[PF] Alchemist/Rogue Build for Carrion Crown

[Crustypeanut]

So, for an upcoming Carrion Crown campaign, I've been designated the group's Trapfinder. I'm alright with this, but I am having a bit of indecision.

First off, no spoilers from Carrion Crown if you've ran it, please.

The DM is giving us a 15-point build, basically all Paizo books allowed, 'some' additional races in addition to standard are allowed as well. I'll ask him, if the race isn't standard. No Traits, and average gold for the class. Also, no 3.5 or 3rd-party.

The group is looking fairly melee-heavy right now, though no one has finalized their choices. So far it seems we have a Paladin, a Barbarian, and a Melee-Witch (Orc Scarred Witch with 5 int, 5 wis, and 5 cha, but 18 str, 18 con, and 14 dex.) We'll definitely have 5 people, possibly 6. I'm not sure what the other two will be playing yet.

So far I have a few ideas.. mainly aimed around Vivisectionist/Rogue, be it either a ranged build or a melee build. The #1 thing I'm worrying about is having Trapfinding as an ability, so I can disable magic items. I've also looked around at the Crypt Breaker Alchemist, as it would work for what I'm doing.

For my ranged build:

Race: Elf

Stats:
Str 14
Dex 18
Con 10
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 7

Feat: Point Blank Shot
Skills: Craft (Alchemy), Stealth, Disable Device, Perception, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft.

Items: To Be Decided Still

This build will be an archer build through and through. At level 2 and 3 I will be taking levels in Rogue, while getting the Trap Spotter rogue talent at level 3. After that, I'll be taking a few levels of Alchemist. I'm not sure what discoveries to get yet, as there are less good choices for a Vivisectionist. Later feats will include Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Deadly Aim for sure.

The Melee Build:
I could go two ways with this one.. either a tiny little bugger (Halfling?) and go dual-stabby, or I could perhaps look into going Dervish Dancer with someone and go more single-target slashy. I'm not hugely fond of the idea of being small, because I love my consumable alchemical items, and as a small person I can't carry as many.

The Crypt Breaker:
The third idea I have is going entirely alchemist, and taking the Crypt Breaker archetype. This would be far more of a standard alchemist, and its very tempting to do so. I lose Brew Potion in return for Trapfinding, although my mutagen is somewhat crappy, and my bombs are weak against everything but constructs and corporeal-undead.

I do love alchemists, though, and being a more standard alchemist while still being the group's trapfinder is a very tempting idea.

Any suggestions?

[TiaC]

TWF Vivisectionists get a lot of milage out of Extra Arms so that they can get 3 or 4 weapons going. If your DM lets you dual-wield bows then it's also good for archers.

[Corlindale]

Crypt Breaker is not a bad choice for Carrion Crown. Lots of corporeal undead among the enemies, some constructs as well. As for the crappy mutagen - if it bothers you just spend a discovery to take regular Mutagen, then your troubles are over.

Vivisectionist is also very powerful, of course, but if you're set on dipping rogue you are delaying your access to the good extracts, which might not be worth it in the long run if it's just for Trapfinding.
Melee Vivi works well with Feral Mutagen, to get three sneak attacks/round very early in the game. It also combines extremely well with Beastmorph Alchemist, so you can pick up useful stuff like long-duration flight and later on (the big attraction) Pounce. I play in a game with a Vivisectionist/Beastmorph alchemist/barbarian right now, and he's clearly one of the most powerful member of our group.

[StreamOfTheSky]

If you only want trapfinding out of Rogue, I would dip Trapper Freebooter Ranger 1 rather than rogue 1. Don't lose BAB, better saves and HD, and you get a nice party buff. If you go 2 levels in, you can take Natural Weapon style and pick up / actually qualify for Aspect of the Beast (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/aspect-of-the-beast). Which is useful if doing a natural weapon-based build with feral mutagen as now you can have claws on both your original arms and your vestigial arms for bite x 1 and claw x4, all as primary attacks. Obviously to be combined w/ Viv. and Beastmorph archetypes for sneak attack and eventually flight and pounce.

Dipping is a tough sell, though. Delayed access to discoveries, higher level extracts, and (if applicable) pounce from beastmorph really does hurt.

That 15 point buy is going to be rough, Alchemist like the rogue is fairly MAD, especially str-based ones. Getting a race that boosts 2 of either str, dex, or int and lowers cha or maybe wis is basically essential.

If you do want to chuck bombs, which....I don't suggest... focus on being a poor man's wizard rather than DPS. You'll run out of bombs super fast if you try and build for damage-dealing. Instead, get Dispelling Bomb, Smoke and Stink Bomb, Confusion Bomb (make sure the DM understands that in return for needing to hit touch AC and only affecting a single target, it gives no save), things like that. Goblin is a decent choice despite not boosting Int (which should be a bomber's highest stat priority) just because of their Rocket discovery, which will let you get a much bigger radius on your gaseous bombs. A bomber should absolutely go Mind Chemist for the int-boosting cognatogen and the sexy double int to knowledge checks.

[krai]

TWF Vivisectionists get a lot of milage out of Extra Arms so that they can get 3 or 4 weapons going. If your DM lets you dual-wield bows then it's also good for archers.

Or dual wield and two hand at the same time.

[Crustypeanut]

The -only- issue I have with being a Melee Alchemist is that we're melee heavy already. I do like the idea of dual wielding greatswords for sillyness, of course, but my main goal is to be the scout and trapfinder.

I also don't like the idea of using natural weapons too much.. its never been my thing. I'm more of a weapons-guy..

Anyhoo, here is my ideas, in more detail, with the Cryptbreaker. (Sadly I can't go Mindchemist and Crypt Breaker archetypes, but I can get the cognatogen mutagen through discovery as early as level 2 if I wish)

Race: Elf (I hate Elves, but my friend hates them more, and I'm trolling him)

Str: 10
Dex: 14 (16 after)
Con: 12 (10 after)
Int: 16 (18 after)
Wis: 12
Cha: 7

Skills (8): Disable Device, Perception, Stealth, Craft (Alchemy), Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Knowledge (Arcana), Heal

Feats: Throw Anything (B), Splash Weapon Mastery (1st)

Extracts (7): Shield, Crafter's Fortune, Expeditious Retreat, Targeted Bomb Admixture, Ant Haul, Bomber's Eye, Longshot

Items: Various consumable alchemical weapons.. I have 140g to start with.

[Larpus]

Personally, I'd go bomb Alchemist with no dips and, as Steam mentioned, ignore damage for the most part, except for the first couple of levels where it's actually sort of decent, think of your bombs as debuffs/controls with a secondary damage component to them.

As it's been said, Vivisectionist is way better if used with natural weapons, as it's so easy for the Alchemist to get at least 3, otherwise, it gets a bit feat-expensive and doesn't really add anything (for example, if you make the Vivisectionist Str-based, you don't need Weapon Finesse, get full Str bonus on all 3+ natural attacks, and full BAB).

Also, the only good trapfinding does for you is disarm magical traps, I say it's better to simply think of other ways to deal with them, such as the staple Wand of SMI (which you can use with UMD) or Dispelling Bombs; so it's nice to have, but not entirely necessary (in fact, given how poorly done and uninteresting traps usually are, some DMs ignore them for the most part unless there's a trapper in the group).

That said, Crypt Breaker isn't a bad archetype, but I personally prefer Grenadier or Mindchemist over it, as their abilities are overall better.

[Crustypeanut]

Knowing my DM, I have a feeling he will be rather ruthless with traps, as he is known to be, so this is why I'm making sure I can be a decent trapfinder. I suppose I could always get the Barbarian to be the trapfinder, as they're amazing at finding traps with their faces.

But yeah, I will be going Crypt Breaker, but early on I will be grabbing the Mindchemist's mutagen for increased bomb damage. I most likely will be using my bombs for control quite often, as I can't see our Muscle Witch being great for Crowd Control.. as he's going to combine Hex Strike with various hexes. That'll leave him in close combat most of the time.. and this particular player isn't known for his knowledge of spells. He's almost always plays a physical character.