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ArcturusV
2013-01-14, 10:13 PM
I find myself in a situation where I am going to FINALLY get another 3.5 edition group going after a long time out of the game, and one that is going to be successful from the looks of it, avoiding all the usual causes of my attempts to find groups failing (mostly real life logistical).

So I'm excited, I'm looking for character options to do something a bit different as I want to avoid what I usually have to do in past years (Play Cleric because no one else wanted to play any source of healing at all). And I've been getting a strange idea stuck in my head.

Simply put I want to run a variation of a Paladin based on Elemental Influence rather than Lawful Good, Lawful Evil, Chaotic Good, Chaotic Evil (The only Paladin variants I could find in all my searching).

I've been out of the homebrewing, kitbashing, tinkering game for a LONG time, so I'll need help to come up with an interesting, balanced basic class to fit the image I want.

If what I want exists somewhere and I've just been too stupid to be able to find it in about the one hour I devoted to combing through books, rumors, and wikias, etc, please point me in the right direction so I can find it. (Unless it's so terribly bad that you think I should homebrew something anyway to make it palatable).


Core Concept/Vision:
I want the general mechanics/feel of a Paladin Character, someone who is raised, trained, and chosen to be a champion. It should be a martial based character with minor spell casting ability, and supernatural abilities focused on it's role as a frontline warrior and crusader of a cause, who channels Elemental Energy and Elemental themed boons rather than the powers of Good and Law.

I want to drop the alignment restriction, or possibly take a druidic style alignment restriction of some form of Neutrality. I definitely want to avoid all the silly "If someone else near you..." sort of clauses to lose Paladin Status. I always thought that was just a source of around the table drama and tension that didn't need to exist. So no "You lose your Fire Elemental Powers because your Wizard uses Earth Spells regularly" or similar effects.

I do however want a clear ethos/goal that ties the Elemental Paladin to certain concepts rather than just being a sword swinger who has some elemental powers tacked on.

And to be clear I want this to FEEL like a Paladin in how it plays and the mechanics it uses. Not like I just am a Fighter/Sorcerer with spells of a certain element.

Kind of a daunting task I suppose. I'm willing to put in the work for it but I could use some help, point out common pitfalls, things I might want to avoid, shortcuts, etc.



Progress so far:

The Elemental Paladin of Fire: Champion of Flame Level Advancement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14532579&postcount=9)
The Champion of Flame Spell List (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14549715&postcount=41)
Magic Items for the Elemental Paladins (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14550615&postcount=42)

Winds
2013-01-14, 10:41 PM
I definitely agree with losing alignment restrictions, particularly the ones where someone near you can cause you to fall. Paladin is the only aligned class (of the top of my head) that loses power they gained, but also the ones where that may not have been something they did? Ugh.


I don't do much homebrew either, so I can't help with crunch work, but I can make some flavor suggestions.


Have a player set a personality trait associated with their character's element, and make that a major part of their personality. A quick list of examples:




Paladins of flame tend to be aggressive, passionate, and quick to act. They are also, however, often reckless, and don't always think things through.

-Passion


Paladins of water are more passive and calm, often looking for more subtle ways to correct a problem. However, it can be difficult to convince them to act more directly, and if you do, they may have trouble knowing when to stop.

-Calm


Paladins of earth are more inclined to bunker down and wait out a problem. They excel at dealing with temporary problems or seasonal issues, but often fail to seek out the source of a problem when dealing with its symptoms.


-Focus


Paladins of air are flighty and impetuous, often dealing with problems they find as quickly as possible. Like earth paladins, they may fail to deal with the root of a problem, but for a paladin of air, this is because they are eager to help correct another problem.

-Eagerness



And so on.

ArcturusV
2013-01-14, 11:16 PM
As far as Ethos stuff I was going less with "compulsory" behavior like Personality Traits. I typically don't like them. I understand them. I appreciate what they mean. But as a player myself I don't typically like being handed a class or race that says "you must behave in X manner."

I prefer Ethos and Goals because it allows more flex room. Sure, if your Paladin is quested to bring Eternal Justice to the Land you probably uphold some shared ideals and personality traits 90% of the time. But that 10% variation is what makes for interesting moments, and suggests you can carry out the same goals in very different ways based on culture, background, personality, player interest, etc.

So a Paladin of the Fire Element might be about Life and Rebirth (Or Wanton Destruction I suppose on the other side of the coin), Good Elemental Paladins often having oaths like to bring Warmth to where there is none making them a naturally choice for Arctic Campaigns. I also never much cared for ideas like the culture surrounded by ice practices and worships ice deities. You'd think they'd value something they are short on, like warmth, heat, light, etc. They might see the goal of Fire as a cleansing Rebellious Force, something that destroys that which is old and decaying, sprinkling the fertilizing ashes over the world to bring forth new growth, giving Chaotic Good "Rebel" type characters a Paladin choice should they want, or an interesting counterpoint to some Druidic Orders who cling too hard to what IS and stifle what SHOULD BE in nature (The Preservation vs Adaptation and Renewal side of things).

Eh. It's just a thought.

toapat
2013-01-15, 12:07 AM
The Crystal Keep Indexes contain all the rules for the TN paladin, which is based on elements, If you have Dragon 310, thats a little more legitimate, but either way they will provide the foundation for a homebrew of an Elementaldin.

ArcturusV
2013-01-15, 12:24 AM
Did a quick search for this Crystal Keep Index. Apparently tore down by WotC? So I guess that's no dice. Thanks for the suggestion, didn't know about it but I guess I was just too slow to pick up on it.

Don't have any Dragon magazines. So that's a bust. I don't suppose you could spill some of the details or is that all licensed up and locked up tight?

LordErebus12
2013-01-15, 12:34 AM
if it can be done right, id love this.

Perhaps create it to replace features of the standard paladin, like the various archetypes that pathfinder employs.

the final bit is a personalized code of conduct for each type.

I vote for calling them "Champions of (Element Type)"

toapat
2013-01-15, 12:50 AM
Did a quick search for this Crystal Keep Index. Apparently tore down by WotC? So I guess that's no dice. Thanks for the suggestion, didn't know about it but I guess I was just too slow to pick up on it.

Don't have any Dragon magazines. So that's a bust. I don't suppose you could spill some of the details or is that all licensed up and locked up tight?

The indexes are not gone, just harder to find. they skirt the OGL enough to be questionable.

Incarnate:

BAB: Good
Good Saves: Fort
HD: D10
Armor: All
Weapons: Simple, Martial
Skill points: 2
SKill list: As Paladin, remove Heal, Know (Royalty), Handle Animal, Add Know (nature), Listen, Search, Sense Motive, survival

Class Features:

Elemental Affinity (Choose an element and its opposite, have an aura of such)
Detect Imbalance: Detect alignment subtypes
Smite Extremist: Smite vs corner alignments
Divine Grace
Elemental Burst: Ranged touch dealing 1d4+Cha once for each element, 60' range
Aura of Courage
Energy Resistance
Incarnate Spell List (just rework the paladin)
Turn outsider
Elemental Minion (Summon a Medium elemental instead of the unprocessed Soveriegn Glue)
Commune with Nature 1/week at level 8, +1 for every 4 levels afterwards.

ArcturusV
2013-01-15, 06:12 AM
Okay. Ran my 4th Edition Campaign tonight, and during some of the endless PC bickering about whether or not it was smart to use their "Get into the City Officially Papers" to get into the City in question was a smart idea I had some time to ponder a bit more about my would be Elemental Paladin.

