Bear Warrior vs Frozen Dwarf Smash builds

[jeice]

So I'm working on a Barbarian/Fighter style build for a 3 person group where I'm going to be the primary/only melee combatant. I was originally going to do something with Human(Damaran)Barbarian/Fighter and use all the ACF's to pick up pounce, whirling frenzy, improved trip, Jotunbrud, dungeon crasher, etc.. and basically make him an uber charger with some tripping ability. After reading up a bit though I'm considering some other options. I'm not sure if trying to do an uber charger AND a tripper is a good idea due to feat limitations, so I think charging would be the best option since our group needs the damage(wiz/rogue + favored soul). However since I may be throwing tripping out the window for now I've considered alternate paths.

I like the idea of Bear Warrior and the benefits of combining it with FotF. However I also like the idea of the FotF/Deepwarden/Frostrager option that seems to hit it's stride a bit earlier. If one were to compare the two damage wise, would the Bear Warrior unarmed strike+natural attacks combo(I'm concerned the DM might have issues with natural + unarmed attack stacking) potentially outdamage the Dwarf smashing combo that focuses on unarmed damage alone? It seems the Dwarf option would give me more AC without armor and not have to worry about losing certain magical items while shifting to bear form. Also would the whirling frenzy variant even be worth it if I were to go either of these routes and use mostly my fists/natural weapons? We're starting at level 3 so whirling frenzy might still be a good option to use with weapons early on until I access the PrC's.

The other thing is it seems that FotF + Deepwarden would give me track and scent, not to mention overall more skill points so I could be useful in more ways than just damage whereas the Bear Warrior may be a one trick pony. I'd probably go:

Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/FotF3/Bear Warrior5/Warshaperx

or

Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/FotF1/Deepwarden 2/Frostrager3/FotF2/ 10 levels of whatever.

The 2nd option looks like it will hit it's stride much earlier and I can finish up FotF2 to get more benefits while still having plenty of levels to finish up with something good.

[Person_Man]

So when you boil it all down, you want high melee damage, trip, bull rush, and high AC without a lot of magic equipment. Right? Have you considered the classic Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6/Warmind 10 with Shock Trooper and a Monk's Belt? (Google Flaming Homer or King of Pong on this forum).

Dungeoncrasher for massive damage.
Warmind for Psionic Pounce, Expansion, Inertial Armor, and Sweeping Strike.
Shock Trooper for directed Bull Rush, tripping Bull Rush (and thus, no need for Combat Expertise or Improved Trip), and the option to swap Power Attack penalties to AC?
Monk's Belt for Wis to AC, which stacks with Inertial Armor.


If you want to get crazy, you can layer on Goliath, Knockback (crazy fun with Sweeping Strike), Claws of the Beast/Vampire, Practiced Manifester, etc. But it's not necessary. Or you could just dump Fighter all together and just go strait Psychic Warrior, giving up some raw damage in place of more powers and utility.

If that doesn't interest you, and you do end up with Frostrager in your mix, I highly suggest getting a caster in your party with Energy Substitution (Cold). The best part of being a Frostrager is having an ally heal you in combat with Cold area of effect spells. And if you do choose to go with Bear Warrior, I would just take 1 level of it. Beyond that there are too many dead levels, and the other further benefits of the class can be duplicated through other means.

[Gandariel]

i'd go for the second one. be sure to pick superior unarmed strike and snap kick.

also finish frostrager!
(and you can put 5 levels of bear warrior after that :P)

[Darth Stabber]

If that doesn't interest you, and you do end up with Frostrager in your mix, I highly suggest getting a caster in your party with Energy Substitution (Cold). The best part of being a Frostrager is having an ally heal you in combat with Cold area of effect spells. And if you do choose to go with Bear Warrior, I would just take 1 level of it. Beyond that there are too many dead levels, and the other further benefits of the class can be duplicated through other means.

Bear warrior 1 is okay, but bear warrior 5 is where the action is, bigger buff and large size is fantastic. That being said, I would recommend neither that nor frost rager for a tripper. Both frost rager and bear warrior favor a natural weapon/unarmed strike focused route that is difficult to reconcile with the reach weapons preferred in trippers. Now if you aren't playing an area control tripper, and just throwing improved trip and knockdown on top of your bestial monstrosity, have at, though the feats might be a touch tight. Also consider adding totemist2 to the build, lots of fun natural weapon options, or teleportation as a move action, and you can be the bamf bear.

Also deepwarden is overrated

[jeice]

I'm really starting to like the sound of the Deepwarden for a couple of levels to jumpstart me into either Frostrager and/or Bear Warrior. So now I'm trying to figure out the best entry into Deepwarden. I got the ok for Earth Dwarf so with a 30 point buy I can easily get 18 str and con while letting my dex slide a bit and keeping int and wis at an even 10. I'd plan to get steadfast determination at some point so the wis probably won't hurt too much.

What I'm running into is that I need Knowledge Dungeoneering that neither fighter nor Barbarian give, so either I have to waste precious skill points in a cross class skill or I take at least a level of Ranger. And if I take 1.. should I take 3 for the Endurance feat? I'd take a hit on hps, but with a +4 con bonus I won't be doing too badly.

Something like...

Barb 2 (uncanny dodge, whirling frenzy variant, swap ride for tumble)
Ranger 3 (more skill points, free endurance, combat style[yawn])

That takes me directly into Deepwarden at 6 where I'll get a 2nd Track feat, perhaps my DM will let me choose an alternate Ranger type feat to replace it. Great Fortitude sucks, but required for FotF so that'd be nice. Two levels of Deepwarden will get me Con to AC and then perhaps I can take a level of FotF to pickup all the goodies and then shoot for Frostrager.

The other option is something like Barb 2/Ranger 1/Fighter 2 where I'll get my knowledge dungeoneering and then the two fighter bonus feats, or just take Dungeoncrasher as my 2nd. I could use my first fighter bonus feat on Endurance and come out of it with a few more hps but less skills points.

I know FotF is a better choice to take a level before Deepwarden, I'm just not sure if my DM is going to buy the fluff so easily and allow a 1 level dip to FotF then straight into Deepwarden for 2 levels. I think taking it after will be less of a problem and I think I can hold out a couple of levels to get the FotF stuff.

Any better options?

[Juntao112]

GitP Iron Chef to the rescue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9111595&postcount=107)! Just replace levels in Animal Lord with levels of Frostrager. Oh and take Blazing Berserker (http://dndtools.eu/feats/sandstorm--85/blazing-berserker--218/).