Druid Tristalt options

[Dunkoro]

I've never played even gestalt, but now I'd like to join a tristalt game here on this forum. We're starting at lv 3 and we can take double progression prestiges. I'd like to play druid 20 on one side of gestalt, but for two others I have 4 different ideas:

Monk 1/ Tashalatora Psychic Warrior 19
Monk 20(ruled to gain Swordsage maneuver and stance progression)
Totemist 20
LA +4/Warshaper 5/Master of Many Forms 10/X 1

Which of those choices is the best? What race should I pick? Any other advice on this topic?

[chaos_redefined]

I'm assuming you wish to emphasize your melee capabilities, considering that most of the options you've presented aid your melee... In which case, I'd say either monk and totemist.

[Dunkoro]

And if I wanted also to get Warshaper, in which part would you put it in a build of: druid 20//monk 20 or PsyWar 20//totemist 20 ?
Isn't Master of Many Forms great when combined with Unarmed Attacks (garagantum size ftw!)?

[Pilo]

I think, as it is a tristalt and as you want to be a melee character, that you should at least have a full bab on one class. As you seems to want to be monk too, you may want to emphasize on grapple so sneak attack fighter (from Unerthed arcana or on the srd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter)) may be a good choice because it is possible to deal dammages with natural attack while grappling and grappling character are denied their dexterity bonus (source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple)).

Or you can take warblade.

[SowZ]

I think, as it is a tristalt and as you want to be a melee character, that you should at least have a full bab on one class. As you seems to want to be monk too, you may want to emphasize on grapple so sneak attack fighter (from Unerthed arcana or on the srd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter)) may be a good choice because it is possible to deal dammages with natural attack while grappling and grappling character are denied their dexterity bonus (source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple)).

Or you can take warblade.

With the added benefit of a d10 HD. d8 HD in a tristalt game is very eeehhhh.

[Dunkoro]

After a little bit of searching and thinking, I came to the following build:

Druid 5/Arcane Hierophant 7/Planar Shepherd 8//Wizard 5/Warshaper 5/Spellthief 1/Trapsmith 1/Ultimate Magus 8//Barbarian (ruled to gain Warblade maneuvers and stances) 20

What do you think of that?
What could I replace the 2 unrelevant levels of spellthief with?
What race would be best suited for this build (we use 38 point-buy)?
Could I possibly fit a few levels of Swiftblade in here somewhere?

[EpsilRon]

Druid20//Cleric20//Ardent20

Done. :smallcool:

[Vaz]

If you don't mind being slightly MAD (Int), (14 with Headband +6) take an Archivist. Learn every Divine Spell in the game?

Of course if you invest in Int, that opens up Arcane Int casters.

Consider Swordsage for some stupid stuff.

Also; Consider Master Transmogrifist. It is not utterly amazing for Caster Level (its 1/2 Progression), but if you like the idea of Shapeshifting over casting (after all you still have Druid Casting), then the ability to get sime tasty buffs while shaped changed. Might want to see if you can get favoured shape to apply to alternate form as opposed to polymorph.

Its capstone is pretty ninja. Try it with an outsider for true shiggles. (Bouman, planar handbook for +Wis and penalty to dump stat).

[docnessuno]

Druid 20 // Warblade 20 // Monk 1 / Dominant ideal Ardent 19

[Rebel7284]

Taking Factotum to 8 allows you to take extra standard actions... this is stupid good in gestalt and even stupider in tristalt. Factotum 11 allows you to always overcome spell resistance too.

Also consider:
Cleric 4 for initiate of Mystra and DMM persist
Dweomerkeeper for Supernatural spells
Incantatrix for MOAR free metamagic
Conjurer 1 for Abrupt Jaunt
Holt Warden 1 for adding domain slots to your druid

[SowZ]

Taking Factotum to 8 allows you to take extra standard actions... this is stupid good in gestalt and even stupider in tristalt. Factotum 11 allows you to always overcome spell resistance too.