Things I was considering:

Whether I wanted the Elemental Paladin to have a broader appeal or a narrow appeal. If I gave it something like "Smite Elementals" and they could smite any creature with an Elemental Subtype (Other than the one they are championing) that would either be VERY useful or entirely useless depending on campaign setting. Unlike Smite Evil/Good/Law/Chaos which typically can always be found in any setting. I'm still not 100% sure which way I am going to go, but I'm leaning towards a Smite Elementals that as the class levels can also gain Smite Outsider or Aberration. I'd say about I"m 60/40 split between that and just giving certain elements certain smite powers based off alignment like Air might have Smite Lawful and Earth Smite Chaotic, Fire with Smite Evil and Water with Smite Good. I don't WANT to do it that way. But I recognize that it's probably the stronger way to go.

Also the elements and what they smite that way (Least as far as Fire/Water) are that way because I'm thinking ahead to spell lists. I want to avoid the Positive/Negative Energy issue, where Positive Energy is well... just a much better option about 99% of the time for a PC. So while Fire will get what is probably the best Smite in most games (Smite Evil), Water will get the superior "Positive" spells (Healing effects, Blesses, etc) to make up for typically having a poorer Smite ability.

Again also to throw the Elemental Paladin off a Good/Evil alignment based conflict. I don't really want them to have a necessarily black/white morality conflict going in the class. I want it more like a Green/Blue morality conflict which doesn't put any one side on the moral superiority (... which just saying that sounds weird for a Paladin I admit but I think it can and will work). Thus Fire Elemental Paladins won't all be destructive pyromaniac jackasses going around burning stuff down just for the sake of burning. Nor will Water Elemental Paladins be the spirit of purification and harmony, etc.

ArcturusV
2013-01-15, 12:01 PM
Gonna take a crack a doing the first of the Elemental Champion Variants today, see how what I'm thinking to start with is a good and interesting basis once everything is locked in. Thanks to all who have weighed in, please continue to help refine this and point out my many likely errors (Or just better ideas I'm missing because of lack of books/reference materials). I will be following the Book Standard Layouts for stuff as much as possible because... why not?



Champion of Flame

There are many who know of those chosen by fate. Some hear the call of the divine, some are lured in by the misshapen promises of unholy forces. But Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos are not the only forces who sometimes seek a champion among mortals. The elemental powers, primal, ancient forces have their own call, ones that few special men and women can hear.

The Champion of Flame is someone who heard, and answered the call of the great spirits of the Elemental Plane of Fire, acting as their chosen hero on the mortal plane.

Adventures: Champions of Flame seek to embody the nature of Fire itself, Creation, Life, and Renewal through the acts of seeming Destruction and Purification. Each adventure is a chance to destroy some foul, decayed part of the world so something good and true can grow from the ashes. Champions of Flame are most driven however when brought into adventures where the power of fire is truly needed and sorely lacking, and able to strike down those who would abuse the delicate balance of Elements or twist them into some perversion.

Characteristics: Champions of Flame channel divine power from raw elemental forces from the Plane of Fire. This power gives the Champion of Flame all his/her special powers, and severing that connection to the Plane of Fire due to willfully ignoring it or a true betrayal of its cause can result in the Champion of Flame losing their divine powers. Champions of Flame can use their powers to smite their foes with cleansing flames or grant boons to protect themselves from harm.

Alignment: The Elemental Powers of Fire ask of no Alignment from those they choose, and may choose characters of any Alignment as long as they are willing to answer the call of the ancient spirits of Fire and serve their cause loyally. Betraying these causes can result in a Champion of Fire losing their powers, but it must be a gross, and personal, violation.

Religion: Most Champions of Flame do not devote themselves to a particular religion. Some will philosophically meditate on the nature of Fire and it's role in the cosmos as a close substitute for Religion, and most are at least in touch with some metaphysical beliefs on the Elements as this is how they derive their powers, but few hold any fondness or loyalty towards divine beings of any sort, or Demonic or Devilish cults, though exceptions are possible.

Background: People do not choose to be a Champion of Flame. It is a unique mix of luck, destiny, and opportunity that results in chosen mortals hearing the call from the Elemental Plane of Fire, much less having the temperament to actually answer it.

The few who do recognize, and answer the call to be a Champion of Flame typically gain their knowledge and power on a personal journey to come to a greater understanding of the elements. There are no known organizations which teach the ways of the Champion of Flame to newer initiates, nor will most Champions of Flame have a mentor who schools them in the ways of their gifts. Often becoming a Champion of Flame's journey of discovery culminates in a deeply spiritual test of endurance against the harshest conditions in the Mortal Plane to achieve a greater understanding of the Elements.

Those who take up the mantle of Champion of Flame consider themselves in an elite company. While there are almost never truly organized groups of these Champions, there is a camaraderie between most of them that comes from their shared hardships and special understandings. While it is not to the point where one Champion of Flame will not attack another Champion of Flame regardless of cause, such events are rare, and more likely to start with a handshake and well wishing for the opponent then hurled insults and snarled threats.

Races: Humans tend to be the most common Champion of Flame, due to their flexible nature and ability to throw aside their own culture to grasp at new ideas. Half-Elves as well often hear the call of the Champion of Flame. Few other races choose to answer the call of the Champion of Flame, either due to cultural bias or being unsuited to the powers of fire. Those who do become Champions of Flame are almost always unique, extraordinary people who never quite fit in with their society to start with.

Other Classes: Champions of Flame get along with most classes reasonably well, and understand the need for others to fill out the roles that their own oaths and temperaments just aren't suited towards. Those who are open to the philosophies of the Elements and their metaphysical states, or capable of enlightened views on the subject are often welcomed companions to the Champion of Flame. They do not get along well with most druids, and some clerics, due to their usually narrow minded view of the nature of Fire as nothing but an agent of evil and destruction.


Game Rule Information

Champions of Flame have the following statistics.

Abilities: Wisdom augments a Champion of Flame's supernatural abilities and spell casting. Strength and Constitution are important for prolonged frontline combat. A Wisdom score of 14 or higher is necessary for a Champion of Flame to access his/her most powerful spells, a score of at least 11 is needed to cast any spells at all.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d10

Class Skills: The Champion of Flame's class skills (and the key attributes for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (The Planes) (Int), Listen (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis).

Skill Points at First Level: (2 + Int Modifier) x 4

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int Modifier.


{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|1st|2nd|3rd|4th

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0|Elemental Affinity I, Elemental Smite 1/day|-|-|-|-

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+0|Dancing Flame, Ember's Embrace|-|-|-|-

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+1|Elemental Endurance, Flame's Wisdom|-|-|-|-

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+1|Elemental Smite 2/day|0|-|-|-

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+1|Elemental Affinity II, Fire Eyes|0|-|-|-

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+2|
+2|Purify Soul, Elemental Resistance I|1|-|-|-

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+2|Elemental Smite 3/day, Elemental Retribution|1|-|-|-

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+2|Smite Aberrations|1|0|-|-

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+3|
+3|Fire's Guidance|1|0|-|-

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+3|
+3|Elemental Smite 4/day, Elemental Affinity III|1|1|-|-

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+3|
+3|Elemental Resistance II|1|1|0|-

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+4|
+4|On Wings of Fire|1|1|1|-

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+4|
+4|Elemental Smite 5/day|1|1|1|-

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+4|
+4|Smite Outsiders|2|1|1|0

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+5|
+5|Elemental Affinity IV|2|1|1|1

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+5|
+5|Elemental Smite 6/day, Elemental Resistance III|2|2|1|1

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+5|Improved Wings of Fire|2|2|2|1

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+6|Torrent of Fire|3|2|2|1

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+6|Elemental Smite 7/day|3|3|3|2

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+6|Elemental Affinity V|3|3|3|3[/table]



Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Champions of Flame are proficient with all Simple and Martial weapons, with and with all types of armor and shields (Except Tower Shields).

