Munchkinned Warlock?

[GreatWyrmGold]

For a story I'm planning, I need a munchkinned warlock.

Basically, the idea is that the character was planning to be munchkinesque (and more than a little 4th Wall aware and such), but he got bored before he completed his wizard apprenticeship and just sold his soul for magical power.
Warlocks aren't exactly game-breaking material.

Basically, I'm looking for some warlock builds which maximize their effectiveness. The builds should follow the following guidelines:
1. The final product should focus on warlock powers if possible. Having a warlock/rogue which focuses on Hideous Blow/Sneak Attacks or something would work, but a Warlock/Druid focusing on Wild Shape wouldn't.
2. No full, Vancian casting classes may be major focuses of the class. A dip in something like Bard? Acceptable. Not much more, though.
3. No classes that take more effort than being a Warlock (ie ones with a Starting Age in the rightmost column). The character's too lazy to work on those.
4. Try to make it workable from levels 1 to 20. It doesn't have to be minmax-wizard-quality, but levels 1-10 shouldn't be spent on abilities that make the warlock useless by level 15.
5. While it's perfectly okay to say something like "Focus on Incantation X and use Tactic Y," I'd like it if some detail was provided. (I suck at optimization...)
6. Please make sure you explain how to use the character to its greatest advantage. I don't want to write the story, only to hear "The warlock's build is great, but a REAL munchkin would..."


Thanks to all who help.

[toapat]

lost tradition (warlock, constitution)

get your invoations from Con

[Yukitsu]

You could go hellglaive warlock/ToB something. Hellfire warlock prestige class, 1 level of binder, warlock, and something from the ToB to round out their combat skills. I can't honestly remember if you can use hellfire on an eldritch glaive mind you, but I'm pretty sure you can.

[GreatWyrmGold]

lost tradition (warlock, constitution)

get your invoations from Con
Is that some Complete Arcana feat I missed and if not where is it from?


You could go hellglaive warlock/ToB something. Hellfire warlock prestige class, 1 level of binder, warlock, and something from the ToB to round out their combat skills. I can't honestly remember if you can use hellfire on an eldritch glaive mind you, but I'm pretty sure you can.
Where's Binder from and where could I find a PDF of the Tome of Battle?

[Urpriest]

Most of the more Munchkinly things you can do with a Warlock involve Hellfire Warlock (Fiendish Codex II). By itself it's a great way to add damage to an otherwise lacklustre progression. If you interpret prestige classes like Legacy Champion (Weapons of Legacy) as letting you increase your Hellfire Warlock level past 3 then suddenly it becomes much more powerful. A really munchkinly way to do this sort of thing is to use Bloodlines. These are quite controversial, but if you want a fairly powerful interpretation look up PlzBreakMyCampAn.

[toapat]

Is that some Complete Arcana feat I missed and if not where is it from?

3rd party 3.0 Bastards & Bloodlines, it is considered one of the most munchkiny feats there is, and i believe it can be applied to warlocks, although i havent read the rules governing locks

[awa]

I have heard mixed things on it's legality but the pigeon bomber (not a full build mind you)
uses corpse crafter feats to get exploding pigeons that self destruct by ramming the ground. The advantage of this tactic are
1) you deal 2d6 damge per level
2) the damge is area of effect and can be divided up at will
3) by creating extra pigeons before battle you can start the fight off with a huge mass then during your turn summon even more for an extra strong initial round.
4) if your undead the explosions heal you
5) your not attacking anyone so you can combine this with invisibility
6) if your undead the explosions heal you instead
it comes together at level 6 at the only investment are a few feats so it could easily be combined with other munchkin builds.

technically bats are slightly better becuase a bats swarms has 5000 bats in it which makes them even cheaper then pigeons but pigeon bomber sounds funnier

[Spuddles]

True munchkin build would be shape soulmeld: strongheart vest (magic of incarnum feat), 3 levels hellfire warlock (fiendish codex 2), and 10 levels legacy champion (weapons of legacy). And a major bloodline.

It doesn't really come online until a level you can start picking up hellfire warlock. Basically you gain one 2.5d6 damage to your eldritch blast per level (from your first level of hellfire warlock) and like double that if using a bloodline.

