View Full Version : Completely Dysfunctional Handbook [3.5]
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Dysfunctional Rules are those which were not completely thought out. Most of the time the RAI is obvious, for some though it is far from obvious and there is little agreement over what the rules should be. In all cases a Houserule is required, in fact this is a good test of whether a rule is Dysfunctional: Do I need to make a Houserule for this?
This is a collation of the Dysfunctional Rules Collection as documented by a bundle of threads in the Playground. The Collection indexes entries by thread and page number. The collection is so large now that we've had to split into three parts over three pages.
It all started with Firechanter's "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection but we've had many more threads since then.
Discussions about dysfunctions should always go in the latest thread, not this one please.
"Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Thread 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214988)
Pages done: 1-50
"Wait again, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Thread 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267923)
Pages done: 1-50
Dysfunctional Rules III: 100% Rules-Legal, 110% Silly
Thread 3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283778)
Pages done: 1-50
Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
Thread 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304817)
Pages done: 1-50
Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
Thread 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333789)
Pages done: 1-51
Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata
Thread 6 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372964-Dysfunctional-Rules-VI-Magic-Circle-Against-Errata)
Pages done: 1-40
Dysfunctional Rules VII: Mordenkainen's Dysfunction
Thread 7 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?413407-Dysfunctional-Rules-VII-Mordenkainen-s-Dysfunction)
Pages done: None
Categories
Dysfunction Count
Part 1
Races
24
Templates
45
Part 2
Base Classes
73
Archetypes
6
Prestige Classes
116
Skills
56
Flaws
1
Traits
2
Feats
91
Part 3
Spells
188
Powers
15
Invocations
2
Utterance
17
Vestiges
4
Incarnum
7
Mystery
4
Manoeuvres and Stances
11
Equipment
102
Part 4
Combat
52
Monsters
119
Misc
112
Adventure
1
Total
966
GeneralCategories
All example characters
(Almost) all of these contain build errors
Shrodinger Prestige Classes
Taking the PrC means that you no longer qualify. There are many examples of these, though there is a rules debate as to whether this is always a problem.
Serpent Kingdoms
The entire book is full of dysfunctions. Pun Pun requires this book to work enough said
Potion table
Full of entries which were correct in 3.0 but aren't quite right in 3.5
Methodology
We are going to attempt to crowd-source this since the task is quite large. The following is a draft process, so it's probably worth someone trying it out on just a single page, in case we need to refine it.
Process
Stake your Claim Post which pages you are going to collate in this thread. This will avoid duplication of effort. Do not be too ambitious, you can always come back for a second bite of the cherry.
Mine your Dysfunctions Give a concise description of the Dysfunction. Add in a link to the original discussions (I think we can do this)
Refine your Dysfunctions Sort them by the categories listed below.
Deliver your Dysfunctions Either edit your original post, or create a new post.
Remember be concise
I will then attempt to collate the final results in the posts below.
WotC Publication list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16617440&postcount=761), by date of publication.
