Low level wizard, what to do every turn when no spells?

[Clumsyninja23]

Game is 3.5e, Ravenloft if that matters.

But anyway, I'm going to be playing a wizard. My biggest problem when it comes to a wizard isn't manipulating spells to the greatest effect, but rather what to do when those spells run out.

Or, you know, when at level one you only have a few. There's that.

So my question is, what am I supposed to do in combat when I don't have any spells/useful spells to use? Grab that light crossbow and hope for the best? Or is there something I've been missing (besides my crossbow bolts >_<) this whole time?

We're starting low level and because of both party comp. and roleplay reasons, I have to generalize, so no extra spells there. Scrolls came to mind, but the money and especially the exp. loss dissuades me from this. Any thoughts on how to be useful in combat at these low levels?

[8wGremlin]

take a look at the reserve feats
http://dndtools.eu/feats/categories/reserve/

Basically if you don't cast your highest level spell , it's still available, but you get to use these feats special powers

[Clumsyninja23]

That may work once I get a few levels in. I'll have to see if the DM will allow it. Thanks for the advice!

[koboldish]

What race are you? If you're an elf, beat the heck out of stuff with a longsword. Otherwise, I suggest using a light crossbow. I know it seems pretty lame, but in past experiences, it has worked out quite well.

[Morcleon]

What race are you? If you're an elf, beat the heck out of stuff with a longsword. Otherwise, I suggest using a light crossbow. I know it seems pretty lame, but in past experiences, it has worked out quite well.

Wizards shouldn't get in melee. :smalleek: If you're an elf, go with a longbow.

Reserve feats are decent, but they get better if you pick up Heighten Spell later to let you use them at your max spell level castable. :smallwink:

[Snowbluff]

Options:

Bow/Crossbow. It's been mentioned.

Wands. Not always effective.

Warlock dip. Good option, if you have access to Eldritch Theurge. Pew Pew.

Reserve Feats. Don't waste all of your spells slots to have a little something to do. Will require slightly higher levels. Swordsaged by Morcy's edit.

[Mirakk]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say don't run out of spells per day!

Seriously though, use wands or a crossbow/longbow depending on your race. You can also throw tanglefoot bags, alchemist's fire, powder to reveal invisible creatures etc. Don't underestimate these seemingly trivial actions.

Failing that, you can also use an action to aid another and stick close to someone for protection.

[Bakkan]

If you are or can become an elf: Consider the Elven Generalist ACF in Races of the Wild. Gives you some extra spells per day and automatically granted spells at level-up.

If you are a human or flaws are allowed: Consider choosing Precocious Apprentice (Scorching Ray or other [Fire]) and the Fiery Burst Reserve feat (which you now qualify for). The first feat is from Complete Arcane, the second is from Complete Mage. Note that even if your DM won't let the spell from Precocious Apprentice qualify for Fiery Burst, it still gives you (a decent chance at) another spell per day.

[Story]

Don't forget the Domain Wizard ACF. Combined with Elf Generalist, you'll have tons of slots. Even without Elf Generalist, it's still an extra spell slot at each level, along with other free benefits.

Also, don't forget your cantrips. At level 1, they can still be useful.

[Kelb_Panthera]

At first level there's really not much you can do but plink away with that crossbow once you've used up your spells. You can't pick up reserve feats yet because they've all got a requirement of being able to cast a spell of X level and the lowest ones have X as 2. Wands are just too damn expensive until at you're closing in on level 2.

Don't be afraid of crafting scrolls though. 12.5gp X spell level X caster level is chump change, even at the lowest levels, and Xp is a river if your DM does it by the book. That is, the worst that could happen is that you end up 1 level behind your allies for a few fights each level. In exchange you get magic items at half price and you get exactly the ones you want.

If you have the down-time to use them the crafting feats can be some of the most powerful feats in the game.

Always use scribe scroll to produce 1 or 2 scrolls of spells you know that are situationally useful and don't rely too heavily on CL; knock being the go-to example.

[Ryulin18]

If you are a human or flaws are allowed: Consider choosing Precocious Apprentice (Scorching Ray or other [Fire]) and the Fiery Burst Reserve feat (which you now qualify for).

