Aggressive Trait

[Story]

The aggressive trait gives +2 initiative for -1 AC. Everyone says that initiative is all important, while AC is worthless except at low levels. So why doesn't everyone take it? RP reasons?

I'm trying to decide whether to take it with my current character (lvl3 Wizard). It's a great bonus but I haven't exactly played him aggressively.

[Flickerdart]

The reason initiative is important is that it can (potentially) give you an extra turn over the enemy. Init +2 is, all other things being equal, a 10% chance that you get to buff your friends or blast your enemies before they've taken an action. However, wizards have loads of ways to boost initiative (Hummingbird - especially with Elven Generalist sub level, Nerveskitter, Martial Wizard variant for Improved Initiative instead of Scribe Scroll), so it may not be necessary. You will notice that all of these ways are available at very low levels.

The reason AC is not very important is that BAB scales and AC doesn't. After a certain point, it becomes cost-prohibitive to continue investing in AC when one can simply stack miss chances. After all, a Ring of Blinking (27,000) means that opponents now hit you half the time, even if their attack bonus is absolutely massive. At low levels, when miss chance is not available and you don't need to spend much to keep AC up, AC is a lot more useful.

Also, -1 for +2 is a crummy deal since the flaw Vulnerable (-1 AC) for the feat Improved Initiative (+4 init) is literally twice as good.

[SowZ]

The reason initiative is important is that it can (potentially) give you an extra turn over the enemy. Init +2 is, all other things being equal, a 10% chance that you get to buff your friends or blast your enemies before they've taken an action. However, wizards have loads of ways to boost initiative (Hummingbird - especially with Elven Generalist sub level, Nerveskitter, Martial Wizard variant for Improved Initiative instead of Scribe Scroll), so it may not be necessary. You will notice that all of these ways are available at very low levels.

The reason AC is not very important is that BAB scales and AC doesn't. After a certain point, it becomes cost-prohibitive to continue investing in AC when one can simply stack miss chances. After all, a Ring of Blinking (27,000) means that opponents now hit you half the time, even if their attack bonus is absolutely massive. At low levels, when miss chance is not available and you don't need to spend much to keep AC up, AC is a lot more useful.

Also, -1 for +2 is a crummy deal since the flaw Vulnerable (-1 AC) for the feat Improved Initiative (+4 init) is literally twice as good.

Yeah, unless you are using that feat for something else or want +6 AC. I had a glass cannon charger build once who rolled crap for HP and only had 12 Con. I took both for the +6 Init.

[Flickerdart]

Well sure, if you can't use the flaw-feat pair for any reason, then you might take it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a worse trade-off.

[SowZ]

Well sure, if you can't use the flaw-feat pair for any reason, then you might take it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a worse trade-off.

Sure, it is. But I figured if I'm gonna be one shotted anyway, both seemed legit. It was a gladiator campaign so usually I was only fighting one enemy and I had a good enough chance to one shot them. So, you know, there are good reasons to use it. But it isn't an always take like the OP suggests. I've taken it a couple times totally depending on the situation moreso than the character, really.

I usually take improved initiative and then some sort of magic item that helps my initiative. Like a warning/eager weapon or a ring of anticipation making the +2 Init. unnecessary.

[Story]

I'm already using Nerveskitter and Martial Wizard - Improved Initiative. I decided against the hummingbird familiar though.

Also, I already used both flaws, and I already have Improved Initiative anyway. And besides, isn't getting initiative even higher still worthwhile? I have +6 initiative (+11 with Nerveskitter), but I can still roll low.

[Flickerdart]

The average enemy at your level will probably have +1 or so to initiative. They have about a 10% chance of beating you (if you roll very low and they roll very high). A +2 doesn't meaningfully increase those chances. Meanwhile, since AC is not an opposed roll and it's likely that you're still on the RNG, that translates to a very real 5% difference in how often you are hit. So it's not a no-brainer, but some might find it's worth it.

[SowZ]

I'm already using Nerveskitter and Martial Wizard - Improved Initiative. I decided against the hummingbird familiar though.

Also, I already used both flaws, and I already have Improved Initiative anyway. And besides, isn't getting initiative even higher still worthwhile? I have +6 initiative (+11 with Nerveskitter), but I can still roll low.

Are you going to take extra familiar? If so, picking up a hummingbird would be nice.

[Story]

The average enemy at your level will probably have +1 or so to initiative. They have about a 10% chance of beating you (if you roll very low and they roll very high). A +2 doesn't meaningfully increase those chances.

According to my calculations, it reduces the odds of losing from 11.25% to 7%.

[SowZ]

According to my calculations, it reduces the odds of losing from 11.25% to 7%.

Which is less than the 5% increased odds of getting hit! Math, yay! Sure, not directly comparible but meh.

[Slipperychicken]

Which is less than the 5% increased odds of getting hit!

Well, if you go first, you can potentially disable or CC your opponent so you don't get hit at all.

[Xenogears]

The reason initiative is important is that it can (potentially) give you an extra turn over the enemy. Init +2 is, all other things being equal, a 10% chance that you get to buff your friends or blast your enemies before they've taken an action. However, wizards have loads of ways to boost initiative (Hummingbird - especially with Elven Generalist sub level, Nerveskitter, Martial Wizard variant for Improved Initiative instead of Scribe Scroll), so it may not be necessary. You will notice that all of these ways are available at very low levels.

The reason AC is not very important is that BAB scales and AC doesn't. After a certain point, it becomes cost-prohibitive to continue investing in AC when one can simply stack miss chances. After all, a Ring of Blinking (27,000) means that opponents now hit you half the time, even if their attack bonus is absolutely massive. At low levels, when miss chance is not available and you don't need to spend much to keep AC up, AC is a lot more useful.

Also, -1 for +2 is a crummy deal since the flaw Vulnerable (-1 AC) for the feat Improved Initiative (+4 init) is literally twice as good.

It might be a crummy deal in comparison but it's not in direct competition with that option. If aggressive was a feat or feat/flaw combo or something it would be bad though.

Traits are separate from feats so taking Aggressive at lvl 1 literally costs you nothing (other than 1 AC) which is a fairly good deal IMO since most of the other traits aren't as good (spellgifted is an exception if you want to focus on one school of magic and some others have potential for making a specialist but in general they tend to be along the lines of +1 to one skill and -1 to two others or -2 to one skill).

[SowZ]

It might be a crummy deal in comparison but it's not in direct competition with that option. If aggressive was a feat or feat/flaw combo or something it would be bad though.

Traits are separate from feats so taking Aggressive at lvl 1 literally costs you nothing (other than 1 AC) which is a fairly good deal IMO since most of the other traits aren't as good (spellgifted is an exception if you want to focus on one school of magic and some others have potential for making a specialist but in general they tend to be along the lines of +1 to one skill and -1 to two others or -2 to one skill).

Sometimes the +1 to a save -1 to a save traits are good.

[Xenogears]

Sometimes the +1 to a save -1 to a save traits are good.

Especially +1 to will saves and -1 to reflex. Improve the most important save at the cost of the least important?

[Story]

If you're undead, the -Fort ones look pretty good too.

[Flickerdart]

If you're undead, the -Fort ones look pretty good too.
You'd think so, but most undead are obviously undead, so nobody is going to try and use spells that don't affect them...but when that Disintegrate is coming your way, your lack of CON boost is going to make that save tough to make.