I remember Pokemon fever

[Scowling Dragon]

*Puts on Pink tinted goggles* :smallcool:

Yeah. Those where the days. Pokemon was everywhere. The cards, the games, the cheesy anime movies. Everybody in my class had a copy and we played all year long. Trading, finding secrets, battling.

And each new game had us frothing at the mouth. Yeah.....I miss those times.

Whilst online is OK I guess, it does not have the same connection power as multiplayer in person. And that was the last time I remember such a continuously large gathering of people with the same videogame who where willing to play together. Yeah. When 95% pokemon designs still felt cool.

I wish I could revisit that time period just for a little while longer.:smallfrown:

[Avilan the Grey]

Hmmm... I remember Pokemon Fever. I think I was playing CIV 4 then. :smallbiggrin::smallwink::smalltongue:

[Beacon of Chaos]

I remember it like it was yesterday...

...but actually it was 3 days ago when Gen 6 was announced. :smalltongue:

[RoyVG]

I remember it like it was yesterday...

...but actually it was 3 days ago when Gen 6 was announced. :smalltongue:

^this, pretty much this.

I remember getting the Charizard card in a booster pack one day, and finding a Dutch translated version a couple of days later. 2 Charizards in one week! I believe I was one of the first to have a Charizard card in my class. When the cards were the biggest hype of all, some stores even sold Japanese cards and charged outrageous prices for a single booster, easily 5 times more than a typical booster. Especially Japanese Gen 2 boosters were expensive and could reach up to 10 times the price of a normal booster.

I was very excited when Gen 2 was announced. I bought a Gameboy Color JUST for Pokemon Gold. I remember taking my GBC to school, JUST so I could do Mystery Gift.

I also won tickets once to see the first movie, and went to the second one as well.

[boj0]

Sure smells like nostalgia in here...

Everything you "miss" about the franchise is still here; and if you want to see a modern gathering of trainers, you just need to find the closest VGC tournament. Heck, the anime is gearing up for a new season and I believe there are still a few movies to be localized.

Pokémon never left.

[Scowling Dragon]

Well not really. Yes gen 6 is announced but half the people are yelling "Stagnation! And the pokemon designs are getting really lazy"

It dropped allot of its more casual fanbase through really stagnant gameplay.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well not really. Yes gen 6 is announced but half the people are yelling "Stagnation! And the pokemon designs are getting really lazy"

It dropped allot of its more casual fanbase through really stagnant gameplay.

Trouble is, it might well have dropped even more if it did have major changes. Sometimes people like "more of the same with a few tweaks."

(I do, otherwise I wouldn't own every single main Pokemon game - plus both Gamecube RPGs - from the last three generations...)



Also, there are currently 649 Pokemoon, plus presumably another hundred or so to come in Generation 6. It's not unreasonable - given how many Pokemon are based around animals and such - they might be stretching a bit at this point. By comparison, D&D's bestiary started getting full of silly nonsense LONG before that (in whichever edition you care to name...) And I don't think many other computer games have even a fraction of that sort of number of what is essentially, playable characters slash monster designs (and without pallet-swaps, which Pokemon has ON TOP OF 649 species...) I think it rather a testament to Pokemon's designers that they manage to crank out even a few awesome new ones every generation.

However, the asertion sometimes made that Generation 1 had al the best Pokemon designs I find laughable from the Generation that brought us Lickitung, Mr Mine, Voltorb, Ditto, Jynx and Farfetch'd...

[Scowling Dragon]

"More of the same with a few tweeks" is unhealthy for a franchise in the long run.

Whilst it may have a wallop of hardcore fans now, it may suffer like the comic book industry due to a lack of fresh blood due too too much samey content.

Its going to be incredibly tough to get into once there are 1000+ pokemon.

I would suggest some high quality spin offs. I suggest a Super smash bros themed game where all the 4 moves are assigned to the ABXY buttons.

