Best way to take advantage of a 40 Charisma

[Deca4531]

Im doing a classic DMM and persist build. i still have 7 lvs to play with and im thinking of going Marshal for 5 levels for Cha mod to saves. at best i could give my whole party a +20 to ref, fort and will. if i put all 7 in i can also give the party +20 to init. at the moment i have

cleric 1 (for domains and turn uses)

Archivist 4 (Heroes of Horror p82) (the class can learn ANY divine spell)

Mystic Wanderer 2 (gives me my Cha to AC and a familiar just for fun + continued spell progression.)

Sacred Exorcist 6 (Defenders of the Faith p68 its a 3.0 book but i have permission to use it) (gives my Extra Turning as a free feat at 3rd and 6th level. + continued spell progression)

I have already read the "X stat to Y bonus" thread.

I have spells picked out already that will boot my melee so i can be a good tank and decent damage dealer. all said and done 50+ str, BAB= to LV and an AC of 80

i wanna put those last 7 levels to good use to take advantage on my Cha but im out of ideas so any tips would be great. or if anyone can suggest a way to improve what i have im open to suggestions.
(i have played around with the idea of pumping up my diplomacy and then asking a God to give me his powers, all i have to do is beat their max of 80 counter roll lol)

[Slipperychicken]

(i have played around with the idea of pumping up my diplomacy and then asking a God to give me his powers, all i have to do is beat their max of 80 counter roll lol)

At 40 Charisma, you already *have* godlike power. Just convince your enemies to join you, then nurse your aching head after the DM chucks a PHB at it.

[dascarletm]

I had a player with insane charisma go marshall. Worth a look. It's in the Miniatures Handbook.

[Darthteej]

At 40 Charisma, you already *have* godlike power. Just convince your enemies to join you, then nurse your aching head after the DM chucks a PHB at it.

A PHB? Please. The Pathfinder Core Rulebook is the only tome large enough to respond to this apocalyptic cheesemongering.

Tables are also an acceptable alternative.

[Erik Vale]

You mean, you don't just take leadership and call it a day?

Any social class or charisma based spellcasting would be a great choice.

[Cranthis]

How did you manage to get 40 charisma? Also, I agree with Erik here. Leadership.

[NotScaryBats]

Two levels in Paladin for Cha to saves and a level in Marshal for Cha to initiative (and dex based skill checks) (for everyone in your party) is pretty cool.

You basically become a Black Ops commander, giving everyone sick Hide, Move Silently, Tumble, etc.

... I like the idea, at least...

[Chilingsworth]

Two levels in Paladin for Cha to saves and a level in Marshal for Cha to initiative (and dex based skill checks) (for everyone in your party) is pretty cool.

You basically become a Black Ops commander, giving everyone sick Hide, Move Silently, Tumble, etc.

... I like the idea, at least...

So, paladin 2/marshal 1/ sorc 11/ spellsword 1/ abjurant champion 5? Let's see that would be sorc casting level 17, BAB +12/+7/+2, right? Presumably +leadership, maybe a ring a evasion to maximize the benefit to reflex saves.

[Vaz]

OA Tattooed Monk 3 with Crane and Bellflower gets you immunity to aging penalties for a free +3, and Bellflower Tattoo gets you to add your Charisma mod to any otger stat a few times a day. Including Charisma. Tattoed Monk 1 is enough just for Bellflower, but it is less uses and not for as long.

Marshal 1 allows you to Motivate X.

Iaijutsu Master 5 allows a Bastard Sword to be used with Weapon Finesse and with Dex to Initiaive, and Charisma Bonus added as bonus damage during an Iaijutsu "Sneak Attack".

So; if you meet the Prerequesites, you can go for Charisma to Hit, to Initiative with a chance for *1.5 Charisma 1/day, Charisma bonus on a Flat Footed Attack, with further damage on said attack being a Charisma based skill.

Problem is loosing Caster Levels. Best way around that is Gate a Solar, Simulacrum, and then find a way to use Fusion (Psionic) to bind the Solar into yourself for 20th Level Cleric Spellcasting, among others; 1/day Wish, DR15/Epic Evil...

[Darthteej]

Problem is loosing Caster Levels. Best way around that is Gate a Solar, Simulacrum, and then find a way to use Fusion (Psionic) to bind the Solar into yourself for 20th Level Cleric Spellcasting, among others; 1/day Wish, DR15/Epic Evil...

At which point the DM progresses to tipping over bookshelves while Deca's browsing them.

Seriously, how DID you get 40 charisma?

[Deca4531]

At which point the DM progresses to tipping over bookshelves while Deca's browsing them.