I'm never making a wizard without these now. This is pure genius! What this basically gives you little fireballs that you can throw around for 8640 rounds a day at 2d6 a time!

GENIUS! :smallbiggrin:

[SowZ]

That may work once I get a few levels in. I'll have to see if the DM will allow it. Thanks for the advice!

He should allow it, it certainly isn't OP by itself.

[Piggy Knowles]

Precocious Apprentice/Fiery Burst is nice at level 1, but it fades in usefulness fast.

I like Cloudy Conjuration, so that my cantrips can have a decent effect all on their own. It stays good well into the game, unlike the Precocious Apprentice/Fiery Burst combo. It's better if you're a Conjuration specialist, of course, but you can still take it for the cost of two feats even if you're a generalist. Acid Splash + Cloudy Conjuration is actually quite nice at low levels, and Blockade + Cloudy Conjuration stays pretty good throughout the game for swift action concealment.

Anyhow, as has been mentioned here, the crossbow is really not a terrible thing to fall back on. Tanglefoot bags are fantastic, if a bit pricey at level 1. And despite non-proficiency, a net can act as a close range debuff - as a touch attack, eating the -4 penalty for nonproficiency isn't the worst thing in the world.

Once you get the money for a solid level 1 wand (Ray of Enfeeblement/Clumsiness or Enlarge Person are my personal favorites), you'll basically be home free.

[Bakkan]

Yeah the Fiery Burst at level 1 trick is nice, but it does lack in the long run. Though that seems to be a common circumstance. Most of the time, if you find a way to improve your longevity at very low levels, such as precocious apprentice, reserve feats, focused specialization, etc., it will become more or less worthless to you later on, as you no longer need a second level spell, 1d6/2 levels is not enough damage to be relevant, and having access to those three schools (or even just one more of them) is worth more than the extra spell per level from focused specialization.

The ideal situation, of sourse, is if you have retraining or psychic reformation. Then you can go ahead and do all the things you need (at least feat-wise) to survive at low levels and then change it all around once you're not running out of spells every day.

Also, just wanted to point out that if you're looking to make the level 1 Fiery Burst trick work even better and are allowed two flaws, be an Illumian with the krau sigil and take as feats Precocious Apprentice( some [fire] ), Fiery Burst, and Improved Sigil (krau). Now you're throwing around 3d6 damage 10-ft squares of fire, as a non-AoO-provoking standard action (it's a (Su) ability) at a range of 30 feet, with a save DC of 13+Int (probably 17 or 18) for half damage.

[Telok]

Unless you only consider standard attacks and damage the be "useful" there is bunches of stuff a wizard can do that doesn't involve spells.

Get a long spear and make an aid another attacks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#aidAnother) on the defensive (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fightingDefensivelyasaStandard Action) from flanking.
Carry a tower shield and provide cover/concealment for the rogue.
Carry some whips and nets to make touch attacks and try to entangle or trip.
Make handle animal checks to direct attack dogs.
Caltrops, marbles, flour pouches, oil flasks, and alchemical items.
Make active spot and listen checks to watch for enemy reinforcements.
Round up the wandering mounts or pack animals.
Deliver healing/buffing potions.
Drag unconscious people out of the melee.
Coup de Grace.
Detect Magic for information and loot.
Manipulate the environment. Is there a chandelier? Drop it on someone. A wagon? Drive it over someone. Rope bridge? Cut it. A balcony with ornamental vases? Drop the vases on people.
Got poison? Quaff an antitoxin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#antitoxin) and poison (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#poison) arrows/bolts for your archers.

[Eldariel]

Alchemist's Fire is often a Touch Attack for 2d6 damage (or 1d6+enemy wastes their next turn which is generally even better); on low levels very efficient. That's my go-to weapon outside Crossbows (I rarely use Longbows on Wizards since my Strength tends to be in the negatives which hurts Longbow use). And yeah, always carry that Light Crossbow of course.

Don't forget Scrolls; 1st level Scrolls are 25gp so fairly affordable, and you have Scribe Scroll so given the chance you can scribe scrolls at 12.5gp a piece. And yeah, 1st level CL 1 Wands are 750gp; Ray of Enfeeblement, Grease, Silent Image, etc. are reasonable Wandables. Generally, pick spells with effect even on a successful save or ones that don't offer a save at all, and preferably no important caster level reliant variables (CL2 Wands are already 1500gp).


