Replacing my Motherboard

[Squark]

With the absence of helpful explanations from search engines, I thought I might as well check to see if the people of the playground have any advice for me on this topic.

So, long story short, my desktop's motherboard has a short. Everything else is fine, but the motherboard is going to have to be replaced. However, talking with the service we had look at the computer after my dad and I gave up has left me with a couple of questions I need answered before we spend several hundred dollars.

1) With replacing the motherboard, is it a simple replacement like replacing the video card was (Admittedly, this was replacing it with the same version), or will there be more complicated processes involved?
2) What are the virtues of replacing the dead motherboard with an identical (apparently somewhat obscure) copy as opposed to replacing it with a brand new one (Something that puzzled me when talking over the phone with the guy at the store was why they needed a motherboard of the same make)?
3) Is this something that I can do myself, or should I leave this to a professional?

[Grinner]

1) How simple is simple? Procedurally, it's a bit like installing a new video card, except you don't need to install a driver along with it. However, you do have to do a lot more work.

2) Aside from cost? It may not be exactly identical, so it may not fit the rest of your existing parts. Though if it's compatible with your CPU and RAM and has the right slot(s) for your video card(s), then you should be alright.

3) It's not hard, but it's time-consuming and possibly risky, depending on how careful you are. The real question is,"Do you want to take that risk on yourself, or pay someone to?" You could save a considerable amount of money...

Edit: Could you give us the specs of the computer and the replacement motherboard?

[Squark]

Right... Okay, not sure if I can find it...

*one search later for the service order to see if it has the model number, followed by a search for the PC on google*

Right, copy-pasted from the manufactoror's site, although the video card was replaced a year or two ago with one of the same model but twice the memory.
Operating System1 Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium
Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit
Platform1 Intel® Core™2 Quad processor
Intel Core2 Duo processor
Intel Pentium® Dual Core processor
Intel G33 Express chipset
System Memory1 Up to 8 GB of DDR2 667/800 MHz SDRAM (dual-channel support on four DIMMs)
Hard Drive Serial ATA hard disk up to 1 TB1 per 3.5-inch drive
Graphics ATI Radeon™ HD 4850 graphics
DirectX 10
Shader Model 4.0
ATI Hybrid Graphics
ATI Avivo HD
ATI PowerPlay
ATI SurroundView

Audio Embedded high-definition audio with 7.1-channel audio support
Networking 10/100 Ethernet
Power Supply 300 W / 400 W / 500 W

Sorry if that doesn't make much sense.

[Grinner]

Sorry, I can't really tell you anything more without the replacement motherboard's specs. Unless you decide to replace it yourself, you'll need to just trust the technician.

Nice computer, though. :smallsmile:

[Starwulf]

The thing about the motherboard, that makes it different then replacing other parts, is every other part you would normally install, sits on the motherboard. So you'll have to remove all your ram, your cpu, your graphics card, disconnect your hard-drive, your power supply, any fans and heatsinks you have installed, and then place them onto the new motherboard. As far as actually putting the MOBO in, it's not that hard at all, you have a couple of screws that hold the mobo in place, that's it.

[factotum]

As for the reason why he might be suggesting an identical make and model--it means you might be able to get away without flattening and reinstalling your operating system. If you change something as fundamental as the motherboard then it's entirely possible your machine won't even boot due to having the wrong hard disk interface drivers! (Vista and Windows 7 are rather better about that than XP was, mind you--I was able to swap my motherboard and CPU and it just redetected all the new hardware and got on with it).

[Emmerask]

With the absence of helpful explanations from search engines, I thought I might as well check to see if the people of the playground have any advice for me on this topic.

So, long story short, my desktop's motherboard has a short. Everything else is fine, but the motherboard is going to have to be replaced. However, talking with the service we had look at the computer after my dad and I gave up has left me with a couple of questions I need answered before we spend several hundred dollars.

