Archer/Ranger on a flying mount?

[mahgnillig]

Hi all :) I'm new here, so forgive me if this has been asked before recently. I did search on Google but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for.

I'm trying to build an elven ranger-based archer who will ride a flying mount, and I'm a bit stuck as to what feats/prestige classes would be best to take. This character's purpose will be ranged damage and aerial reconnaissance. I had been looking at KSB Snow Owl's archer thread for inspiration, but the link I have no longer works :smallfrown:

The character is currently a lvl 5 elf ranger with the archery combat style, plus Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot feats. The mount is sorted - it will be the ranger's animal companion... currently a fledgling, but will grow into something approximating a dire eagle (DM made it, so it's not any of the standard creatures).

I was considering having Mounted Combat as the lvl 6 feat, but from then on I'm at a loss. I looked into Order of the Bow Initiate as a prestige class, but the extra damage has to be from within 30' and doesn't stack with either Manyshot or Rapid Shot. I also looked at multiclassing with Scout levels, but it looks like you can't skirmish on a mount, so that would be a waste. I'm pretty open to suggestions on this, if anyone has any bright ideas...

Thanks! :smallsmile:

[gallagher]

Wait, you cant skirmish on a mount? You still move 10 feet...

Anyway, if you can get extra damage dice, ask your DM about taking the Crossbow Sniper feat. While flying, you wont be as vulnerable to attack while reloading, and you will have a range of 60 instead of 30 for bonus damage. That, and you can add half your dex, so more damage!

['Able' Xanthis]

I understand why they did that, cause with two feats you could viably rip three foot wide craters out of the ground with a long-bow, non-magical. I used find it funny to just dip a level in druid just to get an animal companion and laugh as my halfling scout became a menace with a long-bow with the argument that the Companion wasn't a mount I just happened to be riding it.

That was silliness of my younger day's though.

[Urpriest]

As an elf you unfortunately can't take Halfling Outrider, but you might enjoy Wild Plains Outrider (Complete Adventurer). At the very least it's faster animal companion progression (Beastmaster has similar virtues).

If you can grab enough maneuvers, Eternal Blade (Tome of Battle) can be a good way to spend the last ten levels of an archery build, and since you're already an elf you've got that part covered.

[Phelix-Mu]

Skylord from Book of Exalted Deeds is for a flying animal companion. Not sure how well its abilities dovetail with archery, which can be pretty feat intensive. I think the companion gains special abilities, though, so it might be worth looking into for a dip along the way.

[JaronK]

A dip into Targeteer variant Fighter along with a few other tricks can give you a huge multiplier on dex to damage (2.5X I think) which can really help. Since you're not sneak attack based, a gnomish crossbow sight can help too, which reduces range increments by 2. That should keep your damage up. Then just unload on your targets.

A cheesy option is to combine a Splitting Aptitude Great Crossbow with Handcrossbow Focus, which lets you reload it as a free action and fire two bolts per attack. With crit range increasers (such as Improved Critical) you can easily crit constantly. Then throw in a Warblade level for Blood in the Water (you might as well get one of the Diamond Mind save as concentration check moves too) and you can get some serious damage going.

JaronK

['Able' Xanthis]

Some Cheese, Glyph Seal of Sniper Shot attached to the quiver makes it a free action to tap whilst reloading as a free action. Making it able to be effected by Precision attacks no matter the range, don't have the book in front of me right now. With the above build you could really rip it up... going to look up Sniper's Shot right now, give me a second.

[DEMON]

The problem with dipping on your build is you get even more hits to your already gimped Animal Companion progression (unless, of course you go Wild Plains Outrider or some such).

If your DM takes the errata on Scout into account (no mounted Skirmish), I'd suggest taking 4 levels of Fighter (the below suggested Targeteer variant is nice, and so is the Hit-and-Run tactics variant from DotU and the sourcebook is a bit more common). 4 levels will give you access to Weapon Specialization and Ranged Weapon Mastery and you can ACF your 2nd level feat for Resolute and get bonus to Will saves when needed.

The pro with this build is that except for the situational DEX to damage (from Hit-and-Run tactics) your attacks are not limited in range (neither Favored Enemy, Weapon Specialization, nor Ranged Weapon Mastery is a Precision Damage) so you can keep a safe distance.

If you'd really prefer to have some precision damage, Fighter 2/Justice of WaW 3 qualifies you for WS and RWM just as well and offers you a single dice of Sneak Attack (along with some other things including spells, but you already have most of them from Ranger levels). Craven, of course, is a must have if you have Sneak Attack.

[JaronK]

Some Cheese, Glyph Seal of Sniper Shot attached to the quiver makes it a free action to tap whilst reloading as a free action. Making it able to be effected by Precision attacks no matter the range, don't have the book in front of me right now. With the above build you could really rip it up... going to look up Sniper's Shot right now, give me a second.

Glyph Seals are one use, then you have to reload a spell into them. Not very useful really unless you've got lots of spells to burn and lots of money for multiple seals. It's Magic Item Compendium, by the way.