Also consider:
Cleric 4 for initiate of Mystra and DMM persist
Dweomerkeeper for Supernatural spells
Incantatrix for MOAR free metamagic
Conjurer 1 for Abrupt Jaunt
Holt Warden 1 for adding domain slots to your druid

Not to mention the skill points. In a tristalt game, I would shoot for Full BAB, 6+ SP, and d10 HD, probably.

[Vaz]

I've planned a pretty sound Charisma build before, itS Gestalted Charisma can breach 70 without Spell buffs. Throw in Stuff like Greater Visage, and whatnot, gained from Casting potential and it is through the roof.

[Dunkoro]

Ok then, how about I play
Wildshape Ranger 20//Erudite 20//LA +2 (I need hints here, propably Feral)/Monk 1(for Tashalatora)/X (need help here as well) 1/Warshaper 1/Master of Many Forms 7/Warshaper 3/Master of Many Forms 3
It requires me to be a Changeling or Shifter, but that's not so bad of a thing. I get baddas wild shape forms, with all Ex abilities (MoMF 7) and 3-times per day SU abilities (Metamorphic Transfer) while still being Spell-To Power Erudite and having Unarmed damage of a Monk of my level. Sadly, only d8 hit dice, but one can't have everything.
Would I be better off taking Crusader or Swordsage maneuvers and stances progression on Ranger? (houserule)

[Darth Stabber]

Since no one else has brought up the race angle, I will offer my personal suggestion: Pixie.

It's 4 LA, and does everything but strength.

[Dunkoro]

We're starting at level 3, so picking an LA +4 race might be a little hard (especially since I want to take monk @ 3 to take tashatalora there).
Bonus question; how about taking Scout 1 and getting Swift Hunter for giant Skirmish bonuses?

[Darth Stabber]

We're starting at level 3, so picking an LA +4 race might be a little hard (especially since I want to take monk @ 3 to take tashatalora there).
Bonus question; how about taking Scout 1 and getting Swift Hunter for giant Skirmish bonuses?

Use the SS progression.

[Immabozo]

whats tristalt?

[SowZ]

whats tristalt?

Take three classes. Combine them. Take all the class features of each and the best BAB, HD, SP, and Saves for each one. So a level 1 Wizard/Rogue/Fighter would have Sneak Attack, a bonus Fighter Feat, d10 HD, full BAB, 8+ SP, and all good saves. Yes, it is very strong.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) preferably of Anhur (CG), otherwise one of Hathor (NG), Isis (NG), Nephthys (CG), Sebek (NE), or Thoth (N), LA +1/ Master of Many Forms 7/ Warshaper 4/ MoMF +3/ [class] 5

For a Cha-focused build (highly recommended), include the following:
Sorcerer 18 casting, and/or Sublime Chord 10 casting.
-Persistent Spell tricks for all-day Sirine's Grace and Ruin Delver's Fortune x3.
Cobra-Strike Chaos Monk 2 + Ascetic Mage feat.
Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) 2, possibly 3 or 4 depending on your primary weapon.
(Cloistered) Cleric 1 + Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) of Freedom (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny) 3, or Blackguard 3 if evil.
Mystic Wanderer 1, from Magic of Faerun.

The above adds your Cha bonus to saves twice, and to AC four times. Plus 9th level arcane spells, and you can make a custom Runestaff (MIC p224) via Ancestral Relic or Item Familiar to shatter the spells known limitation. You can even put non-Sorcerer/Bard spells on it and UMD it to cast those as though they were spells known from your class list.

Be sure to use Incantatrix 4+, Abjurant Champion 5, and possibly Paragnostic Apostle 2+ to advance your casting. Get Iron Will via the Otyugh Hole in CS for 3,000 gp or RP costs.

[Immabozo]

Wow, so it is gestalt for 3 classes? I wanna try octoalt!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wow, so it is gestalt for 3 classes? I wanna try octoalt!

Sextalt sounds better.

[Immabozo]

Sextalt sounds better.