Seriously, how DID you get 40 charisma?

srt_dex_con_int_wis_cha
_8__10__10_14__14__18 Base
_________2______2___4 Saint (BoED p185)
____________________4 fire touched (DR314 p23)
-2___2__-2__________2 unseely fey (Dragon Compendium p222)
________________2___2 Aasimars
46___6___4______2__10 (spells)
________________________________
52__18__14__14_20__40




and the fire touched template gives me Leadership as a free feat, lol.

[chaos_redefined]

I was gonna recommend Use Magic Device, but then I saw your strength score.

A DM I played with had a campaign with "You must have this many RHD/LA to enter". I played a succubus, but I only had 5 levels to play with, so casting was gonna be limited. My charisma modifier was larger than everyone else's charisma scores, so I had to get creative.

I believe I took a level of cleric for the turn undead uses and the domains (although this was before CC. I'd probably take at least one devotion feat now). 2 levels of something that gave cha to saves (probably hexblade, but don't quote me on this). And... I can't remember what else... But my offense was in the form of a Wand of Energy Substitution (Electricity) Fire Whips. Because if a succubus is gonna have a weapon, it's going to be whips :D.

[Deca4531]

I was gonna recommend Use Magic
I believe I took a level of cleric for the turn undead uses and the domains (although this was before CC. I'd probably take at least one devotion feat now). 2 levels of something that gave cha to saves (probably hexblade, but don't quote me on this). And... I can't remember what else... But my offense was in the form of a Wand of Energy Substitution (Electricity) Fire Whips. Because if a succubus is gonna have a weapon, it's going to be whips :D.

i was thinking of 2LVs of Paladin for the Cha to saves(Divine Grace), then 5 Marshal for Cha to saves AGAIN. lol, +40 to saves before base saves and ability modifiers.

[dspeyer]

How about Suel Arcanamach 2 / Geomancer 5? That brings your archivist casting up to level 17 for all those 9th level spells, and makes save dcs for up to 4th level spells cha-based. Granted, one more level of Geomancer would let you apply that cha to real save-or-lose spells like baleful polymorph, but I can't find a non-cheesy way to get that.

[Deca4531]

How about Suel Arcanamach 2 / Geomancer 5? That brings your archivist casting up to level 17 for all those 9th level spells, and makes save dcs for up to 4th level spells cha-based. Granted, one more level of Geomancer would let you apply that cha to real save-or-lose spells like baleful polymorph, but I can't find a non-cheesy way to get that.

i dont have the feats to take Suel Arcanamach and i cant cast 2lv arcane spells (required for Geomancer)

[Vaz]

What spells got you 52 strength?

Outside of Giant Size for +32 I can' t concieve how else you got so many untyped bonuses.

If you are breaking Charisma, there is Power of Faerun. Sleep your way into becoming the Pope King Merchant Prince Lord Commander, and enjoy the benefits of a +Stupid modifier to your leadership score.

[Deca4531]

What spells got you 52 strength?

Outside of Giant Size for +32 I can' t concieve how else you got so many untyped bonuses.


Righteous Might (PHB p274)
Transmutation
Level: Clr 5, Strength 5
Components: V, S, DF
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)

This spell causes you to grow, doubling your height and multiplying your weight by 8. This increase changes your size category to the next larger one, and you gain a +8 size bonus to Strength and a +4 size bonus to Constitution. You gain a +4 enhancement bonus to your natural armor. You gain damage reduction 5/evil (if you normally channel positive energy) or damage reduction 5/good (if you normally channel negative energy). At 12th level this damage reduction becomes 10/evil or 10/good, and at 15th level it becomes 15/evil or 15/good (the maximum). Your size modifier for AC and attacks changes as appropriate to your new size category. This spell doesn’t change your speed. Determine space and reach as appropriate to your new size.

Bite of the Werebear(SpC p28)
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 7, Drd 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level
You take on certain qualities of a brown bear, almost as though you were a werebear in hybrid form (if werebears had hybrid forms). You gain a +16 enhancement bonus to your Strength score, a +2 enhancement bonus to your Dexterity score, and a +8 enhancement bonus to your Constitution score.You can attack with both claws at your full base attack bonus and your bite at only 2 from your full attack bonus (as if you had the Multiattack feat). The claws deal 1d8 points of damage each (1d6 if you are Small), and the bite deals 2d8 (2d6 if you are Small). You gain the benefits of the Blind-Fight and Power Attack feats as well, and a +7 natural armor bonus.