[Eldonauran]

Fever? :smallconfused:

Mine must have never broken. I've been playing the video games for 14 years now.

The industry may eventually die out, but the modding community will live forever. Most of my pokemon game collection is 90% modded ROMs that I play on my phone/PSP/PC. I've got a DS (original) and a GBA SP to play my other games (from Red all the way to White 2).

[DiscipleofBob]

"More of the same with a few tweeks" is unhealthy for a franchise in the long run.

Whilst it may have a wallop of hardcore fans now, it may suffer like the comic book industry due to a lack of fresh blood due too too much samey content.

Its going to be incredibly tough to get into once there are 1000+ pokemon.

I would suggest some high quality spin offs. I suggest a Super smash bros themed game where all the 4 moves are assigned to the ABXY buttons.

Not really. The comic book industry suffers because all these characters have long, convoluted, and sometimes really silly histories involving retcons.

And I love hate to sound like a Team Rocket member, but Pokemon in the games are basically tools. It'd be like adding more weapons to a video game.

While I would love a real-time Pokemon Battle spinoff, the spinoffs in general are usually rather lacking, and translating all of the moves into realtime actions could get ridiculous as far as programming and animation is concerned.

[Scowling Dragon]

Thing is, most people don't care if a tool has some EV hyper eugenics breeding thing that can be used to bread the ultimate life-force. Or a bunch of numbers that slightly differentiate it from the OTHER almsot identical Pokemon.

Outside of the designs simply being lackluster (Most legendaries-Heck most gen 5 pokemon just feel like a blob of stuff mashed together) by the time you reach 600+ weapons it just scary to newcomers.

[Gnomish Wanderer]

I dint catch pokemon fever until it was already dead at my school, and even then for only a couple of weeks. I am not one to follow a trend. But yeah, I cannot say whether or not it is stagnating as i am not one with the pokecommunity.

[DiscipleofBob]

Thing is, most people don't care if a tool has some EV hyper eugenics breeding thing that can be used to bread the ultimate life-force. Or a bunch of numbers that slightly differentiate it from the OTHER almsot identical Pokemon.

Outside of the designs simply being lackluster (Most legendaries-Heck most gen 5 pokemon just feel like a blob of stuff mashed together) by the time you reach 600+ weapons it just scary to newcomers.

Not when you only put a fraction of the Pokemon as available in the main game, as they've consistently done. Then the only time all those Pokemon matter is if you're going for the completionist "Gotta catch em all" mentality, which, granted is what the series is trying to impress up people, but except for people who play the meta, it's not really going to affect anything.

And for the most part I actually liked Gen V's designs better than previous Gens.

I do wish they'd put a New Game Plus feature or something that would let you go through the game with a full team and actually have gym leaders and the like be challenging though.

[tensai_oni]

I agree that while the franchise remains wildly popular, Pokemon Fever is a thing of the past - at least where I live, dunno about other countries. The 'mons were omnipresent in any and all media, advertising, merchandise, etc. It was hard to find anything not Pokemon-related at times. Now it's dialed down.

And when it came out? I was the exact precise age to consider it kiddy and decide to want to have nothing to do with it, and that's what I did. Now, as most definitely not a fanatic or anything but nevertheless a person who plays and enjoys the Pokemon games a lot: I look back and see what a fool I've been. Everyone is a moron in their early teenage years, and I was no exception.

EDIT:
The games are most definitely not stagnating. There are improvements with each gen, not just something for hardcore tournament players but a lot of stuff for a casual to enjoy as well. Triple battles, rotation battles, Pokemon musical theatre, Battle Subway, making movies - don't tell me it was all in Gen I. Also the interface becomes more streamlined and thus easier to play, and each gen brings us more cool creatures to catch. It's obviously a matter of taste, but even if you find 90% of them crap, that's still 10% interesting ones.