Touche, touche!

[Darth Stabber]

Sextalt sounds better.

Let's go with omnistalt. You gain the class features of every base class, and start with straight 18s for base ability scores.

[Immabozo]

Let's go with omnistalt. You gain the class features of every base class, and start with straight 18s for base ability scores.

tier -87? Maybe -88?

[Darth Stabber]

tier -87? Maybe -88?

Maybe only -80, assuming prestige classes are disallowed.

[Dunkoro]

Returning to my options, how does sound that build:

StP Erudite 20//Druid 20//Phrenic 2/Monk (for tashalatora) 1/X 1/Crusader (for wall of blades, funny to have without any actual "blade) 1/Master of Many Forms 7 (how does a Cryohydra with FH 22 at lv 12 sound to you?)/Warshaper 4/Master of Many Forms 3/X 1
Coincidentally, I could also become Pun-Pun @ 12th level, because I take Overchannel and Metamorphic Transfer anyway. =] But I likely won't (I wonder why...)

[chaos_redefined]

It sounds like a horrible mish-mash of things that won't be significantly more powerful than a StP Erudite or a druid on their own.

I still think sticking to a simple Druid//Monk//Totemist would be sufficient. Sure, you could try to cram in some Warshaper, but I don't think you benefit that much from it. If you must put it in, I'd lose some Monk levels. If you really want Master of Many Forms, then you'd probably be better off going:
Wildshape Ranger 5/Master of Many Forms 10/Warshaper 5//Monk 20//Totemist 20.

You appear to be new to optimization, and have heard that some things are powerful, and figure that mashing them all together must make them really powerful. This isn't quite true. What you want to do is synergize. Find a class you like, and choose other classes that augment it. (I apologize if you aren't new, but that's how it appears at the moment).

[Sliver]

Being the DM of said game, I hope there is an actual concept binding this bundle of classes you have in mind, Dunkoro.

For those who wonder, most melee classes get a maneuver progression that's thematically fitting. Because why not.

[Dunkoro]

Ok, you might be right about me overdoing it...
Druid//Monk//Warshaper/MoMF was my original concept, but then I learned of ability to become Criohydra @ 12th with all extraordinaries of her. Additionally, I wanted to get full Unarmed strikes of a monk and decided using Tashalatora will be more optimal (although Psychic Warrior might be better synergistic).
As for Binder; I've never played with any Icarnum class, are they easy to learn? (My previous GM banned them without any apparent reason)
And you ARE right, I am pretty new to optimization, and want to try a lot of different ideas at once.
So, putting this straight, would
Druid 20 (maybe mixing with Planar Shepherd, because why not)//Psychic Warrior 20//Phrenic (2)/Monk 1/Ranger 2 (wall of blades yay)/MoMF 7/Warshaper 4/MoMF +3/Ranger +1
be a better character in synergy (WIS SAD yay)?
And it's also not very hard to explain this combination, at least im my opinion.

[HunterOfJello]

As for Binder; I've never played with any Icarnum class, are they easy to learn? (My previous GM banned them without any apparent reason)


The Binder is from the book, Tome of Magic. It is not an Incarnum class. Jumping into a high level Incarnum character would be quite difficult and have a hard learning curve due to the MASSIVE number of options available. Binder, on the other hand, is very easy to learn and has a very small learning curve.

[Sliver]

As for Binder; I've never played with any Icarnum class, are they easy to learn?

I'm confused, are these sentences actually related? Binders aren't related to Incarnum. But both aren't too hard to learn, IMO.

[Dunkoro]

The Binder is from the book, Tome of Magic. It is not an Incarnum class. Jumping into a high level Incarnum character would be quite difficult and have a hard learning curve due to the MASSIVE number of options available. Binder, on the other hand, is very easy to learn and has a very small learning curve.

Oh, I guess I got him mixed up with Totemist =]
Isn't Binder/Druid a little bit strange combination though? (In my opinion Vestiges are pretty unnatural...)