Soildiers' Gear and Personal Weapons

[Chilingsworth]

Current Gear list:
OK, so new load out:

typical soldier: non elite array war2 (in my DM's world, all soldiers are apaprently 2nd level minimum.)

gear:
studded leather armor
buckler
morning star
longbow
20 arrows
dagger or survival hatchet (handaxe)
uniform
waterskin
pack
healer's kit
2 day's rations
2 torches
flint and steel

per squad (10 soldiers, plus 1 3rd level NCO, 1 3rd level medic (cleric), 1 3rd level scout (rogue or actual scout), 1 6th level lieutenant (warblade, fighter, crusader, or paladin of tyranny))

one healer's belt
one wand of lesser vigor (25 charges)
one signal mirror
2 50ft lengths of rope
one grapling hook
5 shovels
signal whistles for officer and NCO
extra arrows (around 200-300)
extra rations

Per company:

4 squads plus: 1 7th level chaplain (cleric), 1 7th level arcanist (wizard), 1 9th level captain (warblade, fighter, crusader, or paladin of tyranny.)

one aspect mirror
one orb of mental renewal
one rod of bodily restoration
one spyglass
one supply wagon including extra ammo, specality alchemical items, and tents, plus rations

Also, at the company level, additional support:

air cover:

5 wiz 5's riding aerial mounts (probably either spider eaters or giant eagle zombies.) Equiped with varrious nasty things to drop on foes, plus their spells to strafe with.

Company level is as high as I've really considered. Incidentally, minus the air support, it does seem fairly similiar to what we've been facing from the military of the current regime.

///

Old gear list:
Ok, I might be running out of questions for my evil empire development.

This time, I'm interested in personal equipment for my armed forces.

What I've thought of so far:

Every soildier should be equiped with:
a melee weapon (what's the best option?)
a shield (maybe?)
a ranged weapon (I'm thinking repeating heavy crossbows)
ammo
armor
a backup melee weapon (probably a dagger, which will also serve as a general purpose knife.)
A packpack
a signal mirror
rope
grapling hook
a shovel (entrenching tool, latrine digging tool)
a handax
a uniform (stats of an adenturer's or explorer's outfit, unless deployed to harsh climate, in which case appropriate gear.)

alchemical warfare pack:
2 flasks each of alchemist's fire and acid
2 tanglefoot bags
2 smokesticks
2 noxious smokesticks
1 screaming flask

survival and hygine pack:
healer's kit
auran mask
2 torches
2 sunrods
flint and steel
an extra knife (dagger)
blanket
bedroll
soap
2 clearwater tablets
2 endurance elixirs
2 Daywalker's Capsules
4 trail bars
2 doses each of healer's balm and catstink
1 weeping flask
2 potions of cure light wounds

In addition, each officer and NCO would have a signal whistle and each squad would have a spyglass, two healer's belts, and one each of rod of bodily restoration and orb of mental renewal.

///

I'm thinking for primary weapons: a heavy repeating crossbow with a sword bayonnet attached.

So, anything I should add? I'm trying to avoid adding more magic items, other than communications gear, but that would mostly be distributed to levels higher than the individual soldier or squad. More like companies and above.

[Gavinfoxx]

Why would an evil empire invest in mundane soldiers? You want spellcasters, son! Or just werecreatures that are lawful evil or lawful neutral. MUCH simpler.... and more interesting! ;)

[Chilingsworth]

Why would an evil empire invest in mundane soldiers? You want spellcasters, son! Or just werecreatures that are lawful evil or lawful neutral. MUCH simpler.... and more interesting! ;)

Because not everyone has the talent to be a spellcaster and I intend to institute universal conscrpition.

As for werecreatures... well, that assumes they even exist in my DM's world, or that if they do, they can be part of (relatively) civilized societies.
Even if I can use werecreatures, they'll still benefit from equipment.

I fully intend to indoctrinate and train all citizens that show spellcasting potential.

Basically, I'm drawing on Karnath and Thay for my inspiration.

EDIT: Another reason for my investment in mundanes is to have a backup plan (however flimsy of one) incase my spellcasters are rendered useless.

[jaynus006]

Indeed, were creatures and spellcasters and don't forget more undead than you can shake a stick at. Otherwise is this supposed to be standard issue for soldiers? They seem pretty well equipped.

[Chilingsworth]

Indeed, were creatures and spellcasters and don't forget more undead than you can shake a stick at. Otherwise is this supposed to be standard issue for soldiers? They seem pretty well equipped.

Yes, this is supposed to be standard issue, at least for the regular army (the ones that stay in the military after their term of conscription is up.) The rest of the mundanes will be formed into local home defense militias, and not be as well equiped (though there will hopefully be stores of additional equipment to distribute in the case of actual war, to effectively turn the militias into regulars.)

As for how this stuff will be paid for: widespread education will allow for improved productivity. That will make more... stuff... available. Yes, I intend to build an evil empire, but I want my citizens to be productive, usefull, and loyal. So, I intend to invest in them.

The undead will come from voluntary transformations (becoming a vampire or other sentient undead will confer status on the transformed) bodies used after natural death, criminals, and enemy combatants. Also animals and other beasts.

[avr]

How strong are your soldiers likely to be? It might be useful to spread some of the equipment around a team rather than have every single person carry rope, shovel etc. if this would encumber them. Similarly one of the advantages of a longbow is that it is less encumbering than a repeating heavy crossbow for a similar effect.

Also it might be useful to separate high value equipment from high-bulk equipment so if something is lost or abandoned it's less likely to include the magic potions.

[Gavinfoxx]

Have you read my handbooks on post-scarcity societies and making airships and making transhumans and such in D&D 3.5e?

Also, if you are evil, pay/force powerful creatures to breed with various citizens. Get lots of lineages of magical blood in your populace, yaknow? Very useful.

Also, if you wanna have magic potions... make it a magic potions of Faith Healing of the state-sponsored god. Those are to be part of each person, to be used if they fall unconscious in the middle of combat and need to be resuscitated quickly. ;) ;)

[Amnestic]

a melee weapon (what's the best option?)

Morningstar or Longsword - or both. Spread them evenly amongst the troops and you've got a good cover for all three types of damage.

[Gavinfoxx]

Good melee weapons include:

Morningstar
Greatsword
Falchion
Guisarme
Gauntlet / Spiked Gauntlet
Armor Spikes
Duom

If all you have is Simple Weapon Proficiency, than some good weapons are:

Morningstar
Longspear
Sling
Fauchard
Bladed Crossbow
Light Crossbow
Prodd
Javelin
Gauntlet
Spiked Gauntlet

If you have Martial Weapon Proficiency, some good weapons are:

Duom
Falchion
Greatsword
Lance
Warmace
Heavy Spiked Shield
Guisarme
Composite Longbow

[Slipperychicken]

Dude, these guys have like 1,000+ gp in equipment on them. No ordinary level 1 soldier is worth that much, and unless the empire is made of platinum, no country can blow so much to equip any but the most elite soldiers with this much dough. And it's hilariously inefficient -Just buying so many more troops (or training them to a higher level) is going to be far more useful. Seriously, each guy has equipment equal to the value of a house.

For example, a Tanglefoot Bag is almost completely useless to a grunt. You're using a 25gp item to possibly slow down a 1sp/day loser mook. If it needs to be done, a Net is going to be a lot more efficient.

Unless they're higher level (6?), a 50gp potion is going to be several times more valuable than the soldier it saves. Leave the healing to medics.

Auran Mask: When will 10 minutes of underwater breathing make that much of a difference?

As for the Sunrod, the army could have bought 200 torches with that money.

And so on... You get the idea.



To keep things more reasonable, try using the NPC wealth table. It's a much more realistic estimation of the amount of gear a standard soldier will have.

[Chilingsworth]

Have you read my handbooks on post-scarcity societies and making airships and making transhumans and such in D&D 3.5e?

Also, if you are evil, pay/force powerful creatures to breed with various citizens. Get lots of lineages of magical blood in your populace, yaknow? Very useful.

Also, if you wanna have magic potions... make it a magic potions of Faith Healing of the state-sponsored god. Those are to be part of each person, to be used if they fall unconscious in the middle of combat and need to be resuscitated quickly. ;) ;)

I haven't read your handbooks. Could you provide a link?

As for strength, I'm hoping that when I'm done with my universal education and universal conscription (which will of course include universal military basic training) I'll be working with the nonelite array at the very least.

I'll reconsider the longbow. It would also save on a feat, of course (though with enough investment, my DM might just rule that the citizens of my empire gain familiarity with it.)

[Gavinfoxx]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aG4P3dU6WP3pq8mW9l1qztFeNfqQHyI22oJe09i8KWw/edit

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Z9NJIs751Af3i0IEIJwCkIp9H9YFiZYZ7u-wmYVaheI/edit

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14zilT4WGOyHM0AfpG4-GmD2FkgDg1HZ9HC1cTleQHds/edit

[awa]

realistically speaking they have a ridiculous amount of gear on them
now since dnd encumbrance is very simplistic it might still work but that is a massive amount of weaponry and stuff. give me a sec im gonna calculate the weight

okay i ignored all the alchemical gear and non srd stuff and you still came out to over 90 pounds (that assumes long sword, chain shirt buckler and 20 bolts)
so your troops assuming a 12 str are all at a heavy load and carrying over 500 gp worth of gear (a number that will sky rocket if you add in the alchemical items)

[Lord Il Palazzo]

If you're issuing everyone a shield, I'd say go with a morningstar or longsword and everyone who takes the longsword gets a club too. That way, between the main weapons and the backup dagger, everyone has all three damage types on hand. If you don't give out shields or they're optional, I'd go for greatswords and possibly longspears, again giving out a club along with the backup knife. I'm guessing a horse isn't part of the standard equipment or I'd suggest a lance for cavalry charges.

For the ranged weapon, I'd go with the longbow. It's lighter and fire more rapidly, even if the range is slightly lower. The lower weight means you soldiers are less encombered, which is a pluss on long marches and the like. The firing rate translates into more shots fired into the enemy before they get into melee at 2d8 damage (average 9) per 2 rounds instead of 1d10 (average 5.5) per two rounds; even factoring in the shorter range (you have the a range increment of 100 ft. for the longbow rather than 120 with the heavy crossbow. If the enemy advances at 20 ft. per round (assuming medium or heavy armor and making ranged attacks of their own) you have 60 turns to hit them with the crossbows and 50 to hit them with the longbows. Multiplying by the average damage/round (half of the average damage above) each soldier has the potential to deal 270 damage with a longbow (assuming all arrows hit something) compared to 165 with a crossbow. I'm ignoring range penalties for simplicity. Besides, if you're firing into tightly packed enemy formations, you should manage to hit someone most of the time.

The crossbow is better with rapid reload though you wouldn't have the option of shooting and moving like the longbows do, keeping the enemy out of melee range longer while continuing to rain of arrows. I'd say the feat is better spent elsewhere. Perhaps train the army for Improved Initiative; in a battle between two level 1 armys with longbows, the side that gets hit with the first volley of arrows will take heavy casualties before they can get their own first volley off.

