Missing Finger

[javijuji]

My character is missing one of his index fingers for RP reasons. And I intend to keep it that way since it is heavily tied to the character story. What kind of penalties should I apply to my checks because of it. I was thinking a penalty on all STR and/or DEX checks that involve using hands. And maybe also a penalty on attack rolls. Any thoughts?

[Edge of Dreams]

A -1 on STR/DEX-based checks and attack rolls that involve that hand should be plenty of penalty. It's enough to satisfy RP but small enough not to screw you over.

[Darth Stabber]

My character is missing one of his index fingers for RP reasons. And I intend to keep it that way since it is heavily tied to the character story. What kind of penalties should I apply to my checks because of it. I was thinking a penalty on all STR and/or DEX checks that involve using hands. And maybe also a penalty on attack rolls. Any thoughts?

-2 on attack rolls with right hand

-4 on climb checks, and checks involving manual dexterity (open lock, disable device, forgery, ect)

Though these would naturally over come after a while.

[VGLordR2]

Which finger is missing? That can heavily affect what the penalty should be. A missing thumb would be much more crippling than a missing pinky, for example.

EDIT: I'm apparently blind. Since it's an index finger, I like the -1 to strength checks, dexterity checks, and attack rolls. You shouldn't suffer heavily just for roleplay.

[Darth Stabber]

Which finger is missing? That can heavily affect what the penalty should be. A missing thumb would be much more crippling than a missing pinky, for example.

Op specified index finger, which is the second worst finger to lose.

[awa]

one non thumb finger and you have had time to adapt to the loss?
personly id say Maby a penalty to something like slight of hand but thats the most id go.

keep in mind formarians have only 3 fingers and have big claws getting in the way and suffer no penalty. Im certain if i spent the time i could find addtional examples

[Kelb_Panthera]

Unless the guy just lost the finger recently, giving him a penalty to anything but typing would be overkill, IMO.

If blind people can adapt to a lack of sight as well as many can, then I simply don't buy that anyone even remotely competent will be hampered by the loss of one finger for more than a relatively short period.

[Darth Stabber]

Depending on how long the finger has been missing, you can probably assume very little if any penalty. It's going to be very awkward at first, but unless you are an archer, you'll be unimpeded. If you are an archer, and the missing finger is on your drawing arm, it's goint to be a giant pain in the rectum, for quite a while.

[Gullara]

Yeah, if you really want to put a penalty on attack rolls, I'd just limit it to ranged attack rolls. Otherwise, appropriate skill check penalties would probably be just fine.

[ahenobarbi]

My character is missing one of his index fingers for RP reasons. And I intend to keep it that way since it is heavily tied to the character story. What kind of penalties should I apply to my checks because of it. I was thinking a penalty on all STR and/or DEX checks that involve using hands. And maybe also a penalty on attack rolls. Any thoughts?

None. Because in d&d having 1 of 1000 HP doesn't give you any penalties.

[nedz]

I don't think the rules cover this, so we're going to have to homebrew.
Or grandfather the rules from 3.0 ?
(I think that had handedness, well it certainly had an ambidexterity feat)
I don't know 3.0 unfortunately, maybe someone else can help here ?

Which hand is it ?
What is the handedness of your character ?

[javijuji]

It is his main hand and his index finger. He lost it over 10 years ago.

[Kelb_Panthera]

It is his main hand and his index finger. He lost it over 10 years ago.

Yeah. A penalty to anything is completely inappropriate. He got used to not having that finger a long time ago.

Also, why hasn't he had it regenerated in all that time?

[Juntao112]

My character is missing one of his index fingers for RP reasons. And I intend to keep it that way since it is heavily tied to the character story. What kind of penalties should I apply to my checks because of it. I was thinking a penalty on all STR and/or DEX checks that involve using hands. And maybe also a penalty on attack rolls. Any thoughts?

In real life, loss of a non-thumb digit is not terribly problematic with enough physical therapy.

[Incorrect]

-1 on Dex based checks.
Not Str, because how does it interfere with jumping, swimming and bending bars? And not attack because its too harsh.



It is his main hand and his index finger. He lost it over 10 years ago.

That long ago, it could easily be zero penalty, but -1 on Dex based checks is fine.

[awa]

I’m not positive but I’ve heard Mongols primarily used the thumb and a special ring to draw their bows so even an archer could get away with no penalty if he wanted to.

also a missing finger wont interfere with tumbling or balance so a penalty of even -1 to all dex checks seems overly harsh

[SinsI]

Add at least 50% failure chance penalty for casting spells that require complex gestures with that hand.
Also -5 to Sign Language skill.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Add at least 50% failure chance penalty for casting spells that require complex gestures with that hand.
Also -5 to Sign Language skill.

Can't..... tell..... if..... joking...... ? :smallconfused:

The only two sign languages I know of in the game are both covered under the speak language skill. There are no checks regarding them, period. Somatic components only require one hand.

Edit: okay, battle-sign does have an int check involved if the person "listening" doesn't know the language (success means he gets the message anyway), but that's the only one, and a missing finger wouldn't affect that because battle-sign isn't complex enough for one finger to matter. In drow-sign the missing finger would be roughly equivalent to a fairly minor speech impediment; like a lisp or the slurring you get when the deaf speak, that is: not enough of a problem to matter for understanding.

[ahenobarbi]

Add at least 50% failure chance penalty for casting spells that require complex gestures with that hand.
Also -5 to Sign Language skill.

And 47.21% chance to cut throat when shaving (even when shaving legs).

[Darth Stabber]

It is his main hand and his index finger. He lost it over 10 years ago.

@10 years there might be a slight (-1) penalty to ranged attacks, and nothing more. That is something you just get used to. I have a distant relative who lost his middle finger (if you guessed fireworks, you're right), doesn't really affect him anymore.

[Flickerdart]

-1 penalty on all arithmetic checks.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I would say that he takes a -5 penalty to ranged attack rolls with the Shortbow and Longbow, as losing an index finger will wreck your ability to fire such bows.

Perhaps a -2 penalty to Disable Device would be appropriate as well.

Other than that, after a 10 year period you should probably adapt pretty damn well.

[SinsI]

Somatic components only require one hand.

The penalty affects you if you are using the damaged hand to provide said component.



Edit: okay, battle-sign does have an int check involved if the person "listening" doesn't know the language (success means he gets the message anyway), but that's the only one, and a missing finger wouldn't affect that because battle-sign isn't complex enough for one finger to matter. In drow-sign the missing finger would be roughly equivalent to a fairly minor speech impediment; like a lisp or the slurring you get when the deaf speak, that is: not enough of a problem to matter for understanding.

IMHO, losing a finger should be a pretty grave impediment to sign language, especially an index finger, making it impossible to show at least 25% of all the signs. 25% is -5 on a 1-20 scale.

[Juntao112]

Which sign languages are you fluent in, SinsI?

[Flickerdart]

Somatic components don't need fingers. The only thing you need to do for them is gesture, and you can do that with four just as well as five.

[Juntao112]

Somatic components don't need fingers. The only thing you need to do for them is gesture, and you can do that with four just as well as five.

I can think of one gesture that would be impossible to perform if you were missing a certain finger.

[ko_sct]

Maybe but there is races with less than five fingers who can still cast spells.

I doubt a penalty would make sense after so much time, but if you really insist... -2 to pointing thing ? -1 to snapping your fingers ?

[TuggyNE]

I don't know where the ideas of massive penalties to bow attacks are coming from; as an occasional recurve archer, I don't believe it would be enormously difficult to adjust to using a different triad of fingers, even in the short-term (-2 at the most). And a 10-year-old injury? No real penalty at all.



And 47.21% chance to cut throat when shaving (even when shaving legs).


-1 penalty on all arithmetic checks.

OK, these were both quite funny. +1 to both :smallwink:

[herrhauptmann]

To the OP:
What's his combat style?
If he's had 10 years to get used to it, he shouldn't have too many penalties to his skills.
ex: I knew a 9-fingered electrician a few years ago. He'd lost it to a car door when he was a kid (degloved it). He was just as good at all our tasks as the rest of us, even though he had to pick up things with his thumb and middle finger instead. Even when fiddling with tiny wires and screws.
The biggest disadvantage? Wearing gloves for normal people. The extra cloth flapping around got in the way all the time. The best he could do was turn the one finger inside out and hope it didn't get snagged and pulled back out at the wrong time.