Girallon's Blessing
(Savage Species, p. 66)

Transmutation
Level: Cleric 3, Sorcerer 3, Wizard 3,
Components: V, S, M,
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

You give the subject one additional pair of arms for every four caster levels.
Each arm ends in a hand with fingers and an opposable thumb.
The spell can create a maximum of five pairs of arms, but the size of the subject limits the number of pairs of additional arms it can have: one for Small, two for Medium-size, three for Large, or four for a Huge or larger creature.
The creature's original arms (if any) are its primary arms, and all others are secondary limbs (if the subject had no arms, the arms created by the spell are its primary arms).
The new limbs can be confusing.
In a stressful or demanding situation, such as combat, the subject must make a Will save (DC 19) or take a -2 penalty on all attack rolls, saves, skill checks, and ability checks until the situation passes.
Nonmagical clothing or armor is destroyed by the transformation, but magic armor and clothing shifts to accommodate the new arms.
The additional arms do not allow additional attacks or several simultaneous physical tasks.
They do not increase the subject's reach.
However, they do allow the subject to use items designed for creatures with more than two arms, or to use a two-handed item and another piece of equipment.
For instance, a subject could wield a greatsword while using a shield.
Material Component: A few strands of girallon hair.
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________
Fuse Arms
(Savage Species)

Transmutation
Level: Cleric 3, Sorcerer 3, Wizard 3,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature with at least four arms or tentacles touched
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

You cause a creature's multiple arms or tentacles to fuse together into a single pair of stronger limbs.
Only limbs that the creature can use as arms or grasping limbs are affected by the spell (so basilisks and monstrous centipedes, neither of which use their limbs to attack or manipulate objects, are unaffected).
For every set of limbs fused into the primary set of limbs, the creature gains +4 to Strength when using those fused limbs (affecting activities that would use those limbs, but not activities relying on its bite, legs, and so on).
For example, a girallon under the effect of this spell would have one pair of arms and Strength 30 for the purpose of using those arms.
A behir, which has three pairs of limbs that it can use as arms, would end up with one pair of arm-limbs with a +8
bonus to Strength for those arms (its six legs would be unaffected).
The loss of limbs reduces the number of attacks available to the subject.

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Giant Size
(Complete Arcane)

Transmutation
Level: Wu Jen 7,
Components: V, S, M,
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 minute

When you cast this spell, you grow to Huge, Gargantuan, or Colossal size, depending on your caster level.
Your Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, natural armor, size modifier to Armor Class and attack rolls, and space and reach all change as shown on the accompanying table.

Caster lv / size / srt / dex / con / nat AC / ac.atk mod / space.reach
1 - 15 huge(20ft) +16 / -2 / +4 / 3 / -2 / 15/15
16 -18 gargantuan(40ft) +24 / -2 / +8 / 7 / -4 / 20/20
19+ colossal(72ft) +31 / -2 / +12 / 12 / -8 / 30/30

(You need not assume the largest size you are capable of; you can choose to grow only to a smaller size if you wish).
All your equipment changes size with you, allowing you to use weapons or magic items effectively in your giant form.
See Table 2-2: Increasing Weapon Damage by Size, page 28 of the Dungeon Master's Guide, to determine the damage dealt by any weapons carried when you cast giant size.
Material Component: The scale of a dragon or hairs from the head of a giant.

[Jack_Simth]

A PHB? Please. The Pathfinder Core Rulebook is the only tome large enough to respond to this apocalyptic cheesemongering.I take it, then, that you've never seen a printed copy of FATAL?

[Seer_of_Heart]

What spells were you using for charisma? Also what's the la of the fire touched template?

[Deca4531]

What spells were you using for charisma? Also what's the la of the fire touched template?

fire touched is a +1, to buy it off costs 1000xp

Nixie's grace (SpC p148)
Transmutation [Water]
Level: Bard 6 (divine bard variant in UA turns all bard spells into divine spells instead of arcane)
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min/level
You gain swim speed 30 feet, water breathing, low-light vision*, DR 5/cold iron, +6 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, and +8 Charisma.

Righteous Aura (Miniatures Handbook)
Abjuration [Good, Light]
Level: Paladin 4,
Components: V, S, DF,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level

You are bathed in an unearthly glow for the duration of the spell (as if a daylight spell had been cast on you).
You get a +4 sacred bonus to your Charisma score.
If you die, your body is converted into an explosive blast of energy in a 20-footradius burst centered where you fell, dealing 2d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 20d6) to all nongood creatures in the burst's area.
Good creatures in the area are healed by the same amount, and undead take double this damage.
Spell resistance cannot prevent this damage, but a successful Reflex save reduces it to half.
Your body is disintegrated, so you cannot be raised with a raise dead spell.
Spells that do not require an intact body, such as true resurrection, can be used to bring you back to life as normal.