[awa]

there still going to be at heavy load assuming 12 str

[Yukitsu]

Gear should be heavily divided up by troop type. In my particular faction that one of my characters made though, the typical grunt carried the following:

Military uniform
standard issue "rifle" (a gigantic wand. Setting specific, required external charges) Easily replaced by heavy crossbow.
Bayonet to be affixed to "rifle"
Sword
Dagger
Survival or utility knife or hatchet
Shovel
25 charges ammunition
2 skins water
1 skin alcohol
5 feet bandage
20 feet rope
3 burlap sacks
1 5 ounce skin distilled alcohol mixed with alchemical salts to burn blue
3 days rations
Thumb size ration of ginger
Map
Note pad
Charcoal
Cooking oil
Flint and tinder
Lantern
Lantern oil
1 layer bound article explosive rune paper (to prevent both pre-emptive reading and dispelling)
30 sheets well worn out and softened paper
A rucksack
Ammunition pouch
"Necessities" pack, that being a smaller backpack to carry the absolute essentials in the event the larger ruck sack must be dropped. Fitted to slip under the ruck sack.

Specific specialists and the more powerful wings in the army carried different gear, depending on what they did in particular.

[Sgt. Cookie]

If you're high level enough, plane shift/gate/whatever several tonnes of Dread Blossoms and throw them at your foot soldiers. Either you soldier dies, or becomes nigh invulnerable.

Have a read of the Forgotten Template for more information.

[Laserlight]

Every soldier should be equiped with:


All of what follows is based on historical practice rather than D&D optimization.

First off, it sounds as if you're only thinking of one type of soldier, but most armies would have (to simplify things) two to four types: light infantry, heavy infantry, light cavalry, heavy cavalry:

Light infantry would have some long range missile weapon (bow or sling), backup one-handed melee weapon, light armor, small shield or none. They're faster on the march than heavy infantry and are suitable for rough terrain.

Heavy infantry will have a thrown missile weapon, which is usually hurled as the lines are about to impact. Medium or large shield, medium armor, melee weapon--if this is a polearm, they'll also have a shortsword or mace as a backup. Fight in close formation.

Light cavalry will have bow or sometimes javelin. They'll carry a saber or other melee weapon; they shouldn't get involved in melee against a combat effective enemy, but can scatter peasants or chase down fleeing enemy.

Heavy cavalry fight in close formation and "charge" at the trot. Lance, longsword, mace or axe. Normally carry a shield; if not, they'll be in the heaviest armor available.

From your basic equipment, you don't need every man to have the grappling hook, rope, and signal mirror--one per squad at most. Each squad might also have a cooking pot, saw, mattock, basket, axe, bucket.

[ShadowFireLance]

Well, I want to see your finished Evil Empire....:smallwink:

Though, as said before, This is a little much for mooks, Just give them a Sword, Shield, Clothes, Armor, And Send into Lemming mode!

[Lord Il Palazzo]

there still going to be at heavy load assuming 12 strTrue, but I doubt dropping any single piece of gear is going to make them unencumbered. Every individual cut has to add up to the total reduction you need so you have to start somewhere.

I'd say the best answer is to demote a lot of the utility gear to 1 or 2 per unit and give a lot of the extra load to some sort of pack animal. A few horses, donkeys or oxen per unit could go a long ways toward reducing the load on each individual. Besides, how often is everyone going to need a shovel or grappling hood all at once or need a bar of soap or sunrod without a chance to go pick one up from the common supply?

[Gavinfoxx]

Yea, a mule, donkey, pony, or horse per 8 soldiers!

[Chilingsworth]

Well, I want to see your finished Evil Empire....:smallwink:

Though, as said before, This is a little much for mooks, Just give them a Sword, Shield, Clothes, Armor, And Send into Lemming mode!

I'm hoping not to have mooks, as such. Think more the Swiss or the Israelis: A smallish (at least to start) nation that insitutes universal conscription based on the belief that all their neighbors are out to get them.

Incidentally, I have one piece of evidence for this paranoia: While we were just begining our quest for domination (by running an arms shipment to an allied orc horde,) our ship was attacked by a gang of aquatic elves. Their leader (a druid, I think) claimed that her god had sent her a vision about us and charged her with a quest to crush us.

[Gavinfoxx]

So what did you think of the handbooks? Anything you can use?

[Chilingsworth]

OK, so new load out:

typical soldier: non elite array war2 (in my DM's world, all soldiers are apaprently 2nd level minimum.)

gear:
studded leather armor
buckler
morning star
longbow
20 arrows
dagger or survival hatchet (handaxe)
uniform
waterskin
pack
healer's kit
2 day's rations
2 torches
flint and steel

per squad (10 soldiers, plus 1 3rd level NCO, 1 3rd level medic (cleric), 1 3rd level scout (rogue or actual scout), 1 6th level lieutenant (warblade, fighter, crusader, or paladin of tyranny))

one healer's belt
one wand of lesser vigor (25 charges)
one signal mirror
2 50ft lengths of rope
one grapling hook
5 shovels
signal whistles for officer and NCO
extra arrows (around 200-300)
extra rations

Per company:

4 squads plus: 1 7th level chaplain (cleric), 1 7th level arcanist (wizard), 1 9th level captain (warblade, fighter, crusader, or paladin of tyranny.)

one aspect mirror
one orb of mental renewal
one rod of bodily restoration
one spyglass
one supply wagon including extra ammo, specality alchemical items, and tents, plus rations

Also, at the company level, additional support:

air cover:

5 wiz 5's riding aerial mounts (probably either spider eaters or giant eagle zombies.) Equiped with varrious nasty things to drop on foes, plus their spells to strafe with.

Company level is as high as I've really considered. Incidentally, minus the air support, it does seem fairly similiar to what we've been facing from the military of the current regime.

[awa]

universal conscription does not mean your troops are going to be of better quality then your neighbors professional soldier particularly becuase their all heavily encumbered they will likely get wiped out by their poorer foes who will then be rich beyond their dreams from all the gear they loot. Your nation is going to be massively bankrupt.

Much more reasonable. although you seem to be assuming that for every 10 basic soldiers you have 4 elite warrior and that's just in a basic squad that seems optimistic

[Chilingsworth]

So what did you think of the handbooks? Anything you can use?

I think I can use some of the raw material aquisition methods in the post scarcity handbook. The transhumanish handbook I can't really use, though I intend to experiment with the blooded one template for use in taming our orc allies (since it seems to turn them lawful evil, which would be a vast improvement over the bearly controlable chaotic evil the exhibit now.) Also, I'm considering experimenting with the mineral warrior template. I don't think the airship handbook will be of much use because of how my DM handles XP and item crafting. (That's why I'm focusing on trained mounts and/or undead for my airforce... and for any vehicles, for that matter.) Which reminds me, instead of pack animals, I might use hollowed out undead, also for carrying some troops.

[Gavinfoxx]

Get your Neutral Evil Druids acquiring and releasing animal companions into the care of high quality trainers... quick access to whatever animals you need, you know?

Also, poison is a fantastic way to make money, if you have someone to sell to... you can get a LOT of value in poison and such, real quick! Also training animals to be Warbeasts is really, really useful...

[Lord Il Palazzo]

The new list looks much more reasonable. Maybe I missed it but what's pulling the supply wagon? A horse starts at 75 GP for light and non-war-trained and goes up to 400 GP for each heavy warhorse. Mules only run 8 GP each and have only 2 less strength.

[Chilingsworth]

The new list looks much more reasonable. Maybe I missed it but what's pulling the supply wagon? A horse starts at 75 GP for light and non-war-trained and goes up to 400 GP for each heavy warhorse. Mules only run 8 GP each and have only 2 less strength.

You didn't miss it. I'm not sure, likely zombie or skeleton heavy horses. If I can manage it, I might even go for skeletal animals for transport purposes (with modified ribcages serving as baggage or even troop compartments if I can get large enough animals/other creatures.)

Mules would work in a pinch, though. They'd probably be better for the lower-teir pack animals, since they only require someone with handle animal to control them, rather than someone with command undead. (Clerics in this world get pathfinder-style channel energy -more or less- and have to spend a feat to get the ability to command undead with their channels.)

[Lord Il Palazzo]

You didn't miss it. I'm not sure, likely zombie or skeleton heavy horses. If I can manage it, I might even go for skeletal animals for transport purposes (with modified ribcages serving as baggage or even troop compartments if I can get large enough animals/other creatures.)

Mules would work in a pinch, though. They'd probably be better for the lower-teir pack animals, since they only require someone with handle animal to control them, rather than someone with command undead. (Clerics in this world get pathfinder-style channel energy -more or less- and have to spend a feat to get the ability to command undead with their channels.)Once the animal's been trained, the handle animal check to make it do what it's trained for is negligible (DC 10, so anyone without a charisma penalty could do it any time they weren't rushed or in danger and someone with a -1 in charisma could still pull it off nearly half the time.)

Undead warhorses seem a little bit ill advised. Anyone can tend to and care for a mule while you need someone specific for the undead horses. The horses also cost far more than the mules (100 GP worth of onyx for each horse reanimated with Animate Dead compared to 8 GP for a mule) and would likely be harder to get (as many DMs would require you to actually find or buy the onyx rather than just burning gold of the equivalent value and you'd still have to find the horse corpses anyways. For a DM, I'd say go crazy, but for a player this seems a bit unfeasible.

[Gavinfoxx]

There are ways to make undead without using Onyx. There are several handbooks on how to do that!

[Chilingsworth]

Once the animal's been trained, the handle animal check to make it do what it's trained for is negligible (DC 10, so anyone without a charisma penalty could do it any time they weren't rushed or in danger and someone with a -1 in charisma could still pull it off nearly half the time.)

Undead warhorses seem a little bit ill advised. Anyone can tend to and care for a mule while you need someone specific for the undead horses. The horses also cost far more than the mules (100 GP worth of onyx for each horse reanimated with Animate Dead compared to 8 GP for a mule) and would likely be harder to get (as many DMs would require you to actually find or buy the onyx rather than just burning gold of the equivalent value and you'd still have to find the horse corpses anyways. For a DM, I'd say go crazy, but for a player this seems a bit unfeasible.

Yeah, I know. I was thinking of using skeletal elephants as APC's for elite strike teams (say, 6th-8th level or so, before they get teleport.) Specifically, using skeletal elephants with specialized barding to turn their ribcages into an enclosed compartment. Maybe skeletal giant crocodiles (same sort of modifications) as midget submarines. I think I know where such animals can be found. Theoretically, I might even be able to establish breading populations of them so I can produce them at home. Such things would be mostly rule of cool, though, maybe used as propagana weapons.

[Gavinfoxx]

You want things with ex burrow for strike teams... burrow through stone (there are two creatures I know of that can do that), ideally.

[Chilingsworth]

You want things with ex burrow for strike teams... burrow through stone (there are two creatures I know of that can do that), ideally.

Which creatures are these? And can they either be trained to carry strike teams, or be animated and retain this ability?

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, an Undead Bulette can carry strike teams, if it is hollowed out... they are pretty thick creatures, you know? And the creatures that can burrow through stone are Bluespawn Ambusher and Thoqqua.