[Traab]

I stopped playing around diamond/pearl, and stopped watching the show around the time of max and that girl. I forget which series that was. Honestly, the game was getting to the silly point. I liked the rock paper scissors setup, but then they started making every single pokemon 2-5 types with a long list of strengths and weaknesses and it just got annoying to me. Then they started releasing those remakes of earlier titles, black/white? Platinum? I forget. And that just finished the job for me. I still have a gbc with the original pokemon game in it, thats good enough for me if I ever get the urge to play.

[tensai_oni]

Sorry? No Pokemon is more than 2 types, and that's how it was from the beginning. Platinum is a third title to accompany Pearl and Diamond, like Blue to Red and Green. Speaking of Red and Green, they were remade as gen III FireRed and LeafGreen titles - BEFORE Pearl/Diamond came out. White and Black are gen V games, they are neither remakes nor remade.

[RPGuru1331]

The list of strengths/weaknesses, on a per-pokemon basis, was always pretty long.

Charizard's lists of strengths and weaknesses, almost entirely unchanged by generations:


Weak to:
Rock 4×
Water 2×
Electric 2×
Immune to:
Ground 0×
Resistant to:
Fighting ½×
Bug ¼×
Steel ½×
Fire ½×
Grass ¼×

I actually still like modern pokemon designs though. Plus, I didn't think 95% of the designs were cool even when I was a kid, so at least some of the nostalgia is misplaced. I'm not sure whether kids still play it at school, but I'm pretty sure it's still ridiculously popular. Isn't it one of the top selling games basically every time it's released?

[Aotrs Commander]

"More of the same with a few tweeks" is unhealthy for a franchise in the long run.

As clearly evidenced by Pokemon's lack of wild success on every release after fifteen-odd years and twenty-odd games (not counting side games or the new ones announced)...!


I would suggest some high quality spin offs. I suggest a Super smash bros themed game where all the 4 moves are assigned to the ABXY buttons.

Speaking personally: Eeergh, no thanks. The absolute last thing I want is any thing involving any kind of button mashing. I don't even like that in the minigames (or indeed, any other game). I like my games steady and requiring a minimum level of hand-eye co-ordination and reactions, thank you.


Thing is, most people don't care if a tool has some EV hyper eugenics breeding thing that can be used to bread the ultimate life-force. Or a bunch of numbers that slightly differentiate it from the OTHER almsot identical Pokemon.

You'd be wrong on that, as a cursory examination of places like Smogon would show.

I suspect you'd find the bulk of Pokemon's market falls into two categories: children (and thus you don't want to make it more complex for and who aren't that discerning anyway1) and dedicated nutters like me (the sort of people who will buy BOTH games in a two-game release eventually) and the even more dedicated nutters (like those on Smogon who are into the metagame and the sort of people who actually bother to breed for perfect IVs).

Heck, it's worth noting I bought a Gamecube second-hand SOLEY for Collosseum (and later Gale of Darkness), I only have Gen III Pokemon games for my GBA, and a very small number of non-Pokemon games for my DS.

That said, I wouldn't be upset at something like the aforementioned Gamecube games as side-games.


EDIT:
The games are most definitely not stagnating. There are improvements with each gen, not just something for hardcore tournament players but a lot of stuff for a casual to enjoy as well. Triple battles, rotation battles, Pokemon musical theatre, Battle Subway, making movies - don't tell me it was all in Gen I. Also the interface becomes more streamlined and thus easier to play, and each gen brings us more cool creatures to catch. It's obviously a matter of taste, but even if you find 90% of them crap, that's still 10% interesting ones.

And this is also true.

With Gen IV on the horizon, I hoping that things like the challenge mode (and easy mode I guess) in Black/White 2 will become a default option (rather than something you can only activate if you have completed Black 2 or know someone locally who has.)

For the record, I like a fair number of Pokemon from every generation. Gen V, has, in fact, got some shiney new favourites (Archeops, Krookodile, Cinccino), as well as it's share of lame ducks (Vanillice, or literally in the case of Duckett...!) I also find a large number of Pokemon I didn't like at first glance grew on me (especially when they appeared in the anime) and I think the increasing amount of animation in the games merely heightens that effect.