Or his combat styles. I know a few SCA fighters who don't actually grip their weapon with the index finger. Especially with two-handers.


And 47.21% chance to cut throat when shaving (even when shaving legs).
Now you're reaching back to original D&D I think. I like it.

[The Viscount]

Mongolian Bow style does indeed use the thumb, but not the index. The character should function fine with no penalty.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The penalty affects you if you are using the damaged hand to provide said component. Why would you ever use that hand for the somatic component of a spell, knowing this? Short of the other being imobile or outright missing that's just voluntarily gimping yourself. If a penalty is never going to come up, why bother giving one in the first place?




IMHO, losing a finger should be a pretty grave impediment to sign language, especially an index finger, making it impossible to show at least 25% of all the signs. 25% is -5 on a 1-20 scale.

Like I said, battle-sign is just too simple to be significantly affected.

Drow-sign is as complex as a spoken language. If you can make yourself understood when you know less than 75% of the words in the language or when your vocal apparatus is significantly damaged (or both) then missing one 10th of your fingers won't mean jack to drow-sign.

In any case, D&D languages aren't granular enough for there to be a penalty associated with -any- language.

A) you're either trained in a language or you're not (barring a feat or a skill trick)

B) in either case there's no making a check that has anything to do with whether or not you speak the language well.

Suggesting a penalty to sign-language is both absurd in the mechanical sense (a numeric penalty wouldn't have any function and a percentile penalty would be complete absurd unless you'd apply a similar penalty to deaf characters and spoken languages) and absurd in the logical sense (outlined above).

For any kind of combat. One finger is completely meaningless. Even if you lost it -in the heat of combat- any penalty would be the result of the pain in using that freshly wounded hand, rather than any loss of fine motor control from the absent digit.

[Slipperychicken]

Just use the middle finger as though it was the index, no biggie.


-4 to Perform (Stringed Instruments)

[Kelb_Panthera]

Just use the middle finger as though it was the index, no biggie.


-4 to Perform (Stringed Instruments)

Again, only one hand is necessary for the fingering. The other is operating a pick, bow, paddle, etc to actually pluck the strings in nearly all cases.

Having lost one finger ten years ago should mean nothing at all unless an NPC comments on it. Then -maybe- it has an impact based on social or psychological points.

A penalty on diplomacy in a society where physical deformity is considered major bad juju for example. Maybe the non-mechanical issue of PTSD or even simply being touchy about it because you're embarrased about how you lost it.

Major sweeping penalties are wholly inappropriate for this.

[Slipperychicken]

Again, only one hand is necessary for the fingering. The other is operating a pick, bow, paddle, etc to actually pluck the strings in nearly all cases.


I've been playing cello for about 11 years now, and I can tell you, if you lose a finger on the wrong hand (usually the left), you're definitely at a disadvantage for fast music, which assumes you have all your fingers. You'll often need to do very quick runs which are hard enough with every finger moving. Maybe the penalty would start at -4, but get reduced to -2 or -1 after you got used to it. But if you lose a finger on the bow hand, you really couldn't care less.

For the other stuff, I agree. I imagine you don't need all five fingers to swing a sword, or pick locks, or punch people, or juggle. I knew a woman who lost most of her fingers and one hand, but was able to function more or less normally.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I've been playing cello for about 11 years now, and I can tell you, if you lose a finger on the wrong hand (usually the left), you're definitely at a disadvantage for fast music, which assumes you have all your fingers. You'll often need to do very quick runs which are hard enough with every finger moving. Maybe the penalty would start at -4, but get reduced to -2 or -1 after you got used to it. But if you lose a finger on the bow hand, you really couldn't care less.

For the other stuff, I agree. I imagine you don't need all five fingers to swing a sword, or pick locks, or punch people, or juggle. I knew a woman who lost most of her fingers and one hand, but was able to function more or less normally.

Even that's assuming that you couldn't teach yourself to use your undamaged hand to finger the strings. I honestly have no idea how difficult it would be to switch your dominant hand for such a thing, but I don't buy it as impossible.

Unrelated note, since we're talking about manual dexterity anyway: is it wierd that, in-spite of being right handed and naturally wielding most weapons with my right as the dominant hand, I seem to do better with fencing style swordsmanship with my left? E.g. foils, rapiers, jian, etc.