Seriously. All the best creatures, classes, bloodlines, acfs, etc. have a bit of a blood of [x magical creature] in them. And humans can and will breed with anything. Encourage various sentient magical creatures to...intermingle with your populace, hahaha! And discourage speciesism amongst your populace; no, the bigotry should be based on something else, like belief system or religion or something...

[Chilingsworth]

Well, an Undead Bulette can carry strike teams, if it is hollowed out... they are pretty thick creatures, you know? And the creatures that can burrow through stone are Bluespawn Ambusher and Thoqqua.

I don't think I'd want to ride in a Thoqqua (plus the things are too small). I don't know enough about the spawn of tiamat to say wheather or not it would be a good candidate.

So, is a bulette's carapice part of its skeleton? It does seem to be made of bone, at any rate. Skeletal bulettes would make decent vehicles. How many could they hold internally, though? Somewhere between 1-4 medium creatures, I'd guess?

[Chilingsworth]

Well, an Undead Bulette can carry strike teams, if it is hollowed out... they are pretty thick creatures, you know? And the creatures that can burrow through stone are Bluespawn Ambusher and Thoqqua.


Seriously. All the best creatures, classes, bloodlines, acfs, etc. have a bit of a blood of [x magical creature] in them. And humans can and will breed with anything. Encourage various sentient magical creatures to...intermingle with your populace, hahaha! And discourage speciesism amongst your populace; no, the bigotry should be based on something else, like belief system or religion or something...

My DM has homebrewed alternate versions of the half x/"touched" races. Most of them aren't that great. Half-elf is ok. It get's human traits with two +1's, a -1, and a -2 to be placed as the player sees fit. (It used to get just two +1's and two -1's until half the party looked at the options, and decided 'I want to be a half-elf!' so, he decided to nerf it slightly. Still let those of us that had already made characters keep the old version, at least. Basic humans get the normal human traits, and one each a +1 and a -1 to be placed as the player sees fit.) As for acf's the usual ones don't quite exist. There are some homebrewed ones for different cultures (some of which are a few of the lesser normal acf's repurposed, and some of which are ok.) but things like the elven generalist? NOPE.

Still, from a fluff standpoint, I definately intend to incourage racial diversity. My character was the victim of extreme racism on the part of the Tyran regime and (appart from wanting to exterminate the local church of Tyr in revenge) wants that type of discrimination to stop.

[Gavinfoxx]

Yea... recruit whisper gnomes and strongheart halflings for your empire, hahaha! ;)

[SowZ]

Forget studded leather armor. Hire as many chitines as you can. They can live very well, (5GP a day means about 1800 GP a year! GREAT living,) for the cost of equipping all your soldiers with plate armor/breastplate depending on that soldiers dex/how important speed is to his role/proficiencies.

You could, feasibly, replace each soldiers armor either twice a year or four times a year, depending on how important it is to you that their armor is in tip top shape. So you are giving all your soldiers plate armor for the same cost as equipping them all with that studded leather armor once a year.

Invest in big universities. Make a mageacracy. Make becoming a spellcaster desired by everyone because they live lives of such luxury. And make the education state funded, (as long as the mage promises to serve the empire with their talents.)

People too dumb to be spellcasters can be discovered and kicked out shortly, since only an 11 Int, Wis, or Cha is needed to be a valuable member of society. (Seriously, even if 1st level spells is all you will ever do, you will do more to keep your city running than almost anything else you could do with that first level.)

Invest in magic item study, including weapons, wondrous items, traps, etc. This sounds like a pretty high level world. A few wizards with 20+ Int will figure out some super useful traps and items. You may eventually get practically infinite wealth to train up even more mages and such. Your biggest concern is finding a way to maintain leadership. My evil overlords are always Psions for that reason.

[Chilingsworth]

Yea... recruit whisper gnomes and strongheart halflings for your empire, hahaha! ;)

No gnomes at all (they fled the world to avoid a prophesied world-wide disaster in some spelljammer-like craft... that created a sizable desert when it launched.) There are halflings, but no stronghearts. The halflings that do exist are far from useless, though.

[Chilingsworth]

Forget studded leather armor. Hire as many chitines as you can. They can live very well, (5GP a day means about 1800 GP a year! GREAT living,) for the cost of equipping all your soldiers with plate armor/breastplate depending on that soldiers dex/how important speed is to his role/proficiencies.

You could, feasibly, replace each soldiers armor either twice a year or four times a year, depending on how important it is to you that their armor is in tip top shape. So you are giving all your soldiers plate armor for the same cost as equipping them all with that studded leather armor once a year.

what's a chitine? Also, the reason I gave them studded leather armor is to save on weight, so they aren't encumbered.

[SowZ]

what's a chitine? Also, the reason I gave them studded leather armor is to save on weight, so they aren't encumbered.

Makes sense for basic patrols and such. But before a battle? Put on the chitine armor. Depending on their strength, I suppose, plate armor or banded mail or breastplate. (You will never see me recommending banded mail again, hehe.)

A Chitine is a race that lives in the Underdark. They have an evil bent, which is probably nice for you. Once per day, a Chitine can make Chitine armor to replicate any other type of armor. Assume this means basic armors. Not, say, mithral or mountain plate, hehe. It doesn't cost them anything because they make it out of webs they secrete. (Yes, your soldiers are wearing bodily fluids. They won't complain once it saves their life a couple times.)

Anyway, it lasts for 3 months at which point the armor loses 1 point of AC a month. Nothing is left at 0 months. The recommended price for such a thing is 5GP. Yes, non metal plate armor for 3 months+ for 5 GP. Yeah, it is a little broken. That shouldn't bother an evil conqueror, though.

[Chilingsworth]

Makes sense for basic patrols and such. But before a battle? Put on the chitine armor. Depending on their strength, I suppose, plate armor or banded mail or breastplate. (You will never see me recommending banded mail again, hehe.)

A Chitine is a race that lives in the Underdark. They have an evil bent, which is probably nice for you. Once per day, a Chitine can make Chitine armor to replicate any other type of armor. Assume this means basic armors. Not, say, mithral or mountain plate, hehe.

Anyway, it lasts for 3 months at which point the armor loses 1 point of AC a month. Nothing is left at 0 months. The recommended price for such a thing is 5GP. Yes, non metal plate armor for 3 months+ for 5 GP. Yeah, it is a little broken. That shouldn't bother an evil conqueror, though.

It would bother a dm, though. Plus, I have no idea if these creatures even exist in his underdark, or where any underdark entrances exist in the country I'm trying to take over (which is also the only country I have realistic access to, this is a civil war.) For what it's worth, are they in the FR underdark book?

[SowZ]

It would bother a dm, though. Plus, I have no idea if these creatures even exist in his underdark, or where any underdark entrances exist in the country I'm trying to take over (which is also the only country I have realistic access to, this is a civil war.) For what it's worth, are they in the FR underdark book?

I believe so? But don't quote me on it, please, hehe.

[Chilingsworth]

I believe so? But don't quote me on it, please, hehe.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :smalltongue:

EDIT: Also, I checked: You're correct.

[Gavinfoxx]

You should make your armor out of Chitin. You can make ALL SORTS of armor out of Chitin! Only mentioning options 300 gp and under, for now. Takes (presumably) less treatment than Leather or Hide, it's a renewable resource, no need to mine for it... doesn't rust... =D

Light Armor:

Chitin Armor
(Races of Eberron pg 172)
20 gp, +2 armor bonus, +7 max dex bonus, -1 acp, 5% asf, no speed reduction, 10 lbs

Medium Armor

Scorpion Breastplate
(Races of Eberron pg 172)
300 gp, +4 armor bonus, +4 max dex bonus, -3 acp, 20% asf, standard medium speed reduction, 20 lbs

Chitin Armor
(Stormwrack pg 106 or Races of Faerun pg 157)
75 gp, +4 armor bonus, +4 max dex bonus, -3 acp, 30% asf, standard medium speed reduction, 20 lbs

Shell Armor
(Stormwrack pg 106 or Dragon Magazine #319 pg 42)
25 gp, +3 armor bonus, +3 max dex bonus, -2 acp, 20% asf, standard medium speed reduction, 20 lbs

Heavy Armor

Chitin Armor
(Dragon Magazine #319 pg 42)
100 gp, +5 armor bonus, +0 max dex bonus, -6 armor check penalty, 35% asf, standard heavy speed reduction, 35 lbs

[Chilingsworth]

I can't use the one from dragon mag, sadly.

Still, chitin does have some promise. Are any of those armors exotic armors, or are they all covered by the usual armor proficency feats?

[Gavinfoxx]

I don't think any of those are exotic, no. But the cheapest armor I know of with +4 armor class is Brigandine from A&EG. 30gp

[Chilingsworth]

I don't think any of those are exotic, no. But the cheapest armor I know of with +4 armor class is Brigandine from A&EG. 30gp

Unfortunately, the Arms and Equipment Guide is 3.0, technically. :smallfrown: My DM has imported many rules from Pathfinder, but as far as items go, it's 3.5 all the way.

[Chilingsworth]

On another note, how's this for heavy(-ier) infantry units:
(this is what I'm aiming for. I'll certainly have the orcs, wheather or not I get to turn them into blooded ones is another question.)
Individual soldier:

Blooded One Orc ftr 3

Gear:

Breastplate
Greatsword
Composite Shortbow +2
arrows (20)
buckler
dagger/handaxe
uniform
waterskin
backpack
4 days' trail rations
1 potion of cure light wounds
healer's kit

Squad:

15 soldiers plus 2 4th level NCO's (Crusaders), 1 4th level medic (cleric), and 1 7th level lieutenant (Warblade focused in white raven)

additional gear:
one healer's belt
one wand of lesser vigor (50 charges)
one signal mirror
2 50ft lengths of rope
one grapling hook
5 shovels
signal whistles for lieutenant and NCO's
extra rations
extra arrows: (about 500)
pack animals sufficent to carry above gear

Company:

4 squads plus:
2 7th level chaplains (clerics) 1 7th level arcanist (wizard) 1 10th level captain (Warblade, Crusader, or Paladin of Tyrrany)

one aspect mirror
one orb of mental renewal
one rod of bodily restoration
one spyglass
Two supply wagons to carry tents, bedrolls, extra rations, and varrious alchemical items

Additional Support:

Air cover

5 wizard 5's riding spider eaters, equipped with varrious nasty things to drop on foes, and their spells for strafing.

Also, the engineer corps:

Typical Soldier:

expert 3

leather armor
light crossbow
10 bolts
club
dagger
Uniform
backpack
healer's kit
2 days trail rations
two torches
flint and steel

Squad:

20 soldiers, plus 2 4th level NCO's (Experts), plus one 4th level arcanist (beguiler), plus one 4th level medic (cleric), plus one 6th level Lieutenant (Artificer)

Pack animals/ baggage train containing:

20 shovels
20 axes
10 50ft lengths of rope
1 grapling hook
lumberjack, mining, carpentry, and masonry tool kits
1 healer's belt
1 wand of lesser vigor (50 charges)
200 bolts
extra rations

Company: 3 squads
plus 1 master engineer (Artificer 9) plus one master of concealment (beguiler 10), plus one 9th level captain (Warblade)

one aspect mirror
one orb of mental renewal
one rod of bodily restoration
Extra rations
supplies sufficent to set up a forward base.
supplies sufficent to build at least one temporary bridge
pack animals and wagons as needed.


