Nerveskitter and wands problem

[ddude987]

Hello,
A long time lurker here on the forums I decided to finally join and post. This decision was mainly because I don't know if my rules guru was correct on this, and Google could not answer this question. Plus I decided it was about time to start posting.
I have a character that is primarily a tank but can cast both Cleric and Wizard spells from wands. I use wand bracers to have easy access to the wands during combat. Wand bracers say it is a swift action to draw a wand. Nerveskitter, according to spell compendium, says that it is an immediate action to cast.
Can I draw and cast Nerveskitter before initiative is rolled provided we are not surprised? Also, what is the extent of being allowed to draw and cast Nerveskitter.
Thanks!

[ericgrau]

A swift can only be done on your turn. If you know a fight is coming you would have to draw the wand before the fight, not at the begining of it, only then would you be able to cast nerve-skitter.

Can you always be carrying the wand of nerveskitter? How long does it take to put a wand back into a wand bracer?

[ddude987]

It is a full round action to replace it. Normally I will just drop the wand and either find it later or have it tied to my hand so it doesn't fall to the ground. Before combat starts since there is no initiative and therefore no turn order, I can just say I draw the wand? Also holding it all the time is possible.

[Juntao112]

Wand Chambers from Dungeonscape allow you to store wands in weapons and use them while wielding the weapon.

[ddude987]

Wand Chambers from Dungeonscape allow you to store wands in weapons and use them while wielding the weapon.

Good idea. However, I am playing a warshaper and don't use weapons. Unless Armor spikes can hold wands :smalltongue:

[DEMON]

You can also use a wand chamber with a shield... are you perhaps carrying a (wild) shield? Maybe buckler? Other than that, just carrying the wand in your hand, as was suggested above, should do the trick for you, too.

[Slipperychicken]

Perhaps you could simply hold the wand in your hand when you anticipate a combat situation, like while wandering through a mission area or dungeon.

[Larkas]

First of all, welcome!

Now, on the ruling, immediate actions and swift actions take the same "action slot". Hence, you couldn't use both a swift and immediate action in the same round.

Regardless, it doesn't really matter. Activating wands is always at least a standard action. This is both bad and good for you. Bad because you must spend a standard action using the wand, which is big. Good because you can use a swift and a standard action to draw and cast from the wand in the same round. :smallwink:

[DEMON]

First of all, welcome!

Now, on the ruling, immediate actions and swift actions take the same "action slot". Hence, you couldn't use both a swift and immediate action in the same round.

Regardless, it doesn't really matter. Activating wands is always at least a standard action. This is both bad and good for you. Bad because you must spend a standard action using the wand, which is big. Good because you can use a swift and a standard action to draw and cast from the wand in the same round. :smallwink:

Rules Compendium waived off this ruling - it takes the same action to activate a spell off a wand as it would to actually cast it yourself (from your spell slot).

Of course this also makes it impossible to use swift action to draw the wand from the Wand Bracer and then cast a Swift/Immediate action spell from it in the same round, so you got me there :)

[Deophaun]

In addition to the problem Larkas mentioned, even if you could use the wand as an immediate action, it would still do you no good in regards to nerveskitter. Nerveskitter is only useful if you can cast it while flat-footed, which while possible with the actual spell, wouldn't be possible with a use-activated, spell completion, or command activated magic item.

[Larkas]

Rules Compendium waived off this ruling - it takes the same action to activate a spell off a wand as it would to actually cast it yourself (from your spell slot).

Is that so? Man, I really must take a closer look at that book when I have the opportunity, it changed too many things to notice by a mere flip through the pages. I guess it must have something to do with the introduction of immediate and swift actions, huh?

[ddude987]

After re-reading Nerveskitter in the Spell Compendium, it says "You cast this spell when you and your party roll for initiative." So would this overrule the fact that after drawing the wand I could not cast it?

[DEMON]

After re-reading Nerveskitter in the Spell Compendium, it says "You cast this spell when you and your party roll for initiative." So would this overrule the fact that after drawing the wand I could not cast it?

I don't think so, as casting the spell still takes the immediate action you don't have anymore, as it was already spent in the form of a swift action on drawing it from the bracer.

[Deophaun]

After re-reading Nerveskitter in the Spell Compendium, it says "You cast this spell when you and your party roll for initiative." So would this overrule the fact that after drawing the wand I could not cast it?
No. Spells stored in wands are activated, not cast, so it doesn't work.

[Slipperychicken]

After re-reading Nerveskitter in the Spell Compendium, it says "You cast this spell when you and your party roll for initiative." So would this overrule the fact that after drawing the wand I could not cast it?

Ask your DM. Honestly, unless he's a total prick, he'll let the spell be cast as intended.

[andromax]

Of course this also makes it impossible to use swift action to draw the wand from the Wand Bracer and then cast a Swift/Immediate action spell from it in the same round, so you got me there :)




I feel I should point out that you can absolutely use a swift action and an immediate action in the same round. Just not during your turn.

Immediate actions are charged as the next round's swift action.

-Use your swift action
-Wait till it's not your turn anymore
-Use your immediate action


Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.

[tuesdayscoming]

I feel I should point out that you can absolutely use a swift action and an immediate action in the same round. Just not during your turn.

Immediate actions are charged as the next round's swift action.

-Use your swift action
-Wait till it's not your turn anymore
-Use your immediate action

Glad to see someone cleared up this misconception. andromax is 100% spot-on, here. A swift and an immediate action can be taken in the same round, though the immediate action will prevent you from taking a swift action on the round following.

edit: also, if I am not mistaken, you can stick a wand chamber into a gauntlet. Designed as they are for constant wear, this might get around OP's problem quite nicely.

[Gildedragon]

One could also take quick-draw to get wands out as a free action
or if one doesn't feel like spending a feat (and the DM allows it)
attach a crystal of return (least) on the wand. The reasoning being that a wand is a weapon of at-least masterwork quality. Though that trick is... dubious to say the least. I would allow it (despite my dislike for nerveskitter)

[TuggyNE]

The problem is that, even if you carry the wand or otherwise have free/no-action access, and even though activating it is an immediate action, you still run afoul of flat-footedness, and (as already mentioned) the spell language that specifically allows casting while flat-footed doesn't help when it's in a wand.

So it's not going to work unless you're immune to flat-footedness, at which point you probably don't need nerveskitter all that much anyway. :smalltongue:

[andromax]

So it's not going to work unless you're immune to flat-footedness, at which point you probably don't need nerveskitter all that much anyway. :smalltongue:
True , but it'd work with a scroll of nerveskitter.

[Darrin]

Good idea. However, I am playing a warshaper and don't use weapons. Unless Armor spikes can hold wands :smalltongue:

There's no rule that says they can't. However, many DMs would probably call shenanigans on fitting a wand chamber into such a small weapon.

You could put the wand chamber in a buckler and strap it to an arm. If you have Improved Unarmed Strike, you could also try putting a wand chamber into Dragonfang Gauntlets or Scorpion Kama (MIC).

[shaikujin]

You can also try putting the wand in a knee/elbow/sleeve/boot blade that has a wand chamber...

[Axier]

Speaking strictly cheesy, with wand chambers I could have equipped simultaneously:

2 for 2 bucklers, one on each arm.
2 for spiked gauntlets
2 for sleeve blades
2 for wrist blades
2 for knee blades
2 for boot blades
1 for meteor helm

13 wands, no problem!

[shaikujin]

Speaking strictly cheesy, with wand chambers I could have equipped simultaneously:

2 for 2 bucklers, one on each arm.
2 for spiked gauntlets
2 for sleeve blades
2 for wrist blades
2 for knee blades
2 for boot blades
1 for meteor helm

13 wands, no problem!


If the Deathwand property from the A&EG can be reversed-engineered, it's a flat 2000 GP enhancement cost. Allows 2 wands to be used the same way. This would be on top of the wand chamber.

Alternatively, give the Deathwand crossbow the morphing/sizing properties to morph it into any other weapon, like one of the blades mentioned above.

[shaikujin]

Btw, where's the meteor helm in?

[Axier]

Meteor helm, I believe is in Pathfinder, somewhere. Random blurb, still only one slot to not worry about. Although, you could also in theory dual wield daggers on top of it all.

[Vaz]

I seem to remember Hair blades as well... but that may be 3.0 and so even further removed from Pathfinder.

I'd hazard a guess at AEG, and I'm not sure that it would work with a Helmet either. Still...

[shaikujin]

I seem to remember Hair blades as well... but that may be 3.0 and so even further removed from Pathfinder.

I'd hazard a guess at AEG, and I'm not sure that it would work with a Helmet either. Still...

Are you referring to the braidblade in Dragon 120?

[shaikujin]

Meteor helm, I believe is in Pathfinder, somewhere. Random blurb, still only one slot to not worry about. Although, you could also in theory dual wield daggers on top of it all.

Ahh I see, thanks!

[Vaz]

Are you referring to the braidblade in Dragon 120?

I don't think so, I don't have Dragons that far back. I'll try and have a mooch when I'm back from work.

[Darrin]

I don't think so, I don't have Dragons that far back. I'll try and have a mooch when I'm back from work.

*Dungeon* #120.

Dragon 120 would not be 3rd Edition. Heck, I think that's still 1st Edition.

[Dusk Eclipse]

unless you are a giant or something I doubt a braidblade can hold a wand so it is a moot point I guess.

[King Atticus]

Some of these weapon examples seem a little extreme. The chamber description says weapons cannot have these modifications unless they have a solid hilt or handle that is at least 6 inches in length. Making it pretty hard to fit a chamber into most of the concealed weaponry that has been listed.

[Vaz]

*Dungeon* #120.

Dragon 120 would not be 3rd Edition. Heck, I think that's still 1st Edition.


I'm on the train now, give me a half hour an I can check. Don' t really recall Dungeon mag content. Still it might have just of latched into the subconcious

[andromax]

Some of these weapon examples seem a little extreme. The chamber description says weapons cannot have these modifications unless they have a solid hilt or handle that is at least 6 inches in length. Making it pretty hard to fit a chamber into most of the concealed weaponry that has been listed.

I agree, it'd be hard to justify most of those examples.