1) With replacing the motherboard, is it a simple replacement like replacing the video card was (Admittedly, this was replacing it with the same version), or will there be more complicated processes involved?
2) What are the virtues of replacing the dead motherboard with an identical (apparently somewhat obscure) copy as opposed to replacing it with a brand new one (Something that puzzled me when talking over the phone with the guy at the store was why they needed a motherboard of the same make)?
3) Is this something that I can do myself, or should I leave this to a professional?

Well since you have replaced other parts of the computer you should most likely be fine replacing the motherboard too.
It is a bit more involved since you have to remove every part and then put it into the new mainboard. Thankfully though the jumper part where you really could mess things up (cpu clock speed jumpers etc) is completely gone.

The only thing that is a bit annoying is the tower mainboard connection cables but in most cases its now pretty well explained.

As for replacing it with the same model, doing so makes sure that your other components still work with it and that you most likely don´t need to reinstall windows (as has been said).

If its the first time with a mainboard I would ask a friend who is experienced if he/she could assist you, it really isn´t that hard though maybe I´m just thinking that because I´ve done it for a long time now.
I would say take a look at your old pcs insides and if you don´t feel confident you can do it then let a shop do it.

[Brother Oni]

Only thing I will add to all the other advice given here is be careful when you're mounting your motherboard into the case. If you miss a washer (resulting in the MB shorting out against the case) or over tighten the screws (potentially deforming the motherboard slightly), your computer may refuse to boot until you've located and fixed the problem.

A good test that I found useful (although it's probably overkill for you), is to assemble your motherboard outside the case (rest it on the box it came in) and plug in each component one by one (CPU+Graphics card -> RAM -> everything else), booting up the computer inbetween.

Once you know it all works, then you can take them all off and fit the MB into the case.

[KillianHawkeye]

Replacing a motherboard is slightly more involved than replacing a mere graphics card or other common add-on. You basically have to disconnect every internal component within your computer, and depending on what kind of case you have you probably will have to remove more of it to extract the mobo. It is definitely more time consuming than replacing something simple like RAM or an expansion card.

I recommend having a chart of how everything is connected so you don't make any mistakes when plugging everything back into the new motherboard.

[Brother Oni]

I recommend having a chart of how everything is connected so you don't make any mistakes when plugging everything back into the new motherboard.

Seconding this - keeping hold of the manual so you know how to plug in things like the power button is vital. Luckily many manuals are online now so if you have a second computer you can generally work with them side by side and google any errors that crop up at the time.

[Krazzman]

Another advice I haven't read here so far is: Check if it is compatible with your SDD/HDD. I have still a 500GB HDD lying on my desk...unused since I am too lazy to update my bios...

[Squark]

Replacing a motherboard is slightly more involved than replacing a mere graphics card or other common add-on. You basically have to disconnect every internal component within your computer, and depending on what kind of case you have you probably will have to remove more of it to extract the mobo. It is definitely more time consuming than replacing something simple like RAM or an expansion card.

I recommend having a chart of how everything is connected so you don't make any mistakes when plugging everything back into the new motherboard.

Well, I already did pretty much that while we were trying to figure out the problem, as we tried a replacement power supply (And then returned it when that didn't work) and removing almost all the non-essential components, and then we cleaned out the heat sink to make sure that wasn't the problem. So I have learned how to do that, and my Dad does know how this sort of thing works as well, although neither of us have actually replaced a motherboard (Replaced almost literally everything else on an older computer, though)


Another advice I haven't read here so far is: Check if it is compatible with your SDD/HDD. I have still a 500GB HDD lying on my desk...unused since I am too lazy to update my bios...

SDD/HDD? Err... Do you mean the CD Drive, RAM, and Hard Drive?

Thanks for the help everyone. I'll contact the shop today and ask a few more questions.

[Brother Oni]

SDD/HDD? Err... Do you mean the CD Drive, RAM, and Hard Drive?