Also, I think I have the next level of organisation:

Regiment:

4 "Standard" companies, 1 "Heavy infantry" company, 1 "Engineering" company
plus: 1 arcanist captain (wizard 11), 1 chaplain captain (cleric 11), 1 Spy master (Bard, beguiler, or rogue 11), 1 Colonel (wizard, cleric, warblade, crusader, or paladin of tyrrany 13)

one aspect mirror
two sets of sending stones
six farspeaking amulets

additional support:

air cover:
3 elite air wings:
each consisting of 6 sorcerer 8s riding advanced spider eaters
can call in specialized strike teams
can call in aid from the capital (including the former PC's, by now 20th level and transformed into liches, vampires, deathknights, or similiar.)
can request logistical support or reinforcements via teleportation circle


If all this seems far fetched, well this is the current regime's military as I know it:

one fort, which our current adventure is concerned with overrunning (we just made level 5, this part of the adventure has taken us from level 3 to our current level)

about 60 normal soldiers (warrior 2s or expert1/warrior1's)
about 4 acolytes (cleric 1s)
5 captains (fighter or warrior 6's)
1 7th level wizard
1 7th level cleric
1 aristocrat 2/paladin 7 (the commander of the fort.)
Oh, and almost forgot: a Lantern Archon gestalt (kinda 9 lantern archons in one.)

So far, we've worn them down to just the wizard, one of the captains, the lantern archon gestalt, and the commander, mostly by taking out their patrols, though we did sneak into the fort and kill one of the captains in his sleep.

If you're wondering where I expect to get all the spellcasters from, military service will be asked of them in exchange for their training and other benefits.

(Think the relationship between the State Alchemists and the state of Amestris in Fullmetal Alchemist, except without the intention of using them as human fuel as such.)

[SowZ]

On another note, how's this for heavy(-ier) infantry units:
(this is what I'm aiming for. I'll certainly have the orcs, wheather or not I get to turn them into blooded ones is another question.)
Individual soldier:

Blooded One Orc ftr 3

Gear:

Breastplate
Greatsword
Composite Shortbow +2
arrows (20)
buckler
dagger/handaxe
uniform
waterskin
backpack
4 days' trail rations
1 potion of cure light wounds
healer's kit

Squad:

15 soldiers plus 2 4th level NCO's (Crusaders), 1 4th level medic (cleric), and 1 7th level lieutenant (Warblade focused in white raven)

additional gear:
one healer's belt
one wand of lesser vigor (50 charges)
one signal mirror
2 50ft lengths of rope
one grapling hook
5 shovels
signal whistles for lieutenant and NCO's
extra rations
extra arrows: (about 500)
pack animals sufficent to carry above gear

Company:

4 squads plus:
2 7th level chaplains (clerics) 1 7th level arcanist (wizard) 1 10th level captain (Warblade, Crusader, or Paladin of Tyrrany)

one aspect mirror
one orb of mental renewal
one rod of bodily restoration
one spyglass
Two supply wagons to carry tents, bedrolls, extra rations, and varrious alchemical items

Additional Support:

Air cover

5 wizard 5's riding spider eaters, equipped with varrious nasty things to drop on foes, and their spells for strafing.

Also, the engineer corps:

Typical Soldier:

expert 3

leather armor
light crossbow
10 bolts
dagger
Uniform
backpack
healer's kit
2 days trail rations
two torches
flint and steel

Squad:

20 soldiers, plus 2 4th level NCO's (Experts), plus one 4th level arcanist (beguiler), plus one 4th level medic (cleric), plus one 6th level Lieutenant (Artificer)

Pack animals/ baggage train containing:

20 shovels
20 axes
10 50ft lengths of rope
1 grapling hook
lumberjack, mining, carpentry, and masonry tool kits
1 healer's belt
1 wand of lesser restoration (50 charges)
200 bolts
extra rations

Company: 3 squads
plus 1 master engineer (Artificer 9) plus one master of concealment (beguiler 10), plus one 9th level captain (Warblade)

one aspect mirror
one orb of mental renewal
one rod of bodily restoration
Extra rations
supplies sufficent to set up a forward base.
supplies sufficent to build at least one temporary bridge
pack animals and wagons as needed.


Also, I think I have the next level of organisation:

Regiment:

4 "Standard" companies, 1 "Heavy infantry" company, 1 "Engineering" company
plus: 1 arcanist captain (wizard 11), 1 chaplain captain (cleric 11), 1 Spy master (Bard, beguiler, or rogue 11), 1 Colonel (wizard, cleric, warblade, crusader, or paladin of tyrrany 13)

one aspect mirror
two sets of sending stones
six farspeaking amulets

additional support:

air cover:
3 elite air wings:
each consisting of 6 sorcerer 8s riding advanced spider eaters
can call in specialized strike teams
can call in aid from the capital (including the former PC's, by now 20th level and transformed into liches, vampires, deathknights, or similiar.)
can request logistical support or reinforcements via teleportation circle


If all this seems far fetched, well this is the current regime's military as I know it:

one fort, which our current adventure is concerned with overrunning (we just made level 5, this part of the adventure has taken us from level 3 to our current level)

about 60 normal soldiers (warrior 2s or expert1/warrior1's)
about 4 acolytes (cleric 1s)
5 captains (fighter or warrior 6's)
1 7th level wizard
1 7th level cleric
1 aristocrat 2/paladin 7 (the commander of the fort.)
Oh, and almost forgot: a Lantern Archon gestalt (kinda 9 lantern archons in one.)

So far, we've worn them down to just the wizard, one of the captains, the lantern archon gestalt, and the commander, mostly by taking out their patrols, though we did sneak into the fort and kill one of the captains in his sleep.

If you're wondering where I expect to get all the spellcasters from, military service will be asked of them in exchange for their training and other benefits.

(Think the relationship between the State Alchemists and the state of Amestris in Fullmetal Alchemist, except without the intention of using them as human fuel as such.)

What class are you, btw? You'll want to have the power to back up your leadership.

[Chilingsworth]

What class are you, btw? You'll want to have the power to back up your leadership.

wizard/beguiler going into ultimate magus. I'm likely to form a council with the rest of my party, they're:

a cleric
an unarmed swordsage (planing to multiclass into crusader and go for master of nine, I think.)
a rogue
and a guy who's dread necromancer just died and is being replaced by an unknown quantity.
There's also a couple of NPC's on note:
one is the leader of our allied orcish horde, an extremely intelligent and competent (certainly for an orc) leader, and a devoted worshiper of Asmodeus.

Then there's our employer, the last remaining Asmodean cardinal. He might be a problem. Then again, I don't nessicarily want to rule the resulting nation, just design it (and at a minimum, be one of its ministers.)

Also, I think I can arrange it so that I have a secure aliance with the cleric, if the others do try to turn on me.

[EpsilRon]

A minor note. Slings are great back up ranged weapons, mostly because rocks are everywhere. They're great for emergencies and practically free, everyone should carry one.

On a more Major note... A field provisions box(Magic Items Compendium 160) costs 2,000 gp and produces enough food to feed 15 medium sized creatures for a day each time it is activated and can be activated once per day. This is a very good investment, let me put this in perspective, three good meals a day cost around 5sp per person or about 7.5 gp a day, therefore the free food will offset the cost of the Box in around Nine months or so... 267 days give or take. Why is this particularly good you ask? Because you will have 7.5 gp a day... or 225 extra gp a month to spend on other things like training or weapons. Its also an incredibly space and weight efficient, the average medium sized creature needs at least one gallon of water and at least a pound of food a day so assuming everyone in a squad has a pound of meat and two waterskins a day its... 135 pounds worth of supplies... or a one pound magic box, tough choice.

[Gavinfoxx]

A repealing trap of create food and water, and maybe mount, on a cart, is better than the field provisions box. And fighters make terrible soldiers. They can only fight, they don't have enough skills to do any of the other important parts of soldiering. Remember, for skills: commoner < expert < savant < factotum. Get people's first level as high up that ladder as possible!

[Chilingsworth]

A minor note. Slings are great back up ranged weapons, mostly because rocks are everywhere. They're great for emergencies and practically free, everyone should carry one.

On a more Major note... A field provisions box(Magic Items Compendium 160) costs 2,000 gp and produces enough food to feed 15 medium sized creatures for a day each time it is activated and can be activated once per day. This is a very good investment, let me put this in perspective, three good meals a day cost around 5sp per person or about 7.5 gp a day, therefore the free food will offset the cost of the Box in around Nine months or so... 267 days give or take. Why is this particularly good you ask? Because you will have 7.5 gp a day... or 225 extra gp a month to spend on other things like training or weapons. Its also an incredibly space and weight efficient, the average medium sized creature needs at least one gallon of water and at least a pound of food a day so assuming everyone in a squad has a pound of meat and two waterskins a day its... 135 pounds worth of supplies... or a one pound magic box, tough choice.

Noted: I'll add a sling to each soldier's basic gear.

I'll also add two provisions boxes to each squad. (All the nonstandard squads are over 15 people, and even the standard companies have support personel that bring their total above 60.) Actually, with the pack animals, should I invest in even more provisions boxes?

As for expert levels: My heavy soldiers aren't expected to be able to do anything but fight. The blooded one template (out of unapproachable east) will likely see to that. If I can't apply it to the orcs, then I'm not sure I'll be able to integrate them into the army proper at all. I might be able to get away with making some or all of my standard soldiers expert1/warrior1's though.

As for the create food and water trap... I don't think that will fly.

[Gavinfoxx]

Here's an idea for how the GM can systemize running different cities... FYI, Mlar is in Polyhedron #159.

Basic Idea:


Most of your population is Commoners. They are probably farmers of some sort, but they could be herders or fishermen or whatever.
You have a few Healers in each town. These are your hedge priests.
You have a few Warriors in each town. You have slightly more in fortified towns, which cost more money per turn (this is a simplification of that they need more space in farms to sustain themselves).

I'm trying to simplify what settlements can make, to make it somewhat like Heroes of Might and Magic, or perhaps more accurately, Kohan Immortal Sovereigns or even Age of Wonders. The idea here is that each city has to specialize to be really good at something, and you want the abilities of each city to be different than the other cities. Thus the loss of any given city has a major impact on the sorts of things you can do and the troops you can field.

Every Settlement is known for something special at game start. Each and every location can pick one tier 4 class that they are especially good at producing from List one.

Settlements larger than Villages have an extra 'slot'. This can be filled in two ways. Either a training camp for producing extra numbers of people from one of the options in list one, which is the main way an area can produce large numbers of people from that option, and lets you choose again extra classes that area produces from that camp, or to retrain people to have those classes. For example, if you have a martial training facility as the 'extra' facility, you can produce people from the Martial list beyond the small numbers of the wealthy that are produced naturally in each settlement. If you want to produce people with skillsets like those from the bottom of society, you can build a facility to do that. The second option is to have an option from List Two, to get access to more exotic classes. Filling an extra slot automatically lets you choose another Tier 4 class that such a place is known for. The Tier 4 class chosen doesn't have to be from the slot you just filled, though. It's just that bigger places tend to attract more capable people in general. The tier 4 classes are in brackets.