This requires rather questionable readings of strongheart vest, legacy champion, and bloodline progressions.

The only problem is that it comes on a little late, and the exp costs of bloodlines makes getting there take even longer.

[GreatWyrmGold]

3rd party 3.0 Bastards & Bloodlines, it is considered one of the most munchkiny feats there is, and i believe it can be applied to warlocks, although i havent read the rules governing locks
Ah. I have a PDF of that book.
...Somewhere. Well, on my tablet. What's that site I found all those 3.5 PDFs on?


I have heard mixed things on it's legality but the pigeon bomber (not a full build mind you)
uses corpse crafter feats to get exploding pigeons that self destruct by ramming the ground. The advantage of this tactic are
1) you deal 2d6 damge per level
2) the damge is area of effect and can be divided up at will
3) by creating extra pigeons before battle you can start the fight off with a huge mass then during your turn summon even more for an extra strong initial round.
4) if your undead the explosions heal you
5) your not attacking anyone so you can combine this with invisibility
6) if your undead the explosions heal you instead
it comes together at level 6 at the only investment are a few feats so it could easily be combined with other munchkin builds.

technically bats are slightly better becuase a bats swarms has 5000 bats in it which makes them even cheaper then pigeons but pigeon bomber sounds funnier
That sounds neat. Where's Corpse Crafter from? Liber Mortis?

[Malroth]

Warlock-> Ur Priest -> Eldritch Desciple get dark invocations, 9th lv cleric spells, can steal spell like abilities from others and can do some really nasty things like attach Harm as an extra effect to an eldritch cone.

[Spuddles]

I have heard mixed things on it's legality but the pigeon bomber (not a full build mind you)
uses corpse crafter feats to get exploding pigeons that self destruct by ramming the ground. The advantage of this tactic are
1) you deal 2d6 damge per level
2) the damge is area of effect and can be divided up at will
3) by creating extra pigeons before battle you can start the fight off with a huge mass then during your turn summon even more for an extra strong initial round.
4) if your undead the explosions heal you
5) your not attacking anyone so you can combine this with invisibility
6) if your undead the explosions heal you instead
it comes together at level 6 at the only investment are a few feats so it could easily be combined with other munchkin builds.

technically bats are slightly better becuase a bats swarms has 5000 bats in it which makes them even cheaper then pigeons but pigeon bomber sounds funnier

Wrong your.

[OracleofSilence]

Its not a questionable reading of Strongheart Vest. That at least is reasonable. some people (quiet reasonably) think its unfair though.

[Story]

Where's Corpse Crafter from? Liber Mortis?

Correct. It's actually a whole line of feats, but you only need two IIRC if you just want the exploding part.

[toapat]

Ah. I have a PDF of that book.
...Somewhere. Well, on my tablet. What's that site I found all those 3.5 PDFs on?

lets say that you got them from DrivethruRPG. And you probably didnt actually get the Dragonlance rulebooks

[awa]

"That sounds neat. Where's Corpse Crafter from? Liber Mortis?"

yes you need corpse crafter which gives some minor boosts to undead and then Destruction Retribution which causes your undead to explode on death.

the damge is based on the hit dice of the undead but the pigeons have only one hd so they just deal d6 dam in a 10 foot spread they get a save dc 15 for half and it does not scale so don't bother using it on things with evasion but even if they make the save its still effectively 2d3 per level. Its great for clearing out low level mooks

[Spuddles]

Its not a questionable reading of Strongheart Vest. That at least is reasonable. some people (quiet reasonably) think its unfair though.

If the damage is prevented, you can't use hellfire. Strongheaet vest absorbs damage. The rules issue is unclear, unlike the straightforwardness of naeberius bind.

[Kane0]

Warlock-> Ur Priest -> Eldritch Desciple get dark invocations, 9th lv cleric spells, can steal spell like abilities from others and can do some really nasty things like attach Harm as an extra effect to an eldritch cone.

This intrigues me. Could you elaborate please?