(Note also that I am old enough that I was not a kid when I got into Pokemon - I was in university - so there isn't really much nostalgia for me, Generation wise!)



1Not to say they aren't discerning at all, but that they do tend to be more forgiving and/or accepting.

[Beacon of Chaos]

Someone mentioned a pokemon battle game? Will this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-Xk9vrAGGY) suffice?


I also find a large number of Pokemon I didn't like at first glance grew on me (especially when they appeared in the anime) and I think the increasing amount of animation in the games merely heightens that effect.
THIS. There are so many pokemon I like that I initially hated. Most of Gen 2, in fact. And despite no longer watching the anime, I see enough gifs, clips and stills that I can always find a new favourite.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Bluhhh... *rubs forehead* The standard games have the worst system I can imagine. One Pokemon, SOMETIMES two, at a time, no movement grid, turn-based system with no action bar. I like the Mystery Dungeons much more, where you actually have your full party available at any given time, have to maneuver and set their tactics to use them all effectively, and Agility and other Speed-boosters are actually worth a damn (of course, they went from being "only Splash is worse" to "hey guys, let's break the action economy!"). But even those games aren't immune to BS-type attacks. Why isn't every pokemon, or even legendary, in the Explorers games? Not even the expansion?

[Scowling Dragon]

Jade Dragon^

Pretty much. As a kid (And every other kid I knew) I couldn't wait until tech advanced enough for my Pokemon to be able to move around and use its cool moves in a moving environment......But it didn't. It barely changed.

You know whats all the rage with kids nowdays? Spyro Skylanders. Gee. I wonder why? :smallamused:

But still Pokemon sales are perfectly-

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/sparks98765/Gener.png
Oh.......

And White and Black 2 are at 6.1 Mill if you need to ask


Except for minor changes, nothing much changed. Even when the technology was already speeding ahead.

Double battles are a nice extra, but their not really a big innovation, same thing goes with tripple battles.

Everything else that was mentioned are just side-quest minigames.

Its a static system that hasn't changed except for increasingly dull barrels of pokemon.

[Aotrs Commander]

But still Pokemon sales are perfectly-
Oh.......

I had a good look at sales figures on wiki. If you look further at them - in context with everything else, you'll see that all the games but the most recent release (which hasn't even had a half a year to build up it's sales), and Platinum are within the top ten games sold on the DS, period (and platinum is within the top twelve). And there have been more Pokemon games released on the DS than any previous game system (nine).

And I also note that that graph also ignores the remakes in Generations III and IV, which would add another twelve million to the figures for both generations.

For comparison, those sales figures - if wiki is to be believed - in the mid-teen millions, exceed anything the PS3 has sold, virtually everything the PC has sold, and Diamond and Pearl out-sold top-end Xbox 360 games sold in the same period. "Only" 6.1 million (after three months) is more games sold than Skyrim on XBox (and Skyrim only has about twelve million games sold total after eight months; it's more than Starcraft II has sold...

Pokemon is not struggling.

It may not be quite the runaway cash-cow it might have been at it's height, but I bet souls to sabres that Modern Call of Black Gear Duty Ops won't be selling in the same sort of millions, fifteen years down the line either...!

Some more action-orientated spin-offs, maybe (though if one looks at the sales figures for Mystery Dungeon or Pokemon Ranger...), or slightly different takes on the RPG, wouldn't hurt the franchise (see recently released Pokemon Conquest), but the main games should stick to their basic core concepts.



There's nothing fundementally wrong with turn-based games, either.



Honestly, though, Scowling, if the thought of a hundred new Pokemon to play with in a new generation doesn't excite you, Pokemon is probably not the game for you anymore, since that is most of the draw that keeps the people who are still fans - like me - coming back game after game, and will continue to do so as long as they keep making them.