But yeah, I mostly play around with Cantrips in PF but in 3.5 where those are finite I just enjoy my life as an archer/alchemist. Remember, you can also take Craft: Alchemy as a Wizard and be really good at it (Int-based class skill) if you want to get e.g. Alchemist's Fires real cheap.

[Clumsyninja23]

Unfortunately, we were all forced into being human. Part of the story.



Remember, you can also take Craft: Alchemy as a Wizard and be really good at it (Int-based class skill) if you want to get e.g. Alchemist's Fires real cheap.

That's an interesting option, and no exp. penalty.


Unless you only consider standard attacks and damage the be "useful" there is bunches of stuff a wizard can do that doesn't involve spells.

Get a long spear and make an aid another attacks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#aidAnother) on the defensive (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fightingDefensivelyasaStandard Action) from flanking.
Carry a tower shield and provide cover/concealment for the rogue.
Carry some whips and nets to make touch attacks and try to entangle or trip.
Make handle animal checks to direct attack dogs.
Caltrops, marbles, flour pouches, oil flasks, and alchemical items.
Make active spot and listen checks to watch for enemy reinforcements.
Round up the wandering mounts or pack animals.
Deliver healing/buffing potions.
Drag unconscious people out of the melee.
Coup de Grace.
Detect Magic for information and loot.
Manipulate the environment. Is there a chandelier? Drop it on someone. A wagon? Drive it over someone. Rope bridge? Cut it. A balcony with ornamental vases? Drop the vases on people.
Got poison? Quaff an antitoxin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#antitoxin) and poison (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#poison) arrows/bolts for your archers.

I will definetely keep these in mind, although some probably aren't applicable. I'll look into finding a longspear. >_>



If you are a human or flaws are allowed: Consider choosing Precocious Apprentice (Scorching Ray or other [Fire]) and the Fiery Burst Reserve feat (which you now qualify for). The first feat is from Complete Arcane, the second is from Complete Mage. Note that even if your DM won't let the spell from Precocious Apprentice qualify for Fiery Burst, it still gives you (a decent chance at) another spell per day.

Holy- I'll be bringing this up to the DM. It works perfectly with the roleplay involved as well!

Thank you all for the advice. Should help a lot.

[Lonely Tylenol]

As for me?

I always preferred my trusty use-activated item of Launch Bolt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#crossbowLight). If your DM plays nice, you might even be able to get one really cheap (35gp!). Still has a material component of "1 bolt", though.

[Story]

Fortunately, Eschew Material Components removes the need for the bolt.

[IdleMuse]

As for me?

I always preferred my trusty use-activated item of Launch Bolt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#crossbowLight). If your DM plays nice, you might even be able to get one really cheap (35gp!). Still has a material component of "1 bolt", though.

This reminds me: The actual Launch Bolt spell makes no mention of size, so you can launch Colossal crossbow bolts with it for quite a lot of damage. Now you just have to work out how to carry them.

[Slipperychicken]

My characters use Heavy Crossbows. I could see the Light ones if you don't have enough cash...

[Ryulin18]

This reminds me: The actual Launch Bolt spell makes no mention of size, so you can launch Colossal crossbow bolts with it for quite a lot of damage. Now you just have to work out how to carry them.

My party worked them out as 4gp and 16lbs of bolt that deal 6d6 from the SRD (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Crossbow_Bolts). Not bad for a 0 lvl.

We went off the logic that 1gp for the small and medium means 2gp for large and huge and double to make 4gp for gargantuant and collosal. The weight was just the rule of doubling.

[Lonely Tylenol]

My characters use Heavy Crossbows. I could see the Light ones if you don't have enough cash...

How do you cope with the standard action reload time? Do you just shrug and fire a bolt every other round?

[Spuddles]

Holy water is cheap and useful in a setting like Ravenloft.


This reminds me: The actual Launch Bolt spell makes no mention of size, so you can launch Colossal crossbow bolts with it for quite a lot of damage. Now you just have to work out how to carry them.

If you don't mind the penalties for using inappropriately sized weapons.

[Slipperychicken]

How do you cope with the standard action reload time? Do you just shrug and fire a bolt every other round?