At the start of the game, you can't double slot from list number 2; that, along with other upgrades is to happen in actual gameplay (such as upgrading your Adepts to be Religious Adepts, for example).

The capital starts with two extra slots, rather than just one, being a City.

After game start, you can pay people to move to one of the training facilities created with the extra slot, so that more people end up a particular class - or even a particular build of a particular class -- for your army. This is stressful for the area, and drains your budget. However, it can be worth it if you want more than what places tend to produce naturally.

Sometimes, if you have been investing lots of money or time or attention into an area, or just as a random event, the DM might have someone exceptional come about in certain areas. Some suggested options for these are in double parentheses.

No one other than you and your cohort is above level 3 without DM intervention. No area produces Tier 3 or more powerful classes without DM intervention. Thus, your Cohort (you will be taking Leadership, yes?) is one of the more individually powerful people in your area, having T4, a customized build, higher ability scores, and is a level above the maximum that other T4 people can get... and you are incredibly exceptional in your lands.

No, Truenamer is not on this list because that class introduces lots and lots of headaches.


List #1:


CRAFTSMEN: For each settlement, pick two classes from this list that the craftsmen tend to have: Expert, Healer, Magewright, Mlar, [Master-Craftsman].

CRIMINALS: For each settlement, pick two classes from this list that the of people on the edge of society tend to have: Expert (with exotic skills allowed), Swashbuckler, Ninja, Lurk, Chaos Monk, Battle Dancer [Rogue, Savant, Nightstalker, Master-Professional]. If boosted by DM, might produce the occasional ((Psychic Rogue))

BUREAUCRATS: Each settlement has nobles whose job it is to do actual management and governing, so pick a class from this list of people who care about governing places. This is your aristocracy that doesn't care overly much about fighting: Aristocrat, Noble, [Savant, Master-Performer]. If boosted by the DM, this might produce the occasional ((Bard, Factotum)).

MARTIAL: Each town also has nobles whose job it is to generally be wealthy, and use that wealth to equip themselves and train themselves in the martial arts. These are your nobles whose job it is to defend the peasantry. Pick two classes from this list for each town: Paladin (and variants), Knight, Samurai, Fighter, Mariner (if near water), [Dungeon Crusher Fighter (this is, in general, fighters with various useful ACFs chosen; look at the fighter handbook if you want to know about them. Thug is a good example.), Marshal]. If boosted by the DM, might produce the occasional ((Warblade, Crusader, Ardent))

Note that Warriors are easy to produce. You don't need a facility to do that. Any commoner that you draft and give a few weeks of intense weapons training can be a Warrior.


List #2:


ASCETIC: For an area where people are introspective, like monasteries or whatnot, pick two classes from this list that such an area produces: Divine Mind, Monk, Soulborn, Soulknife, [Adept, Sohei]. If boosted by the DM, this area might produce the occasional ((Swordsage, Psychic Warrior, Wilder, Shugenja))

ARCANE: For areas where specialized arcane skills are taught, pick one class that such a place teaches: [Dragonfire Adept, Dragon Shaman, Spellthief, Warmage, Master-Sage] If boosted by the DM, might produce the occasional ((Beguiler, Duskblade))

NATURE: If it is a nature-y training area, it can produce pick one class this place teaches: [Barbarian, Ranger, Wilderness Rogue, Scout, Totemist]. If boosted by the DM, might produce the occasional ((Incarnate, Shaman, Druid with several nerfs, Ranger with a lot of useful obscure ACF's))

UNHALLOWED: An incredibly freaky, probably evil, place that is near indescribable can produce Eidolons, [Jester, Hexblade, Montebank, Warlock]. If boosted by the DM, might produce the occasional ((Binder, Dread Necromancer))

Examples:


Example village 1. This Village has an Asian theme, and is home to a small Ninja clan.
Craftsman: Mlar, Expert
Criminals-Slotted: Ninja, [Nightstalker]
Bureaucrat: Noble
Martial: Samurai, Paladin

Example Town with Extra Slot double-filled for Martial. This coastal town is especially good at training a wide variety of martial types of people, and in large numbers.
Craftsman: Magewright, Healer
Criminals: Expert, Swashbuckler
Bureaucrat: Aristocrat
Martial-Slotted: [ACF'd Fighter], Mariner, Knight, [Marshal]

Example town with a heavy nature and mounted combat and animal using focus
Craftsman: Healer, Expert
Criminals: Ninja, Battle Dancer
Bureaucrat: Aristocrat
Martial: Knight, [Marshal]
Nature: [Ranger]

Example Town with Extra Slot filled for Ascetic. This town is especially good at producing and exporting lots of goods, having Tier 4 in Bureaucrat and in Craftsman. Further, the people in the monestary don't need much equipment...
Craftsman: Expert, [Master-Craftsman]
Criminals: Lurk, Battle Dancer
Bureaucrat: [Savant]
Martial: Fighter, Paladin
Ascetic: Soulborn, Soulknife

Example Town focused 100% of crafting magical items. This town has access to lots of spellcasters that can make magical and psionic items that don't require casters of levels beyond 3rd. In other words, if you want a town where people can work together to attune gems, brew potions, craft cognizance crystals, craft universal items, craft wondrous items, infuse herbs, craft alchemical items, scribe scrolls, and ink psionic tattoos or spellstoring tattoos, this is the town to do it. If the item requires a power or spell or prayer or item creation feat that can be made by the abilities of characters level 3 or under characters from this list, it can be done. If you are curious where these things are from, go to realmshelps and search the feats by item creation; these are the things that can be made by characters of level 3 and under. This does not maximize invocations or supernatural abilities in general, just ones that can be used for item creation.
Craftsman: Healer, (Magewright OR Mlar)
Criminals: Lurk, [Nightstalker]
Bureaucrat: Noble
Martial: Paladin, Sentinel (NG Paladin)
Ascetic: [Adept]
If this is a capital, add either:
Arcane: [Warmage] OR
Unhallowed: [Jester]
This maximizes the actual prayers, spells and psionic powers available to the population for crafting into items.

Example Capital City with a focus in arcane and evil things, where people with spells or invocations or overtly supernatural abilities are considered more useful than those without.
Craftsman: Magewright, Mlar
Criminals-Slotted: Lurk, Ninja
Bureaucrat: [Savant]
Martial: Despot (LE Paladin), Paladin of Tyrrany (LE Paladin)
Arcane: [Dragon Shaman]
Unhallowed: [Warlock]


Tiers:

6: Aristocrat, Commoner, Divine Mind (CP 9), Warrior, Samurai (CW 6)

5: Battledancer (DC 26), Divine Mind (with Web Enhancements), Eidolon (Gh 16), Expert, Fighter, Healer (MH 8), Knight, Lurk (CP 13), Magewright (ECS 256), Mariner (LotT 13), Mlar (Polyhedron 159), Monk, Ninja (CAd 5), Noble (DCS 50), Paladin, Samurai (with Imperious Command feat), Soulborn (MoI 25), Soulknife, Swashbuckler (CW 11)

4: Adept (and variants), Barbarian, Dragonfire Adept (with Breath Effects), Dragon Shaman (PHB2 11), Fighter (Dungeon Crasher variant & similar useful variants), Jester (DC 36), Hexblade (CW 5), Marshal, Master (WotL 21), Montebank (DC 42), Nightstalker (Races of Ansalon 156), Ranger, Rogue, Savant (DC 45), Scout (CAd 10), Spellthief, Sohei (OA 27), Totemist, Warlock (CArc 5), Warmage (CArc 10)

3: Ardent (CP 5), Bard, Beguiler (PHB2 6), Binder (TM 9), Crusader (ToB 8), Dread Necromancer (HH 84), Duskblade (PHB2 19), Factotum (Du 14), Incarnate (MoI 20), Psychic Rogue (with powers), Psychic Warrior, Ranger (Wildshape variant), Shadowcaster (TM 111), Shugenja (CD 10), Swordsage (ToB 15), Warblade, Wilder

2: Binder (with Online Vestiges), Death Master (DC 31), Favored Soul (CD 6), Mystic (DCS 47), Psion, Sha'ir (DC 51), Shaman (OA 23), Sorcerer, Spirit Shaman (CD 14), Wu Jen (CArc 14)

1: Archivist, Artificer (ECS 29), Cleric, Druid, "Erudite" variant Psion (with Spell to Power ACF), Wizard

[Chilingsworth]

Here's an idea for how the GM can systemize running different cities... FYI, Mlar is in Polyhedron #159.

-Awesome rules subset that I'd really like to give a spin sometime-
Basic Idea:


Most of your population is Commoners. They are probably farmers of some sort, but they could be herders or fishermen or whatever.
You have a few Healers in each town. These are your hedge priests.
You have a few Warriors in each town. You have slightly more in fortified towns, which cost more money per turn (this is a simplification of that they need more space in farms to sustain themselves).

I'm trying to simplify what settlements can make, to make it somewhat like Heroes of Might and Magic, or perhaps more accurately, Kohan Immortal Sovereigns or even Age of Wonders. The idea here is that each city has to specialize to be really good at something, and you want the abilities of each city to be different than the other cities. Thus the loss of any given city has a major impact on the sorts of things you can do and the troops you can field.

Every Settlement is known for something special at game start. Each and every location can pick one tier 4 class that they are especially good at producing from List one.

Settlements larger than Villages have an extra 'slot'. This can be filled in two ways. Either a training camp for producing extra numbers of people from one of the options in list one, which is the main way an area can produce large numbers of people from that option, and lets you choose again extra classes that area produces from that camp, or to retrain people to have those classes. For example, if you have a martial training facility as the 'extra' facility, you can produce people from the Martial list beyond the small numbers of the wealthy that are produced naturally in each settlement. If you want to produce people with skillsets like those from the bottom of society, you can build a facility to do that. The second option is to have an option from List Two, to get access to more exotic classes. Filling an extra slot automatically lets you choose another Tier 4 class that such a place is known for. The Tier 4 class chosen doesn't have to be from the slot you just filled, though. It's just that bigger places tend to attract more capable people in general. The tier 4 classes are in brackets.

At the start of the game, you can't double slot from list number 2; that, along with other upgrades is to happen in actual gameplay (such as upgrading your Adepts to be Religious Adepts, for example).

The capital starts with two extra slots, rather than just one, being a City.

After game start, you can pay people to move to one of the training facilities created with the extra slot, so that more people end up a particular class - or even a particular build of a particular class -- for your army. This is stressful for the area, and drains your budget. However, it can be worth it if you want more than what places tend to produce naturally.

Sometimes, if you have been investing lots of money or time or attention into an area, or just as a random event, the DM might have someone exceptional come about in certain areas. Some suggested options for these are in double parentheses.

No one other than you and your cohort is above level 3 without DM intervention. No area produces Tier 3 or more powerful classes without DM intervention. Thus, your Cohort (you will be taking Leadership, yes?) is one of the more individually powerful people in your area, having T4, a customized build, higher ability scores, and is a level above the maximum that other T4 people can get... and you are incredibly exceptional in your lands.

No, Truenamer is not on this list because that class introduces lots and lots of headaches.