Elemental Affinity: A Champion of Flame's power is derived solely from the Elemental Plane of Fire and cannot be disguised. Any ability which allows the user to detect elemental presences would detect a greater than normal amount of the Fire Element within a Champion of Flame. (note: Not that I KNOW of any spells/abilities that do that... but I'm fairly sure there's one out there so covering bases)
At 1st level a Champion of Flame may use the Sense Elements (Source: Oriental Adventures) ability (As per Shugenja) at will, with his/her Champion of Flame level determining the maximum range the ability can extend.
At 5th level a Champion of Flame has become closer to the Elemental ideals he/she holds dear, and this has effected a partial transformation upon them. A number of times per day equal to the Champion of Flame's Wisdom modifier + Constitution modifier he/she may give one of her weapon attacks the Flaming Quality (+1d6 Fire damage on a hit, fire cannot harm the wielder). This use is expended regardless if the attack hits or misses.
At 10th level a Champion of Flame may give his weapon the Flaming Quality (As per 5th level ability) at will, and use a Flaming Burst Quality on critical hits a number of times per day equal to their Wisdom Modifier + Constitution Modifier.
At 15th level a Champion of Flame's weapon becomes a symbol of his connection to the Elemental Powers. He may score critical hits on creatures normally immune to them. Attacks ignore the damage resistance of Enemies with typed Elemental or Alignment damage resistance. The Flaming Quality and Flame Burst quality of his weapons increases to 2d6 fire damage.
At 20th level a Champion of Flame has become one with the Elemental Plane of Fire and it's energies. A Champion of Flame becomes a Native Elemental Creature with the Fire template (If it wasn't already) and is no longer effected by spells and effects which target humanoids. The Champion of Flame ceases to age as normal (Will gain mental stat bonuses from years, but no longer get physical penalties), taking on an otherworldly countenance that clearly shows his/her connection to the forces of Fire. All of the Champion of Flame's elemental resistances are raised by 5. The Champion of Flame is immune to Stunning, Critical Hits, cannot be sneak attacked, no longer needs to sleep, and immunities to poisons and diseases.


Elemental Smite: Starting at first level a Champion of Flame can call upon the elemental fury of the Plane of Fire to smite hostile and disruptive elementals and creatures with an elemental type other than Fire once per day. When using Elemental Smite a Champion of Flame may add their Wisdom Modifier to the attack roll, and deals an additional 1 point of Fire damage to the target for every level of Champion of Flame he/she has. Elemental Smite has no effect no non-elementals or creatures without an elemental type unless otherwise stated.
Every third level a Paladin gains another daily use of Elemental Smite.
At 8th level the Champion of Flame may use Elemental Smite against Aberrations.
At 14th level the Champion of Flame may use Elemental Smite against Outsiders.
(note: Yes, I purposefully left it so you could smite at range theoretically.)

Dancing Flame: At 2nd level a Champion of Flame gains a bonus to their saving throws equal to their Wisdom Modifier (If any).

Ember's Embrace: Beginning at 2nd level a Champion of Flame may channel elemental fire into an enemy or object with but a touch. A Champion of Flame can create enough fire energy each day to deal an amount of damage equal to their Champion of Flame level times their Wisdom bonus. An unwilling subject may make a will saving throw (DC 10 + Champion of Flame's level + Wisdom Modifier) to take only half damage. The Champion of Flame can spend any number of damage points on any individual attack and may use Ember's Embrace as long as he/she still has unused Fire Energy remaining.
Ember Embrace will heal, instead of harm, any creature with the Fire type targeted by it.

Elemental Endurance: Beginning at 3rd Level, The Champion of Flame is immune to harmful effects from extreme hot or cold environments. The Champion of Flame, and allies within 10 feet of him/her gain a bonus on saving throws versus effects with an elemental property equal to half the Champion of Flame's Wisdom Bonus. This ability functions only while the Champion of Flame is conscious, but not if the Champion of Flame is Unconscious or Dead.

Flame's Wisdom: At 3rd level the Champion of Flame gains the ability to Speak With Fire, this is similar to the Speak With Animals spell, with the caster level counting as half the Champion of Flame level of the caster. This ability can only be used to communicate with Fires. Non-Magical Fires typically have a Friendly Attitude towards the Champion of Flame and will try their best to answer truthfully. A fire's perspective though is limited to the immediate area (typically between 5' feet for a Candle to 20' for a Bonfire) around it as long as it has been burning, and has no way to know of anything before it was burning. Magical based Fires carry the alignment of the creator of their effect and may be hostile to the Champion of Flame as appropriate.

Spellcasting: Starting at 4th level, a Champion of Flame may cast divine spells from the Champion of Flame spell list. A Champion of Flame must choose and prepare his/her spells in advance and apply any Metamagic feats to a spell at the time it is prepared.
To prepare or cast a spell a Champion of Flame must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10+ the spell level. The Difficulty Class for saving throws against a Champion of Flame's spell is 10+ the spell level + wisdom modifier.
A Champion of Flame's caster level is equal to 1/2 his/her Champion of Flame level.

Fire Eyes: Starting at 5th Level a Champion of Flame may use his/her connection to the Elemental Plane of Fire to witness events though an ember. The Champion of Flame must have line of sight to a non-magical flame or other mundanely burning fire (even if the original spark was caused by supernatural effect, as long as it's not burning BECAUSE of Magic it counts). By focusing on the flame for 1 round to the exclusion of all other activities you can see through the perspective of the fire. This gives you 360 degree vision encompassing the full area that the flame would illuminate (Though everything is in a tinted to shades of red/orange/yellow or other appropriate color) from the point of the flame's base for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution Modifier (Minimum of 1). After you start using Fire Eyes the Champion of Flame may act normally.

Purify Soul: At 6th level, a Champion of Flame can use the cleansing power of Fire to purify those he/she deems worthy of saving. A Champion of Flame may use this power to grant a target which he/she touches a saving throw versus an ongoing effect with a bonus equal to 1/2 his/her Champion of Flame level. A Champion of Flame may use this ability a number of times per day equal to their Wisdom Modifier.
(note: Not entirely certain on this one. What I WANTED out of it was something that fit the niche of removing disease in a way but was more versatile and useful in general. The idea I was going for was that this ability would be able to allow a target a roll to save vs poisons, diseases, mind altering effects, etc as appropriate without automatically fixing them. It may be too powerful. It may be too weak. I'm not really sure where it lies.)

Elemental Resistance: At 6th level, a Champion of Flame gains Fire Resistance 5, and Resistance 5 to one other Element of his choice (Air, Earth, Water) or Fire again, raising his Resistance to 10. At this level the Champion of Flame may use his Ember's Embrace to heal himself.
At 11th level, the Champion of Flame increases his Fire resistance by 5 more and can again raise resistance against another two elements by 5, one of them does not have to be the same element he/she chose at 6th level.
At 16th level, the Champion of Flame gains an additional 10 Fire resistance, and if his Fire Resistance is 25 or higher has immunity to Fire. The Champion of Flame also adds 5 to three different elemental resistances of his/her choice.

