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the clumsy bard
2013-01-11, 03:32 PM
If you had to pick a real world language (modern or historical) to represent the language of fey what language do you think would work the best or at least make the most sense?

Kurald Galain
2013-01-11, 03:35 PM
French. And use German for the language of Mordor.

Grinner
2013-01-11, 03:36 PM
Some kind of Irish or Scottish language. They sound cool; they look cool; and they match the mythos.

hamiltond465
2013-01-11, 03:43 PM
Some kind of Irish or Scottish language. They sound cool; they look cool; and they match the mythos.

I agree. Celtic or ye olde english or something of the sort.
I'd normally say Latin, but that's a bit farther south than most of the Fey legends if I rememebr right.

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-01-11, 03:46 PM
I would totally use Gaelic. I mean, beyond the fact that it just makes sense, there's a certain delightful mystique to it. And it means that all the names like Sidhe and Unseelie (which, I believe, actually rhyme) get pronounced right. :smallwink:

Grinner
2013-01-11, 03:53 PM
As a clarification, Gaelic in its various forms is the Irish and Scottish languages, more or less.

NecroRebel
2013-01-11, 03:58 PM
Do you want the language of Faerie to be closely related to the common tongue? It seems like a lot of fantastic histories include humans learning language from elves, and elves are often fey.

Maybe have Latin as the fey language, modern Italian as elvish, and French as the common human tongue? Trouble is that English is too much of a hodgepodge language with influences from too many ancestor tongues, so it doesn't really work if you assume just one.

Khedrac
2013-01-11, 05:04 PM
The first question is really "do you want your players to have a chance of understanding bits when their characters don't?"

If yes then choose a language as per the suggestions above (my first thought was Celtic) suitable to where you live (I live in the UK). If you live in North America then one of the Native American tongues could make a very good Fay substitute.

nedz
2013-01-11, 06:07 PM
Your native tongue — replayed backwards.

The Tygre
2013-01-11, 06:23 PM
Noble Fey (i.e. Elves, Sidhe, Eladrin, etc.)= Gaelic
Everything else = French

French is a pretty widespread language, with a lot of local variants. It would allow for dialogue for a variety of fey, from Springheel Jacks and pixies to termite spirits and loup garou.

Craft (Cheese)
2013-01-11, 07:19 PM
The first question is really "do you want your players to have a chance of understanding bits when their characters don't?"

If yes then choose a language as per the suggestions above (my first thought was Celtic) suitable to where you live (I live in the UK). If you live in North America then one of the Native American tongues could make a very good Fay substitute.

Though you may want to pick one, like Inukitut, Lakhota, and Navajo, which has relatively plentiful resources available. Most native american languages are woefully underdocumented, unfortunately.

Xuc Xac
2013-01-11, 09:39 PM
If you had to pick a real world language (modern or historical) to represent the language of fey what language do you think would work the best or at least make the most sense?

Depends on which fey, doesn't it?

Leprechauns and banshees? Irish Gaelic
Satyrs and Dryads? Koine Greek
Einsaung Nat, Hkum Yeng Nat, or Lu Nat? Burmese
Bisan? Japanese

Frozen_Feet
2013-01-11, 09:46 PM
Finnish, obviously. Tolkien approved. :smalltongue:

ForzaFiori
2013-01-11, 09:59 PM
Do you want the language of Faerie to be closely related to the common tongue? It seems like a lot of fantastic histories include humans learning language from elves, and elves are often fey.

Maybe have Latin as the fey language, modern Italian as elvish, and French as the common human tongue? Trouble is that English is too much of a hodgepodge language with influences from too many ancestor tongues, so it doesn't really work if you assume just one.

English, obviously, is common (as in the trader's tongue. Humans may very well speak french among themselves, or have separate languages for each kingdom). Its a mixture of the languages of the fey (through the elves), mixed with what would probably be a dwarven/orcish language (German/Scandinavian languages, at least to me), with a hodgepodge of other stuff thrown in for flavor.

Ravens_cry
2013-01-11, 10:15 PM
Something Celtic would be my choice as well, but not spoken with a typical accent, too identifiable, but rather something fluty.

Grinner
2013-01-11, 10:29 PM
Something Celtic would be my choice as well, but not spoken with a typical accent, too identifiable, but rather something fluty.

A pirate accent, naturally. :smalltongue:

Deepbluediver
2013-01-11, 10:52 PM
How exotic are you looking to get? If you really want to confound your players pick something like Cherokee. It's totally and completely unrelated to other romance languages, which seems fighting for the language of a different type of creature.

What I mean is, I might expect all the languages of humanoids (common, elvish, orcish, gnomish etc) to be different, but have a similar root (like latin branching to english, french, spanish, italian, etc). For the languages of other creature types I'd pick things with a different alphabet and system, like say Draconic is Russian or another cyrillic-based language.

I've always envisioned Druidic as being like japanese kanji; i.e. thousands of characters that all mean something different (or have multiple meanings), instead of letters to make up a word, which is why it so hard for anyone else to learn.

enderlord99
2013-01-11, 10:59 PM
Lojban.

Clearly.

:smalltongue:

Deepbluediver
2013-01-11, 11:20 PM
Lojban.

Clearly.

:smalltongue:

That is OBVIOUSLY the native language of aberations :P

Craft (Cheese)
2013-01-11, 11:29 PM
What I mean is, I might expect all the languages of humanoids (common, elvish, orcish, gnomish etc) to be different, but have a similar root (like latin branching to english, french, spanish, italian, etc). For the languages of other creature types I'd pick things with a different alphabet and system, like say Draconic is Russian or another cyrillic-based language.

Pedantic: English is a west germanic language, not a romance language.

Ravens_cry
2013-01-11, 11:34 PM
Pedantic: English is a west germanic language, not a romance language.
With some huge Norman French influences not to mention more direct Latin influences from Church Latin. Elvish should be French as it a Celtic (fey) Language that got Latinized.

Deepbluediver
2013-01-11, 11:37 PM
Pedantic: English is a west germanic language, not a romance language.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said that English was a romance language. What I meant is, a language called "common" seems like it might pick up bits and pieces of lots of other ways of speaking, and as the famous T-shirt once said:
http://veryhilarious.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/english-doesnt-borrow.jpg


I'm sure that English isn't the first language to have done this through the ages, but it has the broadest reputation as such within the experience of most players.

Jeff the Green
2013-01-11, 11:44 PM
If the players can understand it (fey language) I'd go with modernish Scots (e.g. the original lyrics to Auld Lang Syne), with explanations for what unusual words mean. If they can't, or you want something more foreign, I'd echo others' suggestions of Gaelic, and add in a couple options. Specifically, Welsh and Manx (from Wales and the Isle of Man, respectively).

I also like the idea that, since they live for so long, fey don't pick up on developments in grammar and vocabulary in Common very well. This gives one an excuse to make them talk like Puck, Titania, and Oberon in A Midsummer Night's Dream. Plus I like writing in archaic English anyway.

Grinner
2013-01-11, 11:49 PM
That is OBVIOUSLY the native language of aberations :P

If I may ask, why is Lojban so reviled? The anal-retentive grammar?

It seems like it might be useful for philosophical and scientific purposes.

Jeff the Green
2013-01-12, 01:47 AM
Lojban.

Clearly.

:smalltongue:

Clearly not. Fay are supposed to be masters of deception without lying, which one can't do without ambiguity.

Craft (Cheese)
2013-01-12, 02:54 AM
If I may ask, why is Lojban so reviled? The anal-retentive grammar?

It seems like it might be useful for philosophical and scientific purposes.

It's not Lojban I revile so much as certain proponents of it who don't really understand what the project is or what it actually sets out to accomplish. Most crucially that it doesn't actually accomplish anything that you can already do with natural languages so long as you're mindful and careful of what you're saying/writing. It's not magic pixie dust that solves otherwise intractable problems in communication.

It's an interesting experiment tho.

EccentricCircle
2013-01-12, 09:37 AM
why Gaelic but not Welsh?
That would probably be my first choice.

Deepbluediver
2013-01-12, 09:53 AM
If I may ask, why is Lojban so reviled? The anal-retentive grammar?

It seems like it might be useful for philosophical and scientific purposes.

I was sort of joking around the first time, but damn you called me on it and now I need to explain myself.

hmmm.... (sounds of gears grinding, and the little hamster panting on his wheel) *the smell of burning metal and fur wafts faintly through the air...*

Ok! Here we go!

This ISN'T the actual language of native aberations, but the first attempts at communication led to drastic misunderstandings because of the differences between races (instead of a white and black morality system they have blue and orange, etc etc etc). The aberation Lojban-equivalent was developed specifically so that humanoids and other species that are so vastly different could speak with aberations without one party or the other flying into a rage, leaving in disgust, or being reduced to a quivering pile of tears and pee. :smallbiggrin:

How's that?

Zaggab
2013-01-12, 10:41 AM
Finnish, obviously. Tolkien approved. :smalltongue:
I second this! For some reason, my mind thinks that the Moomins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin) are fey-like, and they speak Finnish (or Finnish-Swedish).
I found this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WCcwI8HQFw) Moomin-related YouTube video. Listen to it. Totally fey.

Grinner
2013-01-12, 11:18 AM
It's not Lojban I revile so much as certain proponents of it who don't really understand what the project is or what it actually sets out to accomplish. Most crucially that it doesn't actually accomplish anything that you can already do with natural languages so long as you're mindful and careful of what you're saying/writing. It's not magic pixie dust that solves otherwise intractable problems in communication.

It's an interesting experiment tho.

Alright.


*snip*

Well...It explains something. I'll let you know when I figure out what it is. :smallamused:

Ravens_cry
2013-01-12, 02:35 PM
why Gaelic but not Welsh?
That would probably be my first choice.
I used Welsh with a gutteral accent for a bunch of Orcs that had been pushed from their plains homelands to cliffs by the sea.

Zale
2013-01-12, 04:47 PM
I thought for a second the op was suggesting Fey talk like normal people, that is, ignore the fourth-wall.

Which would make them look utterly insane.

BootStrapTommy
2013-01-12, 05:56 PM
{Scrubbed}

DeIdeal
2013-01-12, 06:13 PM
Irish if it's actually used for something (eg. I can actually find dictionaries etc.), Gaulish if this is just about picking the one that I think fits the best.

Someone mentioned Finnish. I disagree wholeheartedly, but I'm willing to bet it's because I'm Finnish myself.

TuggyNE
2013-01-12, 09:27 PM
I thought for a second the op was suggesting Fey talk like normal people, that is, ignore the fourth-wall.

Which would make them look utterly insane.

That's actually a thing in the Exalted fan-comic Keychain of Creation (http://keychain.patternspider.net/archive/koc0107.html). :smallwink: Works pretty well there....

Malimar
2013-01-13, 12:49 AM
Lojban.

Clearly.

:smalltongue:

That is OBVIOUSLY the native language of modrons :P

Fixed that for you. :smalltongue:

Inglenook
2013-01-13, 09:46 PM
Ithkuil, i.e. the language that's so complicated that it takes its creator a few hours to translate a simple sentence.

Or maybe it would be more fitting for Outsiders …

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2013-01-14, 12:03 AM
Hmmm, I hadn't thought of this in my world.

Actually I haven't though of languages for ANY of the non-Prime world areas in my cosmology.

The Fey in my world aren't related really to the Elves... They have to have a language totally unalike to any of the Worldly powers... So most Western languages are out. Even Finnish is out, that's Elvish, I already have a bunch of Romance and Germanic and Slavic languages...

Ahah! The Otherworlds will speak Dravidian or otherwise Indian Continent languages!

So the Fey King would be all like "Tamari kriya'o visvani satata astitva dhamaki api! Tame te mate saja hovi ja jo'i'e."
And then the Blind King would be all like "Vy Lchyc shto vshy nkshemnja pahrozm npalochak mnie? Ja kin cbie prz most!"
And meanwhile the angels are all like "Apani kichu karate cana?"
And then the demons are like "Illai, ninkal mutalil."

Bonus points for the scripts looking like this:

Fey: તમારી ક્રિયાઓ આ વિશ્વમાં ખૂબ જ અસ્તિત્વ જોખમમાં છે

Angels: আপনি কিছু করতে চান

Demons: இல்லை, நீங்கள் முதலில்

edit: Ok so modified Belorussian wouldn't work for the old empire that became the Lichhosts, because I already use Russian for a Human civilization. Dammit. Most East Asian languages are out of bounds as well, they're reserved for the, well, China-substitute in setting.
It has to be a language that has an interesting unique writing system to, because that's the only way anyone's going to run across the language on account of everyone who speaks it is in various states of decomposition.

Edit edit: I GOT IT! Georgian! So the Blind King would really say something like : Sheni tsvrilmani sap’rt’kheebis ar daashinos! Me mits’emuli t’k’veni dabruneba masshtabit’khidi!

And would write it like გზა დახურეს. ეს გააკეთა, ვინც მკვდარი, და მკვდარი შეინახოს იგი.

Aron Times
2013-01-14, 07:25 PM
Elves and other fey creatures should sound like Jersey Shore with the elegant aesthetics of Honey Boo Boo.

kardar233
2013-01-15, 10:31 PM
My DM just spoke in Quenya and inflected it so it sounded ominous.

lsfreak
2013-01-16, 04:30 AM
As much as I've heard people say things about Gaelic, I've found that IRL most people (at least here in the States) have no idea what it sounds like. They either think Irish accented English or Enya. I don't find anything especially outstanding about the way it sounds.

Personally I prefer my fey of the unknowable horror type. If sources were available, the languages I've seen that stand out as interesting possibilities for players who know little about languages would be something like Chechen or Tsez or Archi (Northeast Caucasian) or some of the weirder Mesoamerican ones (Mixtecan, Mazatec). Something a bit more familiar I'd probably go with one of the eastern Uralic languages (more European grammar-wise and sound-wise, like Finnish, but with a handful of strange sounds); Forest Nenets looks interesting, but I've found even less English-language sources on them than some of the others.

Zale
2013-01-17, 05:24 PM
That's actually a thing in the Exalted fan-comic Keychain of Creation (http://keychain.patternspider.net/archive/koc0107.html). :smallwink: Works pretty well there....

That's more or less what cause that thought. :D

Kaeso
2013-01-20, 12:15 PM
With some huge Norman French influences not to mention more direct Latin influences from Church Latin. Elvish should be French as it a Celtic (fey) Language that got Latinized.

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, French is a Germanic language that got Latinized. The Franks, after which France is named, came from Southern Germany (the area that's now known as Franken). There are still some small, local celtic languages in France though, most notably in Bretagne.

Personally I think that, if we apply real languages to the DnD world, it should be something like this:

Common = German. The Holy Roman Empire was a large and influential power in Europe, and even outside of it German speakers weren't uncommon. While it wasnt the Medieval Lingua Franca (that was Latin and later French), I think this is the most fitting for Common.

Elven = French. I think the elves, especially high/grey elves, fit the stereotype of the French quite nicely. They're educated and aloof, but also very competent in the art of war (unlike what Groundskeeper Willie would have you believe :smalltongue:). If I'm not mistaken a lot of magic is also written down in Elven, which could reflect the fact that French was the Lingua Franca until English replaced it in 1950, and still has an upper class allure to this very day.

Dwarven = Gaellic. When I think Dwarves, I think industry, and when I think industry I think of Germany above all. But since we've already decided that German is Common, Gaellic is a good second choice. After all, many of the "British" inventions from the industrial revolution were Scottish.

That's all that comes to mind right now.

Daftendirekt
2013-01-20, 01:56 PM
If you had to pick a real world language (modern or historical) to represent the language of fey what language do you think would work the best or at least make the most sense?

Welsh definitely.

Kami2awa
2013-01-25, 04:08 AM
If you really want to have something weird, try Solresol.

Solresol is a musical language, and was one of the first attempts to make a universal Esperanto. Words are made up of musical notes; when spoken you use musical syllables (Doh, Re, Mi etc). For example La-Fa means "good". Of course, the language can also be coded into actual music.

GnomeGninjas
2013-01-25, 06:46 AM
French. And use German for the language of Mordor.

French is elven.

Joe the Rat
2013-01-25, 12:09 PM
I suppose it depends on what you're trying for with the language.

If you're going for sound, something musical, or unusual to the ears of your players is ideal. Avoid anything your players actually speak, unless you intend for that person to understand what you're saying (in which case you can't just string together words that sound good). Finnish (as noted before) is storied, and rarely comes up (in the Americas, at least). Gaelic and French also capture some of the mystique.

If you're going for content, worry less about sound and more about syntax. Have them speak Contract Law.