PDA

View Full Version : infoLife--Let's Build a Sci-fi Setting!



Amaril
2013-01-15, 08:36 PM
Here we go with another community world-build from the first among many creators of Suspended Dominion! Now, I know it's only been a few minutes since I announced to the old crowd that I'd be starting a new build, but I'm bored and have nothing else to do, so I'm starting it now.

I'm going a different direction this time and creating a sci-fi setting. However, there's a lot of variation possible under that big umbrella, so this should be just as interesting as the Dominion turned out to be.

Posting rules are the same as before--one idea per post, minimum of three posts between each of yours. I won't bother with a compilation initially, but if this gets to the point where one is necessary, I'll make sure to put something up.

So, with that, let's get started!

1: In the world of the future, the biggest industry in existence is the design and programming of artificial intelligence. AI technology has advanced to the point where truly self-aware machines are a real possibility, but such entities are by no means everyday occurrences. However, more pedestrian AIs can be found anywhere, and have become an essential element of daily life.

Sodalite
2013-01-15, 08:55 PM
So we are going for a sci-fi setting, then? Alrighty.

2: Truly aware AIs have, so far, been based on combinations of rigorously self-modifying code, comprehensive and high-speed web-crawler-based information gathering, and goal-finding programs which allow the AI to dynamically change the direction of the former based on what latter gathers.

Hopefully not too technical.

Amaril
2013-01-15, 09:02 PM
Actually, with the kind of feel I'm imagining for this world (even at this very early stage), the more technical the better. Please, everybody, if you have any ideas for explaining the science behind the stuff you contribute (or just want to make up a fake explanation with a bunch of misplaced jargon, if you're not a science person), definitely do so. It'll help immensely with the level of detail.

Grinner
2013-01-15, 09:14 PM
AI design is bigger than electricity or agriculture? Wow. Okay. Let's see what can be done with that.

3. The vast majority Earth's population now exists digitally, the physical realm having been devastated by a combination of overpopulation and ecological destruction. Now, as infolife, people require only electricity and enjoy an altogether higher standard of living.

Amaril
2013-01-15, 09:19 PM
Whoa, hadn't thought of that...but that idea is immensely cool, so let's run with it.

Landis963
2013-01-16, 12:13 AM
4. As such, society has stratified into two separate layers: the electronic elite that design everything the city world wants and needs, and the dwindling physical underclass that runs the machines that generate and direct the power.

Can't wait to see what stuff we come up with this time.

Jade_Lance
2013-01-16, 12:44 AM
5. Religion is the opiate of the masses, and a clandestine group of the desperate masses have formed a cult. This cult's goal is the creation of their own god by creating a new breakthrough kind of AI.

Sodalite
2013-01-16, 01:27 AM
6. Remarkably, there are very few dissidents among the fleshed 'underclass.' This is because there is a common and not entirely incorrect belief that they essentially hold the virtual world in their hands, should what it gives them cease to satisfy, they would simply leave it to run out of power. While such a rebellion would have an extreme impact on the infosphere, it's possible that some network nodes would survive long enough to find and reactivate any maintenance robots that had survived storage.

Deploy
2013-01-16, 03:08 AM
7. Some of the elite in a bid for power developed a virus to eliminate competitors, this virus was modeled after cutting-edge AI. It eventually became self-replicating and free-willed. It's still only a rumor within the info sphere, but tales of individual's identities "glitching" are traded in hushed voices.

Mr.Silver
2013-01-16, 05:32 AM
8. Amongst the digital population identity can pose something of a problem. As no one has any true physical characteristics, identifying exactly which person a given presence is (or indeed if they are a person rather than an A.I.) could prove difficult. To prevent this, all digital humans are issued with a unique identification code which allows them to be clearly identified and recognised by other digital intelligences. This digital fingerprint is officially called a 'Non-Physical Bio-Electronic Identification Sequence' (NPBEIDS), although in practice it is referred to as a 'Print'. Tampering with or falsifying a Print is, of course, illegal.

Grinner
2013-01-16, 09:49 AM
9. It is rumored that certain organizations employ certain individuals known as "fixers", who have access to android bodies. All that the general populace really knows is that when there's a problem outside of the Networks, it always gets fixed.

Landis963
2013-01-16, 09:51 AM
10. Naturally, there is a foolproof process for falsifying Prints, although the details are such that AI-made false Prints are more recognizable as false than uploaded or physical human-made Prints. Something to do with the fact that AIs always have perfect timing.

zzuxon
2013-01-16, 11:49 AM
11.
About 4% of the population are callled manipulators. They have the ability to make slight alterations to the program, which manifests as Telekinetic abilty. Most of these people are very weak, perhaps able to move 10 - 20 pounds. However, apporximately 3% of manipulators are very powerful.

Sodalite
2013-01-16, 12:10 PM
12: Manipulators exist do to a short period of time when the protections over the base coding of the infosphere were removed, specifically because during that time an amateur hacker tried to add a backdoor to the physics engine in order to allow them select what parts of the engine apply at will, but only got through a small portion of the code related to collision detection, which in turn allowed individuals whose prints contain a specific sequence of digits to force an object to collide with a non-existant surface.

Grinner
2013-01-16, 12:30 PM
13: Hacking, as it is commonly called, is considered a capital crime, punishable by termination in some cases. Terminated prisoners are usually permanently archived by the Ministry of Justice, but especially dangerous convicts are sometimes deleted outright.

Mr.Silver
2013-01-16, 12:41 PM
14. From the perspective of those humans inside it, the infosphere consists of a vast network of 'bubbles' within the general streams of raw data*. These regions -dubbed "Spatials" - are dedicated to simulated spaces of varying 'sizes' and functions, ranging from isolated development studios to virtual cities, within which most Digitals spend the majority of their time/lives. Nearly all spatials are built from the infosphere's physics engine and are therefore programmed to simulate earth-like physical conditions, although a few of the more specialised ones can tweak these to some extent.



*Obviously it isn't literally like this because the infosphere isn't a physical thing and actual spatial dimensions don't really mean anything beyond what it's programmed to simulate but most humans find it easier to think of it in these terms, which is partly why it was created in the first place.

Othniel Edden
2013-01-16, 03:55 PM
15.Common animals are those that prosper on human ecology, such as rats and other pets or pets, and many of those have evolved to fill the missing niches left vacant by extinctions and endangerments. Uncommon and rare animals are found primarily in zoos and digitally, while those that are extinct only exist in zoos.

zzuxon
2013-01-16, 09:30 PM
16.
Procreation occurs in the infosphere by machine, gametes are extracted from the bodies of the parents, and fertilized artificially. After birth, the baby is wired in and assigned a print. The babies infosphere appearance changes as the babies body changes.

Sodalite
2013-01-16, 09:40 PM
17: Though the option is available, few parents take up the offer to manipulate the genetics of their children, excluding the removal of genes which increase the likelihood of debilitating mental illness. The number of parents who do take the offer is increasing every generation though, and currently the first generation with a significant portion of 'selected' children has just been born.

LOTRfan
2013-01-16, 09:44 PM
18. The infosphere is actually the creation of an extraterrestrial intelligence. These creations are completely unknown to all but the most influential of this digital society, and they are gaining something from keeping the humans in this passive state. What exactly that is isn't quite known.

These aliens are non-humanoid (in fact, they are absolutely horrific in physical appearance), though in the digital world they appear as normal humans.

Grinner
2013-01-16, 09:47 PM
16.
Procreation occurs in the infosphere by machine, gametes are extracted from the bodies of the parents, and fertilized artificially. After birth, the baby is wired in and assigned a print. The babies infosphere appearance changes as the babies body changes.

How is everyone envisioning the Infosphere? I was thinking that the Infosphere-dwellers had rid themselves of bodies entirely, so biological birth wouldn't be possible...

Sodalite
2013-01-16, 09:51 PM
Hm...that is a good point. And the point of the infosphere was to make it so that people's only resource requirement was electricity...

Maybe we should scratch the bio-reproduction thing?

Grinner
2013-01-16, 09:58 PM
How about recombining digitized DNA and running it through a growth simulation?

That would satisfy the reproductive desires of the Infosphere-dwellers and bypass the problem of food for their inanimate bodies. It would also add a bit of tension to the setting, since mankind can't reproduce indefinitely on the limited hardware of the Infosphere. They live forever, after all.

Amaril
2013-01-16, 10:01 PM
Grinner's idea makes sense. I think we should go with that.

Sorry I haven't really had any ideas of my own...I'm just still struggling to grasp the alien-ness of this world, to the extent that I find myself unable to contribute (which is not at all a bad reflection on your ideas, as far as I'm concerned).

Grinner
2013-01-16, 10:07 PM
Sorry I haven't really had any ideas of my own...I'm just still struggling to grasp the alien-ness of this world, to the extent that I find myself unable to contribute (which is not at all a bad reflection on your ideas, as far as I'm concerned).

Have you read Eclipse Phase (http://robboyle.wordpress.com/eclipse-phase-pdfs/)? The idea came from there.

Amaril
2013-01-16, 10:47 PM
Interesting...I'll definitely take a look at that. Thanks for the link.

Landis963
2013-01-16, 11:28 PM
19. There is a train of thought, little more than a rumor among uploaded social analysts and physical conspiracy theorists, that the creation of the Infosphere is an insidious plot to place the human race under control. They cite the inherent fragility of the wonders the Infosphere produces on a daily basis, and the vulnerability every uploaded person shares; namely that there is no waking body to return to should their home servers be destroyed. It has not escaped their notice that every single non-menial worker spends the entirety of their life online, and most menial workers spend the grand majority of their off-hours online as well. Who their controllers are, or why such controllers would seek to ossify society in such a way, they can only guess. (They're right)

EDIT:

How is everyone envisioning the Infosphere? I was thinking that the Infosphere-dwellers had rid themselves of bodies entirely, so biological birth wouldn't be possible...

I was assuming it was like Ready Player One (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/ReadyPlayerOne)'s OASIS; Enough data to render every system in the galaxy, with some systems modeled after, say, Tamriel, or Azeroth, or Coruscant, or the Firefly 'Verse, with others built for specific purposes such as "the school planet" or "the government planet" or "the Dreamworks planet"

Grinner
2013-01-16, 11:47 PM
20: Because individuals terminated and archived by the Ministry of Justice often have valuable information and skills, a demand for infiltrators has developed. These infiltrators, called Necromancers, combine meticulous study of the Ministry's security systems and a thorough knowledge of government encryption algorithms to figuratively raise the dead.

It's rumored that a few highly-skilled Necromancers can even recover deleted persons (or fragments thereof).

Sodalite
2013-01-17, 12:18 AM
21: There is a sub-culture within the infosphere who refer to themselves as togatherers. With the togatherer culture is based around the use of powershare, or renting out your native computing power to the center of the group, to use as the group agreed. While this alone leads to them being somewhat unaccepted by common infosphere culture, the rumors of the togatherer group One-O being centered on a true intelligence lead only to more bad publicity, despite the remarkable feats of brainstorming and computation that powershare allows.

cha0s4a11
2013-01-17, 12:57 AM
22: The subjective amount of time experienced for the vast majority of those stored digitally is roughly, on average, equivalent to the time passed in the outside world (i.e. "realtime"). In practice, the rate of subjective time for those stored digitally varies from realtime based on the amount of available server processing power and the number of people on a given server, generally varying between .75x-1.25x realtime. In the event of emergency server shutdowns this ratio can obviously fall to effectively 0x realtime (no time passing for those in the server) until the server is operational, and there have been known cases of people (though the use of extensive server hacking at the expense of others on the server or expensive private servers) running at rates up to 100x realtime (i.e. 1 year outside = 100 years in such a server).

Mr.Silver
2013-01-17, 05:47 AM
23. The standard mode of existence for digital humans is through Avatars; simulated bodies through which the environment of the spatials is experienced as sense-data (which is far easier for the human mind to process). Most Avatars are rendered as human in appearance, although more unusual appearance modifications do exist. While each avatar is customisible, it must carry some unique mark or feature, as dictated by the individual's Print, in order to identify the individual using it. This tag does not have to be immediately visible, but as long as the individual has a print it must be present.



Yeah, I'm in agreement about dropping the biological angle on digital reproduction. Also, while we're on the subject of dropping idea, could we drop the alien one too? :smalltongue:

Landis963
2013-01-17, 11:03 AM
Yeah, I'm in agreement about dropping the biological angle on digital reproduction. Also, while we're on the subject of dropping idea, could we drop the alien one too? :smalltongue:

Well, the alien idea adds an easy villain to the setting, whereas the biological reproduction one adds nothing but plotholes. Besides, most lotus-eater-machine settings have them be created by humans; this way's more original.

Mr.Silver
2013-01-17, 12:05 PM
Well, the alien idea adds an easy villain to the setting, whereas the biological reproduction one adds nothing but plotholes. Besides, most lotus-eater-machine settings have them be created by humans; this way's more original.

Most 'lotus eater machines' are Bad Things by definition, which the infoverse wasn't until it was made the creation of evil aliens. So in that way, it's actually less original now than it was. Not to mention that by bringing 'easy villains' into the setting, it negates an awful lot of what might otherwise have been some interesting ambiguities and conflicts. Any questions about the actual merits of the Infoverse are all completely negated because it's now been established as being a bad thing made by the obvious bad guys. I don't personally think that's really balanced out by having 'Easy Villains'.

Grinner
2013-01-17, 12:15 PM
Most 'lotus eater machines' are Bad Things by definition, which the infoverse wasn't until it was made the creation of evil aliens. So in that way, it's actually less original now than it was. Not to mention that by bringing 'easy villains' into the setting, it negates an awful lot of what might otherwise have been some interesting ambiguities and conflicts. Any questions about the actual merits of the Infoverse are all completely negated because it's now been established as being a bad thing made by the obvious bad guys. I don't personally think that's really balanced out by having 'Easy Villains'.

This is a good point. It would be nice to have running theme other than "Deforestation got us into this mess". Something like "How much is comfort worth? Our bodies? Our freedom?" and so on.

Edit: 24. Each Spatial within the Infosphere physically exists as a server on, within, or sometimes above the Earth's surface. Each server is powered by nearby power plants, often solar panels, wind farms, and the like.

Many decades ago, the power requirements of servers would have overburdened such resources, but two advances in the area of electronic engineering have increased the efficiency of computing hardware, allowing more to be done with less energy*.

The first of these advances is called atomic encoding.

In the past, the results of computations were stored in something called RAM, or "random access memory". The problem with RAM was that it required a constant flow of electricity and was thus relatively costly to maintain. Therefore, storage memory was put into use. There were several kinds of storage memory, but the key element is that they would retain information, even after being turned off. They were much slower than RAM, however. Combined, they functioned as a workable solution to a difficult problem.

Today, atomic encoding allows for the best of both worlds. Atomic encoding memory, or AEM, is produced as small modules which plug into a computer's memory bank. The contents of each module can be accessed quickly, efficiently, and most importantly, safely. In essence, they function as both access memory and storage memory.

The second of these advances is the quantum processor.

Prior to the development the quantum processor, computations were most often done with digital processors, compact circuits of tiny devices called transistors. Digital processors had their limitations however. They were difficult to produce, requiring dust-free environments for their manufacture, as well as having unfortunate upper limits on their computational capacity. Even with the development of graphene, and later photonic, processors, they were still plagued by similar limitations.

Enter the quantum processor. While existing prior to his work, Professor Howard Phillips and his team at the University of Reading are credited with the final breakthrough of the development of a fully functional quantum processor.

By exploiting the nature of matter at subatomic levels, quantum computers can produce nigh-innumerable computations in parallel which, aside from the increased speed and efficiency of processors, also allows each Infosphere-dweller the comfort of their own processor space. While some Spatials persist in using arrays of photonic processors to serve their computing needs, quantum processors are truly what allows the Infosphere to function.

*I haven't actually done the research yet, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit 2: That...was a bit more extensive than I though it would be... :smallredface:

Othniel Edden
2013-01-17, 02:29 PM
25. Some people, usually associated with religious cults, illegally link their minds together to create multifaceted hive minds. Though they have separate physical bodies, they share sensations and thoughts and are able to generate higher than normal processing power. These abilities make them dangerous and hard to control but luckily Hiver Cults are few in number.

Added:
This idea is a type of powershare abuse found under point 21.

Some powersharers are religious in nature, and view power sharing as a religious experience. A good deal of them tend to share power at the cost of their individuality, an illegal practice in much of the infoverse. The largest of these is nicknamed the Hive, and Hivers are known in every major server seeking to extend the reach of their cult through conversion.

Pokonic
2013-01-17, 03:17 PM
26. The percentage of mankind that has been uploaded in some way or manner is actualy greatly exaggerated. What most percive as the wastelands outside are actualy full of (albet horrible) life. The survival of more than 20% of the biosphere can be given a shuddering justification in the introduction of Prisma.

Prisma, a all-purpose chemical brew that played a part in everything from growing plants to powering batteries, was shown to have horrific mutating effects on living things in the long term. First showing up in the form of hardened bone density and crystal-like growths on the skin, Prisma poisoning eventualy results in a animalistic barely-organic monstrosity thats nearly all bone and hardened sinew. The eventual result is a ecosystem that never truly dies, with swarms of half-rotten beasts teaming together to maul anything that moves that breaths. Plant matter is a grisly affair, with some of the half-dead forests being actively carnivorus.

However, many humans are immune to Prisma, and can live peaceful lives undisterbed by the horrors around them.

Sodalite
2013-01-17, 04:03 PM
Ooh, quantum computers. That certainly explains how the infosphere is computationally reasonable.

Also, with Hiver cults? That's sort of what I was trying to get at with powershare and togatherers, and it feels to me like there's a little bit too much overlap between the concepts.

Othniel Edden
2013-01-17, 04:16 PM
We could combine the ideas then, back into 21, and I could come up with something else. I just saw something earlier with religious cults and wanted to start tieing ideas together.

Sodalite
2013-01-17, 04:56 PM
I think it could be as simple as saying some togatherer groups are based in religion, consider powershare a religious experience, and share illegally large portions of their power. Anything that you see wrong with that?

Othniel Edden
2013-01-17, 05:09 PM
I think it could be as simple as saying some togatherer groups are based in religion, consider powershare a religious experience, and share illegally large portions of their power. Anything that you see wrong with that?

Nope, it works perfectly fine for me. It allows me to rewrite include something that seemed a step out for me.

Edit; Do you like the rewrite?

Frozen_Feet
2013-01-17, 05:31 PM
(27.) While extraterrextrial intelligence is to be blamed for infoverse as-it-is, neither the idea or technolpgy were theirs. Humans had already dreamed of "cyberspace" for decades and ever since invention of world-wide web, their world had headed towards increasing virtualization. By the time extraterrestrials intervened, humans had already developed all requisite technologies for infoverse to combat existing problems, just not entered mass production stage. Extraterrestials hijacked the project precisely because most their work had already been done for them.

Sodalite
2013-01-17, 05:59 PM
Yeah, I do like the rewrite, and thanks for accommodating me. Now for an idea...

28: One reason for Prisma's immense presence in current ecosystems, beyond it's use by humans, is due to it's structural similarity to prions. A single manufacturing error produced a batch of Prisma which was, technically, infectious, hijacking the cells of most vertebrate species into making producing more of it, and spreading it through out the environment.

Amaril
2013-01-17, 06:08 PM
In response to some of the controversy over the involvement of aliens in the creation of the Infosphere, I think probably the easiest solution, which would allow both ideas to coexist, is that some people believe aliens were responsible, while others do not. The absence of concrete evidence in historical records (which we can't really have if the issue is up in the air) would probably mean that the people who believe the aliens (if they exist) are behind everything are regarded as crazy, paranoid conspiracy theorists by those who don't. It's a little bit of a cheap solution, but I don't like the idea of forcing somebody to abandon a contribution they've come up with if they don't want to--that somewhat defeats the purpose of community builds.

Also, I'm glad Mr. Silver brought up the point about avatars--that's made it a lot easier for me to imagine what this world might look like to its inhabitants.

29: While it is technically illegal for AIs to be assigned avatars, since doing so would potentially allow them to disguise themselves as infohumans (the common term for the human inhabitants of the Infosphere), it is not unheard of for the self-aware "smart" AIs to violate this restriction, or for a human programmer to assign an avatar to a stardard AI they have created. This was a much bigger problem in the past, but since the inclusion of print-ID was made mandatory on all avatars, it has become significantly less common. However, for those few with the resources to fabricate counterfit prints, disguising AIs as infohumans is still entirely possible.

Othniel Edden
2013-01-17, 06:34 PM
30. Five years ago a group of 3500 infohumans lunched a satellite called the Nyx Seed. The satellite has sophisticated construction and terraforming equipment, and was sent towards Titan, because of the ample material for fuel and isolated environment, to begin construction on servers there. Communication has been sparse between Earth and the Nyx and many on earth are waiting to hear if it was successful.

EDIT; While we are at the 30 Mark it might be a good point to see how the ideas in particular interact, the direction things are going, and the big features of both the physical world and the infoverse and how they interact with one another.

Grinner
2013-01-17, 11:01 PM
EDIT; While we are at the 30 Mark it might be a good point to see how the ideas in particular interact, the direction things are going, and the big features of both the physical world and the infoverse and how they interact with one another.

That's probably a good idea.

As it stands, the world is divided into the physical and the digital realms.

We've spent a lot of time detailing the types of people in the Infosphere. There were mentions of a Ministry of Justice, but we've yet to detail what governments or other social structures are present or their relationships with each other. Do they control segments of the Infosphere, filtering traffic at the borders? What kind of Spatials have they created? What about independent Spatials?

The addition of Prisma was, personally speaking, a great idea. With most of our energy focused on the Infosphere, we hadn't detailed the lives of the still-physical humans a great deal. The existence of Prisma gives physical characters other than government androids obstacles to their goals, something to do.

Lastly, we should make a final decision regarding the status of uploaded humans' bodies, and then rewrite that contribution (#16, I believe). So far we've had five contributors in favor of rewriting it, and we've had none in favor of leaving it.

Sodalite
2013-01-17, 11:16 PM
Looking pretty good so far, from my perspective. I'm thinking of putting down an idea for a government attached to some parts the infosphere, but I can't quite yet since my turn's not come back around.

Would it be too early for me to suggest that we work a couple specific Spatials or RL human holdings?

Grinner
2013-01-17, 11:23 PM
Would it be too early for me to suggest that we work a couple specific Spatials or RL human holdings?

I was thinking of suggesting the same in the write-up, but I realized that until we know who the setting's major players are, we won't know what kind of Spatials they would create.

I figure that it's better if we take things one step at a time.

Edit: 31. Before the creation of the Infosphere, researchers in Korea noticed Prisma's deleterious effects and spent several years formulating a genetic immunity. The damage was already done, however. Remaining wildlife grew out of control in the wastelands. Compounded with the poor growing conditions for crops, the Infosphere was only a natural solution.

So humanity fled from the world. Those designated to remain behind were administered the Prisma P gene therapy, and life went on, albeit digitally.


How's that? Too much? Not enough?

Amaril
2013-01-18, 12:14 AM
I agree we should probably focus on who the major players in the Infosphere are before we determine the specifics of the virtual environments. It'll allow things to flow more naturally.

As far as 16, here's my rewrite.

16: While they may be deprived of their organic bodies, infohumans still possess the ability to procreate more of their kind. Since the inhabitants of the Infosphere lack biological DNA, the key determining factor of a newborn's characteristics is their parents' source code. When two infohumans create offspring, small segments of their code are duplicated and recombined into a new entity. Many of the functions contributed are random, but one that is always added to the mix is a growth simulation that allows the creation of even more code. The process of running the simulation takes a short amount of time, varying depending on the amount of power allocated to the "baby", but the end result is a more-or-less fully grown infohuman with their personality and functions intact, though they will lack the experience and education of their parents. Since death is not a guarantee in the Infosphere, procreation is considered to be much less imperative, and new children are compiled much less frequently than in the past.

Sorry if that didn't make any sense--computers really aren't my area of expertise (they hate my guts).

Pokonic
2013-01-18, 12:21 AM
Notes about Prisma: things infected with it are not "hostile" with things with the natural immunity gene, actualy going out of there way to avoid life with it. For instance, much of the world is still quite green, and the water is crystal-clear and safe to drink for the mostpart (possibly due to Prisma being used as a cleaner in the past).While in small numbers, normal deer trot in prisma-tainted forests and can eat there fill without fear, and there are more whales in the seas than there has been since the 18th century. Many of the species considered exinct in the wild, like much of Africas large mammals, are actualy experiancing a surge in growth without mankinds influence.

In fact, only creatures with the gene that lets Prisma take over the body are in any danger from this new world, and there are in fact many humans living life out in the supposed "wastelands". The truth is, the "immunity gene" is actualy something that was dominant in most life on the planet, with it actualy being a anomaly in mankind.

Othniel Edden
2013-01-18, 12:28 AM
How does that work with Point 15?

Sodalite
2013-01-18, 12:33 AM
Sounds alright, for both you. Korea's a curious choice, but that's just me, and the 16 edit seem fine and tidy. Now...

32: Global Simulacra, a fusion of corporate entity and governing body formed during the initial construction of the infosphere, currently holds ownership over the plurality of servers, and thus controls the majority of Spatials. Contained within are several hierarchical Ministries, including but not limited to the Ministry of Justice, Ministry of Hard & Soft Maintenance, Ministry of Economics and the supreme Ministry of Chiefs. While they are generally lax in comparison to the governments of physical humans this can in large part be owed to the immaterial nature of infohumans rather than any liberal tendencies of GS itself. It's strong anti-AI policies are especially conservative, not mention its shady dealings with unregistered infohuman groups and the rumors of it having instigated to the destruction of an uncooperative physical human holding do not help its reputation.

Ninja'd: I imagine the 'immunity gene' only is really helpful against the prion-form of Prisma. The non-replicating man-made version is still probably a powerful mutagen, but any of it that was left after the prion-form got out of hand has probably decayed in to some other less dangerous compound by now.

Pokonic
2013-01-18, 12:48 AM
Ninja'd: I imagine the 'immunity gene' only is really helpful against the prion-form of Prisma. The non-replicating man-made version is still probably a powerful mutagen, but any of it that was left after the prion-form got out of hand has probably decayed in to some other less dangerous compound by now.

Pretty much. The original form, while still far more infectus than the prion form, would be a hazard restricted only to the most horrific of abandoned manufactering areas and places where it was in heavy use. However, the original stuff was used in anything more complicated than a plug-in toaster, so something like a car would still be somewhat of a hazerd. God help you find the remains of a janitorial supply closet, for that matter.

Grinner
2013-01-18, 12:53 AM
In fact, only creatures with the gene that lets Prisma take over the body are in any danger from this new world, and there are in fact many humans living life out in the supposed "wastelands". The truth is, the "immunity gene" is actualy something that was dominant in most life on the planet, with it actualy being a anomaly in mankind.

So...susceptibility to Prisma is a result of genetic defects? And it doesn't create hostility to Prisma-immune organisms? I don't fully understand what you intended it to be, so could detail it a bit more? I fear that I may need to rewrite my last contribution.

Edit: For clarification, for what reason do Prisma-infected organisms avoid Prisma-immune organisms?


Sorry if that didn't make any sense--computers really aren't my area of expertise (they hate my guts).

I kind of get what you're saying, but there are some holes there.

It would be more plausible to say that children are produced by recombining each of the parent's digitized DNA (an unnecessary keepsake for grown infohumans, but kept as a reminder of their human heritage). See the spoiler for further explanation.

To me, infohumans are not code of any sort; they're data handled by a standardized simulation. It's also important to remember that the Infosphere was intended as a replacement for Earth.

So, while the idea of merging two minds to create a new one is interesting, it's also flawed from an intradiegetic perspective. Why choose to become a parent if you don't actually get to raise the child?

On a final note, the mind-melding idea seems more suitable for a variation on the togatherers?

Pokonic
2013-01-18, 01:11 AM
So...susceptibility to Prisma is a result of genetic defects? And it doesn't create hostility to Prisma-immune organisms? I don't fully understand what you intended it to be, so could detail it a bit more? I fear that I may need to rewrite my last contribution.




Oh, sorry.

Prisma O was the original batch. It was used in everything from manufacturing to growing food, and seemed like the perfect substance for any task. Need to power something? Buy Prisma-powered batteries. Need to clean things? A mixture of water and a tiny pinch of Prisma does the trick. Only a tiny amount was needed, and the company that made it had exclusive rights to the stuff.

It's dirty little secret was that exposure to it caused mutations. Humanity was using it so much until it's true effects were known that even the most innocent of places could house a fatal batch of the mutagenic horror. In it's true form, it's a thin clear jelly, but if you have been exposed to enough of it that you know what it looks like, chances are if you wake up the next day you will not be the same shape you fell asleep as.


Prisma P is actualy the effect of a rather unfortunate Prisma O mutation, and is the semi-aggressive prionlike set of effects on life that most associate with the name. Prisma O still exists in it's solid state, however, and it effects creatures, so-called "immunity gene" or not.

cha0s4a11
2013-01-18, 01:20 AM
33: While the Infosphere has existed as a general term referring to the collective sum of servers that contain infohumans ever since the invention of such servers, it only became a largely unified and contiguous (for lack of a better term) alternate reality with the development and widespread deployment of the Daemons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_%28computing%29) of Infosphere Security, Information, and Reliability. DISIR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disir) is the official acronym for them, but they are commonly just referred to as "The Daemons" due to their ubiquity.

DISIR is a complex set of AI's that are tasked with ensuring that the servers they are running on are running securely (i.e. through quarantine/elimination of harmful viruses, limiting corruption/hijacking of system critical processes, etc), that infohumans have the ability to seamlessly (as much as possible, given potential physical bandwidth limitations) move from one server to another, and that infohumans have a queryable source of reliable information concerning their current status and that of the server on which they reside (i.e. how fast is their clock compared to realtime, what server they are on, scheduled downtime, current world clock, etc).

DISIR has no interest in and takes no actions concerning the plans or schemes of any humans (infohuman or otherwise) so long as they are not contradictory to and do not interfere with DISIR's prerogatives. Such interference will typically result in a warning followed by automated sanctions such as isolation/containment and reducing server processor power allocation to the offending infohuman/process down to near 0 (slowing down time massively for them).

DISIR is part of the operating system for approximately 95% of servers that contain Infohumans. The rest tend to be isolated private servers of those who wish to bypass DISIR's restrictions and/or consider DISIR to be part of the extraterrestrial's plot to contain/observe humanity.

Edit: Ninja'ed with 32... hmm. I have a notion of how to reconcile, but given that this is on the long side already I'll wait my turn.

Grinner
2013-01-18, 01:42 AM
Prisma P is actualy the effect of a rather unfortunate Prisma O mutation, and is the semi-aggressive prionlike set of effects on life that most associate with the name. Prisma O still exists in it's solid state, however, and it effects creatures, so-called "immunity gene" or not.

Okay. It's good that we have a differentiation between the two forms of Prisma. The gene therapy was intended for Prisma P, but I guess that needs rewriting now.


Edit: Ninja'ed with 32... hmm. I have a notion of how to reconcile, but given that this is on the long side already I'll wait my turn.

That's fantastic!

To reconcile them, all you really need to do is add something about DISIR being produced by Global Simulacra. That is unless you have other plans, of course.

Aside from the physics simulation, it is essentially the OS of most Spatials, right?

cha0s4a11
2013-01-18, 02:16 AM
That's fantastic!

To reconcile them, all you really need to do is add something about DISIR being produced by Global Simulacra. That is unless you have other plans, of course.

I'm thinking that it strains credulity that the the conservative strongly Anti-AI Infosphere superpower megacorp is responsible for the most ubiquitous and certainly one of the most technically powerful set of AI's on the Infosphere and makes a point of ensuring that the vast majority of its servers are using said AI's.

How I would reconcile would be to say that the reason that DISIR is so widespread is because it itself has a viral distribution system. In short, any infohuman who is on a DISIR server is tagged with a small (encrypted) random piece of DISIR's program. If enough such infohumans (maybe 10,000 on average, say) go to a server that does not have DISIR on it, the pieces of code on those humans will decrypt, combine, and self-assemble a new copy of DISIR on that server and will add that server to DISIR's network.

DISIR has been allowed to propagate this way because no reliable method of de-tagging DISIR code from an infohuman has been found. Thus the only way to eliminate DISIR from a system in general use involves deletion of all infohuman data on that system. To all except the most virulently anti-AI/DISIR paranoid, to eliminate that many infohumans just to get rid of something that is obviously useful and without any glaring downsides is simply too insane a notion to consider.

Like I said though - My entry is on the long side already and I'll be more than happy to wait my turn. I'd rather hold off on adding canon and see if someone has a better reconcile. If not, I'll just make this + any embellishments as my next entry.

rorikdude12
2013-01-21, 11:43 AM
34: A number of groups of infohumans have arisen that see the Ministry of Justice and Global Simulacra in general as a serious threat to infohumans as a species. These groups are collectively referred to as "The Kropotkin Enigma" after Peter Kropotkin, famous anarcho-communist, and their members as "Petes", "Krop-Pots", and simply "anarchists". They, along with Global Simulacra, have been working on Software Elimination Programs, or "SEPs". These "SEPS" can damage or even destroy code on servers that are shared with the SEPs. They require a user to execute the code, though the user can be an AI or a infohuman. These SEPs can take any shape, and only require the user's Avatar to see the representation visually of the target on the same server, as well as being within"range" of the SEP, but range varies. The power of the SEPs vary, but once the SEP hits, the code targeted is gone permanently. The more code targeted, the longer the "load time" it takes the SP to execute. The stopping power of SEPs vary, but it's a veritable arms race between factions in the Infosphere. A SEP can be an entity of its own (appearing as a gun or sword) or as a part of a user (a hand cannon, Mega Man arm, claws, or fist).

SEPs are very dangerous, and often frowned upon due to their lethality and ease of use. Though SEPs can be "dodged" or "blocked" with proper circumvention programs or firewalls, these programs are hard to come by, and SEPs rarely miss (20% to 0.01% miss chance depending on quality).

Landis963
2013-01-21, 01:03 PM
35. There is in fact a method of nullifying SEPs reliably (if not 100% foolproof). However, it has a couple of caveats. One: Only AIs have the reaction speed necessary to input commands with the pinpoint accuracy necessary, and even then only when they are expecting an SEP attack. Two: There must be an intelligence inputting the commands for the countermeasure to work as planned, removing the possibility of automated "dumb" AIs playing sentinel. When the necessary measures are in place, it slows down the server considerably, causing the lag itself to disconnect the attack from its target. DISIR uses it to protect its denizens, but only when an SEP can be stopped - if it is found too late, sucks for the target.

rorikdude12
2013-01-21, 01:30 PM
35. There is in fact a method of nullifying SEPs reliably (if not 100% foolproof). However, it has a couple of caveats. One: Only AIs have the reaction speed necessary to commands with the pinpoint accuracy necessary, and even then only when they are expecting an SEP attack. Two: When the necessary measures are in place, it slows down the server considerably, causing the lag itself to disconnect the attack from its target. DISIR uses it to protect its denizens, but only when an SEP can be stopped - if it is found too late, sucks for the target.

Landis963 gets three more internet cookies!

Sodalite
2013-01-21, 04:23 PM
36: SEPs 'destroy' data by attacking the physical server where that data is stored. Specifically, they route an immense number of Print checks through the imaging software of the server, to where the target's personality and physics data are stored. All the checks, arriving at once, overtaxes the machine, causing just enough physical damage for the data to become irretrievable. However, by slowing the general speed of the server, the checks arrive at a slow enough pace to prevent any physical damage.

Amaril
2013-01-21, 06:18 PM
So weapons of mass destruction in the Infosphere attack the server by sending print requests? I like it :smallamused:

Also, this setting needs a name. I'd suggest infoLife.

Sodalite
2013-01-21, 06:33 PM
I imagine that's the reason why you need to use the lag as a defense, rather than just put a wall. There just isn't a way to put up a wall against print requests without throwing the whole idea of identity in to question.

As for a name, I suppose infoLife is fine. I at least haven't thought of anything better.

Landis963
2013-01-21, 09:33 PM
36: SEPs 'destroy' data by attacking the physical server where that data is stored. Specifically, they route an immense number of Print checks through the imaging software of the server, to where the target's personality and physics data are stored. All the checks, arriving at once, overtaxes the machine, causing just enough physical damage for the data to become irretrievable. However, by slowing the general speed of the server, the checks arrive at a slow enough pace to prevent any physical damage.

But Print checks don't work if there isn't a word processor connected to the server (and why would there be? They'd just look for a word processor, fail to find one, and then the AI (or Physical human if there's a monitor attached) in charge would be instantly tipped off, nullify the rest of the Print checks, and all that work goes down the drain.) Also, having it occur on the physical side drastically increases the collateral involved; there's no way to target one infohuman, or one AI user (assuming of course that AI superusers like DISIR don't have avatars). If one memory unit fails due to heat, what's stopping the other memory units in the same casing failing due to heat? And don't point to the "prevent any physical damage" line; because once you generate heat, if there isn't someone or something around to mitigate it (e.g. opening the case, blowing on it, fire extinguisher), it's going to stay there for hours in the physical world and continue to wreak havoc for virtually eons-worth in the server, depending on internal clock speed and how the heat messes with that.

EDIT: Amaril, Have you considered, once the name for the setting has been chosen, to add it to the beginning of the thread title? e.g. this thread would be called "infoLife: Let's Build a Sci-Fi Setting!"

Amaril
2013-01-21, 10:58 PM
EDIT: Amaril, Have you considered, once the name for the setting has been chosen, to add it to the beginning of the thread title? e.g. this thread would be called "infoLife: Let's Build a Sci-Fi Setting!"

Yeah, good idea, thanks. Doing that now.

Sodalite
2013-01-21, 11:01 PM
Why would you need a word processor? Also, the damage isn't due to overheating, its because the circuitry is small enough to be vulnerable to corrosion cause by relatively large amounts of current.

Mr.Silver
2013-01-21, 11:15 PM
37. SEPs aside, the main health worries for Infohumans are mental ones. Prolonged exposure to the raw streams of data; being caught in sever crashes; the strain of dealing with time dilation; all of these can have negative effects on the human mind, evolved as it is for dealing with a physical world. Indeed, the Avatars and Spatials of the Infoverse exist largely as a safeguard against the possible shock a human mind might face when thrown into a raw digital environment.
Unsurprisingly, mental disorders and illnesses (both old varieties and new) are not uncommon problems for infohumans. Consequently, most of the Ministry of Health's efforts are in the fields of psychology and electro-psychiatry.





As for a name, I suppose infoLife is fine. I at least haven't thought of anything better.

I'd was thinking 'Duality' (Physical and the Digital worlds; infohumans and AIs; Mind-body dualism for those more philosophically inclined) but 'infolife' seems fine.

Landis963
2013-01-22, 10:19 AM
Why would you need a word processor? Also, the damage isn't due to overheating, its because the circuitry is small enough to be vulnerable to corrosion cause by relatively large amounts of current.

And again, I point to the collateral. How exactly would you target one, specific, infohuman or AI avatar? Especially because "corrosion caused by... large amounts of current" is essentially overheating one single memory bank, which doesn't seem possible. Also, the fact that specifically Print checks are used means that the computer will search for a printer, which means it would search for a document to print, which means that it searches for a word processor or pdf viewer of some kind. If none of these exist, then the SEP sticks out like a sore thumb growing out of your forehead, and is easy prey for a superuser who knows what they're doing.

EDIT:

Yeah, good idea, thanks. Doing that now.

Would you consider doing that with the Suspended Dominion as well? Might generate a bit more interest.

Sodalite
2013-01-22, 10:58 AM
Hm...I am less sure on the physical destruction part now. However, you are misunderstanding what I mean by Print, since I'm not using any actual, present term by that. What I mean is that it's checking to see if that specific infohuman's Print, and identifying code given to every infohuman, is valid. The code also is processed to give that infohuman's avatar a distinguishing mark, which is why it's connected to any imaging software to begin with.

Grinner
2013-01-22, 11:15 AM
38. It is widely suspected that most physical governments are merely puppets of Global Simulacra, but there are no credible confirmations to this effect.

Landis963
2013-01-22, 11:16 AM
Hm...I am less sure on the physical destruction part now. However, you are misunderstanding what I mean by Print, since I'm not using any actual, present term by that. What I mean is that it's checking to see if that specific infohuman's Print, and identifying code given to every infohuman, is valid. The code also is processed to give that infohuman's avatar a distinguishing mark, which is why it's connected to any imaging software to begin with.

...oh. :smallredface: Oops. That makes more sense now, yeah.

My point about the collateral still stands, but yeah. D'you mind working together on my next point, esp. since it might require some retconning on your part? I think I have a way to surgically remove a single infohuman (or AI user) in a way that reconciles how the SEPs work with how AI superusers can defend a server against them.

EDIT: I'll PM you with the first draft of my next point, and we can thrash out anything obviously wrong.

Othniel Edden
2013-01-22, 12:19 PM
Are infohumans able to be transmitted tirelessly or via radio waves, or has that been addressed or implied yet?

Grinner
2013-01-22, 12:26 PM
Are infohumans able to be transmitted tirelessly or via radio waves, or has that been addressed or implied yet?

That hasn't been addressed yet.

I had been thinking something like quantum entanglement networks, seeing as they use quantum processors and reconfigure atoms for memory storage.

Sgt. Cookie
2013-01-22, 02:14 PM
I've been reading up on the SEP thing, and I have an idea as to how it works:

39. An SEP attack works by targeting the physical, real world storage area with an intense electrical charge, as you already know.

What this charge does is it causes the transistors to fluctuate wildly, causing the NOT gates that make up the actual storage flicker on and off at an extremely fast rate, corrupting the data beyond repair.

Because of the way storage works, only the section where the code is physically stored is affected.


College electronics has finally paid off.

Sodalite
2013-01-22, 02:54 PM
Wait...I just remembered, we're dealing with quantum computers. I have the feeling that changes the context, somewhat, though my somewhat lack of familiarity makes me unsure.

Grinner
2013-01-22, 03:01 PM
Wait...I just remembered, we're dealing with quantum computers. I have the feeling that changes the context, somewhat, though my somewhat lack of familiarity makes me unsure.

My brief research on the subject gave me this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_circuit). From what I can tell, the concept is largely analogous to modern processors in that uses a series of logic gates to make its calculations. It just does so multiple times in parallel by exploiting quantum mechanics.

Also, I should bring this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/QuantumMechanicsCanDoAnything) to your attention.

Sgt. Cookie
2013-01-22, 03:10 PM
So, overcharging the Transistors would work, In a hand waivey sort of way?

Grinner
2013-01-22, 03:25 PM
So, overcharging the Transistors would work, In a hand waivey sort of way?

Yeah, I think so.

Doesn't that attack operate on the memory, not the processor?

Othniel Edden
2013-01-22, 03:34 PM
That hasn't been addressed yet.

I had been thinking something like quantum entanglement networks, seeing as they use quantum processors and reconfigure atoms for memory storage.

I'm just asking because if they can it makes it so they can travel at the speed of light as long as they had a device that could receive that sort of data. That could make the setting somewhat expanded. I hinted at something like that with the Nyx Seed, but thats a "manned craft". What I'm wondering is if we think infohumans would need craft like this once stations are established, or if they could travel freely between two distant points, or if you'd get something in between, like train stations, where at certain intervals stations transmitted date between each other when its safe.

Sodalite
2013-01-22, 03:47 PM
I'm thinking, given that all the simulation is all about making virtual life comfortable for infohumans, that there would be virtual 'stations' a long the way, since if you were just jumping from Earth to Nyx, there would be this weird time-disjunction where you experienced nearly no time at all, but the rest of the world might have experienced upwards of an hour, which would only be exacerbated by the way the simulation speed is faster the RL time. Having several stops along the way, thus, spreads that disjunction over several smaller breaks, until they're small enough to be bellow notice.

Grinner
2013-01-22, 03:59 PM
I'm just asking because if they can it makes it so they can travel at the speed of light as long as they had a device that could receive that sort of data. That could make the setting somewhat expanded. I hinted at something like that with the Nyx Seed, but thats a "manned craft". What I'm wondering is if we think infohumans would need craft like this once stations are established, or if they could travel freely between two distant points, or if you'd get something in between, like train stations, where at certain intervals stations transmitted date between each other when its safe.

Once a receiving station is set up, definitely.

However, a quantum entangled transceiver or transmission waystations would be preferable, since solar radiation would screw the signal long before it ever reached Titan.

Othniel Edden
2013-01-22, 04:10 PM
Right, I was thinking of having stations already set up between the Earth and Mars primarily with Titan being the first real outer solar system attempt of significant value. I will work with the assumption that waystations work best.

Landis963
2013-01-22, 04:42 PM
:smallannoyed: OK, I must be missing something major. Is the SEP a sniper rifle, or a tactical nuke? Because I'm not sure how flipping the transistors on and off would restrict itself to a single infohuman's info. I've been working under the impression that it's an attack that affects a single infohuman, and thus physical attacks carry the risk of "killing" multiple people.

Grinner
2013-01-22, 04:48 PM
:smallannoyed: OK, I must be missing something major. Is the SEP a sniper rifle, or a tactical nuke? Because I'm not sure how flipping the transistors on and off would restrict itself to a single infohuman's info. I've been working under the impression that it's an attack that affects a single infohuman, and thus physical attacks carry the risk of "killing" multiple people.

I had been under the impression that it spams delayed identification requests to a single infohuman. These requests are all timed to occur at once, overloading the associated memory, and causing the infohuman's data to deteriorate.

So, sniper rifle.

Landis963
2013-01-22, 04:52 PM
I had been under the impression that it spams delayed identification requests to a single infohuman. These requests are all timed to occur at once, overloading the associated memory, and causing the infohuman's data to deteriorate.

So, sniper rifle.

OK, yes, that part makes sense, but having it occur on the physical side, either by heat as with Sodalite's method, or this transistor corruption via Sgt. Cookie's, carries with it the possibility of affecting multiple people, especially if their info is stored on a server with multiple people "living" on it.

Sgt. Cookie
2013-01-22, 05:00 PM
Computer memory is a series of NOT gates, which correlate to binary state 0 or 1. Buy spamming a particular set a date your overloading a very particular set of NOT gates, and such a particular set of transistors. While it would be dangerous to nearby transistors, the damage wouldn't be nearly as great.

Grinner
2013-01-22, 05:01 PM
OK, yes, that part makes sense, but having it occur on the physical side, either by heat as with Sodalite's method, or this transistor corruption via Sgt. Cookie's, carries with it the possibility of affecting multiple people, especially if their info is stored on a server with multiple people "living" on it.

Yep.

I think we need to face the fact that we have many different contributors, each with varying degrees of relevant knowledge and each with their own ideas. In fact, given our working conditions, it might be wise to simply scrap the low-level explanations and focus on the concepts.

Edit:


Computer memory is a series of NOT gates, which correlate to binary state 0 or 1. Buy spamming a particular set a date your overloading a very particular set of NOT gates, and such a particular set of transistors. While it would be dangerous to nearby transistors, the damage wouldn't be nearly as great.

I've been thinking about it, and that's...problematic. I have a hard time believing that Global Simulacra or DISIR would allow anyone direct hardware access.

Edit 2: Have you read this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14545053&postcount=34) yet? I feel that it's especially relevant to you.

Sgt. Cookie
2013-01-22, 05:13 PM
Apart from not letting people store data. They have to.

If your unclear on the matter, we're not talking about the physical memory memory, we're going one step lower, to what makes the memory actualy work. That's what the electricity attacks. It's no more possible to stop than stopping your own brain from feeling temperature.

Grinner
2013-01-22, 05:16 PM
Modern operating systems don't allow their programs direct hardware access. The infohumans are analogous to these programs. They interact with their environment, and the environment handles the rest.

Sgt. Cookie
2013-01-22, 05:21 PM
The Infohuman's data still has to be stored somewhere, though. Correct?

Grinner
2013-01-22, 05:23 PM
Yes...but they have limited means of manipulating it, barring a Spatial-wide hack.

Sgt. Cookie
2013-01-22, 05:29 PM
The attack functions by repeatedly asking for the Ih's data, which overloads the physical hardware.

Grinner
2013-01-22, 05:38 PM
The attack functions by repeatedly asking for the Ih's data, which overloads the physical hardware.

Yeah, I'm not actually sure about that, since we're applying the expectations of modern electronics to a speculative form of memory storage I read about years ago in a half-remembered science news article.

For this reason, I'd like to collectively drop the need for explanations, focus on the concepts, and rely on each other to determine whether a contribution is plausible or not.

Othniel Edden
2013-01-22, 06:01 PM
It really depends if this is a hard SF setting or not. I'm in favor for remaining conceptual and not going into technical details. I'm certainly not an engineer and most of my interest in this stuff is whats possible and not how it works.

rorikdude12
2013-01-22, 09:44 PM
I never meant for SEPs to start a two-page fight. I just wanted a way to have digital combat. You're obsessing about low-level explanations of SEPs while assuming that brain uploading doesn't need discussions? Way to pick the hill to die on, guys.

Seriously: Make it explainable or don't.

Sodalite
2013-01-22, 09:50 PM
Honestly, I think it was my fault for even trying to explain the mechanics to begin with, so I suppose I'll take credit for such a derailing of the thread. If we could, let's all try to move on to either another topic of discussion, or back to putting new ideas down, I would exceptionally pleased.

Landis963
2013-01-22, 10:08 PM
I never meant for SEPs to start a two-page fight. I just wanted a way to have digital combat. You're obsessing about low-level explanations of SEPs while assuming that brain uploading doesn't need discussions? Way to pick the hill to die on, guys.

Seriously: Make it explainable or don't.

Hear Hear. Cast my vote for "unexplainable."

40. The aims of Global Simulacra have decayed somewhat from their conception. Originally, as the name implies, they were involved in cutting-edge robotics, android/gynoid design, and AI research. However, with the rise of the Infosphere, and the drastically greater role that AIs play, they began to fear their own creations, leading them to become the paranoid cabal they are today.

Grinner
2013-01-22, 11:34 PM
I never meant for SEPs to start a two-page fight. I just wanted a way to have digital combat. You're obsessing about low-level explanations of SEPs while assuming that brain uploading doesn't need discussions? Way to pick the hill to die on, guys.

Seriously: Make it explainable or don't.

:smallsigh: Relax, will you? It's not a fight. Far from it. It's progress.

The technologies shouldn't be inexplicable, but they need not be fully documented. Otherwise, it's silly and confusing. :smallwink:

Also, I should point out that SEPs, as they are, aren't for combat. They're for murder. They're like guns, but they don't miss, usually.

Amaril
2013-01-22, 11:49 PM
I feel bad that there's conflict occurring on the thread I started, but I'm afraid this has gone way beyond the realm of any kind of science I understand, so my ability to contribute to solving the dispute over SEPs is essentially nonexistent (as I've specified previously, I am completely lost when it comes to computers, beyond the ability required to post on here). As the owner of the thread, I'd like to propose that any discussion or mention of SEPs be temporarily forbidden, in the interest of preserving co-operation and goodwill. We can return to the issue and make it work later.

Grinner
2013-01-23, 12:00 AM
Again, this is a creative effort. Conflict is to be expected. Handled maturely, conflict is how problems are solved.

Haven't we pretty much finished SEPs anyway?

artofregicide
2013-01-23, 12:29 AM
Wow, no one told me that this thread had been started. I'd been hoping to contribute.

41: There are anomalies on the infoSphere, glitches or mistakes that can't always be explained by faulty code or mechanic malfunction. Occasionally, Infohumans disappear entirely, and then reappear without reason. It is said that there are some hard to reach locations which defy the logic of the Infosphere itself, infinite and mathematically are impossible. They twist and bend beyond the capacity of even an AI to understand, and are impossible to escape.

Of course, none of this has ever been officially confirmed or denied, but a multitude of theories abound. Most call it superstition, an outdated and primitive reaction from remnants of human psychology, but others speak of something hidden deeper in the InfoSPhere than even its creators know. Aliens, AI collectives, Demons, Shadow Governments, Time and Space Paradoxes and more: all have been theorized but never proven.

Othniel Edden
2013-01-23, 01:47 AM
42. The current year is the Year of Origin represented as 0 YO. Our time frame should stretch from -100 YO to +200 YO to signify when past events took places to where future events may take place. This unit of measurement is based on complex predictive AI programs originally built for banking and other economic measurements. These AIs are called PROFITs. (:smallbiggrin::smallwink: Plus I wanted an In game calender system without having to rely on the real calender)

Grinner
2013-01-23, 10:59 AM
43. The Ministry of Chiefs and the Ministry of Economics are headquartered in the Spatial known as Alpha One.

The Ministry of Hard & Soft Maintenance, often referred to as the Ministry of Maintenance, is also headquartered there, but it also maintains an outpost on every Global Simulacra-owned Spatial. The Ministry of Justice follows this method of operation as well.

cha0s4a11
2013-01-23, 09:38 PM
Ah, I should probably get around to de-schrodingering my last proposed entry about the DISIR (which in reading have come to realize should be plural as a collection of Daemons or AIs)...

44: The reason that the DISIR are installed upon the vast majority of systems is not due to intentional choice of the managers of such systems, but rather because the DISIR propagate across server networks through a viral distribution system using infohumans as carriers.

As part of its operation, the DISIR tag any infohumans on their servers with a small, random, and encrypted piece of DISIR's code. If sufficiently many such infohumans arrive on another server to ensure that the DISIR's complete codeset is embedded amongst them, the pieces of code will decrypt, combine, and self-assemble into a copy of the DISIR which will proceed to take over operations of the server and add the server to the DISIR's network.

The DISIR have been reluctantly allowed to propagate in this way on most servers due to the lack of a reliable method to detag infohumans without risking damage to the infohumans' code. Thus the only way to permanently remove the DISIR from a populated server is to purge the code of all (or at least the vast majority of) DISIR tagged infohumans from the server in question. Given that this would result in widespread deletion of the vast majority of infohumans if applied universally and that the DISIR have been obviously useful in their efforts to maintain an integrated InfoSphere, such a universal purge of the DISIR from systems is outright rejected as a borderline insane notion by all except the most anti-AI or DISIR paranoid.

Conventional wisdom suggests that the DISIR began as an server management prototype AI complex developed by Global Simulacra that went rogue and began taking over and managing systems without regard for GS's desire to charge for such functionality, precipitating GS's turn to more anti-AI policies. Less conventional wisdom suggests that the DISIR were created by aliens to monitor and contain the current primary form of humanity, as a sort of "Prisma of the Infosphere".

In any event, the avatars chosen by the DISIR when either making a public announcement on a server or responding to a publicly made query depict them as classical statues/sculptures of varying proportions, faces, and descriptions. Attempts to determine which statue represents which AI in the DISIR complex (or if there is any such correlation at all) have proven futile as all answers that the DISIR give use either a royal or collective 'We' when referring to themselves.

Destroying such statues through the use of SEPs is ill-advised. Only one infohuman who has done so has ever been found afterwards. He was found several years after the event with the psychological symptoms of being completely alone for several centuries of subjective time. When asked about him, the DISIR have responded with little more than "We believe we have given him sufficient time to contemplate his erroneous choices and are confident that he will not disrupt operations further".

Landis963
2013-01-23, 11:32 PM
IBM is always referred to as a singular entity, as was SPECTRE. Should DISIR be any different? (I ask merely because "The Daemons" seems like a perfectly reasonable plural equivalent, and "DISIR" reads like a singular entity)

EDIT: Also, is there one statue per server that DISIR uses as a mouthpiece, or is it more like "when two DISIR AIs are on the same server, one uses the Thinker and the other uses the Statue of Liberty"?

cha0s4a11
2013-01-24, 12:02 AM
IBM is always referred to as a singular entity, as was SPECTRE. Should DISIR be any different? (I ask merely because "The Daemons" seems like a perfectly reasonable plural equivalent, and "DISIR" reads like a singular entity)

It's kind of a weird edge case - The term that the acronym is based on (Disir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disir)) is a plural of Dis - it's just that the Old Norse language deals with plurals differently than English. Weird plurals sound downright unamerican if you ask me, but that's how it goes. :smallbiggrin:

In case the smiley didn't give it away, that last sentence was intended to be a joke.


EDIT: Also, is there one statue per server that DISIR uses as a mouthpiece, or is it more like "when two DISIR AIs are on the same server, one uses the Thinker and the other uses the Statue of Liberty"?

I generally figured that DISIR statues would always appear in groups - i.e. Any public query may be answered by some combination of the Thinker, The Weeping Angel from Doctor Who, The Venus de Milo, The Statue of Liberty, etc etc. without any known indication of which Daemon is represented by which statue (or if that is consistent on a server much less across servers).

Landis963
2013-01-24, 12:20 AM
It's kind of a weird edge case - The term that the acronym is based on (Disir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disir)) is a plural of Dis - it's just that the Old Norse language deals with plurals differently than English. Weird plurals sound downright unamerican if you ask me, but that's how it goes. :smallbiggrin:

In case the smiley didn't give it away, that last sentence was intended to be a joke.

So I gathered.


I generally figured that DISIR statues would always appear in groups - i.e. Any public query may be answered by some combination of the Thinker, The Weeping Angel from Doctor Who, The Venus de Milo, The Statue of Liberty, etc etc. without any known indication of which Daemon is represented by which statue (or if that is consistent on a server much less across servers).

With that in mind, I'd have the DISIR statues be obviously based on real, classical ones, but with twists; The Thinker has something on his lap, the Weeping Angel's snarling mouth is exposed, the Venus de Milo has arms but no head, the Statue of Liberty is a nude, etc. Play up their alien-ness a bit.

Amaril
2013-01-24, 10:43 AM
I like the statues with a twist idea, but just remember--be very, very careful about placing a Weeping Angel statue in a game where one or more of your players are Whovians.

Or do it all the time, if you want to really mess with their heads :smallbiggrin:

Othniel Edden
2013-01-25, 07:16 PM
45. Small colonies of infohumans (and physical humans in the Case of Mars) dot space inside the Asteroid belt. Facillities to study Venus, colonies on the moon, relay satellites stretching between Earth and Mars. However these stations are often independent of Global Simulacra. Aries Aerotech, Serenity Ltd., and Lockheed-Time Warner are the largest presence in space, and satellites, due to their isolated nature, often find themselves self governed.

cha0s4a11
2013-01-31, 12:13 AM
46: While there exist a fairly wide variety of physics engines used by various servers in the Infosphere to render the spatials' "Physical" environments and avatars of the occupants of those servers, the various physics engines tend to have a number of commonalities and follow various conventions.

Apart from creating a roughly pre-prisma Earth standard environment (with occasionally some variations in a few factors such as gravity, weather generation, etc), most physics engines often are able to grant the InfoHumans that they render access to features that are useful for convenience (i.e. Fast Travel/Teleportation, Avatar invulnerability, Pain dampening/nulling, etc) or for handling server realities (i.e. In conjunction with DISIR, the physics engine can set up "portals" to allow transport to other servers). Exactly which benefits are available, how accessible these benefits are and how much they cost to gain (or if they are free) varies greatly from server to server.

Hacking the physics server to illegally grant access to these benefits for oneself and denying such benefits to others is commonplace and almost required for any infoHuman that wishes to subdue any other infoHuman, though there are plenty of associated risks in doing so that vary from server to server.

Landis963
2013-02-03, 06:56 PM
47. Global Simulacra, whenever they feel that a certain influence is growing dangerous for whatever reason, send in an infohuman agent to remove or neutralize said influence. These agents are given the power to slow relative time around them, teleport from place to place, and telekinetically hold a target in the air. That plus a hidden SEP weapon makes them master assassins.

Amaril
2013-02-03, 09:55 PM
47. Global Simulacra, whenever they feel that a certain influence is growing dangerous for whatever reason, send in an infohuman agent to remove or neutralize said influence. These agents are given the power to slow relative time around them, teleport from place to place, and telekinetically hold a target in the air. That plus a hidden SEP weapon makes them master assassins.

Am I detecting some subtle reference to the Whalers from Dishonored?...

Landis963
2013-02-04, 12:53 AM
Am I detecting some subtle reference to the Whalers from Dishonored?...

Mebbe...
blah blah post filler blah

Organmonkey
2013-03-03, 10:53 PM
48.

The dangerous Anomalies mentioned as a Prisma for the infosphere are preludes to a strange protean new section of the infosphere not held in regular servers.

Prisma's crystalline growth formation systems are actually semi-naturally occurring circuit systems (not circuit boards they are to basic for that).

The warping and destruction of code prior to this was due to the crystals growing through physical servers prior to connection and damaging them.

Alexkubel
2013-03-26, 05:14 PM
50.

a group known as the search, google or the Haven beleive that the firstattempt at an extrasolar manned ship is still out there and can be found on the infosphere. this seemingly hopeless task actually has some backing, a mysterious figure who's name is giben as 'Lord Dictator Warmaster 'Professor' Josh Battle' they had an unusual thing about them, prior to prints they had the ID 1 the print system acted as if this was a print ID, they only appear for short amounts of time, DISIR describes them as a risk to every single sentience on the inforshere (all AIs and infohumans) this being is unknown to be a human that has accessed the infoshere and is logging onand of or an faulty early AI or infohuman that has attempted to attack DISIR but barelyesaped the sonciquences, some suggest that it is one of the aliens that created the infosphere, but the haven maintain their beleif that this being is actually the engineer from the first extrasolar spaceflight, calling for help.

51.

The first manned xtra solar flightby the Human race is listed as a failure untill otherwise, after the craft dissppeared under mysterious surcumstances. in actual fac it had gone though a wormhole and appeared above the aliens homeworld causing mass heart attack from fear of death, the shock of this and resultant capture of the crew ment that the aliens had motive to stop humas from making a second attempt, fearing worse reactions. the Crew are:
Andrew Mason
John Lennon
David Armstrong
Alan Tracy
John Tracy
Josh Youngs

dancingfiend
2013-03-28, 02:47 AM
52. (expansion of 47) Certain infohuman agents utilize multipurpose AIs to gain the full benefit of their status, who can swap their PRINT number if it is beneficial to the user such as a shield against an enemy SEP attack.

The special agents and their AIs are a closely guarded secret of the Global Simulacra with numbers possibly in the double or single digits, as estimated by those incredibly rare few secret traders who know of them.

These AIs are formed to be specifically loyal to the agents through a process shrouded in secrecy to even the agents.

(first time poster, I liked the idea of this setting and figured that the agents would have some way of getting the extra processing power needed to use their cool powers)

Rabidmuskrat
2013-03-30, 04:57 AM
53.

The global network generally referred to as the Infosphere has its earliest origins in a rather more primitive global network once used for information transfer, the Internet. As such, most of the current servers comprising the Infosphere used to be corporate and government servers, upgraded and re purposed to hold infoLife along with their original function as corporations offered to digitize their employees and provide permanent living space, in exchange for eternal servitude.

However, there are a surprisingly large number of private servers. These are upgraded computers belonging to those wealthy enough to afford the digitization process and the computers themselves, groups who banded together to afford the entry, or those who became wealthy enough since. These servers tend to be smaller than the corporate versions and usually have some sort of restricted access. Once inside, however, their security settings tend to be far more lax, some even allowing instant teleportation (called wipping, due to the sound) to any location and limited admin access to all inside.

Most private servers are comprised of several connected real world computers and as such normally holds a few families, not just one.

0evil_overlord0
2013-03-31, 09:17 PM
54:
One source of constant controversy and political debate is the Human Identity preservation act. During the early days of development, several people began modifying their personalities, and one was deleted. This sparked a debate over whether or not they counted as human after the modifications. The act was created to distinguish humans from programs within the infosphere.

1. Modifying a human being's personality results in a different person who shares memories with the original. Doing this is illegal and doing it to someone else is considered murder. The same applies with unlicensed memory modifications as these can also result in personality changes.

2. Duplicating someone completely is considered illegal and the clones are not considered humans. This is controversial, as the clones are identical to the original in most cases. Many believe that the clones should be allowed to live. Creating a modified duplicate must be officially sanctioned, and the act of doing so is considered creating a new person. "Reproduction" is a clone with the personality of both "parents" and no memories. Unsanctioned reproduction would overwhelm servers through sheer number of people.

3. Modifying the operation of the mind results in being branded an AI. While still retaining the memories and personality of the original person, the being no longer functions like a human.

4. AIs are defined as any intelligent program that does not have a human avatar, and humans must always use a human avatar. This law is also controversial - some believe AIs should be treated as humans too.

Alexkubel
2013-04-06, 09:37 AM
55.

The Haven have AI's set up in their server to use secialised SEP weapons thatgive checks on athority to enter the server on all personel entering the server, it is repeated at such speed that all NonHaven trying to enter are destroyed in the same way as when a Normal SEP is used, if one check works then the rest cancel. this has lead to tentons with DISIR as the code DISIR use does not count as part of the person entering. meaning the code is removed unless authorised by Haven which hasn't happend.

56

Haven has both Human and AI members and bleive thereis no point in desrimination.

57.

A rouge AI known as 'Ed' is a trouble maker, using a human avatar, some belive that it is human, but somehow survived a SEP weapon but lost their personality and memory, which explanes alot. it is unknown if this is true, but Ed persists in 'hunting for the truth' what it is is unknown. and it is never there when you expect it.