[Sugashane]

Pandyman helped me a lot with this. I wanted to make a Diplomancer Warlock, and it also helps explain some of the ways to optimize it pretty well.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14277542#post14277542

[GreatWyrmGold]

lets say that you got them from DrivethruRPG. And you probably didnt actually get the Dragonlance rulebooks
Rhetorical question I'm wondering why I posted.

Other ideas sound neat, but the Ur-Priest sounds a bit close to "relying on non-warlock abilities" to fit.

[gorfnab]

This intrigues me. Could you elaborate please?
Hellfire Ur-lock
Warlock 4/ Binder (ToM) 1/ Ur-priest (CD) 2/ Eldritch Disciple (CM) 2/ Hellfire Warlock 3/ Eldritch Disciple 8 {or Eldritch Discple 2/ Mindbender (CA) with Mindsight (LoM) feat 1/ Eldritch Disciple 5}

The Naberious vestige (ToM) heals the Con damage from the Hellfire. The spell Divine Power + Eldritch Glaive invocation works nicely for melee combat.

[nedz]

The OP's criteria (2) and (3) seem to rule out most T1 builds, which are what a real munchkin would choose.
Ur Priest based builds would also seem to fall foul of these also

Does something along the lines of these fit the bill ?
Warlock 1/Sorcerer 4/Eldritch Theurge 10/ X 5
Warlock 1/Spontaneous Cleric 4/Eldritch Disciple 10/ X 5
No point developing these further if they are of no interest.

(1) could be met with Scout 5 / Warlock 15
With the Improved Skirmish feat that's +4d6 Blast and a few goodies and a lot of skills. Not very exiting though.

Adding Half-Fey is solid — +2 LA but lots of Cha based SLAs, and better flight.

[Malroth]

Well the Fluff of Ur-Priest is that your character is stealing divine power others earned. and Fits greatly with the story of one who sold his soul for easy power. as for the Tier 1 caster thing, yeah it is that.

[Mato]

Take the Hit The Deck! Feat (Munchkin player's guide) With this Feat you can, once per Session, you can draw a single card from your Munchkin deck.

Bring nothing but Go Up A Level Cards. :biggrin:

[Snowbluff]

Spuddles, Legacy Champ to progress HFlock stuff is legal, since the abilities state that they come up every level.

[kardar233]

If you can swing Eldritch Claws and Beast Strike from Dragon #358 and #355 respectively, you can make what I call the WarBardLock, or possibly just Mr. Buckets of Dice.

It runs along these lines:
Desert Kobold
Warlock6/Bard1/Whirling Frenzy Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian1/Warblade1/Hellfire Warlock3/Legacy Champion 8
Important feats are Dragonwrought, Improved Unarmed Strike, Eldritch Claws, Beast Strike, Dragonfire Inspiration (possibly Draconic Heritage: Pyroclasmic Dragon) Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike.

Basically, use items to boost your Eldritch Blast and Inspire Courage, then stack Dragonfire Inspiration and Hellfire Claw damage to swing for buckets of damage a half-dozen times a turn.

[Snowbluff]

... How will you be getting IC/DFI past 1?

Also, HFlock doesn't work with EC.

How about dip Wizard1, then enter Prestige Bard to get a functional version of your build.

[silverwolfer]

3rd party 3.0 Bastards & Bloodlines, it is considered one of the most munchkiny feats there is, and i believe it can be applied to warlocks, although i havent read the rules governing locks


Well duh it is third party....if you are using third party, just save yourself money and use homebrew.

[Jallorn]

Here's a really fun one: Warlock/Scout with the Dark Creature template from Tome of Magic (or Shadowdancer or other easy form of Hide in Plain Sight) and Shot on the Run. You dash from shadow to shadow, blasting people with magic in the process and being extremely hard to hit besides.

Especially fun once you pick up Fell Flight, and never need to worry about attacks of opportunity again. Serves as a very hard to hit damage dealer, as well as being able to commit a couple forms of utility magic, and the skills of a scout. Helps if the character is human for able learner.

[MrLemon]

... How will you be getting IC/DFI past 1?
Song of the Heart Feat (ECS, IIRC) gives +1, as does the swift action 1st level bard spell Inspirational boost (SC).
Also: Items.

There was a whole Handbook about this, unfortunately on MinMaxBoards, so it's not availible right now

[Socratov]

so, you want batman as a warlock eh?

Human
Warlock 12/Chameleon 2/Binder 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/Warlock 2

feat prereqs: able learner at lvl 1, rest is skill prereqs and speaking infernal in one way or another.

You can now make anything, overcharge those items with hellfire (2nd ability), heal ability damage, diplomance, cast hellfire blasts, and if you are not crafting you can always have the invocation ready you need (with some forethought and preparation).

Lost tradition to key your invoking to INT and you put all in int and con allowing you to craft just about anything (and use it), get lots of skillpoints and generally be awesome.

Oh, and before another argunment breaks out over Strongheart Vest and naberius and hellfire, there is a vague wording on what is raw and what is fluff and the amount of influence they have over each other and what counts as immune. swing by your DM becuase there is no straight answer. I generally perefer naberius becuase I like the fluff of hellfire and to quote Psyren as a fiendish soul connoisseur:

I see Incarnum as being like tofu. Sure you can shape it to look like a steak, and even add steak flavoring, but it's never going to be a steak.

and I love steak when it's made from steak, the whole steak and nothing but the stake (it's done when it stops moo-ing and bleeding in the pan aka: rare)

YMMV and people have pretty much agreed to it being a personal choice in play.

naberius is completely rules legal since it repairs the damage each round. make sure you have an odd con score since else you will be constantly changing your CON mod and thus HP, saves, skills etc.

Ok. so how is this build a batman build?
1) you can craft anything with Imbue item. yes, anything. yes even those things not meant for you, you can still craft them by using the floating feat.
2)use can use thos items easily. You can take 10 on UMD, like, ALL THE TIME. so no problems there
3) You can use your hellfire over charge or somethign or other (2nd lvl hellfire warlock ability) to add metamagic on the fly for no extra cost. Remember you can craft metamagic rods as well :smallamused:
4) you can pick an invocation to choice to prepare. the higher level you are, the higher the invocation can be (as you reprepare it and you only need to qualify for it, no level reference), so it stays relevant.
5) everything is more or less at will and warlocks have some cary invocations, especially if you have a high castingstat to lack up those DC's. Otherwise there is still Edvards freezing spiked hentai tentacles of forced intrusion of doom of- you get the idea... Oh, and did I mention everything is more or less at will. Imagine laying down a whole battlefield of those :smallcool:

Now I think of it, you will probably be more like superman and Batman doing the fusion dance form DBZ. How awesome is that! :smallcool:

I'll give you a hint, it's aweosme enough to draw mr. Torque's attention. yes you should look him up on google.

[nedz]

Ah, I'd forgotten about Schneaky's Chameleon trick

Half Fey 2 / Chameleon 2 / Warlock 16 (not in this order)

Half Fey gets you Dex and Cha bumps, lots of SLAs and flight.
Chameleon 2 gets you a floating feat which you can use for Extra Invocation during adventuring days or Craft X during downtime.

or, if it's just more blast you are looking for

Half Fey 2 / Chameleon 2 / Warlock 13 / Hell Fire Warlock 3

[Mato]

Song of the Heart Feat (ECS, IIRC) gives +1, as does the swift action 1st level bard spell Inspirational boost (SC).
Also: Items.

There was a whole Handbook about this, unfortunately on MinMaxBoards, so it's not availible right nowYou can still access several of the threads by google cache.

btw, instead of losing HD/BAB/Saves/Skill_Points/Feats/Ability_Score_Increases in order to pick up Bloodline levels, use Uncanny Trickster. Something like Warlock 7 / Binder 1 / Uncanny Trickster 1 / Hellfire Warlock 3 / Uncanny Trickster(hellfire) +2 / Legacy Champion(trickster) 6 gets Dark Invocations, ten effective levels of Hellfire, seven free Skill Tricks, and 20HD.

[Urpriest]

You can still access several of the threads by google cache.

btw, instead of losing HD/BAB/Saves/Skill_Points/Feats/Ability_Score_Increases in order to pick up Bloodline levels, use Uncanny Trickster. Something like Warlock 7 / Binder 1 / Uncanny Trickster 1 / Hellfire Warlock 3 / Uncanny Trickster(hellfire) +2 / Legacy Champion(trickster) 6 gets Dark Invocations, ten effective levels of Hellfire, seven free Skill Tricks, and 20HD.

You're forgetting that the character is a munchkin. Likely he uses the interpretation of bloodlines that makes them not cost HD.

[Snowbluff]

Song of the Heart Feat (ECS, IIRC) gives +1, as does the swift action 1st level bard spell Inspirational boost (SC).
Also: Items.

There was a whole Handbook about this, unfortunately on MinMaxBoards, so it's not availible right now

So, you'll be at like, 3. By the way, I've read the handbook.

This doesn't fly with me. I'll post a Bardlock.

[Fyermind]

My vote goes from getting to warlock 12 (as a clawlock probably if you want to dish damage) so you can craft items. Binder 1 hellfire warlock 3 and chameleon 2 are all great after that. that gets you to level 18. the remaining two levels are great for LA or filler warlock+2 or bloodlines or magical trickster for hellfire warlock.

The build looks like a standard warlock for levels 1 to 12. Then it sits in status until level 14 as it takes two levels of chameleon. Then it becomes a defacto artificer with the ability to make any magic item ever. Once it has used that to double (or more) it's WBL for custom items to make it perfect. If you are the DM you can get exactly the custom items you need. Look at the cost reduction handbook for ways to make all the items exactly what you want for your use only. This would make a terrifying ironman style level 14. From there on it will be boosting the damage output of eldritch blast.

[Mato]

So, you'll be at like, 3. By the way, I've read the handbook.

This doesn't fly with me. I'll post a Bardlock.+3?

Depends. If Chaotic-Good aligned and has three Feat slots open you can net +8d6 Dragonfire
(+1 (base) + 1 (badge of valor) + 1 (inspirational boost) + 1 (song of heart) + 1 (masterwork instrument, lute I think) * 2 (words of creation) )

[Andezzar]

Chameleon 2 gets you a floating feat which you can use for Extra Invocation during adventuring days or Craft X during downtime.What's a floating feat? If you mean retraining, you can only do that once per level up. Hard to switch back and forth between adventures that way.

[Spuddles]

What's a floating feat? If you mean retraining, you can only do that once per level up. Hard to switch back and forth between adventures that way.

He means the chameleon class ability that gives you a bonus feat you can change daily.

[nedz]

He means the chameleon class ability that gives you a bonus feat you can change daily.

Yes, every munchkin should have one of these :smallbiggrin:

[Snowbluff]

+3?

Depends. If Chaotic-Good aligned and has three Feat slots open you can net +8d6 Dragonfire
(+1 (base) + 1 (badge of valor) + 1 (inspirational boost) + 1 (song of heart) + 1 (masterwork instrument, lute I think) * 2 (words of creation) )

It's an approximation. Logistically speaking, You don't have your hands free to keep playing a lute. The first round is not your own at this point.

Since HFlock does not work for Clawlocks (A Glaivelock would work, IIRC), you have the levels to take Prestige Bard, which adds quite a few valuable IC and skill points. Battledancer1/Lock3/Wizard/PrCBard10/SeekerofSong2 would be a pretty simple, and much better way of building this.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Personaly, I'd replace that level of Wizard for Beguiler. It's a spontaneous caster, thus more lazy friendly, and assuming Fractional BaB and Saves, allows you to keep your medium BaB progression.

[GreatWyrmGold]

If you can swing Eldritch Claws and Beast Strike from Dragon #358 and #355 respectively, you can make what I call the WarBardLock, or possibly just Mr. Buckets of Dice.

It runs along these lines:
Desert Kobold
Warlock6/Bard1/Whirling Frenzy Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian1/Warblade1/Hellfire Warlock3/Legacy Champion 8
Important feats are Dragonwrought, Improved Unarmed Strike, Eldritch Claws, Beast Strike, Dragonfire Inspiration (possibly Draconic Heritage: Pyroclasmic Dragon) Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike.

Basically, use items to boost your Eldritch Blast and Inspire Courage, then stack Dragonfire Inspiration and Hellfire Claw damage to swing for buckets of damage a half-dozen times a turn.
Sounds neat, but I'd prefer to have access to the rules on the stuff I use, and I'm not even sure where to get all that, so...