The Collection Part 1
All example characters are known to be wrong Thread 2, Page 29. 3.X
(Post any known exceptions here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283794))
Races
Race
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
SubtypesCan have the same sub-type twice623.5
Aasimar w/ Scion of HumanityAlways passes for human no matter what4483.PF
ChangelingOnly qualify for Able Learner and Chameleon via variant rule4243.5
Changeling+10 bonus to disguise somewhat misleading433.5
ChangelingDisguise not necessarily a class skill, unlike Speak Language5253.5
ChangelingMinor Change Shape is Disguise Self, which stacks with Disguise Self543.5
Constructs, with ConDon't have to breathe, but are still vulnerable to suffocation526,273.5
DarfellanMay or may not have aquatic and darfellan subtypes; may or may not have bonus on handle animal373.5
DiopsidText regarding wielding larger weapons is contradictory3333.5
Doppelganger <Racial class>Gives the change shape ability at level 3 which means that they suffocate, starve and contradict their own type before then573.5
DvatiToo, poorly defined, e.g. Dragonborn Dvati; 1 being or 2?2233.5
DvatiHave flank bonus, but cannot flank with themselves6143.5
ElfImmune to ghoul's touch, but not ghoul touch2203.PF
ElfElves sleep like everyone else2263.5
Gnolluse battleaxes and shortbows, but are not proficient with either513.5
HalflingHalfling luck bonus is not a luck bonus6223.PF
HellbredNever gains negative levels while wielding evil magic items6363.5
HumansAre not defined as Humanoid6203.5
Lupin (DrC)Monstrous Humanoid, but allegedly descended from one or another Humanoid race*2373.5
ShifterRazorclaw trait doesn't function like normal natural attacks313.5
SpellscaleCan gain bonus to Perform (Storytelling), which does not exist4143.5
Troglodyteare not proficient with their natural weapons, only simple513.5
VampireRestricted to a move or "attack action", which does not exist in 3.53343.5
Vishkanyawith the Subtle Appearance trait can appear more human than humans5123.PF
Templates
TemplateDescriptionThreadPagesVersion
any Wisdom-lessTurns you into an object553.5
Half X/Y or Half Y/XDo you apply Half X to Y or Half Y to X ?2123.5
InheritedInherited templates can be acquired several means520,223.5
SeveralIf type is changed, different knowledge skill for same information*323.5
BhaalspawnPCs get fewer benefits than NPCs550-513.5
BloodhulkDoes not care about base body5503.5
DeathlessAre partially vulnerable to Negative levels583.5
Demon-lordThis template's Unique ability can also be found on the fallen template563.5
DragonbornNon-humanoids can become dragonborn and gain humanoid type while retaining their original type6163.5
DragonspawnGives Death Throes, does not say they activate on death; Gives access to "dragon feats"3183.5
Dream ElementRemoves Wisdom, so you're an object now6143.5
DustformIs LA +2, but is Int-3173.5
Entropic CreatureCan be applied to inappropriate creatures5503.5
Fleshvigor(Undead)Rainment can eat663.5(Dr#315)
Half-DragonBreath weapon not depend on it's size4343.5
Half Fey and Half CelestialChildren may be a lot larger than their parents4423.5
Half-Fiend Template ClassSmite Good if Evil1423.5
Half-TrollMakes Outsiders Extraplanar6263.5
Incarnate ConstructCan remove the plating of a Warforged6273.5
LichGrants bonus to listen, even if ears have rotted away*2253.5
LichFear Aura incapable of affecting appropriate level PCs or animal companions2323.5
LycanthropeCan change type to things like CE, even though all animals are N 3153.5
LycanthropeCan infect targets and change their size5123.5
Mindless undeadCreatures with mindless undead templates can have class levels despite being mindless4323.5
Mineral WarriorIncreases Strength, So turning into a rock makes you swim better5423.5
NecropolitanHD unclear1413.5
NecropolitansNecropolitans are healed by positive energy and Inflicts, just not the Heal skill1423.5
Ravenous(Undead)Skeletons and Fossils can eat663.5(Dr#319)
Sanctified (BoED)Text explains what happens to tanar'ri, baatezu, yugoloth subtypes, but template cannot be applied to those subtypes2363.5
SanctifiedChanges target's alignement in the Law/Chaos plane, but also doesn't5483.5
Sentry Ooze Int +2 = 2443.5
Skeletal dragon and Zombie dragonretain any exceptional special qualities3393.5
Skeletal dragon and Zombie dragonLoses Special Attacks, but keeps Special Qualities; which may end up doing the same thing5153.5
Soulfused ConstructIs LA+1, but only applies to constructs with Int -, which are all unplayable.3173.5
