Dealing with Bluff...

[barna10]

So as a DM, have you ever had a problem with a disgustingly high Bluff skill on one of the PCs?

Last night, I was running a game. The group is 12-14th level and not optimized. One of the group is playing a Beguiler/Thrall of Grazzt with Bluff maxed out.

The group had just killed an old White Dragon and a small army of Frost GIants. They successfully hauled the hoard back to the one PC's village (the Dread Necro that rules the village with an Iron Fist) (on a side note, the Druid had to pull the wagon back for 1 day and a half as a Dire Horse, had a good laugh).

There had been talks of a Gnolls that were raiding caravans in the mountains. Unbeknownst to the group, the Gnolls are led by the half-dragon children of the Dragon they just offed.

The Gnolls track the group back to the village and kill all the living and undead guards while the group sleeps.

The lay siege to the village. There's a fun encounter where the Gnolls first send in a large pack (40) of Dire Wolves and the group gets to have target practice and an easy encounter (this makes them think it will be an easy night). Then the horn starts blowing and the Gnolls come out of the fog and surround the town.

The field general of the Gnolls teleports in with a Glabrezu (which I know can only teleport himself, but I fiatted it so he could teleport with another person for plot purposes). He delivers the ultimatum "Give back Mother's treasure, or we raze the town with you in it!"

The Beguiller doing as Beguillers do charmed the General. The Glabrezu easily made his Spellcraft check, teleported the two out and dispelled the charm. He reported back to the real boss, the Half-Dragon, Gnoll Cleric. The demon and the Cleric teleport in.

"No more human tricks. Give me my Mother's treasure!"

(Beguiller with Bluff) "But we don't have the treasure."

And...we grind to a halt. What to do here? Even with HUGE bonuses the poor Gnoll Cleric (13 class levels) is no match for the Beguiller in the Bluff game. I gave him maxed out Sense Motive, but even with a 20 and bonuses he couldn't make the check.

In this instance, the Druid mistakenly joined in to the conversation and said "Yep, we already fenced it!" I made him make a Bluff check. With his -2 total Bluff, the Cleric saw what was going on.

Now for the future. How do you handle high Bluffs when it could derail a game too easily? I've got no problem with him bluffing the hell out of stuff, but turning away a whole army seems a bit too much (at least not every time!)

[Darth Stabber]

A well placed and well worded lie can have that kind of power.

Here's what the gnolls should do, demand they get each and every peice of the original treasure back.

[Edge of Dreams]

How big is "HUGE" bonuses to the sense motive check? By book, he should get +10 or even +20 for a hard to believe lie, especially if they have evidence that the players did take the treasure and/or still have it.

Also, he's a cleric. Could he have cast Discern Lies (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/discernLies.htm) or something like that?

Finally, there's a consideration that a sufficiently insane bluff attempt should result in people just thinking you're crazy. If you go to the king and say "You're actually a sandwich" and roll a huge bluff check, the king is more likely to think you're a nutter who *believes* the king is a sandwich than to believe the lie himself.

[Edge of Dreams]

Here's what the gnolls should do, demand they get each and every peice of the original treasure back.

Good point. "You don't have the treasure? Fine. Go get it back for us or we'll kill you." And then have the Cleric cast Geas on them.

[barna10]

In this instance, they are CE and were going to raze the village either way....

Thanks. I should have thought about them telling to get the treasure back. I was a bit tired.