Tumbling in Medium/Heavy Armor

[Andezzar]

According to the PHB you cannot use tumble if your speed is reduced due to armor or carried equipment.

What ways are there to enable the character to tumble while wearing medium/heavy armor?
I already know about changing the race to dwarf and the tooth of Savnok. Those are not options for me.

BTW does a net reduction of -0 ft (e.g. medium armor+ boots of springing and striding) also count as a speed reduction?

[Sliver]

I don't know about methods, but yes, it counts as speed reduction.

[Cog]

Knights and Dwarves can both do it. There's probably an armor property out there somewhere that'd take off the speed penalty, but I have no idea what it is if it exists.

[Darrin]

Knights and Dwarves can both do it. There's probably an armor property out there somewhere that'd take off the speed penalty, but I have no idea what it is if it exists.

For medium armors, special materials to knock the weight category down to light is the best way to go. Darkleaf is generally cheapest (A&EG or Eberron Campaign Setting), while mithral is probably the most popular. If you can't do mithral, then sentira (Secrets of Sarlona) or firebrass (Secrets of Xendrik) are the same price and have the same stats. Dragoncraft armor (Draconomicon) is also considered one category lighter, but has some quirks to it (no breastplates by RAW).

For tumbling, you may want to consider a Hellforged (DMGII) Darkleaf MW Tumbler's Breastplate (Races of Stone). It's exotic, but Hellforged plus Darkleaf or Mithral drops the ACP to zero, which means the non-proficiency penalty is zero. +2 circumstance bonus on Tumble checks.

For heavy armor, you need to use the half-weight property (+3 enhancement, FR Underdark). This lets you treat any heavy armor as if it were light. Not exactly cheap, though.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Take a level of Binder and bind Aym for Dwarven Step.

[Andezzar]

For medium armors, special materials to knock the weight category down to light is the best way to go. Darkleaf is generally cheapest (A&EG or Eberron Campaign Setting), while mithral is probably the most popular. If you can't do mithral, then sentira (Secrets of Sarlona) or firebrass (Secrets of Xendrik) are the same price and have the same stats. Dragoncraft armor (Draconomicon) is also considered one category lighter, but has some quirks to it (no breastplates by RAW).I know that making armor count as Light will work, but I actually wanted to keep using a mithral full plate, and am more interested in removing the speed reduction (which is great for jumping as well).


For tumbling, you may want to consider a Hellforged (DMGII) Darkleaf MW Tumbler's Breastplate (Races of Stone). It's exotic, but Hellforged plus Darkleaf or Mithral drops the ACP to zero, which means the non-proficiency penalty is zero. +2 circumstance bonus on Tumble checks.Interesting. I doubt though you will get hellforged armor at your local magic mart. How does the template even help? The wording of the rules for the tumbler's breasplate is weird though: "Those skilled in its use can take advantage of the breastplate’s protection when tumbling". This means a) that even though the ACP is zero you do not get the breastplate's protection if you are not skilled while tumbling and b) that wording does not actually say that you may start to tumble while wearing this piece of medium armor (which is normally forbidden). It only allows you to use the armor bonus (and possibly skill bonus), if you (may) tumble while wearing it. The intention of the rule most likely is to allow tumbling while wearing the armor, but that is not what the rules say.

Yikes while looking up the hellforged template I found bikini mail (i.e. Gloryborn armor),


For heavy armor, you need to use the half-weight property (+3 enhancement, FR Underdark). This lets you treat any heavy armor as if it were light. Not exactly cheap, though.Ouch that hurts, and it does not even work properly with adamantine.

[Starbuck_II]

According to the PHB you cannot use tumble if your speed is reduced due to armor or carried equipment.

What ways are there to enable the character to tumble while wearing medium/heavy armor?
I already know about changing the race to dwarf and the tooth of Savnok. Those are not options for me.

BTW does a net reduction of -0 ft (e.g. medium armor+ boots of springing and striding) also count as a speed reduction?

Seeing as the Tooth is cheap, why not the tooth and nothing but the Tooth so help you Bob?

[Andezzar]

Seeing as the Tooth is cheap, why not the tooth and nothing but the Tooth so help you Bob?Because no one knows how the tooth is made and there is only one in the world at any given time.

[Darrin]

Because no one knows how the tooth is made and there is only one in the world at any given time.

You are also under Savnok's influence and suffer a penalty if you ever remove a defensive item for any reason.

[Andezzar]

You are also under Savnok's influence and suffer a penalty if you ever remove a defensive item for any reason.... until you rip the tooth out.

[Gildedragon]

The "Called" special ability may be of use here. Tumble then summon the armor on.

[Flickerdart]

You are also under Savnok's influence and suffer a penalty if you ever remove a defensive item for any reason.
If you're a dwarf, you're always under the influence! :smallbiggrin:

[Ravens_cry]

The "Called" special ability may be of use here. Tumble then summon the armor on.
What action is calling?

[Jeraa]

What action is calling?

Standard action.

[Andezzar]

Standard action.Exactly. So it's not really an option for combat. If you use Tumble to earn money, you probably won't be wearing your armor anyways

[Gwendol]

A few levels of knight lets you use medium armor with no speed penalty. Mithral full plate counts as medium.

[Gildedragon]

It's not too bad, using the standard action to call it, one tumbles into position, calls the armor, and is ready for the next turn. This doesn't let you tumble away from someone though, unless you're hasted.

Alternatively Extended Greater Luminous Armor from BoED cast on oneself is a feather-light breastplate.

[Andezzar]

A few levels of knight lets you use medium armor with no speed penalty. Mithral full plate counts as medium.Well the idea was Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Warblade 16 eventually, now the character is at CL 8 and invested in a mithral full plate. Replacing 4 warblade levels will cost me 9th level maneuvers force an alignment change and saddle me with a code of conduct for the usage of one skill and some other semi useless features (mounted combat on a winged character, knight's challenge 1/day). That does not seem worth it.

@Guigarci: that also won't help avoiding the possible AoO during a charge, which is the characters main form of attack and what I try to avoid most.

Any ideas what material to use for a half-weight full plate besides steel? Adamantine obviously is bad.

[Gildedragon]

There's Feycraft to drop the weight by 10% (+500gp)
Bronzewood also lowers the weight by 10% (+250gp/lb)
Chitin lowers the weight by 50% (+10kgp)
Halfweight armor enhancement (+3 bonus)

[Andezzar]

Weight is not an issue only the speed reduction. The character has a natural STR of 20 and a handy haversack for other heavy stuff.

[Gildedragon]

I understood you were asking about materials to get the medium armor weight.
Elven Darkleaf is the cheapest.
As to the halfweight enchantment, it would make the mithral fullplate it light armor by my reading of it.

[Andezzar]

I understood you were asking about materials to get the medium armor weight.There is no medium armor weight. There are only three (four with exotic) types of armor that have a speed reduction or don't. A weight reduction does nothing to the type of armor. What load a peice of armor creates depends on the STR of the wearer.


As to the halfweight enchantment, it would make the mithral fullplate it light armor by my reading of it.Yup. If no other solution can be found that is what I will do. But that is too expensive at the moment.

[Darrin]

Any ideas what material to use for a half-weight full plate besides steel? Adamantine obviously is bad.

Why would adamantine be bad? There's nothing in the description of half-weight that says it doesn't work with adamantine.

In Dragon #355, there's a fighter ACF called Armored Savant that lets you trade your bonus feat for the ability to treat armor as if it were one weight category lighter. Combined with mithral or darkleaf, that gets heavy armor down to light.

[Andezzar]

Why would adamantine be bad? There's nothing in the description of half-weight that says it doesn't work with adamantine.
A halfweight armor is treated as light armor in every way, except that the protection it provides is not affected.Now that I read it again, I'm not so sure anymore, but his could be interpreted as reducing the DR adamantine provides from 3 to 1

[Darrin]

Now that I read it again, I'm not so sure anymore, but his could be interpreted as reducing the DR adamantine provides from 3 to 1

Hmmm... I guess that depends on if you consider "protection" to include "Damage Reduction". I would, but sounds like a DM's call.

[Starbuck_II]

Well the idea was Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Warblade 16 eventually, now the character is at CL 8 and invested in a mithral full plate. Replacing 4 warblade levels will cost me 9th level maneuvers force an alignment change and saddle me with a code of conduct for the usage of one skill and some other semi useless features (mounted combat on a winged character, knight's challenge 1/day). That does not seem worth it.

@Guigarci: that also won't help avoiding the possible AoO during a charge, which is the characters main form of attack and what I try to avoid most.

Any ideas what material to use for a half-weight full plate besides steel? Adamantine obviously is bad.

Knights only lose a challenge useage if they break code. And there code says they can't force their code on others. So no stick up your butt.

[Gwendol]

Well the idea was Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Warblade 16 eventually, now the character is at CL 8 and invested in a mithral full plate. Replacing 4 warblade levels will cost me 9th level maneuvers force an alignment change and saddle me with a code of conduct for the usage of one skill and some other semi useless features (mounted combat on a winged character, knight's challenge 1/day). That does not seem worth it.


You get Bulwark of defence, which is far from useless. Four uses of knight challenge (test of mettle, which will do you little good, and fighting challenge, which is a minor free action self-buff), shield block +1 (useful with a buckler?), besides the bonus feat.