[ArcturusV]

Ah, the good old days when 9th level meant "I'm thinking of retiring soon". How I missed them, almost pains me to see groups who say things like they won't play anything lower than 9th-12th level anymore.

Keep up the good work.

[Suteinu]

Intelligence Fighter is up! Next time: the Tough-Guy!