[Zevox]

Trouble is, it might well have dropped even more if it did have major changes. Sometimes people like "more of the same with a few tweaks."
Normally, I'd agree with you, but oddly, Pokèmon is the one series where I think the whole "stagnation from lack of changes" thing actually applies to me. When I was younger, I loved the first two generations, but playing the third and fourth as I got older I wound up with a steadily-increasing feeling that I may as well just be playing the older games, because nothing substantial had changed. I played the hell out of my Blue and Silver versions, to the point of having completed Pokèdexes and level 100 teams, but by the time I played Diamond I found my interest died the moment I finished the Elite Four and so felt I had "beaten" the game. I haven't even felt the slightest desire to pick up any of the newer ones since then - which is remarkable considering I'm the sort of person who was annoyed at Dragon Quest 9 for introducing non-random encounters to that series.

I think they'd need to do quite a bit of tweaking to make the games work for me again, though. Probably the easiest would be a drastic increase in difficulty, as one of my bigger problems is that I have no interest in the multiplayer (especially given the weird stuff I've heard of people doing to optimize their Pokèmon for that, which sound way too boring and time-consuming for me to ever try), but the rest of the game is so dead easy once you have a reasonably diverse team capable of striking most weaknesses that it just ceases to be entertaining because you have no chance of losing. I don't know if even that would do it though, and after that I'd get into wanting pretty major overhauls to the combat (completely re-balancing things so that the "only four moves per Pokèmon" thing could be done away with, for one example) and to the story (could we have one that doesn't revolve around beating eight gym leaders, stopping some random team of villains, and then beating the Elite Four, please?), which I doubt will ever happen with how entrenched those aspects are at this point.

[Triaxx]

That? That's not Nostalgia. I started playing with Pokemon BLUE edition, on an Original Gameboy. The one with the contrast wheel you could use to navigate dungeons without actually needing Flash? That's Nostalgia.

I still like Gen 2 best. It just had the most fun features. I remember getting up early in the morning to play so I could catch the morning time creatures.

[RPGuru1331]

BnW has only sold 15 14.6 million units in 3 years. That is totes mcgotes a dying series there, let me tell you what.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/250656/top-10-in-sales-pokemon-franchise/

Also, I find it incredibly suspect that the 'casual fanbase dropped from stagnant gameplay'. Do you have any idea of what sells amongst genres generally termed 'stagnant'? Given that kids are still the most vied over market, I think Pokemon is hurt more by the fact that it's a game their parents played than by 'stagnant gameplay'. I mean, there's a lot of possible reasons that sales are lower now than they used to be, and unless science is done to it (unlikely), I wouldn't really speak with real certainty over what's happening to it.

What we know:
Sales are lower now than they were decades ago
Sales are still ridiculously high
It does indicate pokemon is less popular now than it used to be, but considering Pokemon was insanely popular then, that's not really a surprise.

[OracleofWuffing]

And I also note that that graph also ignores the remakes in Generations III and IV, which would add another twelve million to the figures for both generations.
The source that graphic comes from considers those remakes as "other games in the pokemon universe," classifying it alongside games like Pokemon Trozei, Pokemon Ranger, and Pokemon Pinball. In that sense, yes, there has been a high-quality spin-off or two, and yes, they have sold fantastically, and no, you have actually enjoyed them greatly. It doesn't even have any data on Spyro Skylanders, too, so... Do I need to even bring up that it still believes the "Soon to be announced" "Enhanced" game to follow up Pokemon Black and White will be called "Gray/Grey?" :smalltongue:

All's I knows is that I've traded and battled with well over 10 times as many people as I did back in the series' alleged heyday, where I was bullied and taunted for playing it.:smallwink:

[RPGuru1331]

All's I knows is that I've traded and battled with well over 10 times as many people as I did back in the series' alleged heyday, where I was bullied and taunted for playing it.