Whoops. Guess Light Crossbow's the way to go :smallsigh:

[ericgrau]

Daze is worse than any 1st level spell but it's way better than a crossbow. Prepare a few copies during your first 4 levels. Splash weapons in general, whether alchemical or holy water, are good at low levels. Even if you don't want to waste the money on a minor foe, you can throw a 1 sp pint of oil every other round (rather than every round, since you need a full round action to wick and light it) to do the same as alchemist's fire but slower. If you know there will be a long fight before you prepare your spells then you can prepare unseen servant in a 1st level slot and have him prep the oil for you. Give him a bag with up to 6 pints of oil and cloth. Starting round 2 you'll have an "alchemist's fire" every round.

[Curmudgeon]

This reminds me: The actual Launch Bolt spell makes no mention of size, so you can launch Colossal crossbow bolts with it for quite a lot of damage. Now you just have to work out how to carry them.
Yes, it does; you just have to read the right part.
You cast this spell on a crossbow bolt, causing it to fly at a target of your choice as if you had fired it from a light crossbow, using a ranged attack roll.
Inappropriately Sized Weapons

A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all. Because any ranged weapon, when altered in size, can never be in the "light, one-handed, or two-handed" (melee weapon) categories, you can never wield a ranged weapon that's not of the appropriate size for your character.

Also check the Weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#tableWeapons) table and you'll see the damage is dictated by the size of the crossbow (just as the spell says); the bolt itself lists damage of "—".

[Archmage1]

You could always go with the
Warn everyone that you can no longer save the day bit, and then follow along playing solitaire.
Can be entertaining. Once or twice.
Or get a crossbow. True, you are not going to be all that useful, but you will do something. except vs skeletons.

[IdleMuse]

Yes, it does; you just have to read the right part. Because any ranged weapon, when altered in size, can never be in the "light, one-handed, or two-handed" (melee weapon) categories, you can never wield a ranged weapon that's not of the appropriate size for your character.

Also check the Weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#tableWeapons) table and you'll see the damage is dictated by the size of the crossbow (just as the spell says); the bolt itself lists damage of "—".

Hmm true. And, reading the spell again, it does require that the bolt cost 1sp, which would not be the price of a colossal bolt.

[Vizzerdrix]

Alchemy items are very, very good at low levels. Even better if you make them yourself.

To help with the range problem (most alchemy items need to be used at close range) look to Arms and Equipment Guide for a gnome calculus. It will bring the range up to 50 feet, but is exotic (want ever. Touch attacks are easy to make, even at a -4 :smalltongue:).


Using this method, I was able to go from 1 to 5 with ease in a caster unfriendly game. grumble grumble stoopid lack of wizardy loot on caster baddies grumble grumble...

[koboldish]

Wizards shouldn't get in melee. :smalleek: If you're an elf, go with a longbow.


I was away from my computer for a while, but I do think slightly differently here. Sure, it may get you killed, but it will be extremely funny! And it's very effective. Until you die. Go longswords!

[Eldariel]

I was away from my computer for a while, but I do think slightly differently here. Sure, it may get you killed, but it will be extremely funny! And it's very effective. Until you die. Go longswords!

Only if your character has high Strength and enough HP/AC to expect to stay alive. In other words, extremely high ability scores across the board, probably with interest in becoming a warrior/wizard in the future.

[ArcturusV]

Since it's going to be a trip into Ravenloft, I'd suggest some Holy Water myself. Can't go wrong with having some Holy Water, it's pretty much guaranteed you'll run into something that could use a good dip in it. And Alchemist Fire of course. And it has the benefit of (At least to me) being a bit more interesting than hoping for lucky rolls with a hand crossbow.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Nothing to see here. :smallredface:

[Snowbluff]

Oh god, I have mirror matches. I can't even play LoL without getting bored. It's one of those games that can only be fun if I have people to play it with. Mirror matches are pretty awful in any game.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Oh god, I have mirror matches. I can't even play LoL without getting bored. It's one of those games that can only be fun if I have people to play it with. Mirror matches are pretty awful in any game.

This is... Not the thread I thought it was? :smalleek:

Oh gods... I posted this from the wrong tab... See, this is what happens when you're up at 6am... But never fell asleep.