JaronK

['Able' Xanthis]

Glyph Seals are one use, then you have to reload a spell into them. Not very useful really unless you've got lots of spells to burn and lots of money for multiple seals. It's Magic Item Compendium, by the way.

JaronK

Yeah, but I said some cheese not all the swiss.

Sniper Shot only works on Sneak Attack damage. OP could always just Ring of Feather Fall for so many feet and get skirmish that way while getting his mount to drop him and then catch him.

[Diovid]

If Halfling Outrider is off the table (even though it's abilities don't scream Halfling to me) you could always go with Ranger 6 / Beastmaster 1 / Wild Plains Outrider 3 / Animal Lord (birdlord) 10 to get a good Animal Companion. Though that wouldn't really do much for your archery.

[Joshinthemosh]

I don't know if Pathfinder materials are on the table but myself and my DM are pretty blasted sure RAW this gives you exactly what you want.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/falconer

Choose a Roc(it's legal as per the rules). At level one it's a Medium creature, at level 7 it's Large. If you are say a Halfling you are a mounted flying archer at level 1. A Medium creature needs a Large mount so level 7 for the elf.

[Gwendol]

You might want to look at the Moonsea Sky sentinel PrC for some inspiration.

[Talderas]

Wait, you cant skirmish on a mount? You still move 10 feet...

It was errata'd. One I don't personally agree with.

--

Halfling Outrider doesn't provide anything particularly noteworthy for a mounted archer. The one archer trick, stand on mount, is only marginally better than than the feat Improved Mounted Archery (no penalty to attack when mount is running rather than a -2). All the other abilities are so heavily slanted towards a charger build it's not funny. Full Mounted Attack at 8th level is entirely useless to a mounted archer, they can always make a full attack regardless of how the mount moves already.

Wild Cohort is a feat you should look at. If gives you an animal companion that is independent of class level and instead based on character level. If you can get a flying mount through animal companion then you're golden. This let's you focus your class choices on classes that improve your archery rather than limiting your to classes that improved archery and your mount.

[GrumblyBear]

Choose a Roc(it's legal as per the rules). At level one it's a Medium creature, at level 7 it's Large.

Out of curiosity, how would the stats be adjusted for a level one Roc?

[Urpriest]

Out of curiosity, how would the stats be adjusted for a level one Roc?

It's not a Roc as in the monster. PF animal companions use completely different stats from the monsters they resemble.

Wild Cohort won't help, as the character already has an animal companion and they won't stack.

Halfling Outrider's benefits for mounted archery are pretty limited, it's true. OP, how is your Charisma? Elven Paladins have an ACF that lets them smite with ranged weapons.

[nedz]

You mentioned OBI. I don't think you were thinking of taking this, but for the record Don't. It's terrible: Bad pre-req feats which aren't useful to the class, poor class features which are weaker than options you would have got through other means, low skill points and a poor skill choice. The DPS is low too.

You are much better off using Rapid Shot and firing arrows like a machine gun. You just need to get damage buffs on them.

[Joshinthemosh]

Out of curiosity, how would the stats be adjusted for a level one Roc?

From the Pathfinder SRD

"Starting Statistics: Size Medium; AC +5 natural armor; Speed 20 ft., fly 80 ft.; Attack 2 talons (1d4), bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str 12, Dex 19, Con 9, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 11; Special Qualities low-light vision.

7th-Level Advancement: Size Large; AC +3 natural armor; Attack 2 talons (1d6 plus grab), bite (1d8); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4.

Rocs taken as animal companions by druids or rangers are typically newly hatched birds—a baby roc is the size of a person and ready for flight and hunting within minutes of hatching. Unfortunately for druids seeking animal companions of legendary size, an animal companion roc is limited to Large size—still large enough for a Medium druid or ranger to use the flying beast as a mount."


It's not a Roc as in the monster. PF animal companions use completely different stats from the monsters they resemble.

Very true. My dreams of riding a Gargantuan Roc still can't happen(.....yet)

[mahgnillig]

Thanks for all the excellent suggestions everyone :)

Multiclassing with some levels of Targeteer Fighter certainly looks interesting... is it worth the experience hit for multiclassing an elf with fighter to do that? (and hopefully my DM would be okay with me using material from Dragon Magazine)

For the person asking about charisma... it's pretty bad. I took at hit on Cha and Int (both are 10) in order to keep the others up. I'm currently at 19 Dex at lvl 5, so I'm thinking adding dex to damage instead of str as the Targeteer allows sounds really appealing right now.

I'm not looking to do anything hinky like jumping off the bird in order to skirmish... though I do have a ring of feather fall! That just seems a little cheesy to me. I'm not trying to totally min/max the character, just to see where I can get advantages to archery damage while still maintaining an animal companion / mount that won't die easily.

I like the idea of the Skylord prestige class (and some of the others too) but it seems that it comes with the mount... which is something I already have.