RP problems...

[Kerilstrasz]

OK.. i need help from Heavy RP players & DMs on that...

in my group we ( I ) have a problem...
we are a kinda big group (6 players) and its kinda messy when at a given time we all want to do or say something... and usually turns up to comments like:
".. but i wanted to do that and Sara did that thing and now i cant" or "I wanted to say that,but Bob said the other thing and now my statement would sound useless, or stupid."
That's one example... the other is...
Lets say that Bob wants to play a character that from the RP point of view is something like Teal'C from Stargate Series.. a always quiet guy that never talks,
only talks when someone direct asks him something and even then it would just use the minimum words possible. I understand that this could be a bit problematic,
cause DM couldn't know if the player is actually participating or just be there for the fights alone... My Dm said that the player should let the DM know what
the character is thinking, but the problem i see is that, the player don't want the other players to know that, and even if he did, talking about his character
thoughts all the time, or even writing em to a paper for the DM is too time consuming.
Another problem i spotted...
how do you dodge stereotypes like "A barbarian is stupid" even though he has 10+ Int and he is literature(ranks in languages)?? or "Rogues are greedy, so rogues are thieves" ???
Even another..
A player who cares to be properly and lots off times over geared (always within WBL) and at any given time , tries to get more supplies or use his skills to get
more money/gear, get to be and called Scroutz MacDuck ...
There are more topics but i want bore you more...

[Norin]

Lets say that Bob wants to play a character that from the RP point of view is something like Teal'C from Stargate Series.. a always quiet guy that never talks,
only talks when someone direct asks him something and even then it would just use the minimum words possible. I understand that this could be a bit problematic,
cause DM couldn't know if the player is actually participating or just be there for the fights alone... My Dm said that the player should let the DM know what
the character is thinking, but the problem i see is that, the player don't want the other players to know that, and even if he did, talking about his character
thoughts all the time, or even writing em to a paper for the DM is too time consuming.

For this i would suggest that the player of this less vocabular character describes what the character is doing more. Describe his stance ("my char is just leaning on the bar with a small smirk on his face, watching the bar brawl go on..."), his expressions, ("my char frowns a bit and looks rather annoyed when Bob and Ted starts arguing about the magical axe in the chest we just found"), his body language ("my char's shoulders drop and he looks a bit defeated, big eyes staring at the green dragon that takes flight from behind the hill over yonder"), etc.

That way the player and his character can participate in social things even without speaking in-char.

[Vizzerdrix]

RP in large groups can be tough. The only idea I have is to take turns with it. Set an order by either RP encounter or session and whoever's turn it is gets first reply. You could even use Init for conversations so everyone gets a chance to talk (could even work out things like readied actions for subjects mentioned and what not).

Class stereotype can be hard to get away from, but not imposable. You'll just have to fluff it up a bit. The Barbarian may be a bibliophile, or the rogue could be an honest locksmith and businessman. I've done the rogue one myself. Totally threw the DM for a loop when I said I was paying taxes on my share of the loot from a dungeon crawl and that I was going to register my lockpicking business with the town guard.

[Gullara]

There's really no reason stereotypes should have an impact on the perception of your character. In theory at least. In practice, I imagine that might be a different story. But my point is, your character is defined by how you RP them, not my what's one their character sheet. The mechanics should support the fluff, not constrain your RP. If your barbarian is smart, then he's smart despite their class.

Of course, I'm not certain whether this issue is in character or out of character.

If it's IC, then people should react to your character as they're played, not what their class is. Now, if your barbarian is walking around wearing a leather loin cloth, then it makes sense that some other characters/NPCs would view them through the lens of the stereotype. That's fine, and potentially good RP. But if characters are reacting to your character based on their class, even though your character doesn't present them self in a way that suggests their class, then that's kind of metagaming, and should be frowned upon.

As for if the issue it OoC... I dunno, tell the other players to smarten up? :smalltongue:

[Kerilstrasz]

let me give you an example...
the barbarian in our current group.. literature and with int of 13 , many times
provided tactics or gave suggestions about things that you could say a military
man could provide... but because of the stereotype, he is treated as not doing
proper RP (cause a stupid barbarian couldn't possible know tactics) and he
decided to dip into fighter class to support his choices...
I found that frustrating... the stereotypes i mean.. don't you agree???

[jaynus006]

I run very RP heavy games. The number one thing is you have to have your players on board. If you have 3 players who want to play with an emphasis on RP and one playe who wants go "get drunk and handsy with the be wench" you might have problems. If they are all interested in playing heavy RP then here are a few things that might help.

Elect a face, everyone may wanna talk but in a real situation do you think the high priest is going to listen to half a dozen voices coming at him at once?

Prepare for RP like you would combat. Not every situation lets you prepare in advance but you can still get the basics. If your in a situation that requires diplomacy you can have the party meet before hand to discuss where try stand. Letting everyone argue about it before slows the story to flow smoother when the encounter occurs.

When it comes to "dumb" smart characters there a couple ways to handle it. Remember int is more related to book smarts, an your barbarian may think he knows it all because he leaned to read, his pride can lead him I junk to stupid conclusions. Also I am pretty against exceptionally stupid characters, if every one of low intelligence charged randomly into danger or swallowed every bubbling liquid they come across there wouldn't be a lot of low int races. Also if he wants to be a smart barbarian there is no reason he shouldn't be. A barbarian who has been educated might be ashamed if his simple upbringing and try to hide it. He also knows when his friends are in danger he has little choice but to let his rage take him.

The problem often arises with people not only stereotyping classes but stats as well. A 10 int means you're average intelligence. What's average? Someone might excel at math and logic but not grasp fine arts well. Swine might do well if he has time to think things through but in a pinch often makes bad choices. CN is NOT the closest to EVIL you can play, a LG character can often have a better excuse to resort to violence long before. The stats are a designed for game mechanics and it's ok to over look them a little when role playing.

For your silent player. That one is difficult, I am pretty against silent brooding loner types into games. If you describe your characters as "you see me hiding in the shadows unseen by all" then I am going to have problems. If he is silent but massive he can invest into intimidate. A hulking figure standing behind your party's face can be intimidating enough. Even if stats say otherwise he can be considered the bruiser of the party, the enforcer whose presence is there to show you mean business. Maybe he is analytical, maybe he lacks the charisma to do the talking but his sense motive is spot on and after a discussion he can share his feeling on how things went down. If the player is not interested in playing a silent character who doesn't interact unless he is spoken to then it was probably a poor character choice for a heavy RP game.

Also Vizzer LOVE the honest rogue! I woulda granted you plenty of cookies if you ran that in any of my games

[Gullara]

I imagine it would be quite frustrating, yes. Is it the other players that are saying that it's improper RP? If so, point out that he's not unintelligent. Also, if he's from a militant culture, then point out that there's no reason why he shouldn't have some understanding of tactics. It's combat, and combat should be something he would know well.

If they insist on persisting to treat him like he's dumb just because of his class, then I don't know what to tell you. They're not being fair at all, and apparently can't be reasoned with.

[jaynus006]

If the NPCs or PCs are discounting him. Have the barbarian attempt to explain himself a few times. After constant opposition he finally slams his fist in the table and in a rage. He screams about his entire life being devoted to battle and that the he refuses to be part of a plan he knows will fail because everyone else is too prideful to listen to a savage. Once his rage has cooled he can explain himself again hopefully to more open ears.

If it is players not PCs making this happen then you have a problem that needs addressed away from the table.