[Cranthis]

Where did you find this fire-touched template?

[gallagher]

Just remember that there is a such thing as Divine Bard, which gives you the ability to get glibness through artificer. I know what you are thinking, "I already have naturally the best bluff I have ever had, whats the point?"

Well, I just figure that you could walk up to any king and convince him to let you have the queen for a night. Then you convince him that since you were with the queen, you must be king, or something, because who else would be getting some action from the queen?

Once everyone believes you, you are king, and have an army at your disposal. Then you buff the thousands of "new members of the party"

Bonus if you can convince your DM to let you have a divine prestige bard, since there is a regular divine bard, and have it progress your archivist casting, and you get bardsong so you can sing to your army.

[Zanthy1]

Divine Feats?

turn those extra turn attempts to something more useful (unless you are fighting undead lol)

And I like the idea of marshall and pally


And I would also like to know where to find the flame touched thing lol

[Deca4531]

[QUOTE=gallagher;14523166]Just remember that there is a such thing as Divine Bard, which gives you the ability to get glibness through artificer. I know what you are thinking, "I already have naturally the best bluff I have ever had, whats the point?"

Well, I just figure that you could walk up to any king and convince him to let you have the queen for a night. Then you convince him that since you were with the queen, you must be king, or something, because who else would be getting some action from the queen?
/QUOTE]

i was actually wondering if i took all my followers and told them i WAS a god (not hard to bluff that one im already better looking then most gods) then got them to pray to me, could i then become a god through their worship of me?

and i had the template name wrong it "Fire-Souled" i found it in the crystal keep but it originates from DM#314 p23

[Deca4531]

Divine Feats?

turn those extra turn attempts to something more useful (unless you are fighting undead lol)


this is a Divine Metamagic "DMM" persistant metamagic build. i spend 7 of those turn uses and make any spell i cast (with restrictions) last 24 hours.

[Seer_of_Heart]

There is no RAW way to become a god I believe, the closest thing I think there is to raw is a port of 4e's epic destiny that one of them is the demigod that is suggested at level 30 the player should get to become a minor god. Although I'm pretty sure it never explicitly turns you into a god.

[Deca4531]

There is no RAW way to become a god I believe, the closest thing I think there is to raw is a port of 4e's epic destiny that one of them is the demigod that is suggested at level 30 the player should get to become a minor god. Although I'm pretty sure it never explicitly turns you into a god.

well in all the books that features a god's stats they all appear to be lv 30. if you compare the power of a lv 30 PC to that of a commoner you more or less are a god by comparison.

[Cranthis]

Fire-Souled's LA is +3. Combine that with the Aasimar LA, and the Saint La, you're looking at some ridiculousness.

[Seer_of_Heart]

Fire-Souled's LA is +3. Combine that with the Aasimar LA, and the Saint La, you're looking at some ridiculousness.

You could help reduce the pain a bit and change it to a lesser aasimar, but the +5 la is very painful.

[Deca4531]

Fire-Souled's LA is +3. Combine that with the Aasimar LA, and the Saint La, you're looking at some ridiculousness.

you are correct, fire souled is a +3, crystal keep had it marked wrong. as for Aasimar you can apply the Lesser (players guide to faerune p192) to it and take away its LA. and in the campaign im playing in (bramble queen) we are aloud 2 free LAs so i wasnt worried about saint.

(lets just keep the inaccuracy of crystal keep to ourselves, if the DM dosent know it or check for himself i dont plan on saying anything)

[Seer_of_Heart]

(lets just keep the inaccuracy of crystal keep to ourselves, if the DM dosent know it or check for himself i dont plan on saying anything)

That's unethical :smalleek: I may wish to optimize to a level that would make my DM cry but I would never purposefully lie to him about something I'm using.

[Cranthis]

(lets just keep the inaccuracy of crystal keep to ourselves, if the DM dosent know it or check for himself i dont plan on saying anything)

How about don't be that guy, and ask if you can use one of those 2 la's on fire souled instead so its only 1.

[Deca4531]

That's unethical :smalleek: I may wish to optimize to a level that would make my DM cry but I would never purposefully lie to him about something I'm using.

he has told me that ANYTHING in crystal keep if fair game to use, but nothing else from the DMs if it isnt in CK. its not really my fault his source material isnt accurate. but i plan on using this build as my permanent character so i'll make adjustments to it to account for the real +3 from FS and +2 from saint.

[Prophes0r]

I don't understand if this is an exercise in Char Op or a real character?

If it is real, how could one possibly derive any long term enjoyment out of playing DnD as a god? Either you make the other party members useless, or they are just as godlike, and you can yawn your way through taking over the multiverse (literally).

[Urpriest]

well in all the books that features a god's stats they all appear to be lv 30. if you compare the power of a lv 30 PC to that of a commoner you more or less are a god by comparison.

...almost every god in Deities and Demigods has 40 class levels and 20 outsider hit dice. Where did you get the idea that gods are level 30?

[Vaz]

Ahh, done the same myself. Although how do you plan to get Wu Jen spells?

[Deca4531]

...almost every god in Deities and Demigods has 40 class levels and 20 outsider hit dice. Where did you get the idea that gods are level 30?

yeah i dont know where i had seen that at, was probably looking at something else and got confused lol

[Deca4531]

I don't understand if this is an exercise in Char Op or a real character?

If it is real, how could one possibly derive any long term enjoyment out of playing DnD as a god? Either you make the other party members useless, or they are just as godlike, and you can yawn your way through taking over the multiverse (literally).

lol that was more a joke really, though i would like to see my DMs reaction if i could declare at one point "and then i ask Palor to give me his powers, roll apposed diplomacy."

"umm... you won... i guess your a god now... damn."

[Deca4531]

Ahh, done the same myself. Although how do you plan to get Wu Jen spells?

Wish should let me replicate spell.

[Jack_Simth]

Wish should let me replicate spell.
... do you have a way around the XP cost, or are you going to be using the much-less-expensive Miracle instead?

Edit: Also, are you doing something like Gestalt-20, or are you planning on being five or ten levels behind everyone else?

[Deca4531]

... do you have a way around the XP cost, or are you going to be using the much-less-expensive Miracle instead?

lol, yeah i was just about to edit my post when i saw yours. wish is a wizard spell anyway i would have to use Miracle. giant size if a 7th lv spell to so it would work.

[Jack_Simth]

lol, yeah i was just about to edit my post when i saw yours. wish is a wizard spell anyway i would have to use Miracle. giant size if a 7th lv spell to so it would work.
And... my edit was late, too.

You talk about throwing Miracle around, but you also seem to have a hefty amount of LA in your build; are you doing something like Gestalt-20 so you don't have to worry about the LA, or are you planning to be behind on the class feature, saves, HP, feat curve by multiple levels?

[Deca4531]

And... my edit was late, too.

You talk about throwing Miracle around, but you also seem to have a hefty amount of LA in your build; are you doing something like Gestalt-20 so you don't have to worry about the LA, or are you planning to be behind on the class feature, saves, HP, feat curve by multiple levels?

IIRC there are rules for creating your own spells, i might put it to my DM to make my own version of the spell with maybe less power or something of that nature. otherwise i need 18 levels of spell progression, leaving 2 levels left over for Saint.

[Talionis]

The spell Undersong allows Perform checks instead of Concentration checks. It's cheap to put on a ring so any character can use it. It's also useful to use Concentration for a ton of things.

Devotion feats like Travel and Trickery are fueled by turn attempts and those fueled by Charisma.

[Shaynythyryas]

You could go Risen Martyr to benefit of CHA to deflection CA, which would be, erm, kinda insane ; or find a wand/staff/whatever to cast yourself Sirine's Grace, which gives you too a CHA to CA.

[Deca4531]

You could go Risen Martyr to benefit of CHA to deflection CA, which would be, erm, kinda insane ; or find a wand/staff/whatever to cast yourself Sirine's Grace, which gives you too a CHA to CA.

Sirine's Grace is a bard spell and so falls under the "Divine magic" catigory, my primary class can use any divine spell so i'll already have it. my AC will already be close to 80 at mid level. Cha to AC twice (40 total), 8 armor, 11 natural armor, wis to AC twice (8 to 12 depending), +3 shield (5) and maybe a 5 dex.

10 (skin)
20 (CHA sacred (class feature))
20 (deflection (Sirine's Grace spell))
5 (WIS insight (Saint)
5 (WIS non type (monks belt)
8 (Armor (Luminous Armor, Greater spell))
+3 steel shield (5 AC total
5 (dex bonus)
11 (natural (Spells))
Total = 87

with 1 LV dip into Battle Dancer (dragon compendium) i can get another +20 (CHA non type) to AC.

[Deca4531]

The spell Undersong allows Perform checks instead of Concentration checks. It's cheap to put on a ring so any character can use it. It's also useful to use Concentration for a ton of things.

Devotion feats like Travel and Trickery are fueled by turn attempts and those fueled by Charisma.

i haven never used the Concentration skill before, never had a need to.

and as far as feats go all mine are tied up.