SSD = Solid State Drive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive), HDD = Hard Disc Drive. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive)

SSDs are the new fangled hard drives with no moving parts thus have faster performance and (in theory) should last longer. The downside is that they've got smaller capacity than old school hard drives and cost significantly more.

Edit: fixed typo. :smalltongue:

[Aedilred]

Since the thread's here, I might as well ask the question. I have a currently unknown problem with my desktop, where it will turn on but not boot (it won't even get to POST). Obviously there's something wrong with the hardware, which I'm hoping will be as "simple" as a component I need to replace (I've checked all the connections and they seem to be fine). I've been putting off doing it on grounds of expense but also because I know it could be a real pain in the neck and I don't want to open it up unless I know I can finish the job.

If it turns out to be the CPU, which in the pit of my stomach I fear is the most likely problem, how (technically) straightforward is that going to be to replace? Can I just switch it out for a fresh one and off we go, or will I need to get someone who knows what they're doing to get the system running again? I have friends who are capable of doing that, but I'd rather know before I get started.

[OracleofWuffing]

SDD = Solid State Drive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive), HDD = Hard Disc Drive. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive)
:smallconfused: That's a silly way to abbreviate "State." :smalltongue:


If it turns out to be the CPU, which in the pit of my stomach I fear is the most likely problem, how (technically) straightforward is that going to be to replace?
Well, specifics can't be given out unless we know more about your computer. Generally speaking, once you have access to the processor, you typically lift up a latch, and just lift the processor off the motherboard. Now, depending on your computer, you might have to unscrew (and potentially pry off because it'll be glued to the processor with thermal paste) a heatsink before you have access to the latch. The big "technical" part would probably be just locating a processor that uses the same socket type as the one you're already using.

Here's a video (http://youtu.be/-MMw8SwZVkQ) I stole off of Newegg as far as what installing a contemporary processor looks like.

[Grinner]

If it turns out to be the CPU, which in the pit of my stomach I fear is the most likely problem, how (technically) straightforward is that going to be to replace? Can I just switch it out for a fresh one and off we go, or will I need to get someone who knows what they're doing to get the system running again? I have friends who are capable of doing that, but I'd rather know before I get started.

As long as you can get to the processor, it should be a fairly straightforward process to replace it. Just make sure that you get a processor of the same socket type.

Also, it might be advisable to get one of the same kind, or you could end up tripping an OS hardware check, depending on your OS.

[Aedilred]

If I recall rightly, it's an Intel Core Duo of some description, so hopefully it shouldn't be a nightmare to find a replacement. I have all the documentation in a cupboard; I'll go and look it up, but that's reassuring, thanks. I'm still hoping it doesn't come to that, but it's good to know it hopefully shouldn't be a nightmare if it does.

Edit: Here we go, it's an Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 S775; there's definitely a heatsink to move, too, because I remember installing the wretched thing.

[Erloas]

Since the thread's here, I might as well ask the question. I have a currently unknown problem with my desktop, where it will turn on but not boot (it won't even get to POST).
I would actually doubt it is the CPU. Given the very little actual information you have given us, total system failures in order of likelihood is power supply, motherboard, RAM, then CPU.

Are the fans spinning up at all? On the case, PSU, or motherboard? Are you hearing any beeps when the system starts up?
And a simple question, was the computer moved near the time it stopped working? Sometimes just re-seating some of the primary components can do the trick if it was moved recently and something happened to work loose.

How old is the computer? An older motherboard or CPU could be difficult enough to find to not be worth fixing. RAM is the cheapest fix, though even that might not be really cheap if it is 2+ generations old.

[Aedilred]

I would actually doubt it is the CPU. Given the very little actual information you have given us, total system failures in order of likelihood is power supply, motherboard, RAM, then CPU.

Are the fans spinning up at all? On the case, PSU, or motherboard? Are you hearing any beeps when the system starts up?
And a simple question, was the computer moved near the time it stopped working? Sometimes just re-seating some of the primary components can do the trick if it was moved recently and something happened to work loose.

