Krazzman
2013-01-15, 07:17 AM
Hello again playground.
Due to a few threads in the past days and the "not really challenge" challenge I got last thursday I kept thinking. My fiance took quite an interest in the Rogueclass (or better said the trap disabler role) and I am thinking for quite some time about a crusader (archetypical) build.
But first the background:
In the group we are in we separated our campaigns depending on either where to play or who can come at these days.
When we play at our place I DM a Pathfinder campaign for 4 players. When we meet at the other couple's house we play a 3.5 Faerun campaign with 5 players.
Over the course of a few months we managed to reach level 5 and... well my character is "too strong" compared to the group. I deal massive damage compared to the others. I can Trip my enemies, can have multiple attacks or ignore DR (Steel Wind, Mountain Hammer and PA-ing with a spiked chain).
We have a Druid with a love for blasting spells (flame sphere, produce flame, call lightning) or attackign with her +1 Shock shortspear. A Bardlock (that is rather dull in playing till it should hit it's breaking point) a more skillmonkeyish Rogue/Ranger with TWF. And an Old Favoured Soul with a water flavour and not that good spell selection as it seems (he rarely uses them too).
The Favoured Soul player invited us to play at his place and maybe even dming an own campaign. The thing is... he found that the current char I'm playing was too strong already. It's ok for me, it's his taste. Although he said that he never saw a good rogue or a good bard. Now I keep thinking does he mean archetypical or the class, in a pure class kind of build?
As I can only ask him in 2 weeks I have quite some time to prepare. I already opened another thread a few days ago about this topic. Archetypical to play a rogue is quite easy, a pure class build... not so much.
The "rules":
Attribute generating method unknown.
Available books Unknown (Core + Completes fairly sure, ToB and MoI in possession, Races of Stone/Wild/Destiny/Faerun unsure)
No flaws
Sidenote: Fumbles possible
probably low wealth
probably a more storydriven campaign with more roleplay encounters
The concepts we have so far:
My fiance: The Trapsmith:
Somehow she found an interest in Rogues, which I find cool. The thing is: she doesn't like to use ToB-classes as dips because of flavour reasoning. A Swashbuckler dip for her would be ok but basically a more dips than rogue would not as she thinks this beats the purpose of playing a certain class (not archetypical role). She want's to utilize traps/disable them awesomely and be a backstabbing pain in the you know what i mean. Hiding/Sneaking ambushing enemies and so on. She doesn't want to be a bad fighter and so on.
The Trapsmith Prestige Class from Dungeonscape seems to fit this rather well and as such we'll probably buy this book pretty soon (or at l east have it as pdf). Another thing is she hates Halflings but wouldn't mind a whisper gnome because they are the more barbaric little brothers and sisters of the dwarves (a race she likes).
So far we got this:
Rogue 1/Swashbuckler1/Rogue+1/Swashbuckler+2/Rogue+1/Trapsmith5
As a Human or Changeling (which we would try to get approved along with the racial substitution) she would take able learner and skip the last rogue level. As whisper Gnome (which is atm the one we will probably use) we are unsure for the 1st level feat. 3rd level and 6th level could be Martial Spirit and Study to get Island of Blades and a Shadowhand Strike to take Shadow Blade at level 9.
This would net her:
A good way to get Sneak attack in. (Flanking thorugh island of blades).
The ability to plant traps.
Defenses against traps.
Int and Dex to damage.
A few Spells through Int.
Her damage at level 9 with a simple dagger would be 1d4(or 1d3) + 2d6 + str-mod + dex-mod + int-mod. Not the best she could do but certainly sufficient in this campaign and considering she likes the skills more.
Another way would be ignoring Shadow blade for craven and get Daring Outlaw but advance Rogue instead of Swashbuckler.
Probably trying to get TWF at first level, don't know if this is possible. (AFB right now).
If someone else wants to play this sort of char she probably goes for a Druid.
For me: The Bard/Crusader:
My greatest problem is... I can't decide:smallannoyed:. I was thinking about a Paladin-ish/Crusader-ish type of character for quite some time now...(about 4 years :smallamused:). But never came to really flesh him out. Now with the ToB I thought finally I can do it. But on the other hand... there is this "unspoken challenge".
So now I think I should try to be a Bard to show him that Bards can be awesome too. But sadly for most of the tricks we either don't have the books available.
A simple Bard4/Crusader(Or Warblade)1/Warchanter might be possible but feels a bit... unoriginal. Bard/Virtuoso/SublimeChord might be awesome for casting but won't make me a supportive melee. Bard4/Paladin[of freedom it has to be due to Bard]/Warchanter might be in the same vein but seems to be pushing it due to the archetype I have to take to make it work...and I would like to use Song of the White Raven.
Now if you have read any of my threads before you know that I am not that good an optimizer myself. I just know the tricks I read in handbooks/guides published by other users and I'm quite unfamiliar with casting (with prepared casting as a hindrace for me).
For my GF this should only be a refining, please tell me if there is something wrong with it or you have an idea how to make it better, feats that compliment handling traps and such stuff.
For me I need a more general look into it as the last bard I played died horribly due to his gimpiness. And... well I never really looked into them. After a bit of reading I'm just not sure anymore if I should go this route or just start buffing/supporting.
Your help in this matter will be appreciated and I hope to not have wasted your time.
Due to a few threads in the past days and the "not really challenge" challenge I got last thursday I kept thinking. My fiance took quite an interest in the Rogueclass (or better said the trap disabler role) and I am thinking for quite some time about a crusader (archetypical) build.
But first the background:
In the group we are in we separated our campaigns depending on either where to play or who can come at these days.
When we play at our place I DM a Pathfinder campaign for 4 players. When we meet at the other couple's house we play a 3.5 Faerun campaign with 5 players.
Over the course of a few months we managed to reach level 5 and... well my character is "too strong" compared to the group. I deal massive damage compared to the others. I can Trip my enemies, can have multiple attacks or ignore DR (Steel Wind, Mountain Hammer and PA-ing with a spiked chain).
We have a Druid with a love for blasting spells (flame sphere, produce flame, call lightning) or attackign with her +1 Shock shortspear. A Bardlock (that is rather dull in playing till it should hit it's breaking point) a more skillmonkeyish Rogue/Ranger with TWF. And an Old Favoured Soul with a water flavour and not that good spell selection as it seems (he rarely uses them too).
The Favoured Soul player invited us to play at his place and maybe even dming an own campaign. The thing is... he found that the current char I'm playing was too strong already. It's ok for me, it's his taste. Although he said that he never saw a good rogue or a good bard. Now I keep thinking does he mean archetypical or the class, in a pure class kind of build?
As I can only ask him in 2 weeks I have quite some time to prepare. I already opened another thread a few days ago about this topic. Archetypical to play a rogue is quite easy, a pure class build... not so much.
The "rules":
Attribute generating method unknown.
Available books Unknown (Core + Completes fairly sure, ToB and MoI in possession, Races of Stone/Wild/Destiny/Faerun unsure)
No flaws
Sidenote: Fumbles possible
probably low wealth
probably a more storydriven campaign with more roleplay encounters
The concepts we have so far:
My fiance: The Trapsmith:
Somehow she found an interest in Rogues, which I find cool. The thing is: she doesn't like to use ToB-classes as dips because of flavour reasoning. A Swashbuckler dip for her would be ok but basically a more dips than rogue would not as she thinks this beats the purpose of playing a certain class (not archetypical role). She want's to utilize traps/disable them awesomely and be a backstabbing pain in the you know what i mean. Hiding/Sneaking ambushing enemies and so on. She doesn't want to be a bad fighter and so on.
The Trapsmith Prestige Class from Dungeonscape seems to fit this rather well and as such we'll probably buy this book pretty soon (or at l east have it as pdf). Another thing is she hates Halflings but wouldn't mind a whisper gnome because they are the more barbaric little brothers and sisters of the dwarves (a race she likes).
So far we got this:
Rogue 1/Swashbuckler1/Rogue+1/Swashbuckler+2/Rogue+1/Trapsmith5
As a Human or Changeling (which we would try to get approved along with the racial substitution) she would take able learner and skip the last rogue level. As whisper Gnome (which is atm the one we will probably use) we are unsure for the 1st level feat. 3rd level and 6th level could be Martial Spirit and Study to get Island of Blades and a Shadowhand Strike to take Shadow Blade at level 9.
This would net her:
A good way to get Sneak attack in. (Flanking thorugh island of blades).
The ability to plant traps.
Defenses against traps.
Int and Dex to damage.
A few Spells through Int.
Her damage at level 9 with a simple dagger would be 1d4(or 1d3) + 2d6 + str-mod + dex-mod + int-mod. Not the best she could do but certainly sufficient in this campaign and considering she likes the skills more.
Another way would be ignoring Shadow blade for craven and get Daring Outlaw but advance Rogue instead of Swashbuckler.
Probably trying to get TWF at first level, don't know if this is possible. (AFB right now).
If someone else wants to play this sort of char she probably goes for a Druid.
For me: The Bard/Crusader:
My greatest problem is... I can't decide:smallannoyed:. I was thinking about a Paladin-ish/Crusader-ish type of character for quite some time now...(about 4 years :smallamused:). But never came to really flesh him out. Now with the ToB I thought finally I can do it. But on the other hand... there is this "unspoken challenge".
So now I think I should try to be a Bard to show him that Bards can be awesome too. But sadly for most of the tricks we either don't have the books available.
A simple Bard4/Crusader(Or Warblade)1/Warchanter might be possible but feels a bit... unoriginal. Bard/Virtuoso/SublimeChord might be awesome for casting but won't make me a supportive melee. Bard4/Paladin[of freedom it has to be due to Bard]/Warchanter might be in the same vein but seems to be pushing it due to the archetype I have to take to make it work...and I would like to use Song of the White Raven.
Now if you have read any of my threads before you know that I am not that good an optimizer myself. I just know the tricks I read in handbooks/guides published by other users and I'm quite unfamiliar with casting (with prepared casting as a hindrace for me).
For my GF this should only be a refining, please tell me if there is something wrong with it or you have an idea how to make it better, feats that compliment handling traps and such stuff.
For me I need a more general look into it as the last bard I played died horribly due to his gimpiness. And... well I never really looked into them. After a bit of reading I'm just not sure anymore if I should go this route or just start buffing/supporting.
Your help in this matter will be appreciated and I hope to not have wasted your time.