List #1:


CRAFTSMEN: For each settlement, pick two classes from this list that the craftsmen tend to have: Expert, Healer, Magewright, Mlar, [Master-Craftsman].

CRIMINALS: For each settlement, pick two classes from this list that the of people on the edge of society tend to have: Expert (with exotic skills allowed), Swashbuckler, Ninja, Lurk, Chaos Monk, Battle Dancer [Rogue, Savant, Nightstalker, Master-Professional]. If boosted by DM, might produce the occasional ((Psychic Rogue))

BUREAUCRATS: Each settlement has nobles whose job it is to do actual management and governing, so pick a class from this list of people who care about governing places. This is your aristocracy that doesn't care overly much about fighting: Aristocrat, Noble, [Savant, Master-Performer]. If boosted by the DM, this might produce the occasional ((Bard, Factotum)).

MARTIAL: Each town also has nobles whose job it is to generally be wealthy, and use that wealth to equip themselves and train themselves in the martial arts. These are your nobles whose job it is to defend the peasantry. Pick two classes from this list for each town: Paladin (and variants), Knight, Samurai, Fighter, Mariner (if near water), [Dungeon Crusher Fighter (this is, in general, fighters with various useful ACFs chosen; look at the fighter handbook if you want to know about them. Thug is a good example.), Marshal]. If boosted by the DM, might produce the occasional ((Warblade, Crusader, Ardent))

Note that Warriors are easy to produce. You don't need a facility to do that. Any commoner that you draft and give a few weeks of intense weapons training can be a Warrior.


List #2:


ASCETIC: For an area where people are introspective, like monasteries or whatnot, pick two classes from this list that such an area produces: Divine Mind, Monk, Soulborn, Soulknife, [Adept, Sohei]. If boosted by the DM, this area might produce the occasional ((Swordsage, Psychic Warrior, Wilder, Shugenja))

ARCANE: For areas where specialized arcane skills are taught, pick one class that such a place teaches: [Dragonfire Adept, Dragon Shaman, Spellthief, Warmage, Master-Sage] If boosted by the DM, might produce the occasional ((Beguiler, Duskblade))

NATURE: If it is a nature-y training area, it can produce pick one class this place teaches: [Barbarian, Ranger, Wilderness Rogue, Scout, Totemist]. If boosted by the DM, might produce the occasional ((Incarnate, Shaman, Druid with several nerfs, Ranger with a lot of useful obscure ACF's))

UNHALLOWED: An incredibly freaky, probably evil, place that is near indescribable can produce Eidolons, [Jester, Hexblade, Montebank, Warlock]. If boosted by the DM, might produce the occasional ((Binder, Dread Necromancer))

Examples:


Example village 1. This Village has an Asian theme, and is home to a small Ninja clan.
Craftsman: Mlar, Expert
Criminals-Slotted: Ninja, [Nightstalker]
Bureaucrat: Noble
Martial: Samurai, Paladin

Example Town with Extra Slot double-filled for Martial. This coastal town is especially good at training a wide variety of martial types of people, and in large numbers.
Craftsman: Magewright, Healer
Criminals: Expert, Swashbuckler
Bureaucrat: Aristocrat
Martial-Slotted: [ACF'd Fighter], Mariner, Knight, [Marshal]

Example town with a heavy nature and mounted combat and animal using focus
Craftsman: Healer, Expert
Criminals: Ninja, Battle Dancer
Bureaucrat: Aristocrat
Martial: Knight, [Marshal]
Nature: [Ranger]

Example Town with Extra Slot filled for Ascetic. This town is especially good at producing and exporting lots of goods, having Tier 4 in Bureaucrat and in Craftsman. Further, the people in the monestary don't need much equipment...
Craftsman: Expert, [Master-Craftsman]
Criminals: Lurk, Battle Dancer
Bureaucrat: [Savant]
Martial: Fighter, Paladin
Ascetic: Soulborn, Soulknife

Example Town focused 100% of crafting magical items. This town has access to lots of spellcasters that can make magical and psionic items that don't require casters of levels beyond 3rd. In other words, if you want a town where people can work together to attune gems, brew potions, craft cognizance crystals, craft universal items, craft wondrous items, infuse herbs, craft alchemical items, scribe scrolls, and ink psionic tattoos or spellstoring tattoos, this is the town to do it. If the item requires a power or spell or prayer or item creation feat that can be made by the abilities of characters level 3 or under characters from this list, it can be done. If you are curious where these things are from, go to realmshelps and search the feats by item creation; these are the things that can be made by characters of level 3 and under. This does not maximize invocations or supernatural abilities in general, just ones that can be used for item creation.
Craftsman: Healer, (Magewright OR Mlar)
Criminals: Lurk, [Nightstalker]
Bureaucrat: Noble
Martial: Paladin, Sentinel (NG Paladin)
Ascetic: [Adept]
If this is a capital, add either:
Arcane: [Warmage] OR
Unhallowed: [Jester]
This maximizes the actual prayers, spells and psionic powers available to the population for crafting into items.

Example Capital City with a focus in arcane and evil things, where people with spells or invocations or overtly supernatural abilities are considered more useful than those without.
Craftsman: Magewright, Mlar
Criminals-Slotted: Lurk, Ninja
Bureaucrat: [Savant]
Martial: Despot (LE Paladin), Paladin of Tyrrany (LE Paladin)
Arcane: [Dragon Shaman]
Unhallowed: [Warlock]


Tiers:

6: Aristocrat, Commoner, Divine Mind (CP 9), Warrior, Samurai (CW 6)

5: Battledancer (DC 26), Divine Mind (with Web Enhancements), Eidolon (Gh 16), Expert, Fighter, Healer (MH 8), Knight, Lurk (CP 13), Magewright (ECS 256), Mariner (LotT 13), Mlar (Polyhedron 159), Monk, Ninja (CAd 5), Noble (DCS 50), Paladin, Samurai (with Imperious Command feat), Soulborn (MoI 25), Soulknife, Swashbuckler (CW 11)

4: Adept (and variants), Barbarian, Dragonfire Adept (with Breath Effects), Dragon Shaman (PHB2 11), Fighter (Dungeon Crasher variant & similar useful variants), Jester (DC 36), Hexblade (CW 5), Marshal, Master (WotL 21), Montebank (DC 42), Nightstalker (Races of Ansalon 156), Ranger, Rogue, Savant (DC 45), Scout (CAd 10), Spellthief, Sohei (OA 27), Totemist, Warlock (CArc 5), Warmage (CArc 10)

3: Ardent (CP 5), Bard, Beguiler (PHB2 6), Binder (TM 9), Crusader (ToB 8), Dread Necromancer (HH 84), Duskblade (PHB2 19), Factotum (Du 14), Incarnate (MoI 20), Psychic Rogue (with powers), Psychic Warrior, Ranger (Wildshape variant), Shadowcaster (TM 111), Shugenja (CD 10), Swordsage (ToB 15), Warblade, Wilder

2: Binder (with Online Vestiges), Death Master (DC 31), Favored Soul (CD 6), Mystic (DCS 47), Psion, Sha'ir (DC 51), Shaman (OA 23), Sorcerer, Spirit Shaman (CD 14), Wu Jen (CArc 14)

1: Archivist, Artificer (ECS 29), Cleric, Druid, "Erudite" variant Psion (with Spell to Power ACF), Wizard


I don't think that my DM is using anything like those rules. As I said, the standard company-sized unit of the enemy regime seems to consist of:

at least 60 common soldiers (either war 2's or expert 1/ war 1's)
four acolytes (Cleric 1's)
5 captains (either warrior 6's or fighter 6's, not sure.)
1 chaplain (cleric 7)
1 arcanist (wizard 7)
and a commander (Aristocrat 2/Paladin 7)

Also a Lanern Archon Gestalt, but I don't think that's part of the usual hierachy.

Also, did I mention, this is the force we've spent levels 3-5 picking off and wearing down?

[EpsilRon]

Uhmm... while I admit such a thing would be cheaper by far I fail to see how it qualifies as a trap... unless it creates it in your lungs or something.

[Gavinfoxx]

Also, an Expert can be a competent martial artist character at level 3 or so (Iaijutsu focus, Marbles & mundane grease, Feycraft Gnomish Quickrazor, Education, Knowledge Devotion)!

Boon traps have precedent in Dungeonscape.

[SowZ]

Uhmm... while I admit such a thing would be cheaper by far I fail to see how it qualifies as a trap... unless it creates it in your lungs or something.

For whatever reason, it is cheaper/stronger to produce many magical effects in a trap as opposed to a wondrous item. People in game don't have to 'call' it a trap.

[Doug Lampert]

If you're planning to run patrols you shouldn't forget: Bracelet of Friends

One per squad.

Seriously, this lets you dump half the squad gear up to the company level and simply call in help when needed.

[Gavinfoxx]

Cause it's anchored to a larger thing, at least the size of a chest, and you have more room for components. Less miniaturization = cheaper.

[EpsilRon]

Ah Dungeonscapes, I always forget that one.

What do the squads do if they can't reach your magic food wagon?

[Chilingsworth]

Also, an Expert can be a competent martial artist character at level 3 or so (Iaijutsu focus, Marbles & mundane grease, Feycraft Gnomish Quickrazor, Education, Knowledge Devotion)!

Boon traps have precedent in Dungeonscape.

While this would be awesome, I don't think Iaijutsu focus exists in this campaign world, Also gnomes have been gone for several thousand years (and they took their quickrazors with them.) I have no idea if feycraft items exist, but I doubt we'd find many fey willing to deal with us.

The bracelet of friends is an interesting idea, but at 19k a pop (and a disposable item at that!) It's too expensive to issue on the squad level, too limited to be of much use to the company level, and the regimental level has its own sources of teleportation.

[Gavinfoxx]

Here's a character I made with the idea of focusing quite a bit on 'having the right gear for the job'...

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=304812

I would've like to have done the Enveloping Pit Trap, but apparently I didn't give him enough UMD for some reason. Still, there are lots of ideas for gear!

['Able' Xanthis]

While this would be awesome, I don't think Iaijutsu focus exists in this campaign world, Also gnomes have been gone for several thousand years (and they took their quickrazors with them.) I have no idea if feycraft items exist, but I doubt we'd find many fey willing to deal with us.

Hmm, lots of DM hard counters are in place, but you might want to look into Master NPC class (From one of the Dragonlance books, I think) as it is well worth it to produce items for your mundane troops. Also an idea of how large your kingdom is going to be would help a lot give us an idea of what you're going to have on hand and we might be able to help you more, Chilingsworth.

[Gavinfoxx]

Hmm, lots of DM hard counters are in place, but you might want to look into Master NPC class (From one of the Dragonlance books, I think) as it is well worth it to produce items for your mundane troops. Also an idea of how large your kingdom is going to be would help a lot give us an idea of what you're going to have on hand and we might be able to help you more, Chilingsworth.

I already linked him to the Master, Mlar, Expert, Magewright, etc. etc.

['Able' Xanthis]

I already linked him to the Master, Mlar, Expert, Magewright, etc. etc.

Dang didn't see that one, can't tell which links you dropped. Hello again Galvin Thanks for the links last time though helped me get past a little bit of GM block that I'd been having.

If we're going undead, and I see we are, I suggest the old Shadow Squirrel army tactic. With a cleric and a Shadow to start it all off you can get like five Shadows per day stalking the local wildlife. Oh, and once you get the country on it's feet you may want to buy a Pain Extractor or two, if at all possible, and then have your criminal elements (The ones you aren't under you thumb) and slap them in one of those, I think Galvin's Links may cover this as well. Again I am limited by how large the country is.

Hey Chilling how often does your country produce NPC with class levels in stuff like Binder and such. I understand a scarcity of Clerics, it is tier one, but what about other classes like Fighter and such. I'd really need more info to really help out man.

[Chilingsworth]

Hmm, lots of DM hard counters are in place, but you might want to look into Master NPC class (From one of the Dragonlance books, I think) as it is well worth it to produce items for your mundane troops. Also an idea of how large your kingdom is going to be would help a lot give us an idea of what you're going to have on hand and we might be able to help you more, Chilingsworth.

Well, I'm not certain (incidentally, I'm not likely to get to play around with this empire. This campaign is basically an exercise in adding to the backstory of my DM's campaign world. I'm just trying to help design the place, effectively. Well, that and securing my character's place in that world's history.)

What I know about the nation in "modern times" (some hundreds to a thousand years after our revolution (or a revolution founded on the same principles) succeeds:

Arafel is a nation ruled by a lich. They are an Asmodean theocracy. They have a powerful military composed of traditional military units (at least as strong as the current regime's company level units,) orcish hordes, and undead armies. The population consists primarily of humans, orcs, and sentient undead, with a smattering of half-elves, half-orcs, tieflings, and other assorted demihumans and other humanoids, all of which are (or at least can be) considered citizens.

I believe the population will be over 1 million, but I'm not sure by how much. The place as it stands under the current regime has three or four major cities, and many smaller communities.

Geographically, it's large enough to have a northern boarder abutting subartic tundra, but to be quite temperate in its southern regions. It has alot of seacoast on its eastern boarder, and a river that supplies ocean access and a large lake on its northern boarder.

For resources, there is certainly ample farmlands and loggable forests. There must also be a way to aquire ample supplies of metals (at the minimum iron and steel), though: They mass produce military issue weapons and armor, and have no shortage of spares in the armory of the fortress we've invaded. (I've been told that it is basically a typical fortress, and its garrison is also typical, though I'm not sure if the archons are typical. Basically, the forces we're facing now are the weakest units of note we're likely to encounter.)

There must be some education infastructure, because half of their basic soldiers have expert levels and all are at least 2nd level. Further, the rather small command we're facing uses 5 6th level soldiers as low-level officers, a 9th level character (an aristocrat/paladin) as the local commanding officer, and a cleric and wizard (each 7th level) as his assistants, plus four 1st level clerics as medics.

[Gavinfoxx]

If you can, try and get a 'Superior' steel with stats like Baatorian Green Steel. It's one of the best materials for being a 'Like Iron or Steel, but simply better' in the game.

Can you talk to the GM about using the Master or Savant as 'Like Expert, but Better' NPC class?

[Chilingsworth]

Dang didn't see that one, can't tell which links you dropped. Hello again Galvin Thanks for the links last time though helped me get past a little bit of GM block that I'd been having.

If we're going undead, and I see we are, I suggest the old Shadow Squirrel army tactic. With a cleric and a Shadow to start it all off you can get like five Shadows per day stalking the local wildlife. Oh, and once you get the country on it's feet you may want to buy a Pain Extractor or two, if at all possible, and then have your criminal elements (The ones you aren't under you thumb) and slap them in one of those, I think Galvin's Links may cover this as well. Again I am limited by how large the country is.

Hey Chilling how often does your country produce NPC with class levels in stuff like Binder and such. I understand a scarcity of Clerics, it is tier one, but what about other classes like Fighter and such. I'd really need more info to really help out man.

"My country" doesn't exist, yet. The country I'm trying to turn into my country, though seems to have the following proportions of personel in its military:

60 expert 1/warrior 1's
4 cleric 1's
5 fighter (or warrior, not certain) 6's
1 wizard 7
1 cleric 7
1 aristocrat 2/paladin 7

The town that fort was defending had about 2,000 people
of which one either was a wizard of 3rd level or higher, or had access to one (sold scrolls and low level magic items)
The rest were probably commoners and experts.
Incidentally, this town was described as a relatively important border town, but still backwoods compared to towns further south.

Binders don't exist in this world.

The classes that I know exist:

The standard NPC classes out of the DMG

All PHB classes
All ToB classes (quite common in this world, but we haven't run into any enemy martial adepts in this campaign, yet.)
Beguilers
Psions (rare in this particular country)
Wilders (similiarly rare)
Physic Warriors (similiarly rare)
Warlocks (unknown rarity)
Artificers (unknown local rarity)
Dread Necromancers (unknown rarity, but will become more common after the current regime is defeated.)
Archivists (unknown rarity)

classes I know donot exist:

All ToM classes
All Incarnum classes

Generally speaking, PC classes seem to be much more common than I'd expect in a standard campaign world.

[Gavinfoxx]

Basically, my list was the way it was for purposes of asking the GM to expand what he considers 'NPC classes', so that there is a wider variety of classes to use for npc's!

Maybe you could talk to him about expanding his list of NPC classes at least a little??

[Chilingsworth]

Basically, my list was the way it was for purposes of asking the GM to expand what he considers 'NPC classes', so that there is a wider variety of classes to use for npc's!

Maybe you could talk to him about expanding his list of NPC classes at least a little??

All the PC classes are already available for NPC's.

I also hope to talk to him about adding the magewright and maybe the urban adept.

[Gavinfoxx]

Except that the less powerful classes aren't common in the world, for some reason. That's what I mean by npc classes -- classes that the game world considers common, and easy to get into, and which abound. Give the world a bit more depth, yaknow?

[Chilingsworth]

Except that the less powerful classes aren't common in the world, for some reason. That's what I mean by npc classes -- classes that the game world considers common, and easy to get into, and which abound. Give the world a bit more depth, yaknow?

Well, he does have the courier npc class, I think its out of oriental adventures? But, I haven't really examined it, plus it's not at all common locally afaik.

Well, considering we don't have access to a copy of the dragonlance setting, and stuff from dragon mag and the like is considered highly suspect at best, (and third party material/ other people's homebrew is just Ha Ha... no.) the only additional npc classes I can think to offer are the magewright and urban adept.

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, he does have the courier npc class, I think its out of oriental adventures? But, I haven't really examined it, plus it's not at all common locally afaik.

Well, considering we don't have access to a copy of the dragonlance setting, and stuff from dragon mag and the like is considered highly suspect at best, (and third party material/ other people's homebrew is just Ha Ha... no.) the only additional npc classes I can think to offer are the magewright and urban adept.

What about PC classes that SHOULD be NPC classes? CW's Samurai, MiniHB's Healer, PHB II's Knight, PHB's Monk, CPsi's Lurk, CAdv's Ninja, CPsi's Divine Mind, PHB's Paladin, MoI's Soulborn, XPH's Soulknife, CW's Swashbuckler, PHB's Fighter? In addition to Magewright, Urban Adept, and Religious Adept?

Even without Noble, Mlar, Master, etc.?

[Chilingsworth]

What about PC classes that SHOULD be NPC classes? CW's Samurai, MiniHB's Healer, PHB II's Knight, PHB's Monk, CPsi's Lurk, CAdv's Ninja, CPsi's Divine Mind, PHB's Paladin, MoI's Soulborn, XPH's Soulknife, CW's Swashbuckler, PHB's Fighter? In addition to Magewright, Urban Adept, and Religious Adept?

Even without Noble, Mlar, Master, etc.?

Not sure about samurai, though I think it just got dropped. Healer is gone (I actually played one in his savage tides campaign, and quite enjoyed it.) I'm not sure about the knight. The monk has been replaced with unarmed swordsage. We've never used the Lurk. The ninja still exists, and I think has been given some upgrades. No divine minds. The paladin has been given a significant overhaul (actually, each god has his/her own paladin variety. When I listed "paladins of tyrany" I wasn't really acurate.) No incarnum classes. Soulknife has been given some upgrades. Not sure about swashbuckler. Fighter has been given some upgrades, but is basically used as an npc class and as a dip.

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, the unupgraded versions, then, to be used as NPC's?

I also like the Savant as an NPC class, even though it is Tier 4. It fits the 'skilled lackey' slot between Expert and Factotum.

And Dragon Compendium Volume 1 is a good WotC book!

['Able' Xanthis]

"My country" doesn't exist, yet. The country I'm trying to turn into my country, though seems to have the following proportions of personel in its military:

60 expert 1/warrior 1's
4 cleric 1's
5 fighter (or warrior, not certain) 6's
1 wizard 7
1 cleric 7
1 aristocrat 2/paladin 7

The town that fort was defending had about 2,000 people
of which one either was a wizard of 3rd level or higher, or had access to one (sold scrolls and low level magic items)
The rest were probably commoners and experts.
Incidentally, this town was described as a relatively important border town, but still backwoods compared to towns further south.

Binders don't exist in this world.

The classes that I know exist:

The standard NPC classes out of the DMG

All PHB classes
All ToB classes (quite common in this world, but we haven't run into any enemy martial adepts in this campaign, yet.)
Beguilers
Psions (rare in this particular country)
Wilders (similiarly rare)
Physic Warriors (similiarly rare)
Warlocks (unknown rarity)
Artificers (unknown local rarity)

classes I know donot exist:

All ToM classes
All Incarnum classes

Generally speaking, PC classes seem to be much more common than I'd expect in a standard campaign world.

This actually helps a whole lot. 2000 is a fairly large settlement for a 'backwoods' border town. This means that the country is largish and perhaps has three or four Metropolis.

The fact of PC classes being more common is both good and bad. When you rule I'd say that is a good thing, but whilst you take over every PC class is going to be heads and shoulders above their NPC classed brethren, including those under you.

The gear you've got can be created by fab spells and then enchanted such, which is what you want.

Geez, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to his cutting out entire classes, that I can see anyway.

I hear you, Gavin.

[SowZ]

This actually helps a whole lot. 2000 is a fairly large settlement for a 'backwoods' border town. This means that the country is largish and perhaps has three or four Metropolis.

The fact of PC classes being more common is both good and bad. When you rule I'd say that is a good thing, but whilst you take over every PC class is going to be heads and shoulders above their NPC classed brethren, including those under you.

The gear you've got can be created by fab spells and then enchanted such, which is what you want.

Geez, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to his cutting out entire classes, that I can see anyway.

I hear you, Gavin.

Well, incarnum is a fairly obscure magic source. It makes sense to me that a setting won't have that type of magic.

[Chilingsworth]

Well, incarnum is a fairly obscure magic source. It makes sense to me that a setting won't have that type of magic.

Yeah, he considered adding Incarnum and ToM, but decided against it because:

a. He didn't want to bother learning entirely new mechanics on top of the (fairly massive) homebrewing he was experimenting with. and
b. ToM was horribly writen, and Incarnum had little support outside its book.

The classes I didn't list as either "definately in" or "definately out," might exist, at least some of them (just realised I forgot to add the healer in the definately out category...) I haven't looked through all of what amounts to a massive compendium he's printed out for his campaign world, yet.

['Able' Xanthis]

Right then, let's see how about Dread Necromancer's as healers for the undead troops via Charnel Touch. Your gear dose look good though, just a tad expensive to outfit an entire national army, but other than money issues I would have to say this is a solid plan for now. Just my opinion though you should continue getting advice from the good people here who are really good at this kind of thing.

[Chilingsworth]

Right then, let's see how about Dread Necromancer's as healers for the undead troops via Charnel Touch. Your gear dose look good though, just a tad expensive to outfit an entire national army, but other than money issues I would have to say this is a solid plan for now. Just my opinion though you should continue getting advice from the good people here who are really good at this kind of thing.

Yeah, that plus necrocarnexes (necrocarnexi?) Clerics will make decent undead healers, too of course, since we'll be using clerics to an evil power (though not nessicarily evil clerics.)

Interestingly, before the current regime came to power (and outlawed public expression of all non-tyr faiths, especially Asmodeus) The local church of Asmodeus was Lawful evil rather than Lawful Evil. Indeed, the man who funded the orphanage my character grew up in was imprisioned (and the orphanage disolved) due to accusations of asmodeus worship. (Part of my backstory, dm OK'ed it and said it was certainly plausible.)

The local Church of Tyr (ostensively Lawful Good) is more like Lawful good. Plus racist against half-elves (before the tyrans took over, the royal family was composed of half elves) and all other semihumans/non humans. Also, they condone torture and gruesome executions (drawing a quartering, immolation.) Note, that they have sufficent access to anit-lie magics, and charm magics that torture shouldn't be needed by any definition.

The upshot is, 1. The Tyrans managed to turn a relatively beign Asmodean church into an active force for evil, and 2. inspite of that, the Asmodean-ruled regime may well end up being less evil (at the very least, in the treatment of its own citizens) in many ways than the Tyran one. (Yes, we'll be evil, but we'll be pragmatic about it. Torture is a less effective means of interrogation than magic, for example. Racism is distasteful to my character (and many of my fellow party members) and also denies us access to potentially valuable talent.)

[Chilingsworth]

Also, the militia (which in times of war will include potentially every ablebodied adult not in the regular army and in times of peace will include something like 1/30th of that number [locals taking turns patroling their own towns and villages]):

Typical Soldier:

Com1/war1 Or expert 2 (universal conscription ftw!)

padded armor
club
shortspear
dagger
sling
uniform
backpack
waterskin
flint and steel
bedroll
healer's kit

Squad (typical on duty forces for a settlement of hamlet size or greater, or for 3-4 smaller communities):

10 common soldiers plus 1 medic (adept 2) plus one militia sargeant (expert 1/war2 or expert 2/war1)

Additional gear:
forward opperating base (basically one or two huts, plus a few tents, and a basic outer wall; means to set a signal fire or other nonmagical signal method. Usually placed near a traveling chokepoint like a local crossroads)
signal whistle for the NCO and medic
two shovels
one wand of lesser vigor (25 charges)

Company: (usually headquartered in a settlement of village size or larger)

5 squads plus one local field hospital (also serves the medical needs of the local communities) staffed by one adept 4, with one each adept 2 and expert 2 assistants, plus one militia arcanist (wiz 2, an apprentice performing some of the "practical" part of his education.) and a milita lieutenant (cleric, Paladin, fighter, warblade, or crusader 2) similiarly, an officer cadet overseeing his first command.
signal whistles for the lieutenant and arcanist

Additional equipment:

oversees the local armory, including gear sufficent to arm the adult population of their assigned area up to the militia standard, plus one squad of regular troops.
Half of one set of sending stones (the other half in the possession of authorities in the nearest large settlement.)

Additional support:

Can call on the regular military for support via sending stone (always at least a couple days march away from the nearest relief)

Airborn scout/harrier wing:

2 wiz 2's mounted on spider eaters (trainee flyers.) Not as well supplied with nasty things to drop on enemies, but still have some spells to strafe with.

The militia set up is inspired by something I read about Thailand's local militas. Also, logistical support personel (i.e. the regular army's baggage train) is generally made up of militia personel.

[ArcturusV]

So you have kind of a decent idea going here for generic troops. There's a few things I would suggest but this is mostly based on Campaign Terrain. An empire's army who fights in the desert should have a very different loadout from one fighting in wooded foothills and such.

1) Every soldier outside of "Officer" level should have a Pioneer's Kit.

Said kit would include basic tools for making a go of something between rest stops at fortifications. Handaxe is a good start but you might also want shovels and picks, chains, hammers and nails, etc. The idea here is that you want soldiers that, if something goes wrong, they can over the course of a few days construct some crude fortifications for themselves. And in fact should be trained to do so rather than just sitting around, unprotected by a campfire, waiting to be slaughtered by some 1st level rogue with a knife. A good company should be able to build a simple fort in about 2 days, at most. That is your goal. And by simple fort I mean something like wooden palisades with some arrow slits in it, a gate they can close and bar, and enough shelter that they shouldn't be sleeping on the ground under the stars. And this should be SOP for any unit which is being deployed to a region without it's own fortifications/village already for any length of time.

2) More specialization of troops.

Instead of having one generic kit for all soldiers of a certain rank, then having a few specialists sprinkled in. You should really have more like 3-5 troop types (Again depending on campaign terrain specifics), and use equipment to give them different ways to fight. The archetypes I would suggest would be:

Blunt Object and Board (What you already have). As an empire that routinely uses undead, they should be prepared to deal with Undead as well, so blunt weapons makes sense.
Dedicated Archers. Longbows, arrows, maybe a hatchet for personal defense as a holdout weapon. Might want to give them the effect of having a relevant archery feat to represent their specialized training.
Outriders. Need a mobile cavalry element (Again if Terrain supports it), to take advantage of flanking manuevers and rapid emergency deployment, not to mention mounted personnel often do a much better job at Scouting/Harrassing. Standard weapons for this might be a crossbow, or spears. Don't go heavy on the armor as they are supposed to be light cavalry. DO go heavy on the weapons though as they should pack enough power to effect a battle as a mobile reserve, a mounted charge that can sunder a last hold out of enemy forces, etc.
Pikers. Reach weapons work a lot better in armies than they necessarily do in small scale combat. It only makes sense that for every 1/2 "normal" fighters as you have, they would have someone with a long range polearm doing some over the shoulder style formation fighting.
Trainer. By this I don't mean an NCO that whips people into shape (Though also a good idea). What I am talking about is the use of animals and beasts for combat, since this is DnD. Having squads who have things like trained wardogs only makes sense. Their innates like Scent and tracking bonuses could be very useful. It is a cheap way to bolster your fighting forces (Takes less time, energy, and money to raise a dog from childhood to fighting trim than it does to get a Half Elf from the Womb to Soldier Status). And a properly trained beast like a wardog is more than capable of putting down the low level forces that an army comprised of level 2/3 soldiers would likely face.

[Chilingsworth]

Thanks for the tips, Arcturus!

I definately see the benefits of adding archers and beast trainers to the forces. Calvary seem to be likewise a good idea. Also of giving the standard troops more engineering/wilderness survival potential.

I'd be concerned with overburdening individual troopers with too much gear if they carried such things. So, I'd guess the solution would be to have pack animals carry most of such gear at the squad level.

As for pikemen: I'm expecting this army to fight in loose formations to avoid area effects. This is because I intend to make large use of area effects and expect my rivals to learn to copy my tactics. Given that, I'm not sure how useful reach weapons would be. At least for my normal living troops.

Now, my heavy troops could make use of longarms, and I expect to use mindless undead en masse. Since I'll probably be making them from fallen enemy dead, they should have the required profficencies to wield longarms. I'll probably equip my mindless skeletons with a combination of longarms and bows. Each unit would also have a dread necromancer commander and at least one necrocarnex as a supplimentary healer.

Now, sentient undead would be another matter. The bulk of them would be awakened skeletons (or Karnathi skeletons if my DM lets the nation figure out how to make those.) They would be full fledged citizens of the nation, not disposable weapons. They would probably be used in a manner similiar to my living troops (except maybe I'd use them in situations when I expect resupply to be an issue, or harsh enviornments, since both things are much less of a problem for them.)

More powerful sentient undead probably wouldn't be integrated into the regular military at all. Instead, they would be elite specialists or special purpose units.

[Gavinfoxx]

The best all-round cheap anti-weird-stuff weapon is a Cold Iron Morningstar. Cheap, works on several things.

And Reach weapons are generally quite useful, as long as you can also threaten adjacent, in general! Just make sure that people are equipped to threaten things that are far away and things that are nearby, and you are good.

[Chilingsworth]

The best all-round cheap anti-weird-stuff weapon is a Cold Iron Morningstar. Cheap, works on several things.

And Reach weapons are generally quite useful, as long as you can also threaten adjacent, in general! Just make sure that people are equipped to threaten things that are far away and things that are nearby, and you are good.

Good point. Works on demons and fey, that I know of. If regular soldiers are facing any of those types that have DR over cold iron and magic.... that's a situation they'd be trained to retreat from and call in back up.

[Agent 451]

Hey Chilingsworth, have you looked at the Forge or War Eberron supplement? It details the different troops that the Five Nations used during the Last War, giving breakdowns of companies based on EL. Might be worth a look for you, considering Karrnath use a lot of undead troops.

[Chilingsworth]

Hey Chilingsworth, have you looked at the Forge or War Eberron supplement? It details the different troops that the Five Nations used during the Last War, giving breakdowns of companies based on EL. Might be worth a look for you, considering Karrnath use a lot of undead troops.

No, I haven't. I'd heard the book title, but thought it was a premade adventure, rather than a splat book. Thanks for the tip. I'll certainly look into it if I can find a copy. :smallbiggrin:

[Zanthy1]

Check out the Heroes of Battle book, on page 143 it has a sample list of different human soldiers and their equipment. Most only have armor, a shield, a weapon, a light crossbow with 20 bolts, and maybe a potion or 2

[Chilingsworth]

Check out the Heroes of Battle book, on page 143 it has a sample list of different human soldiers and their equipment. Most only have armor, a shield, a weapon, a light crossbow with 20 bolts, and maybe a potion or 2

Yeah, I know. The armies in my dm's world are slightly better equipped than that, or at least better staffed (not a lv 1... anything among them, as far as I can tell.)

[Gavinfoxx]

A good thing is to give people ONE rune (as in inscribe rune) of Faith Healing set to the god of your nation, in a breakable (balsa wood, whatever) box, on their waist. That way anyone can jam a person's hand into the box, and thereby save their life, if they are down. Better than potions, easier activation, cheap, and can save lives!

[Chilingsworth]

A good thing is to give people ONE rune (as in inscribe rune) of Faith Healing set to the god of your nation, in a breakable (balsa wood, whatever) box, on their waist. That way anyone can jam a person's hand into the box, and thereby save their life, if they are down. Better than potions, easier activation, cheap, and can save lives!

Nice idea, but I don't think my dm has inscribe rune as an available item creation feat.