Here's a really fun one: Warlock/Scout with the Dark Creature template from Tome of Magic (or Shadowdancer or other easy form of Hide in Plain Sight) and Shot on the Run. You dash from shadow to shadow, blasting people with magic in the process and being extremely hard to hit besides.

Especially fun once you pick up Fell Flight, and never need to worry about attacks of opportunity again. Serves as a very hard to hit damage dealer, as well as being able to commit a couple forms of utility magic, and the skills of a scout. Helps if the character is human for able learner.
This looks interesting. Since I don't think I have ToM, what all does the Shadow Creature template do?


so, you want batman as a warlock eh?
Since when was Batman a lazy munchkin?



Human
Warlock 12/Chameleon 2/Binder 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/Warlock 2
feat prereqs: able learner at lvl 1, rest is skill prereqs and speaking infernal in one way or another.
You can now make anything, overcharge those items with hellfire (2nd ability), heal ability damage, diplomance, cast hellfire blasts, and if you are not crafting you can always have the invocation ready you need (with some forethought and preparation).
Lost tradition to key your invoking to INT and you put all in int and con allowing you to craft just about anything (and use it), get lots of skillpoints and generally be awesome.

Neat.


Ok. so how is this build a batman build?
I'm almost certain we're talking about different kinda of Batman now.



1) you can craft anything with Imbue item. yes, anything. yes even those things not meant for you, you can still craft them by using the floating feat.
2)use can use thos items easily. You can take 10 on UMD, like, ALL THE TIME. so no problems there
3) You can use your hellfire over charge or somethign or other (2nd lvl hellfire warlock ability) to add metamagic on the fly for no extra cost. Remember you can craft metamagic rods as well :smallamused:
4) you can pick an invocation to choice to prepare. the higher level you are, the higher the invocation can be (as you reprepare it and you only need to qualify for it, no level reference), so it stays relevant.
5) everything is more or less at will and warlocks have some cary invocations, especially if you have a high castingstat to lack up those DC's. Otherwise there is still Edvards freezing spiked hentai tentacles of forced intrusion of doom of- you get the idea... Oh, and did I mention everything is more or less at will. Imagine laying down a whole battlefield of those :smallcool:

Now I think of it, you will probably be more like superman and Batman doing the fusion dance form DBZ. How awesome is that! :smallcool:

I'll give you a hint, it's aweosme enough to draw mr. Torque's attention. yes you should look him up on google.

Holy crap.
Remind me, that Hellfire Warlock thingy is in the second Fiend Folio, right?

Oh, and to everyone saying things like "glaivelock" and "clawlock": Assume I have no idea about anything not painfully intuitive or previously explained. You'll probably be right. I assume that "bardlock" means "multiclass Bard/Warlock" and "glaivelock" means "Warlock with a Glaive," but that's about all I've intuited...

[Andezzar]

This looks interesting. Since I don't think I have ToM, what all does the Shadow Creature template do?Dark Creature, not shadow Creature. The Good: (Ex) Hide in plain sight (except in daylight, still needs concealment), bonus to speed, bonus to hide and move silently, cold resistance, darkvision, superior lowlight vision.
The Bad: LA +1 Extraplanar Subtype. Clerics can tell you to go home to the shadow plane.


Oh, and to everyone saying things like "glaivelock" and "clawlock": Assume I have no idea about anything not painfully intuitive or previously explained. You'll probably be right. I assume that "bardlock" means "multiclass Bard/Warlock" and "glaivelock" means "Warlock with a Glaive," but that's about all I've intuited...A glaivelock is a warlock who uses Eldritch Glaive (Dragon Magic IIRC) as his primary attack, possibly combined with all sorts of other melee stuff (feats, abilities, class levels). Clawlock is the same with Eldritch Claws (some Dragon Magazine issue)

[Sgt. Cookie]

These refer to types of Warlock.

Clawlock is a Warlock that uses Eldritch Claws, Glaivelock is a Warlock that uses Eldritch Glaive. Both of these are Blast Shapes.

Bardlock is actually a build that (ab)uses three things: Prestige Bard (SRD), that fact that, unless explicitly stated, you do not have to advance the spell casting class that qualifies for the PrC and the fact Warlock is treated as an Arcane Caster as far as Spellcasting advancement is concerned.

Net result of a Bardlock? Invocations/Eldritch Blast as a 15th level Warlock and all the stuff you can pull off with Bardic Music.

[kardar233]

Eldritch Claws is actually a feat (from Dragon #358), not a Blast Shape. It gives you a pair of claw attacks that deal damage equal to your Eldritch Blast damage plus your Unarmed Strike damage.

[Socratov]

well, I saw someone react to me (?) on how my build was batman (and why he was a lazy munchkin), well, he isn't lazy. He needs to make all manner of toys. but shen he has, he has an answer to everything. He can make that ring of wishes (and since he doesn't craft the spell wish, but chooses to go SLA, catching!), he can do that and everything else and he can use it (decieve item suggests that fact). He can (thanks to items again, but now also in invocations) disable enemies. due to various invocations and essences he can give anyone any kind of condition. Maybe not in the amnner of a wizard, but he is the deity-damned batman, and whatever it is, he will make an answer for it (and the toy aspect is stronger then with a wizard)

[nedz]

I think that the lazy term just meant that the build did not involved prepared spell-casting, or too much book-keeping.

[LordBlades]

If the damage is prevented, you can't use hellfire. Strongheaet vest absorbs damage. The rules issue is unclear, unlike the straightforwardness of naeberius bind.

Technically you are wrong. The exact statement in the book is 'if you do not have a Con score or are somehow immune to Con damage'. Strongheart Vest doesn't provide immunity to Con damage, just reduces it.

Granted, the intent of the rule is probably along the lines of 'if you somehow don't suffer the Con damage' but that's not what's written in the book, and as such some DMs allow Strongheart Vest, especially since it's not really game breaking.

[Mato]

Hmm, Munchkin...

Strongheart Vest? Totally works.
Eldritch Claws? Use a Ring of the Viper and Venomfire (+1d6 per CL).
Level free Bloodlines? Make your own for 10 slots worth of free Feats or SLAs (see above).
Bardic Music? UMD a Wand of Protege to call dibs on lv40+ Bardic Music.
Dark Creature? It's sold as a necklace to none-munchkins, so meh.
Hit The Deck? Seriously, 3rd party Feat that lets you instantly gain a level per session more than anyone else, why are you not abusing this yet?

The power of Munchkinning is based on your own limitations, after all the rules are subjective to them.

[shaikujin]

Since this is a munchkin thread, I'd like to ask something that's been bothering me for a while now...

Warlocks have this special rule on how certain PRCs affect them. Specifically,


all PRCs that have “+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class” or “+1 level of existing spellcasting class” allows them to gain new invocations known as though he had gained a level in the Warlock class.


The first few times I read it, I thought, ok cool, instead of advancing my wizard spell casting levels, I can advance my warlock invocation levels.

Then when I actually wanted to create a warlock, I read that passage again, and realized that no where does it say that if I have more than 1 spellcasting or invocation class, I have to decide to increase either spellcasting or invocation.

That means Wizard 3/Warlock 3/Abjurant Champion 2 will give Wizard 5 spellcasting and Warlock 5 invocations.

Yeah, I know, if it sounds too good to be true, it's probably not.

Can someone let me know if this was brought up before or have been clarified somewhere?

[Sgt. Cookie]

You read that wrong, I'm afraid. All that page 18 means is that, apart from being unable to qualify for any PrC that has a Spell requirement, Warlock is treated no differently than any other Arcane caster, as far as PrC spell advancement is concerned.

This means that, if the PrC has no clause as to what spell casting it advances, such as the one Rainbow Savant has, you have to decide if you want to advance Warlock or a different spell casting class.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Dark Creature, not shadow Creature. The Good: (Ex) Hide in plain sight (except in daylight, still needs concealment), bonus to speed, bonus to hide and move silently, cold resistance, darkvision, superior lowlight vision.
The Bad: LA +1 Extraplanar Subtype. Clerics can tell you to go home to the shadow plane.
Thanks.


A glaivelock is a warlock who uses Eldritch Glaive (Dragon Magic IIRC) as his primary attack, possibly combined with all sorts of other melee stuff (feats, abilities, class levels). Clawlock is the same with Eldritch Claws (some Dragon Magazine issue)
Thanks again.


I think that the lazy term just meant that the build did not involved prepared spell-casting, or too much book-keeping.
No, the character himself is lazy. Same caveats and then some.


Hmm, Munchkin...

Strongheart Vest? Totally works.
Eldritch Claws? Use a Ring of the Viper and Venomfire (+1d6 per CL).
Level free Bloodlines? Make your own for 10 slots worth of free Feats or SLAs (see above).
Bardic Music? UMD a Wand of Protege to call dibs on lv40+ Bardic Music.
Dark Creature? It's sold as a necklace to none-munchkins, so meh.
Hit The Deck? Seriously, 3rd party Feat that lets you instantly gain a level per session more than anyone else, why are you not abusing this yet?

The power of Munchkinning is based on your own limitations, after all the rules are subjective to them.
Neat.

Quick questions: Where are Eldritch Claws and Strongheart Vests? Same with the dark creature necklace and Hit the Deck. I remember someone saying Eldritch Claws are from some Dragon magazine--which one, and is there some way to find it online or something?

[Snowbluff]

Strongheart Vest: Magic of Incarnum. Take the Shape Soulmeld feat.
Eldritch Claws: Dragon 358. Doesn't work with HFlock, unless you really Munchkin this.
Necklace: Tome of Magic, Shadow section.

[SowZ]

I have heard mixed things on it's legality but the pigeon bomber (not a full build mind you)
uses corpse crafter feats to get exploding pigeons that self destruct by ramming the ground. The advantage of this tactic are
1) you deal 2d6 damge per level
2) the damge is area of effect and can be divided up at will
3) by creating extra pigeons before battle you can start the fight off with a huge mass then during your turn summon even more for an extra strong initial round.
4) if your undead the explosions heal you
5) your not attacking anyone so you can combine this with invisibility
6) if your undead the explosions heal you instead
it comes together at level 6 at the only investment are a few feats so it could easily be combined with other munchkin builds.

technically bats are slightly better becuase a bats swarms has 5000 bats in it which makes them even cheaper then pigeons but pigeon bomber sounds funnier

But bat bomber makes you sound like Batman.

If you are playing for the lulz, you can do what I did once which is take Darkness and Devil's Sight and have a whole bag of pebbles with Darkness on them. First thing before entering a room, upturn the whole bag and toss it in. Everyone in the room but you will get that miss chance on anything, (including your party.) Yes, there are stronger uses of invocations. No, there aren't funnier ones. Not in my experience.

[Socratov]

Strongheart Vest: Magic of Incarnum. Take the Shape Soulmeld feat.
Eldritch Claws: Dragon 358. Doesn't work with HFlock, unless you really Munchkin this.
Necklace: Tome of Magic, Shadow section.

it does work... right? I mean EC makes your blast into 2 claw shaped thingies, and HFW advances your EB and adds a hellfire blast option to it of +2d6/hfwlvl.

[Snowbluff]

it does work... right? I mean EC makes your blast into 2 claw shaped thingies, and HFW advances your EB and adds a hellfire blast option to it of +2d6/hfwlvl.


Whenever you use your eldritch blast ability, you can change your eldritch blast into a hellfire blast.

Eldritch Claws is not using your Eldritch Blast ability. It has it's own action. (Free, fyi)

If you want to get more damage form your HF Blast, use Glaive, which is EB.

[Mato]

Quick questions: Where are Eldritch Claws and Strongheart Vests? Same with the dark creature necklace and Hit the Deck. I remember someone saying Eldritch Claws are from some Dragon magazine--which one, and is there some way to find it online or something?Hit The Deck is a 3rd party Feat from a book called "Munchkin's Player's Handbook"

Yes, that munchkin (http://www.worldofmunchkin.com/game/). The awesome card game that makes playing as a munchkin fun for all has it's own published adaptation for playing the the game it makes fun of. Not for usage by anyone that considers D&D serious business of course...