Epic Spells and how they work

[Melcar]

Hello all...

These questions migt have been asked before... but here goes anyway.

When it comes to epic spellcasting, it says that the DC of epic spells are 20+ability score. Int for wiz, Cha for Sorc, and Wiz for Cleric and so forth...

1. Now first question... should it be allowed for an arch mage(3.0 ed) to ad his +6 DC bonus from high arcana to the DC of his epic spells? And what of other spell DC bonuses? I think its weak, that a wizard can have a higher base DC of normal spells that his DC for epic. What is your take of this???


2. When it comes to countering spells, can one counter epic spell the same way as countering normal spells? If not how does it work?

[GreenSerpent]

Don't know about 1, but for 2 I know there's an Epic Counterspell epic spell in the Epic Level Handbook.

[rockdeworld]

1. Yes, epic spells cast by an arcane spellcaster (eg wizard/sorcerer) are arcane, so Spell Power applies. Others I would look at on an individual basis. Even if it were not so, I would not think it weak, since in the development of an epic spell you can raise the DC arbitrarily high anyway.

2. Epic spells are treated as 10th level spells (so yes, a heightened Silent Image could have a higher level than an epic spell). DC 25 Spellcraft check to identify one when cast, then counter with the same spell or Dispel Magic/Greater Dispel Magic/Superb Dispelling/Custom Epic Dispelling Spell XYZ.

[Melcar]

So other than the fact, that epic spells count as level 10 spell, its completly the same as countering normal spell? Nice!

I was thinking specifically about the speacial ability gained by the prestige class Arcane Avatar, where one lear to counter spell via the ability to mentally "snuff" out the casting of a spell. [Opposed casterlevel check] And since epic spells is "just" a level 10 spell I'm guessing that this Arcane Avatar ability will work just fine on epic spells.

The PrC Arcane Avatar can be found in Quintessential Wizard

[Arcanist]

When it comes to epic spellcasting, it says that the DC of epic spells are 20+ability score. Int for wiz, Cha for Sorc, and Wiz for Cleric and so forth...

Indeed this is true. The formula for this would obviously indicate that Epic spells are 10th level spells that occupy a special spell slot (The Epic Spell slot).


1. Now first question... should it be allowed for an arch mage(3.0 ed) to ad his +6 DC bonus from high arcana to the DC of his epic spells? And what of other spell DC bonuses? I think its weak, that a wizard can have a higher base DC of normal spells that his DC for epic. What is your take of this???

It is allowed unless otherwise house ruled away by the DM. Archmage isn't a Wizard only prestige class (Sorcerers CAN get it if they jump through hoops) so in my opinion it is perfectly fair. Regardless of all this, however if you truly want to qualify a Cleric for Archmage, by all means take Southern Magician.


2. When it comes to countering spells, can one counter epic spell the same way as countering normal spells? If not how does it work?

You can indeed counter Epic Spells with non-Epic spells, but it is tricky. The Spellcraft DC for this being 25 and you have to cast the same spell back at them (that is the tricky part) so generally it is easier to just use Epic Counterspell or try and get REALLY lucky with a Greater Dispel Magic (you need a 13 or higher to beat a 21st level character with Epic Spellcasting).

EDIT: Do note that upon reaching 30th level it becomes impossible to dispel Epic Spells with 9th and under (you cannot beat a DC 41 with a Dispel check (1d20 + 20 for a maximum of 40)). At least I don't believe a nat 20 CL check qualifies as an auto success by RAW (I recall that right being exclusive to Attacks and Saves)

[Slipperychicken]

So other than the fact, that epic spells count as level 10 spell, its completly the same as countering normal spell? Nice!


Do remember, though, that a caster must succeed a dispel check to suppress Epic magic with an Antimagic Field.

[Melcar]

If Spell Power from Arch Mage raises the DC og Epic spell, as it does normal spell, how then about Spell Focus? Either from feats or Specialist wizardry. Like that of Red Wizards of Thay?

[Arcanist]

If Spell Power from Arch Mage raises the DC og Epic spell, as it does normal spell, how then about Spell Focus? Either from feats or Specialist wizardry. Like that of Red Wizards of Thay?

I might be wrong, but yes since it specifies "All level dependant Spell variables".

[Urpriest]

Remember that Archmage was updated to 3.5. One of the big elements of the 3.5 update was an attempt to make it harder to increase save DCs, so if you're playing 3.5 you should use the updated version.

[Melcar]

Remember that Archmage was updated to 3.5. One of the big elements of the 3.5 update was an attempt to make it harder to increase save DCs, so if you're playing 3.5 you should use the updated version.

Yes... But my question was more of a generela inquiry. If the things stacked or not! But yes I know about the updated version!

[Arcanist]

If the things stacked or not!

In 3.0, Yes. In 3.5, No.

[Melcar]

And what about the feat Spell Focus?

[Arcanist]

And what about the feat Spell Focus?

Yes. It does stack.


]
Choose a school of magic.

Benefit:Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against spells from the school of magic you select.

Special:You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new school of magic.

[Melcar]

Would you guys also say that the Arcane Avatar ability that "snuffs" out a spell, at is is being cast, byt force of will, [Caster level check] would work on an epic spell?

Sorry if im repeating my self here! :smallredface:

[Arcanist]

Would you guys also say that the Arcane Avatar ability that "snuffs" out a spell, at is is being cast, byt force of will, [Caster level check] would work on an epic spell?

As much as I'd hate to admit it, yes. It appears to be so. I will also note that this prestige class is highly borked since it more or less gives you Versatile Spellcaster as a class feature. (Now just imagine it with Uncanny Forethought).

[Melcar]

It got my thinking about getting Epic counterspell feat, and having this class... Any number of times per day... it says about countering. Without forgoing your actons for the round. And countering without the use of magic... Seem right! :smallcool: