TWF Damage Clarification

[Sir_Thaddeus]

After looking through the two-weapon fighting rules, and searching through a few threads, I think I understand the rules when it comes to attack rolls (penalties, extra attacks, etc); however, damage on successful attacks is still a bit unclear. So, as I understand it, if a character were to wield two longswords, their damage on the main hand would be 1d8 + Str mod + assorted other bonuses, and their damage on the off hand would be 1d8 + 1/2 Str mod. With a double weapon, say a two-bladed sword, though, I'm not sure. Do both attacks get 1.5 Str mod added to them, since it is a two-handed weapon? Or, when it says that the penalties are treated as if wielding a one-handed weapon in the main hand and a light weapon in the off hand, does that apply to damage as well?
If the latter, is there any real benefit to a double weapon as opposed to two one-handed weapons? The only difference I would see is the character would have to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency rather than Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting (CA), making it more viable in a core-only game.

[yougi]

After looking through the two-weapon fighting rules, and searching through a few threads, I think I understand the rules when it comes to attack rolls (penalties, extra attacks, etc); however, damage on successful attacks is still a bit unclear. So, as I understand it, if a character were to wield two longswords, their damage on the main hand would be 1d8 + Str mod + assorted other bonuses, and their damage on the off hand would be 1d8 + 1/2 Str mod. With a double weapon, say a two-bladed sword, though, I'm not sure. Do both attacks get 1.5 Str mod added to them, since it is a two-handed weapon? Or, when it says that the penalties are treated as if wielding a one-handed weapon in the main hand and a light weapon in the off hand, does that apply to damage as well?

Yes, that is indeed how it works. If the double weapon is wielded as such (with TWF), than the main hand gets Str mod, the off hand gets 1/2 Str mod.


If the latter, is there any real benefit to a double weapon as opposed to two one-handed weapons? The only difference I would see is the character would have to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency rather than Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting (CA), making it more viable in a core-only game.

No. Well, you know, weapon familiarity would save you a feat. I guess fluff.

Personally, I make double weapons easier to enchant: second end costs half the price of the first one when both ends have the same enchantments (e.g. a +1/+1 quarterstaff costs 2300+2300/2=3450 rather than 4600), taking away a part of the cost problem of TWF.

[Sir_Thaddeus]

Yes, that is indeed how it works. If the double weapon is wielded as such (with TWF), than the main hand gets Str mod, the off hand gets 1/2 Str mod.

Thanks, that makes sense. I assume it also counts as wielding a 1 handed weapon and a light weapon for the purposes of Power Attack?

[TypoNinja]

The main benefits from a double weapon for TWF is that its the same dice on each end, you still get d8 d8 instead of needing a smaller weapon in the off hand.

The other primary benefit is that you may choose to wield it two handed in those rounds which you can't full attack and there by still reap the full rewards of Power Attack (and strength and a half for two handing it) without needing to drop/sheath the off hand weapon, and then seamlessly switch back to TWF next round if anybody is still in melee with you.

[Sayt]

Are you sure about the 'main-hand' only doing 1xStr on double weapons? I had this discussion with a friend earlier, and my main point was that you "incur all the normal attack penalties associated with fighting with two weapons, just as if you were using a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.", and as far as I'm aware, the grammar of the rule books generally differentiates between attack and damage rolls.

Also, the two weapon fighting rules are silent on damage rules (Although the abilities section in the Core book dos state that off-hand attacks are at half strength.)

So I'm not aware of any reason why the main attacks with a double weapon wouldn't do 1.5xStr and the off-hand attacks 0.5x Str. I may of course be completely wrong.

[Sir_Thaddeus]

The other primary benefit is that you may choose to wield it two handed in those rounds which you can't full attack and there by still reap the full rewards of Power Attack (and strength and a half for two handing it) without needing to drop/sheath the off hand weapon, and then seamlessly switch back to TWF next round if anybody is still in melee with you.

That makes sense. So the benefit of a double weapon would be more damage than standard dual-wielding in rounds when you can only get one attack in, and more attacks than a standard two-handed weapon in rounds when you can full attack.


Also, the two weapon fighting rules are silent on damage rules (Although the abilities section in the Core book dos state that off-hand attacks are at half strength.)

So I'm not aware of any reason why the main attacks with a double weapon wouldn't do 1.5xStr and the off-hand attacks 0.5x Str. I may of course be completely wrong.

Yeah, that was the only place I could find any mention of double weapon damage. And why I posted this thread. And you make a good point about the damage on the main attack.


Yes, that is indeed how it works. If the double weapon is wielded as such (with TWF), than the main hand gets Str mod, the off hand gets 1/2 Str mod.

Where did you find this? It makes sense, but why wouldn't the main attack get 1.5 Str mod? A source would be helpful.

[Gavinfoxx]

I don't remember where that rule is... but it's why I prefer TWFing with Greatsword and Armor Spikes... Or Spiked Shield (wielded two handed) and Armor Spikes...

[GreatWyrmGold]

I don't remember where that rule is... but it's why I prefer TWFing with Greatsword and Armor Spikes... Or Spiked Shield (wielded two handed) and Armor Spikes...
Why not two spiked shields and armor spikes, triple-wielding?

[Gavinfoxx]

Why not two spiked shields and armor spikes, triple-wielding?

Cause that requires Multi-Weapon Fighting rather than Two-Weapon Fighting. Also, you really really really really want 1.5x strength to damage!

[GreatWyrmGold]

Cause that requires Multi-Weapon Fighting rather than Two-Weapon Fighting. Also, you really really really really want 1.5x strength to damage!
...How do you wield a shield in two hands?

[Gavinfoxx]

This is how you wield a spiked shield two handed:

http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/Gladiatoria/107.jpg

[nedz]

Relevant Rules.

Strength Bonus

When you hit with a melee or thrown weapon, including a sling, add your Strength modifier to the damage result. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies on attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.

Off-Hand Weapon

When you deal damage with a weapon in your off hand, you add only ½ your Strength bonus.

Wielding a Weapon Two-Handed

When you deal damage with a weapon that you are wielding two-handed, you add 1½ times your Strength bonus. However, you don’t get this higher Strength bonus when using a light weapon with two hands.



Double Weapons

Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaffs, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he or she incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.

The character can also choose to use a double weapon two handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.

A quarter staff is a simple double weapon — so you can save a feat.

If you were a Dwarf then you could use an Urgrosh as a martial weapon. Contrary to Kelb's point though — this one does different damage with each end: d8 and d6. The Gnome Hook-hammer is similar.

[Darrin]

...How do you wield a shield in two hands?

...by gripping it with both hands. A heavy shield counts as a one-handed weapon, so you can attack two-handed with it by RAW. (Although by RAW you can only make offhand attacks with it...)

[GreatWyrmGold]

...by gripping it with both hands. A heavy shield counts as a one-handed weapon, so you can attack two-handed with it by RAW. (Although by RAW you can only make offhand attacks with it...)
Silly me, forgot the RAW.