Elemental Retribution: At 7th level, a Champion of Flame may expend one of their daily uses of Elemental Smite to empower himself/herself and nearby allies to fight against the imbalances in Elemental Order. When a use of Elemental Smite is channeled this way the Champion of Flame creates an aura with 15' radius centered on themselves for a number of rounds equal to their Wisdom Modifier. The Champion of Flame and his/her allies gain a bonus to attack and damage rolls against enemies with an Elemental type equal to the Champion's Strength bonus and sources of Fire damage used by the Champion and her Allies deal an additional 25% damage.

Fire's Guidance: At 9th level, a Champion of Flame gains the ability to directly manifest a small portion of the ancient spirits of the elemental forces of Fire upon the world. A Champion of Flame may use Fire's Guidance once a day for every three Champion of Flame levels he/she has, Manifestations last for a number of rounds equal to 1 minute per Champion of Flame level. When a Champion of Flame manifests Fire's Guidance she gains one of the following benefits:

----The Champion of Flame may gain Blindsight up to a 60' radius. This ability is cannot be neutralized by deafening as it is based on enhanced mystical senses, but can be thwarted by Anti-Magic auras or dispelling magic on the Champion of Flame to purposefully remove this ability.

----The Champion of Flame may gain an aura of burning. Anytime an enemy within range 15' successfully attacks the Champion of Flame while he/she's manifesting this power takes Fire damage equal to the Champion of Flame's level.

----The Champion of Flame harmonizes his/her connection to the Elemental Plane of Fire. While manifesting this ability the Champion of Flame casts all his/her spells one step quicker than they normally would. (Full Round spells become Standard Action, etc.)

----The Champion of Flame draws directly upon the powers that grant his/her Ember's Embrace power. Use of this ability gives the Champion of Flame temporary point of damage/healing equal to his/her Wisdom Modifier x Champion of Flame level. At the end of this manifestation these temporary points, if not used, go away.

On Wings of Fire: At 12th level the Champion of Flame gets the ability to manifest wings of flame which sprout from the Champion's shoulders for a number of hours per day equal to the Champion of Flame's Constitution Modifier. These wings do not cause damage and do not burn the Champion of Flame or any nearby combustibles. These wings can be called up or dismissed as a free action at the will of the Champion of Flame, only using up their maximum duration per day when manifested. While the wings are manifested the Champion of Flame as a 60' per round flying movement rate and good maneuverability.

Improved Wings of Fire: At 17th level the Champion of Flame improves his/her On Wings of Fire ability, able to manifest it at will with no time limit.

Torrent of Fire: At 18th level, the Champion of Flame can channel his Ember's Embrace power in a violent burst. As a standard action the Champion of Flame may use any number of his Ember's Embrace fire damage points to deal that much damage to all creatures and objects within 15' of himself/herself. All effected creatures/objects take damage as if they were the sole target of an equivalent Ember's Embrace with a Reflex saving throw for half damage (DC = 10 plus the Champion of Flame Level, plus Wisdom Modifier).


Code of Conduct: A Champion of Flame is expected to be an agent of the Elemental Plane of Fire and its ancient spirits on the mortal realm. As such a Champion of Fire must follow a somewhat strict code to maintain their status as a Champion of Flame. Should this code ever be willfully broken by the Champion of Flame they cease to be able to gain levels in the Champion of Flame class and lose their class powers other than Spellcasting. The Champion of Flame may be the recipient of an Atonement Spell or complete an appropriate quest to redeem themselves in the eyes of the ancient spirits of fire and regain their status as a Champion of Flame.

The Champion of Flame's code of conduct includes not abusing the gifts of Fire for wanton Pyromania. To never willfully traffic with powers who seek to abuse elemental balances, meaning not just associate (Elemental forces don't care about mere associations, but only the ACTS of their Champions), but aid those who do. And to never willingly destroy a peaceful Elemental (Evil Elementals who seek to upset the balance are fair game as are Elementals bound to the service of mortals against their will as they no longer serve the balance, those who are not evil or are not upsetting the balance, or are otherwise just minding their own business and doing as they are supposed to, are not). Nor is a Champion of Flame allowed to willingly bind or subjugate an Elemental being for his own benefit.



Alternate Class Features:

20th Level: Instead of Elemental Affinity V you gain the ability to cast the spell Deadly Lahar as a spell like ability once per day.

toapat
2013-01-15, 12:15 PM
Paladin is known to be a horribly balanced class in 3.5, and 2 of their best feats are Serenity, which replaces every instance of Cha with Wis, while Battle Blessing is spackling over the fact that a good portion of the list is significantly hurt by the casting times.

Un-nerf divine grace

Tarsten Corvus
2013-01-15, 12:56 PM
I could see a Elemental Defense: at 6th level and every 4 levels after the element of fire imprints on the Champions Armor adding a layer of defense. Anyone who he considers an enemy trying to make an attack has a 50% chance of getting Burned. 1D6 starting at 6th Lvl and another D6there after. for a total of 4D6.


Just a thought and could adjust accordingly. Its an Awesome class would love to see it in action :smallamused:

CinuzIta
2013-01-15, 04:48 PM
Wow, I like the Elemental Paladin idea! I want to try to create these class as well, just for fun! It seems to be a nice class, maybe you'll find a nice idea in these version (or maybe not!). As you can see it starts pretty generic, leaving the player the element's choice, while you focused on a Flame Paladin. As the character obtains levels, the Paladins become stronger and more tied with his element.:)

The Abilities, Alignment, HD and Skills are like your own, but I add even Knowledge (Nature) and Skill Points 4+Int

d10
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|1st|2nd|3rd|4th

1st|+1|+2|+0|+2| Element Affinity, Sense Elements, Elemental Smite 1/day |-|-|-|-

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3| Elemental Resistance, Elemental Seer |-|-|-|-

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3| Elemental Burst 1d4 |-|-|-|-

4th|+4|+4|+1|+4| Elemental Smite 2/day, Resistance to energy 5, Turn Elementals |0|-|-|-

5th|+5|+4|+1|+4| Immunity to Sleep |0|-|-|-

6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+5| Elemental Burst 2d4, Elemental Weapon |1|-|-|-

7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+5| Elemental Smite 3/day |1|-|-|-

8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+6| Resistance to energy 10, Smite Aberrations |1|0|-|-

9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+6| Elemental Burst 3d4 |1|0|-|-

10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+7| Elemental Smite 4/day, Immunity to Poison |1|1|-|-

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+7| Elemental Burst Weapon |1|1|0|-

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+8| Elemental Burst 4d4, Resistance to energy 15 |1|1|1|-

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+8| Elemental Smite 5/day |1|1|1|-

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+9| Smite Outsiders |2|1|1|0

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+9|Elemental Burst 5d4, Immunity to Paralysis and Stun|2|1|1|1

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+10| Elemental Smite 6/day, Resistance to energy 20|2|2|1|1

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10| Elemental Movement |2|2|2|1

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|Elemental Burst 6d4|3|2|2|1

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11| Elemental Smite 7/day |3|3|3|2

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12| One with the Element, Immunity to Critical Hits|3|3|3|3[/table]

Elemental Affinity: The Elemental Paladin has a strong connection with one of the Elemental Planes that grants him some special abilities. At 1st level, the Elemental Paladin chooses one of the four elements (Air, Earth, Fire, Water) as the element to wich he has a connection; he immediatly learns the related language (Auran, Terran, Ignan or Aquan). Moreover, that will be the key element of all his abilities. For example, if he chooses Air as his favourite element, the "Energy resistance 5" ability will provide him with Electricity resistance 5.

Sense Elements: as per the Shugenja special ability.

Elemental Smite: just as you described it. :)

Elemental Resistance: a bonus on a saving throw equal to the character's Wisdom, based on the character selected elements (Air, Fire: Reflexes. Water, Earth: Fortitude.

Elemental Seer: an Elemental Paladin can use the clarvoyance spell on any element he is bonded [like wind (for air affinity), rocks or trees (for earth affinity), bonfires (for fire affinity), rivers (for water affinity)] with that is at a maximum distance of 180 ft away from him. For every 4 levels thereafter, the maximum distance is increased by 90 ft. He can clearly see the surroundings for 30 ft from the element he's using clarvoyance in.

Elemental Burst: just like the Warlock's Eldritch Blast, but with a range of 30 ft and with a damage dice of d4. The element of these attack is obviously based on the Element choosen on the first level

Turn Elementals: just like the cleric ability, but works on elementals

Immunity to Sleep, Posion, Paralysis, Stun, Critical Hits: as he became more powerful, the Elemental Paladin gets some of the elementals immunities at different levels.

Elemental Weapon: the weapon of the character deals 1 extra d6 of elemental damage, based on the character choice (Air-Electricity, Earth-Acid,Fire-...Fire, Water-Frost)

Elemental Burst Weapon: just like the weapon enchantment (+2d6 of elemental damage with a weapon on a critical hit). Again, based on the character's first level choice.

One with the Elements: the character obtain the type Elemental and the subtype based on the element he has choosen. He still can be resurrected and he gain DR 10/opposed element (Air/Earth, Fire/Water)

Spells: an Elemental Paladin casts spells choosen from the Shugenja's spell list, but he can only choose spells from his element type. [shocking grasp, invoke lightning and lightning spells moved from Fire type to Air type for coherence's sake)

I'm sorry if the description looks messed up, but I'm somewhat tired and not that focused. Also, sorry for my poor english. I hope that my work is at least comprehensible.:)

Edit- oh I forgot the Elemental Movement description..here it is: the Elemental Champion's bond with nature allow him to move aided by nature itself:
Air: gain Fly speed 18m, good maneuvrability
Earth: the character can fuse himself with the earth. He can actually dive and swim into solid earth at his normal speed
Fire: the character's speed is increased. His movement speed is doubled
Water: the character gains swim speed equal to twice his normal speed. He can also breath underwater

ArcturusV
2013-01-15, 06:17 PM
Now that I had some sleep, I will switch back divine grace to book standard Toapat.

Though lacking a ton of books I hadn't been aware of said Serenity feat. So thus the stat condensing doesn't seem as good a benefit as it was before. Not bad, I mean no "I have to take" feat tax. But adjusts where I think of the balance.

One of the reasons I went for Knowledge (The Planes) rather than Knowledge (Nature) is both for thematic reasons. I wanted the Paladin Variants, and I am planning on doing a Champion of Earth, Air, and Water as well, to have a connection to the Elemental Planes rather than to the Natural World and thus blurring thematic lines with the Druid and Ranger. Also in the back of my mind was a dim awareness of other prestige classes and such printed where Knowledge (The Planes) was a required skill for some elemental transition, so I wanted it to be possible that the Champion of Flame could somewhat easily transition into them if desired.

Though I'll probably go try to whip up a Prestige Class or two after I finish the cycle of Champions that fits them. Along with adding appropriate Champion of ____ magic item abilities, Feats, and unique spells if I'm getting really frisky.

As always, if there is something printed, and in an obvious source more so than a forgotten issue of Dragon Magazine, etc, that I seemingly should be using but have ignored... it's probably because I no longer have said book on hand/never had it on hand and would welcome anyone pointing it out.

Thinking I might want to give the level 4 Elemental Affinity Flame Strike quality more uses per day.

CinuzIta
2013-01-15, 07:07 PM
oh I hadn't thought about the Knowledge issue that way, but I suppose you're right:)
Since, as you said, you're going to create objects, feats, spells etc, why not creating even substitution levels for genasi, so that these class becomes their signature class? Like, don't know, the fire genasi Champion of Flame irradiate, at level four, a 5-foot flaming area that damage all the creatures who enter in it with some scaling fire damage..much like Tarsten Corvus suggested, but as a signature ability for a race who enter this class!

ArcturusV
2013-01-15, 07:09 PM
Mostly because I lack whatever book they came from. Forgotten Realms I think? And I've never used Signature Race/Class combos, so I'm not quite sure how to go about doing it, or even really what they are. So if you could give me a run down on the general idea I'll see how it fits.

toapat
2013-01-15, 07:15 PM
Now that I had some sleep, I will switch back divine grace to book standard Toapat.

basically everything i can tell you ive given already.

Except this (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/08/paladins-handbook.html)

Damn i need a rainbow font that shifts colors

ArcturusV
2013-01-15, 07:28 PM
Thanks. Honestly that "Divine Spirit" bit in there is something I wanted to do with this rather than have mounts or some druidic style animal companion.


Edit: I suppose one of the weird things to think about as I'm doing this is most people consider the Paladin a very weak class? But that's not my experience running it around the table. Often a problem due to their need to Alignment Bully the party in order to keep powers. But I almost never have Paladin players complaining that the Paladin class is weak and they feel like a useless party member. Typically they love it and the complaints I've had from Paladin players is more about how annoying Ethos stuff was and why they couldn't just get away with slaughtering everything that stood in their way going "JUSTICE!" at the time, etc.

I suppose this is a bit of "Your Mileage May Vary" that has just cropped up in my games.

Still adding to it slowly but surely as I get moments here and there.

toapat
2013-01-15, 09:14 PM
Thanks. Honestly that "Divine Spirit" bit in there is something I wanted to do with this rather than have mounts or some druidic style animal companion.

actually the normal Incarnate gets a medium elemental as i said.


Paladin is actually somewhat underpowered, at least from an individual parts perspective. Smiting has a number of issues, and limits the class's flexibility, Lay on Hands is actually pretty weak in a 4 encounter per day game, Divine Health and remove disease are extremely limited class features. A horse is definitely a liability as a CR2 when you get it. Their casting has problematic casting times if they were not specifically designed for paladin.

ShadowFireLance
2013-01-15, 09:20 PM
*Whistles*
http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/c8/50/c85033f665c937f477b6246cb56a4beb.jpg

ArcturusV
2013-01-16, 01:41 AM
Neat Shadow.

Yeah. I tried to make the Divine Health thing a bit more relevant in nature. The Environmental thing isn't that huge typically, any low level cleric can go spam Endure Elements on a party if they're wandering the desert or arctic wastes (although it does save a casting of it which can be important in a low level adventure). Bonus to saving throws against Elemental Damage though I see as much more useful to most games.

The only real problem I ever had with Remove Disease was just that, well... you can't do it anywhere near often enough to matter. I might drop that from the Elemental Paladins now that I think about it wholesale and put in something else.

I'm... leery... of giving a permanent Elemental to the Elemental Paladins. A mount is one thing. It often has a lot of problems, easily killed, only suitable for adventures which fit the mount's size/mode of travel, etc. Elementals less so. I mean a simple little Familiar or animal companion has a lot of versatility and power (If you use some brainpower with it, which I admit hasn't been a given for Druid/Wizard players I've run with) and I think having an elemental being that could have similar use, AND be an elemental that is a lot more combat capable than said things to start with might be a bit much.

But I'll see how it goes.

CinuzIta
2013-01-16, 03:15 AM
Mostly because I lack whatever book they came from. Forgotten Realms I think? And I've never used Signature Race/Class combos, so I'm not quite sure how to go about doing it, or even really what they are. So if you could give me a run down on the general idea I'll see how it fits.

Aye, they're from Forgotten Realms. A genasi is the descendant of a mortal and of an elemental power, like some kind of genie. There are four kind of genasi (air, earth, fire, water) and their kind also determine their energy resistance, ability modifier and one or two other things. They look like humans, but with "strange" feats (like a pale light blue skin and white hair for the air genasi and so on). Want to know something else?

ArcturusV
2013-01-16, 03:36 AM
Sounds like a natural fit for any Champion of ____ class, least on the surface.

Just how this Signature Race/Class thing is supposed to work out. Or at least some source where I can figure it out.

CinuzIta
2013-01-16, 04:24 AM
ahm maybe you misintened what I wrote! When I was suggesting to make these the genasis' signature class (not Signature), I was suggesting to create some substitution levels to grant those genasi who enter these class special powers

ArcturusV
2013-01-16, 04:33 AM
Woosh. Sorry, whole thing went over my head. Never played with anything like the sounds of it so I had no idea what you were meaning.

I'm not opposed to suggestions for it. But having never played either the race, or the rule, I wouldn't really want to take a stab at it.

Anyway, Champion of Fire now has it's full level progression. Going to work on a Champion of Fire spell list next.

CinuzIta
2013-01-16, 04:47 AM
okay, later when I'll get on the pc I'll write you down some suggestion on the genasi, if you want! Right now I'm writing with my cellphone, and it's not that comfortable for writing table, progression or anything else!

Anyway, for Champion of Flame's spell list you could consider a divination or clarvoyance spell, with the restriction that he can only scry or divinate using a flame (he has a flame, he cast clarvoyance on it, he can see what he wants to divinate)..a la Red Priest, from Chronicles of Ice and Fire by Martin! It'd be flavourful in my opinion!:)

ArcturusV
2013-01-16, 04:55 AM
I had considered things like that. Which is why the Champion of Flame has powers like Flame's Wisdom to speak with fire and Fire Eyes.

The Flame's Wisdom stuff admitted shamelessly ripped from an old 2nd edition Barbarian Shaman kit if I remember. But it was a neat idea and I really wanted an effect that separated a Champion of Flame thematically from Fighter with Fire Magic.

CinuzIta
2013-01-16, 05:35 AM
I had considered things like that. Which is why the Champion of Flame has powers like Flame's Wisdom to speak with fire and Fire Eyes.

The Flame's Wisdom stuff admitted shamelessly ripped from an old 2nd edition Barbarian Shaman kit if I remember. But it was a neat idea and I really wanted an effect that separated a Champion of Flame thematically from Fighter with Fire Magic.

Oh fine then!

Anyway, "later" came pretty soon, so here are 1-2 suggestions about a possible substitution level for the fire genasi (I'd write here their stats, so that you can have a better look at it, but I'm not sure I can do it..can I?)!

Anyway, here's an image of two Fire Genasi:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081025060605/forgottenrealms/images/thumb/0/00/Fire_genasi.jpg/295px-Fire_genasi.jpg

About the substitution levels, I don't know what could be substituted, the class seems to be very fine and complete. Maybe a Fire genasi could only access to another scaling fire power at first level, not available for the other races. Or maybe, since his natural affinity with fire, he could be impeded at receiving other kind of resistances other than the fire resistance (until he reach the immunity) from Elemental Resistance and get at its place another kind of power.

Personally, I'd like both the idea of an Elemental Burst and the Aura of Flames as first level powers...now, I see you already implemented an Aura of Flaming, and right now I can only think at the Flame Burst. Something like 1d4 at 1st level, 2d4 at 4th and then another d4 every 4 levels thereafter, for a maximum of 6d4 at 20th level...not too much, just an handy ranged attack when the gut cannot get in melee.

Anyway, I'm sure someone could have better ideas on this:)

ArcturusV
2013-01-16, 05:53 AM
Meant in that I considered them and was going to do that, because I liked the feeling of a Fire Magic not just being Pyroclasms and Meteor Swarms. It's a good idea.

Anyway, I guess the levels/powers to replace would probably be Elemental Smite for the Elemental Burst, and Aura of Flames for the Elemental Endurance.

CinuzIta
2013-01-16, 05:58 AM
You'd substitue Elemental Smite with Elemental Burst? But Elemental Burst is way less powerful than Elemental Smite in my opinion, for these reason I'd suggested that they get it at first level for free. Also, your Champion of Flames already has an Aura of Burning, under Fire's Guidance!

Edit-Maybe if you make the Elemental Burst scales better and have a better dice, than it would be a good deal.

ArcturusV
2013-01-16, 06:07 AM
Added in the Code of Conduct.

My feeling on it is that the Elemental Smite is stronger. But if the Elemental Burst was AoE and Ranged the fact that it dealt less damage is offset by flexibility and ease of use, not to mention the narrow targeting requirements on Elemental Smite (To hit Elementals, creatures with Elemental Types, Aberrations or Outsiders at higher levels) wouldn't apply either.

Least that was my assumption.

Thought you meant as Aura of Burning something that was like "All enemies within X range of the Champion at the start of his turn takes Y fire damage for Z number of rounds" sort of ability.

CinuzIta
2013-01-16, 06:22 AM
Added in the Code of Conduct.

My feeling on it is that the Elemental Smite is stronger. But if the Elemental Burst was AoE and Ranged the fact that it dealt less damage is offset by flexibility and ease of use, not to mention the narrow targeting requirements on Elemental Smite (To hit Elementals, creatures with Elemental Types, Aberrations or Outsiders at higher levels) wouldn't apply either.

Least that was my assumption.

Thought you meant as Aura of Burning something that was like "All enemies within X range of the Champion at the start of his turn takes Y fire damage for Z number of rounds" sort of ability.

Mh you're right, the Elemental Burst is more flexible, but I'd still augment the number of damge dice it deals (something like 8d4 or 6d6 at its maximum).

And yes, I meant the Aura of Burning to work that way, didn't noticed that the other aura only function when the Champion get hit. My bad!:)

Well, you got two alternative powers, now is up to you the choice of implement them or not for the fire genasi Champion. In my opinion, they'd be a good and flavourful substitution:)

About the code of cunduct: it seems to me that as it is, the Champion is restricted to some sort of good behaviour. An evil Champion, for example, couldn't use his/her powers to pursue his own goals, as evil characters usually do. For example, since he cannot abuse his powers as a pyromaniac, he generally can't do evil acts (like setting a town on fire). Was this intended? If so, you should also restrict the alignment so that the Champion cannot be evil. Or am I missing something?

Vaz
2013-01-16, 06:31 AM
Would you like help coming up with a Spell-List, outside of "just use Shugenja"? I'd be happy to do that with all of them.

I'd be interested if you made some of the other Elementals available as well; Storm, Omni, ParaElementals.

For spellcasting abilities, perhaps allow the Spellcaster to Spontaneously Swap for Summon Monster X provided it is an Elemental of their type? I like this a lot though, although I'm interested in the water one most of all; comsidering in most settings water is used as a Figurative Healer Element.

ArcturusV
2013-01-16, 06:45 AM
Quoting it so I can discus my thoughts on it's intentions. While it DOES favor towards Good it isn't barring Evil.


The Champion of Flame's code of conduct includes not abusing the gifts of Fire for wanton Pyromania.
There's nothing in this that suggests they cannot use their powers for evil or harm. It's more about maintaining balance, and not overusing their powers for no reason other than the sheer thrill of burning things down. This wouldn't preclude things like Evil Champions of Flame from using their Fire abilities to mass execute a town, as long as they have a reason beyond just the fire itself.

To never willfully traffic with powers who seek to abuse elemental balances, meaning not just associate (Elemental forces don't care about mere associations, but only the ACTS of their Champions), but aid those who do.
This is more about maintaining balance again. The Champion of Fire himself doesn't care if one of your party members is a pyromaniac wizard who gets a sexual thrill of burning things. After all, Fire has it's place as a cleansing force in the cycle of renewal. But it does preclude them from doing things like using their knowledge/powers to from helping people enslave elementals (disrupting the balance) or megalomaniac things like finding some ritual that allows someone to absorb/channel the power of an entire elemental plane.

And to never willingly destroy a peaceful Elemental (Evil Elementals who seek to upset the balance are fair game as are Elementals bound to the service of mortals against their will as they no longer serve the balance, those who are not evil or are not upsetting the balance, or are otherwise just minding their own business and doing as they are supposed to, are not). Nor is a Champion of Flame allowed to willingly bind or subjugate an Elemental being for his own benefit.
And this is about again, maintaining a balance. It's not that the elementals themselves are EVIL that allows a Champion of Flame to call them fair game, it's what Evil Elementals do, rampant pyromania, reasonless slaughter, etc. As well Elementals who are bound to service through Summoning Magics, Rituals, Pacts, etc, are effectively "not doing their job" in the balance and thus can be sacrificed. Plus I didn't want a Champion of Flame almost completely helpless because some wizard cast Summon Monster I and brought out a Fire Ferret. Similarly due to "upsetting the balance" a Champion of Flame himself won't have any summon Fire Elemental ability or be allowed to do so.

It's entirely possible a Champion of Flame could be evil. However they would be more calculated evil rather than "Just because" evil or "Madness" evil. An Evil Champion of Flame uses his gifts to further his own goals. He might be a megalomaniac out for worldly power and use the gifts of the Plane of Fire to lord dominion over his nation. He might be a murderer or a thief (in the stealing sense, not the skill sense), using his powers for petty ends or someone who cashes in on his calling as a mercenary. The Elemental Powers don't really care so long as they don't make things worse in the grand scheme of balance (And considering their powers are innately aligned to removing imbalances, it's likely that they don't need to be pushed to do so).

The Elemental Powers just lack the morality clause that other extra-planar powers have. Less concerned with Good, and Evil, and Individual drives than they are with the greater picture.

One thing I will mention? I kinda dislike the book standard 3.5 description of the Elemental Plane of Fire where everything's made of flames and constantly burning and all looks red and orange, etc. I actually drew my inspiration from the 2nd edition book standard Elemental Plane of Fire. Which was a plane that was in a constant cycle of burning and regrowing. Fire would sweep through an area, burn everything down. Hours later from the ashes new plants and vegetation would grow. Then hours after that the fire would sweep in again in an endless cycle.

I rather preferred that spirit and essence for the Elemental Plane of Fire rather than wanton burning. I felt that basing my ideals and powers in some way on that image would lead to a more interesting character.

Edit: Vaz:

I would appreciate any help with Spell Lists as my own book cache is kinda low so I don't have a huge berth to choose from. Will also be adding some homebrewed spells do to things that most "Elemental" spells won't.

I'll focus on the traditional four elements first. Then I'll consider branching out to other elements like Lightning, Ooze, etc.

CinuzIta
2013-01-16, 06:55 AM
So basicly the difference between a good Champion and an evil Champion on a mission, is their approach..? While a good Champion will try to talk with the bad guy, the evil Champion will immediatly attack him, or something like that..?

Tell me if I'm correct, I want to be sure I fully understand this thing: the Champion can do everything he wants (like become the ruler of a nation), until he starts to set everything on fire just because these would mean an unbalance on the plane? These is somewhat Legal, isn't it?

ArcturusV
2013-01-16, 07:02 AM
It does suggest a "Non-Chaotic" alignment now that I think about it.

Pretty much though. The difference between a Good Champion and an Evil Champion isn't their powers but how they behave. A Good Champion does things like destroys Ice Elemental monsters attacking the village in the polar regions. An Evil Champion can do the same, though he probably does it less for the good of the people and bringing harmony back into the world so much as he does it for the fame, fortune, Cabin Bunnies, what have you.

Mostly just if the Champion of Flame goes off his rocker once he's a ruler of a nation and goes, "BURN EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING BURNS!" But if he was like "All criminals, traitors, and rebels will be executed by burning", that's fine.

CinuzIta
2013-01-16, 07:07 AM
Okay, that's nice! Thank you for the explaination!

Vaz
2013-01-16, 07:07 AM
My Pleasure. Good to know about the other elementals, I was quite disappointed it wasn't in MM2, but in MM3, I was extremely happy.

ArcturusV
2013-01-16, 07:10 AM
Gonna start working on the Champion of Flame spell list in a little bit. So any Must Include spells you think I should have, throw them out now.

Vaz
2013-01-16, 08:10 AM
Level 1
Animate Fire - A Druid and Wu Jen learn at L2, but they're full Casters.
Blades of Fire - A Ranger gets at Level 1, but they're not Flamey Focused.
Summon Monster I - Any monster from SM1 Spell list, with the Fire Element Creature Template added on automatically.

Level 2
Blistering Radiance - Small Damage, and Dazzles, Level 4 on a full caster.
Body Blaze - Level 3 on a Full Arcane Caster.
Energy (Fire) Vortex - deal damage to area, if you take the damage yourself as well, you double it.
Hellfire - small area damage, non-fire damage.
Summon Monster 2 - Any monster from SM2 Spell list, with the Fire Element Creature Template added on automatically.

Level 3
Fireball - Fairly Obvious.
Bright Worms - Although only a 4th Level, considering your reasonably up close nature, you can deal 3d6 damage a round to all enemies within 20ft of you right off the bad.
Daltim's Fiery Tentacles - Evards, dealing Fire Damage, normally Arcane 5.
Summon Monster 3 - Any monster from SM3 Spell list, with the Fire Element Creature Template added on automatically.


Level 4
Delayed Blast Fireball - Again, obvious.
Channelled Pyroburst - Charge up to unleash area damage, Duskblade gets at L4, otherwise would have been level earlier.
Phoenix Fire - Sacrifice Life and a Character level to deal Caster Level based damage and instantly reborn, doesn't affect good characters.
Hellfire Storm - deals up to 10d8 non-Fire Damage to enemies within a 20ft radius burst.
Summon Monster 4 - Any monster from SM4 Spell list, with the Fire Element Creature Template added on automatically.

I'm unsure on this, whether making it available to a Divine Half-Caster could break an Archivist even more so, but as a "Capstone" spell - Deadly Lahar - http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-mage--58/deadly-lahar--777/ for a L4. Or perhaps as a potential 1/day (or week?) Capstone. Maybe as an ACF rather than becoming an Elemental?

That is just a quick shoot through a spell list with [Fire] Descriptor, and the Summon Monster spells are homebrew. AFB while I'm at work, but I'll have a check later when I've got my books in front tonight. I need to do get my books out as I'm starting an Archivist playthrough so kill two birds with one stone.

Amechra
2013-01-16, 11:44 AM
If you'd like to borrown some ideas, here's a link (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7188.0) to a (cached) version of my old pyromancy class, which might have some ideas for you to pillage.

ArcturusV
2013-01-18, 03:13 AM
A bit late, kept getting sidetracked and days eaten up. Spell List up (Only spells in books so far). May include custom spells if I'm feeling frisky or get good suggestions. It's an odd mix of Combat Spells, Buff Spells, Healing Spells, and Non-combat spells tied together thematically under the broad vision I've had for the Champion of Flame.



Champion of Flame Spells

Champions of Flame learn to cast a small number of divine spells as they gain in power. These spells are drawn fully from the Elemental Plane of Fire, and any effects should reflect that if they are not explicitly tagged with the Fire type, and become Fire Type spells.

(e.g.: A Magic Weapon spell cast by a Champion of Flame causes the weapon to glow with an inner fire, thus a Magic Weapon spell cast by a Champion of Flame to make his spear into a +1 weapon is a Fire spell.)


1st-Level Champion of Flame Spells

Animate Fire.
Blades of Fire.
Cure Light Wounds.
Endure Elements.
Eyes of Avoral.
Faerie Fire.
Fiery Eyes.
Heat Metal.
Lesser Restoration.
Magic Weapon.
Produce Flame.
Ray of Hope.
Read Magic.
Silent Image.
Summon Monster I (Creatures summoned with this spell have the Fire template added)
True Strike.


2nd-Level Champion of Flame Spells

Align Weapon.
Blistering Radiance.
Body Blaze.
Cure Moderate Wounds.
Energy (Fire) Vortex.
Estanna's Stew.
Fire Trap.
Glimpse of Truth.
Hellfire.
Mirror Image.
Moment of Clarity.
Owl's Wisdom.
Sadism.
Summon Monster II (Creatures summoned with this spell have the Fire template added)


3rd-Level Champion of Flame Spells

Bright Worms.
Cure Serious Wounds.
Daltim's Fiery Tentacles. (Variant of Evard's Tentacles dealing Fire damage)
Dispel Magic.
Displacement.
Explosive Runes (The runes deal Fire damage rather than Force damage).
Fire Shield.
Fireball.
Greater Magic Weapon.
Invisibility.
Major Image.
Reality Blind.
Searing Light. (Damage is Fire damage)
Summon Monster III. (Creatures summoned with this spell have the Fire template added)


4th-Level Champion of Flame Spells

Celestial Brilliance. (Channels light from the Elemental Plane of Fire, deals damage to creatures with the Cold subtype instead of undead.)
Channeled Pyroburst.
Crown of Flame. (Replace instances of "Evil" with "lacking the Fire template" Thus it damages outsiders lacking the Fire Template, or Fey lacking the Fire Template)
Cure Critical Wounds.
Delayed Blast Fireball.
Fire Seeds.
Flame Strike.
Hellfire Swarm.
Lesser Aspect of the Deity. (Takes the image of a Fire Elemental. Same Resistances gained.)
Neutralize Poison.
Perfect Summons. (Rather than good creatures it summons creatures with the Fire Template only, if the caster was trying to summon a creature with an elemental template other than Fire, that creature ignores the caster's commands and may attack the caster or his allies instead.)
Restoration.
Summon Monster IV. (Creatures summoned with this spell have the Fire template added)

ArcturusV
2013-01-18, 09:49 AM
And here I'll add the various magic items as I come up with them. Feel free to make suggestions as always. I do read and honestly consider them.



Magic Items of the Elemental Paladins

Fiery Vengeance: This weapon enchantment is the chosen weapon of a Champion of Flame. When used by a character without Champion of Flame levels this weapon operates as a +2 Flaming weapon of it's type. Fiery Vengeance weapons come in all forms and there is no "typical" weapon for a Champion of Flame's weapon to be.
In the hands of a Champion of Flame however the Fiery Vengeance is a +5 weapon. While wielding the Fiery Vengeance weapon the Champion of Flame Ember's Embrace deals two points of damage/healing for each point spent, and adds his Champion of Flame level again to his Smite Elemental Damage.

Brass Winged Armor: Brass Winged Armor is usually formed out of the metal of it's name, and if not bears ornamentation of said metal. Brass Winged Armor always however has two wings coming out of the armor near the shoulder blades, measuring a foot and a half in length, up swept from the shoulders and forged of fine brass.
This armor enchantment is meant for the Champion of Flame, and it is in his hands that this power truly takes effect. To those who do not have levels in Champion of Flame this armor functions as a +3 armor of it's appropriate type (Usually Plate, Half-Plate, or Field Plate, though it can be applied to any armor).
When worn by a Champion of Flame it functions as a +5 armor of it's type and gives the Champion of Flame an hour use of the ability On Wings of Fire. If the Champion of Flame already has this ability through class levels, the Champion of Flames gains a +20 feet increase to his fly speed while using On Wings of Fire.

CinuzIta
2013-01-18, 10:03 AM
the winged armor is very nice!

About the weapon enchantment, what is its actual bonus? How much should a character spend to get it? As a +2 enchantment or as a +5 enchantment?

ArcturusV
2013-01-18, 10:36 AM
Unfortunately I'm horrible at pricing stuff. I'd equate it to a Holy Avenger though. I think that takes what, Caster level 18th to make? Costs something like a quarter mil GP? (250,000 something...)

Or go with the old school rule of "You don't just BUY Holy Avengers..." and require that getting a Fiery Vengeance weapon requires a specific quest to obtain. You cannot craft it, cannot just buy it in some merchant's tent.

CinuzIta
2013-01-18, 11:21 AM
the second option would make sense..it could be a reward from the elemental plane for a big quest..i doubt a merchant could have a holy weapon from another dimension in his store

ArcturusV
2013-02-24, 04:38 AM
Okay... this project is NOT dead. However it's had several setbacks. I've been trying to work on a base class version of the Elemental Paladin of Water (Champion of Tides). I however have had terrible luck with it lately, constantly having hiccups like lost power wiping out my documents, having people "Clean up" my notes I had written about it, etc.

Which wouldn't be SO bad... but everytime I lose my notes I get an itch to reconsider how I was doing the Elemental Paladin of Water and what I should do with it.

The version as I have it now is definitely going to be Offensive Based, rather than "heal-o-matic" like most Water Elemental class selections I see (Like Water Shugenja). The iconic ideals I'm coming up with is right in the class name I chose "Champion of Tides". As inevitable as the tides, surging and withdrawing.

One thing I do mention is that despite calling these Elemental Paladin Variants, I also wanted each of the "Elements" to be different. Champions of Flame and Champions of Tides should be different by more than just their powers or equipment. There should be a fundamental shift in what one feels like and plays like.

As the Champions of Flames were sort of contemplative loners (back story wise), I wanted the Champions of Tides to be more of a Crusader background, but rather than a large organization more of a loose brotherhood with tight Mentor/Pupil relations.

I still want a solid set of Non-Combat powers for them, but I'm not sure what it would be. Most of my previous ideas for the Water Elemental non-combat abilities (Akin to say Fire Eyes and Wings of Fire for Fire Paladins), ended up sounding horrendously broken. And I'm not looking for broken. Not even really looking for Strictly Better than normal Paladins beyond the usual fixes I apply to them in games.

I'm going to try and get some work posted up on the Champion of Tides sometime this coming week. Unless people much rather see a different Element featured. Long term planning is to hit up Champion of Tides, Earth, Air... then start in less "classical" elements as they strike my fancy.