How old is the computer? An older motherboard or CPU could be difficult enough to find to not be worth fixing. RAM is the cheapest fix, though even that might not be really cheap if it is 2+ generations old.
It's been a while since I last started it... *checks* It starts up and at least some of the fans are going, although iirc when I checked with the case open it didn't look like the CPU fan was going. There is one beep, but the monitor is never engaged, and it doesn't look like any of the components are launched apart from the DVD player, which starts up and spins, then stops, starts again, and runs on that cycle indefinitely. Again, iirc, I disconnected the power to the DVD drive and that didn't make a difference. I've also been over all the components and they're seated fine.

The computer had been moved about a week prior to this problem appearing; there were historic issues with one of the internal hard drive that were fixed, then for about a week it ran better than ever, but when I went to turn it back on it wouldn't. I don't think it's (entirely!) a PSU problem, having experienced them before (it burned through its first one like you wouldn't believe, so I gave it a substantial upgrade).

The computer was built in late 2007/early 2008 if I remember rightly, so it's not all that new, but the components weren't bottom-end either and it's spent at least 18 months of its lifespan completely unused, so it's much fresher than I'd expect from a machine of that age... when it runs.

Bear in mind I'm not asking the forum for a diagnosis per se - I know how frustrating it can be from both ends to try to do that sort of thing - just an idea of how much of a pain in the neck it would be to replace the CPU if it came to it (I know how much of a pain it would be to replace the motherboard).

[Erloas]

If the CPU fan is not spinning that could be it, some motherboards have a failsafe where if the CPU fan is not running the system won't come on completely. Though I think most of the time it just doesn't ramp up the CPU speeds fully.
An easy check is to pull out the video card (does it have onboard video as well?) and see if the beep(s) change. If that doesn't then try pulling the RAM and starting the system again, see if the beeps change. If the beeps don't change at all with the video card and memory removed then the motherboard is probably dead, if the beeps do change you can look up the beep codes to try and figure out more.

[factotum]

:smallconfused: That's a silly way to abbreviate "State." :smalltongue:

Which is why they don't do it...the actual acronym for a solid state drive is SSD; I guess SDD was a typo (or misunderstanding) on Krazzman's part.

[Krazzman]

Which is why they don't do it...the actual acronym for a solid state drive is SSD; I guess SDD was a typo (or misunderstanding) on Krazzman's part.

Typo... you know you sit there tiping it in and are in your thoughts already at HDD and instead of SSD hit SDD there too... I feel ashamed now...
Another thing is: SSD's should be used for your Operating system (and that only), if you can afford them... I heard from guys that managed to boot their system in... I think it was unter 10 seconds. Anyway they are better suited for stuff that doesn't change much/often.

Still hope this helped.

[Don Julio Anejo]

1. If you replace your motherboard with the one that has the same chipset (in your case, G33), then you can literally just swap out parts.

2. If you change the chipset, then 95% likely you will need to reinstall windows (don't have to format, but have to do a fresh install) unless you can boot into it.

3. If you can boot into Windows (such as, from a different computer), you can also run a sysprep command to prepare your OS for component change. What that does is generalizes all the drivers and reinstalls them afterward.

4. Yep, SSD's are awesome :smile: It take me longer to pass BIOS than to load into Windows, and around 15 or so seconds in total.

5. I'd honestly do a full system upgrade by now. LGA 775 is pretty out of date, an E6750 is already significantly worse than many other 775 CPU's like E8400/Q6600, and many boards have trouble with stuff like AHCI. You'd be better off buying a midrange Z77 board, an i3/i5 (ex: i3-3225 is pretty nice for an entry-level CPU, has 2 cores and HT and only costs ~130; an i5-3570k costs $230 and can be overclocked by another 30%) and some new RAM. This way you also won't have to wonder if its the motherboard or the CPU that's broken :smallamused: