Unorthodox fighting styles

[InaVegt]

Evader [Style]

You are trained to dodge attacks, not use armor.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, int 13, first level only.
Benefits: Instead of using armor class you make a reflex save for half damage with a DC of the attack roll, you do not gain any special bonuses to this roll even if you would get them to AC.
Normal: you gain no reflex save for attacks but you do use AC.
Special: You can only take this feat at first level, you can only take one style feat.

More to come later.

[Were-Sandwich]

Errr. I misunderstand "You do not use Armour Class"

[Fualkner Asiniti]

Errr. I misunderstand "You do not use Armour Class"


Basically, this is for rouges. They don't wear armor, they make reflex saves instead.

[ishi]

"You do not use armor class"...so does every attack against you hit?

Also, Improved Evasion + Evader = Half damage from all physical attacks?

[InaVegt]

"You do not use armor class"...so does every attack against you hit?
Yes, it does.

Also, Improved Evasion + Evader = Half damage from all physical attacks?
Yes, indeed, however let me compare based on a maxed out halfling rogue at level 10:

Dex 20 base, +2 from levels is +6 dex and +3 leather armor, amulet of natural armor +2, bracers of armor +1 and +1 size bonus: Reflex save bonus of 7+6=13 and ac of 23, for a feat and class feature that doesn't seem very much, especcially since you are now powerless against touch attacks that don't deal direct damage and have spent a feat and a class feature choice on it.

[ishi]

It just seems like too much of a difference from normal D&D. Maybe this is just me, but it wouldn't feel like D&D; maybe this would be better suited if it were incorporated into a set of variant rules.

[Casualgamer]

Someone should make a Capoeira style. THAT would be unorthodox.

[Toric]

So, when you first take this feat, all attacks hit, and you take either full or half damage depending on whether you make the reflex save? This somehow doesn't seem like a good substitution for AC, especially for melee characters.

[Pegasos989]

Yes, it does.

Yes, indeed, however let me compare based on a maxed out halfling rogue at level 10:

Dex 20 base, +2 from levels is +6 dex and +3 leather armor, amulet of natural armor +2, bracers of armor +1 and +1 size bonus: Reflex save bonus of 7+6=13 and ac of 23, for a feat and class feature that doesn't seem very much, especcially since you are now powerless against touch attacks that don't deal direct damage and have spent a feat and a class feature choice on it.


First we try with someone not wanting to optimize (I know that if I spent an hour with this I would get this really broken but most players propably won't...). I will use max dex, as you did:
10th level halfling rogue:
Cloack of resistance +2
+1 racial bonus on saves
+8 dex bonus (+2 race, +4 dex item, 18 base, so bonus +8)
+2 lightning reflexes
+7 base
=+20 reflex saves, success negates all damage and even with failure he only takes half damage.

How is this not broken?

But it gets worse, in case this same save mechanic is also applied to all ACs (touch and FF attack).

And these are naturally only about how bad it gets, not how much it slows down the game with constant saves, etc.



What if we changed mechanic to remove all damage on a succesful save but evasion would not affect and the save would be at -5 penalty?

[Nocte]

You can't use armor, but you still have your AC?

Then, you make your reflex, and if you fail and the attack still beats your ac (always without armor), you take the damage. Else if you fail your reflex save , and the attack hits, you take half damage. Am I wrong?

Then you have 2 conditions to hit, the reflex and the ac.

I think this is more suitable for Rogue's Special Abilities.