In terms of sales and exposures, it really isn't alleged. But this is also true for me as well. I used to only have 2 or 3 people I could trade with. Now I can trade with anyone I know who owns the games. There are randoms I can battle, if I choose to do so again. Compared to the old days, that's AMAZING.

[The-Mage-King]

That? That's not Nostalgia. I started playing with Pokemon BLUE edition, on an Original Gameboy. The one with the contrast wheel you could use to navigate dungeons without actually needing Flash? That's Nostalgia.

My comrade! A fellow grognard Initial Infected!




I still like Gen 2 best. It just had the most fun features. I remember getting up early in the morning to play so I could catch the morning time creatures.

Ooh, yes. Gen 2 was awesome. Though the seasons added in Gen 5 are fun, as well, and B2/W2's plot is good.



Anyway, something to say on the topic of the thread...


*To the tune of Crocodile Rock*
I remember when 'mon was young...
Everybody had so much fun
Linking cables and trading Mews
And a Charizard and Chansey too

[Scowling Dragon]

And I also note that that graph also ignores the remakes in Generations III and IV, which would add another twelve million to the figures for both generations.


Im not saying that it isn't a big franchise. Im saying its a franchise continuously in decline.

Which it is.

The remakes sold a total of 10 mill for Red/Green and 11 Mill for Gold/Silver. Those are not that great sales for pokemon.

If X and Y have a large leap of sales over black and white then I will take my words back.

But as I see it now, I have no motivation to buy a new pokemon game except for it looks pretty.

[Morph Bark]

"More of the same with a few tweeks" is unhealthy for a franchise in the long run.

Whilst it may have a wallop of hardcore fans now, it may suffer like the comic book industry due to a lack of fresh blood due too too much samey content.

To be fair, the franchises that run that way have endured for longer than most. Mega Man, for instance, is a prime example. Superhero comics too. They may be suffering now, but before that? They lasted for a pretty long time. Basically, it's like this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html), kind of.

Check the list of top selling video game franchises (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises). Most of them are "more of the same with a few tweaks".

[Drascin]

Jade Dragon^

Pretty much. As a kid (And every other kid I knew) I couldn't wait until tech advanced enough for my Pokemon to be able to move around and use its cool moves in a moving environment......But it didn't. It barely changed.

You know whats all the rage with kids nowdays? Spyro Skylanders. Gee. I wonder why? :smallamused:

It is? Curious. Were it not for the internet I wouldn't know Skylanders exists, and I'm a teacher (meaning I get to hear a lot of kids talk about what they like).

[Scowling Dragon]

Well it exists if you know it or not, and the franchise recently surpassed the 500,000,000$ mark (Selling more then Star wars and Transformers). Pokemon sold $$$ more in its heyday, but Skylanders currently sells less merchandise. And Skylanders is harder to quantify as its games are harder to perfectly identify.

Whilst currently mario games feel samey, it did go through major evolutions before. The styles of gameplay have changed in the past while, and im interested in what the newest 3D mario will be.

Tetris is a basic puzzle game, and Grand theft auto adds allot with each installment and the transition between 2-3 was a big leap into 3D gameplay.

[OracleofWuffing]

Im not saying that it isn't a big franchise. Im saying its a franchise continuously in decline.

Which it is.
Make up your mind about what you want to say, and say things that actually mean what you want to say, because...


http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/sparks98765/Gener.png

See that spike where Pokemon Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum is? If there's a spike, by definition, it is not constantly declining. It is inconstantly declining. Which is something anyone can say about every franchise ever.


The remakes sold a total of 10 mill for Red/Green and 11 Mill for Gold/Silver. Those are not that great sales for pokemon.
Except that when you figure those sales into the chart by generation, like Aotrs advised, you'll see that the generation 3 and generation 4 eras outsold the generation 2 era.


And Skylanders is harder to quantify as its games are harder to perfectly identify.
It's not my fault you picked something that's hard to identify.