DM Check : Allow your Bards to use Bagpipes?

[silverwolfer]

One of my players wants a bard that uses bagpipes, and some of my other players are worried that it will break the "dark " mood of the game and make it silly.


My only real question is, am I going to have to amke the pipes be mournful you think or sort of dirge playing so folks don't turn into giggles like when someone says the word butt or farts.

[Juntao112]

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. Bagpipes aren't an inherently funny instrument and have often be used in quite somber situations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtQUePN5y40).

[nedz]

I would allow this — of course.

Bagpipes often strike people as funny but they are a standard instrument in military bands — not just in Scottish ones. They used to be much more widespread and traditions exist across Europe.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I don't see a problem, but then I don't see anything funny about bagpipes.

I've seen them as alternately either very somber or very aggravating, never funny.

[Khaelic]

As a historical note:
Bagpipes were used to strike fear into the hearts of the enemy and bolster the morale of the troops on the side which was playing them. I don't know if there is a MORE bardic instrument.

[Yahzi]

Bagpipes are a lot less funny than bards.

[GreenSerpent]

In the Arms and Equipment Guide bagpipes give a bonus to generating Fear effects, I think. AFB just now so can't check.

[Ravens_cry]

I wanted to create a halfling bard who used special bagpipes that created a thunderstone effect around me, but, alas, my DM would not let me.
Still, I see no reason why not for bagpipes in general.

[Togo]

You're dealing with a class that sings at people in combat. Bagpipes are a step up.

[HunterOfJello]

Bagpipes are fine. They're really not a silly instrument at all if you listen to them in person.

Make sure the person is aware, however, that bagpipes are one of the loudest musical instruments out there. Bagpipes will definitely alert an entire dungeon to a person's presence.

[hymer]

My only real question is, am I going to have to amke the pipes be mournful you think or sort of dirge playing so folks don't turn into giggles like when someone says the word butt or farts.

This raises questions...
How often do you go to any length to describe what the bard plays? Why isn't the bard's player doing the describing? And after a few times, are you describing it very much, beyond the mechanical effects?
But I'll say my experience at table differs vastle from yours. Giggles are uncommon at most, and the words equivalent to 'fart' and 'butt' are unamusing. But(t) whatever floats your boat.

[Killer Angel]

One of my players wants a bard that uses bagpipes, and some of my other players are worried that it will break the "dark " mood of the game and make it silly.

There are very few instruments that are perfectly suited for a battlefield.
Bagpipes are one of 'em.

[Socratov]

Not in the AEG, but in Song and Silence:


a single, low-pitched, buzzing tone. Together, these provide harmony for the chanter’s tune. A few societies prize bagpipes for their distinctive qualities, though their music is defi nitely an acquired taste. The instrument is very strenuous to play because the piper must keep the bag supplied with enough air to fi ll all four pipes at once. Therefore, a musician who can play long pieces on it wins the grudging respect of his or her fellows, whatever their feelings toward bagpipes in the abstract. a single, low-pitched, buzzing tone. Together, these provide harmony for the chanter’s tune. A few societies prize bagpipes for their distinctive qualities, though their
music is defi nitely an acquired taste. The instrument is very strenuous to play because the piper must keep the bag supplied with enough air to fi ll all four pipes at once. Therefore, a musician who can play long pieces on it
wins the grudging respect of his or her fellows, whatever their feelings toward bagpipes in the abstract.

Bardic Music: The musician can produce an unearthly
wail that imposes a -1 morale penalty on the listeners’
saving throws against fear effects. This is a supernatural,
mind-affecting ability.

[nedz]

Make sure the person is aware, however, that bagpipes are one of the loudest musical instruments out there. Bagpipes will definitely alert an entire dungeon to a person's presence.

True, but since you learn the pipes by just playing the chanter it needent be quite so loud. It's two instruments for the price of one really.

[Douglas]

Make sure the person is aware, however, that bagpipes are one of the loudest musical instruments out there. Bagpipes will definitely alert an entire dungeon to a person's presence.
I thought that was usually the reason for a bard to want them. Inspire Courage has a range of "everyone who can hear you", after all.

[Socratov]

In that case, use an alphorn, they have a range of effect of miles :smallbiggrin:

[nedz]

Shame that there isn't a magical equivalent of an amplifier.

[Guizonde]

i can confirm bagpipes augment fear effects (and resisting them).

you want silly? stay away from dirge-playing instruments.

accordeons are where silly's at.
accordeons may be the instrument of the devil, but fear-enducing they are not.

[Ravens_cry]

Bagpipes are not silly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTolf2Qa2xs), least of all when you hear a battalion of them squealing and droning. A fierce, warriors instrument, equal to, if not surpassing, drums.

[Laserlight]

The pipes are fine. I prefer an Irish version, uilleann pipes.

If you want silly, an accordion will do for a start, but nothing surpasses a halfling war kazoo.

[nedz]

If you want silly, an accordion will do for a start, but nothing surpasses a halfling war kazoo.

I raise you a Grand Piano.

[Gullara]

Play a bard that pumps strength so he can lug around his grand piano. *nodnod*

[TuggyNE]

The pipes are fine. I prefer an Irish version, uilleann pipes.

If you want silly, an accordion will do for a start, but nothing surpasses a halfling war kazoo.

VUVUZELA. That is all.

[nedz]

No he's a halfling; but he does have leadership and thus knows a man who can.

[Acanous]

Heck yes, Bagpipes are not only one of the best instruments for carrying sound across a cluttered battlefield, they're actually one of the more traditional instruments in D&D. They are featured prominently in Ravenloft. (Don't believe me? Google "Ravenloft Bagpipes" :p)

There was even a set of enchanted bagpipes in 2E's Ravenloft setting. It's been reprinted, renamed, and remade in every edition of the game since then. So yes, I allow Bagpipes at my table.

Convincing other DMs to do so, however...

[Guizonde]

If you want silly, an accordion will do for a start, but nothing surpasses a halfling war kazoo.

ok, now i want more than silly: i want stats! i've got a 90ish% chance of having to reroll as a halfling slinger/rock skipper using only stale pastry as ammo (sometimes even a serious dm allows rule of silly). i will need this, even for no other reason than flavor!

regarding vuvuzelas, even evil has standards.

i guess we're upping the ante on silly, so let's go all the way: a cannon (proof it's legit: 1812 overture)

legit newbie dm question: i've got a pf bard who's taken 3 different flutes, a lyre, and a bell for the different bonuses. i said ok since they're all small, but is it legit for a bard to wield so many instruments?

[silverwolfer]

My bard uses his bardic fascinate by firing a cannon at your face, you are now dazed

[Deophaun]

If you want silly, then you need more cowbell.

[Guizonde]

My bard uses his bardic fascinate by firing a cannon at your face, you are now dazed

does this synergize with bagpipes? an eerie dirge followed by tinnitus and a headache? why yes it does! the cannon does both too!

[Answerer]

Count me as a +1 to the "bagpipes are decidedly unsilly" crowd. The most common use of the things in the modern day is for dirges, particularly military and police ones, and historically they were a major instrument used in combat for inspiration and direction (alongside, primarily, the drums and the trumpet, IIRC).


If you want silly, then you need more cowbell.
Aaaand Deophaun wins the thread.

[AsteriskAmp]

Play a bard that pumps strength so he can lug around his grand piano. *nodnod*I had a bard player who used a Harpischord in combat; it was pulled by fleshrakers.

[Chilingsworth]

Shame that there isn't a magical equivalent of an amplifier.

Amplify Spell, SpC Pg 10.

Casting it near Night twists can prove deadly, though.

[Kuulvheysoon]

You're dealing with a class that sings at people in combat. Bagpipes are a step up.


There are very few instruments that are perfectly suited for a battlefield.
Bagpipes are one of 'em.


Bagpipes are not silly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTolf2Qa2xs), least of all when you hear a battalion of them squealing and droning. A fierce, warriors instrument, equal to, if not surpassing, drums.


Count me as a +1 to the "bagpipes are decidedly unsilly" crowd. The most common use of the things in the modern day is for dirges, particularly military and police ones, and historically they were a major instrument used in combat for inspiration and direction (alongside, primarily, the drums and the trumpet, IIRC).

Really, need anything more be said?

[Chilingsworth]

legit newbie dm question: i've got a pf bard who's taken 3 different flutes, a lyre, and a bell for the different bonuses. i said ok since they're all small, but is it legit for a bard to wield so many instruments?

Sure they can... but not all at once!

Also, that list of insturments will require ranks in multiple perform skills. Also, the ability to use different types of bardic music is dependant on the number of ranks you have in the perform skill you're using.

So... if he wants to use all those intsruments for all his types of bardic music, he'll need to keep three perform skills up to the needed levels. (one (wind instruments) for the flutes, one (string instruments) for the lyre, and one (percussion, I think?) for the bell.)

Of course, all that is based on the 3.5 bard and perform skill. Not sure how much of it is relevant to pf.

[silverwolfer]

Rod of many instruments?

[Deophaun]

Sure they can... but not all at once!
What (http://funguerilla.com/images/cool-amazing/one-man-band/one-man-band05.jpg) are (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qEF6pQy0fWI/Ta-Z48nxrQI/AAAAAAAAAIA/WcOOAGf888I/s1600/Bill+OneManBand.jpg#one%20man%20band) you (http://www.visualphotos.com/photo/2x2738174/one-man_band_CBR001863.jpg) talking (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hdVNEYXbxks/TCRLcKA8CbI/AAAAAAAABNE/f4IwBadYYvY/s1600/one-man-band01.jpg) about? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXMuWi0dUBc)

[silverwolfer]

pretty sure one man band

[mistformsquirrl]

Bagpipes are not silly, bagpipes are *awesome* >.> Yes, I would definitely allow them. (How did anyone get the idea pipes were silly anyway?!)

[Talderas]

Count me as a +1 to the "bagpipes are decidedly unsilly" crowd. The most common use of the things in the modern day is for dirges, particularly military and police ones, and historically they were a major instrument used in combat for inspiration and direction (alongside, primarily, the drums and the trumpet, IIRC).


Aaaand Deophaun wins the thread.

Bagpipes were used by Scottish soldiers in World War II. Bill Millin was a piper, he played the pipes during D-Day. What he did was effectively immortalized in the film The Longest Day.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/world/europe/20millin.html?_r=0

In the US, bagpipes are primarily used for dirges. Highland Laddie is a piper song that is used for many commonwealth regiment especially among regiments that have Scottish affiliation.

[Jeff the Green]

Hell yeah! Do you not remember Substitutiary Locomotion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs33mAlkXDI)?

[Laserlight]

If you want silly, an accordion will do for a start, but nothing surpasses a halfling war kazoo.

I raise you a Grand Piano.

No he's a halfling; but he does have leadership and thus knows a man who can.

There's a reason I keep that 23-strength orc around.


Also, that list of insturments will require ranks in multiple perform skills. Also, the ability to use different types of bardic music is dependent on the number of ranks you have in the perform skill you're using.

That's what the Versatile Performer feat is for.

[Deophaun]

And I'm sorry I missed this (too busy with the one-man-band silliness):

Also, the ability to use different types of bardic music is dependant on the number of ranks you have in the perform skill you're using.
This is incorrect. You need a certain amount of ranks in a Perform skill to use a bardic music ability, that is true. However, nothing says that you must use that particular Perform skill to execute the ability. Now, for some applications of bardic music where the success is based on a Perform check, like fascinate, you would want to use the Perform skill you have the most ranks in. However, for others, like Inspire Courage, you don't even need to use a Perform skill at all.

['Able' Xanthis]

I already do.

In one of my current campaigns the dread necro bard has a set of bagpipes that he has been building since level one, one of two side projects the guy has been working on. It looks like an engorged heart with heavily carved bone where the pipes would be. He has it custom enchanted to sound like little girls are laughing in the background of the wet sounding buzz that a regular bagpipe would make. It improves the DCs of his fear spells and the resistance of his undead from turning, but only while it plays and only by a +2.

It's very flavorful and fun to have a bagpiper, as they were the traditional instrument used to scare the hair off people way back in the day in places like Scotland and such.

So, yeah I'd allow it.

[Socratov]

If I ever play a bard in a silly campaign, it will be a bard with leadership to have people tug around an organ made by 'bloody stupid' Johnson. It has all fun effects like eathquakes an lightning and such :smallbiggrin: