[1st Homebrew]An Idea for Paladin

[Vrikolaka]

I'm New on the forum, but I'd just came here many times, for the great handbooks and homebrew ideas (especially the Healer, my favorite base class in DnD, who just give the healer, the real things to heal well).

And, I Wanna make an Homebrew of my own. My Idea, is very simple:
Ok, we have various core classes in PHB, with so many concepts, and roles in combat. But, one role just didn't appeared: the Aggro role.

The barbarian is an Damage Dealer;
The Paladin is an Damage Dealer, and utility class (divine grace, some spells...)
The Fighter is an Battlefield Controller, most of the times;
The Ranger is an Swift fighter;

But, just doesn't have one core class, to an role, that, especially in low-levels, is importantly to the group. Ok, the fact is: every one of these classes, can tank. But, no one can tank well, unless they focuses his build to just that. So, I Wanna try to make my 1st homebrew, making the Paladin (who just is the only core class who just can adopt this concept) an really an Divine Protector to protect the Innocents of the powers of evil.

I Will Need Help to Make this an good base class. I Wanna make, the Paladin, an Tier mid-to-low 4 tankish like class.

This is an Discusson Thread, to try to make that thing.

I Have some Ideas, as just:
- One ability to make, in 1st level, to protect his allies, taking damage in place of his allies.
- In greater levels, some abilities to Block every tipe of attacks (like Eric of the cartoon Dungeons and Dragons);
- An Idea, to make slightless sacrifices, to heal HP of his comrades (like the spell of Heroes of Horror)


And some others ideas, that need to create.
Ok. Do you think that we can make an class of that kind? :D

EDIT: Is for DnD 3.5, just to tell...

EDIT: Searching in my Books, perhaps giving the paladin, the feat Stigmata (BoED) to him. Yes, Even I think that is dumb, just because the Paladin have Healing Hands, but I consider that more flavorful than the Healing Hands, to an character that sacrifices himself to protect his allies.

And I'm thinking to slightly alter the Conduct Code, to a series of Good Acts that the PC has to do, like an brazillian scenario that I play, for each deity; I have some Ideas in mind.
Like that:
- The paladin doesn't be allowed to take a life of any creature of int 3 or more, unless is an Fiendish/Undead enemy (for an God of Mercy)
- The paladin have to always protect helpless people, even if your own security is in play (for an God of Strenght or Protection)
- The paladin always have to follow any orders of your religious superiors, unless the order conflict with the personal code of the Deity (for an Lawful god, just like St. Cuthbert).

[Clericzilla]

Some people don't think this is a Paladin but.... Here is a homebrew of the Paladin that was made for an entire homebrew system based on 3.5.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin

You should start here and modify this since it isn't as horrid as the 3.5 core paladin.

[ngilop]

Jiriku Did a more defnesive minded Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187700)

Its actually my fave paladin homebrew onhere. I highly recomend looking at it.

[toapat]

Basically, Look through this Compilation (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12909996&postcount=1), this Paladin brew of mine which isnt there (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14104896&postcount=1), and This Handbook (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/08/paladins-handbook.html), then you have half the experience and knowledge needed to make a paladin homebrew.

This will not convey the understanding of the design philosophy needed to correct the class, but it will give you a solid mechanical foundation though.

Asto your stuff:

1: That is the Glory of the Martyr spell in a nutshell, Look it up, im not risking getting banned over a hyperlink
2: Not sure this is actually mechanically supported
3: Sounds like the supposedly out of combat use of Devout spirit discipline

Things to avoid:

1: Further nerfing paladin: Jiriku doesnt balance his paladin at all. Power isnt increased, class features are not shored up, MAD is not dealt with. One portion of the design philosophy needed to fix paladin is missing.
2: Design Trapping: TG Oskar has a solid, but (high)T5 paladin total rebuild. There are certain design decisions that will always negatively affect a class, Shoehorning them into any specific combat style is one such thing. His build is solid, but he practically rivets the paladin into SnB, which is bad.
3: Lazy Design: My linked paladin brew falls into this, i havent yet gotten the motivation to rebalance the paladin's spell list to matter. Some of the class features also need better justification then is currently there.
4: Erroneous Victim: SEEROW's paladin is a good springboard for working on, although it itself makes the mistake of undervaluing the paladin spell list.

[Sacrieur]

Few things.

Barbarian is BSF (big stupid fighter). He takes hits + deals damage.

Paladin is specialized BSF. He takes hits + deals damage + is useful against some things better than others. His utility is meh. Sometimes useful as the party's face.

Fighter is another BSF.

Ranger/Rogue tend to be glass cannons. This means they deal damage, without taking hits. They could be fragile speedsters (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FragileSpeedster) if they wanted (we call those a waste of space).

Battlefield control? That's your wizard/druid/sorc/cleric/psion. Utility? Wizard/sorc/cleric/psion. Pretty much everything else is wizard/druid/sorc/cleric/psion.

But you're interested in the paladin. So why is the paladin often "fixed" or is complained about? Two fundamental things:

1) Role in party.

2) Martial caster.

So the paladin's role in the party is a strange one. He can cast spells, heal people, and fight alongside the fighter. So where does he belong, exactly? To understand how D&D works, most classes can be divided into several different kinds of roles. These are the roles that actually get filled: not roles that were intended to be filled. There are five non combat roles and four combat ones.

Noncombat

Social: this is the party's face. You also tend to lead the party. And you tend to get targeted the most. A paladin is a good choice for this roll. This person needs max ranks in bluff, diplomacy, and sense motive. Knowledge in nobility doesn't hurt either.

Sneak: disarms traps, scouts ahead, and may often steal things. A good roll for rogues and rangers. If you're not careful you're liable to die a lot.

Healbot: you service everyone in between battle. Like a mechanic checking everyone's engine between battles. Casters can do this roll, but smarter ones will shirk it off on someone else (like the paladin).

Bodyguard: this is for the people who do combat and nothing else. Intimidate can be useful. That's about it.

Utility Caster: this is the person that does everything else. This is going to be a wizard/sorc/druid/cleric/psion. It doesn't matter if you have utility spells that can help out or not. If you're not a primary caster don't bother, you'll just be outshined by someone who is a primary caster (oh you can make a tent out of webbing? That's cute, I can make a whole mansion that exists in extra-dimensional space).

Combat

Tank (BSF): Takes damage, deals damage. Almost always a martial class, but can be a druid as well. Nicknamed for their low Int scores.

Striker (glass cannons): deals damage, doesn't take it. Usually a ranged class.

Waste of Space: Heabots and everything else. If you don't deal damage and you can't take damage or aren't helping out in battlefield control, you're this. No matter how cool your feats and class abilities may be, if you're not taking damage, dealing it, or controlling it: you're useless. Healing is less effective than preventing it due to game mechanics, so any caster who does become a healbot is just meh.

Battlefield Control: This is the person who works behind the scenes. They buff allies, debuff enemies, and alter the landscape to give their team a tactical advantage. This is your wizard/druid/sorc/cleric/psion. And they basically control reality.

---

Now then, where does Paladin fit in? More often than not he's the social guy. So he's useful out of combat (a bit). In combat he fills up the tank roll. He can take damage, so he's not a striker. His healing abilities are absolute crap, so he's not a healer. And his battlefield control is so far behind the primary caster's it's not even worth mentioning.


Now then, onto the second point. He's a martial caster. Martial casters are martial classes who can cast spells as well. Like spellswords and hexblades. The problem with making a martial caster is very simple: a martial caster is someone who gives up martial skills for magic skills. Now, the paladin is still heavily sided in martial combat. He can wear heavy armor and has a high HD. His saves are good. So what's the problem?

The creators, when they made the paladin, gave up too much martial power for too little magic power. Keep in mind the roles. If you get utility spells, even one level later than primary casters, then chances are you're going to outshined by them. That's to say you're worthless. You're always going to be in their shadow. You may say that your buffs make you stronger. But that's not quite the case. In the time it takes you to buff yourself with some weak magic, your allies will have dealt more damage than your buff will ever help you to keep up with (you basically threw away a turn to deal a little extra damage).

And the same is for the fighter/barb. You're not as great with a sword as they are. So you're living in their shadow too. You bring nothing to the table. In a collaboration of an electrical engineer and programmer, you're the computer science guy. You're okay at electrical engineering and programming, but you're not as good as two guys who specialize in each. And that's why martial casters are so difficult to get right. They have to fit into their role with their own unique play style. Too much and you'll outshine other people in your role. Too little and you'll feel worthless.

Don't even worry about tiers.

So then, remember: spells give versatility. In the paladin's case, he wants versatility in the roles he's already good with, plus a little on the side for whatever else might be thrown his way. For example, say you're fighting a fire elemental. You can enchant your sword to do cold damage and bypass his damage reduction. You want to be a utility fighter, able to adapt to the scenario to do just as much damage as your fighter/barb friends.