SymbioteAllows swarms to be added; other problems343.5
Tainted MinionFear aura renders shaken with no duration373.5
Tauroid, LargeCan wield Large weapons without penalty1273.x
TelthorCreature cannot leave certain area, but LA+23143.5
Tieflings (variant)Tieflings don't change the language given6313.PF
Undead DragonCannot be Zombies, and yet they can5173.5
Unholy ScionGains ability scores and SLAs keyed off of HD when a foetus, no indication of how many HD a foetus has373.5
VampireCan be killed by a stake through the heart, no mention of how to do this3103.5
VampireVorpal weapon is stated to affect it, but doesn't say how3183.5
Vivacious CreatureCan be applied to inappropriate creatures5503.5
Voidmind (LM)Template makes immune to dominate effect it imposes4453.5
Xorvintaal DragonGives bonus on saving throws equal to age category3193.5
The Collection Part 2
Base Classes
Class
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
Initiator classesIf you have RHD taking a level of an initiator class reduces your IL5413.5
AlchemistDefoliant Bomb deals extra damage to plants, but is poison effect, which plants are immune to383.P
AlchemistCan make bombs which weigh more than their components533.PF
BarbarianGhost Rager Touch AC can be higher than AC453.PF
BardMusic doesn't care how good you are at perform5223.5
BardHalf-Elf racial substitution level [8th] replaces spell slots you don't have5243.5
Bard (Savage)is illiterate, unless you were illiterate already5223.5
BinderNo way to identify Vestiges5183.5
ClericLG clerics can get the Death and Destruction domains1413.5
ClericDomain spells are untyped3353.5
ClericDomain powers do not specify the descriptor4233.5
Clericwith the Artifice and Rune domains get Instant Summons, but can't use it643.PF
ClericCan spontaneously cast Obscure Object and Secure Corpse because they contain the word cure6123.5
Crusader (ToB)Doesn't qualify for Diehard*2363.5
Death MasterTrouble with Incorporeal minions2123.5
Death MasterAllows extraction of approx 1 pint of blood from a Diminutive or Fine creature*; allows wizard to copy spells from death masters' spellbooks instead of death masters from death masters363.5
Death MasterA Wizard can copy their spells into their spellbooks3433.5
Divine MindGets PP at level 1, but has nothing to spend them on3153.5
Dragonscale Husk ACFDoes not stack with any "feat, racial trait, or special ability" so does not stack with natural armour; does not list bonus type1313.5
Dread NecromancerFear aura has no listed duration12-53.5
Dread Necromancer(HoH)Has poison, a spell with a save keyed off of Wis in a class that casts off Cha*2213.5
Dread NecromancerCan cast corrupt spells only it has none2303.5
Dread NecromancerNegative energy burst can harm the DN2393.5
Dread NecromancerMay or may not have access to Fire in the Blood and Oath of Blood373.5
Drow ACFsDon't require you to be a Drow2133.5
DruidEagle Shaman archetype may not pick the Eagle domain5193.PF
Druid and RangerWoodland Stride makes you immune to damage (etc.) when in undergrowth5253.5
DuskbladeAre proficient in all armors, including every exotic armor3333.5
FactotumCunning Breach: Targets fail SR against Factotum's spells. SR tests are made by the caster, which Factotums aren't3483.5
FactotumCunning Surge grants a Std action, but takes a Std action to use5173.5
Favoured SoulKnowledge: Religion is not a class skill1103.5
Favored souldead level ability faith healing grant NI healing4223.5
Favoured SoulFavored of the Fiends ACF. Does not require evil alignment; yet it gives you evil claws5503.5
GunslingerCannot use their Gunslinger's Dodge deed when not wearing armor6193.PF
HealerMany Healers cannot ride their own unicorn623.5
InquisitorPossibly weaker as multiclass cleric than with no cleric levels*312PF
KnightKnight's Shield Block ability doesn't require use of a shield2133.5
KnightCode of Honour does not forbid poison, unlike Paladin's Code;Knights cannot deliver coups de grace*2313.5
Maho-tsukaiMaho metamagic assumes all metamagic feats change a spell's level643.5
Master ThrowerGets Snatch Arrows, but can't use it6403.5
MonkNo proficiency with unarmed strikes1;21;1-143.5
MonkThe Way of the Shackled Beast doesn't work1153.5
MonkTongue of the Sun and Moon doesn't specify being able to understand replies1383.x
MonkBoth can and cannot use unarmed strikes in flurry of blows2423.5
MonkCannot use bonus feats if they are not qualified3443.5
MonkUnarmed attacks being considered manufactured lead to various strangeness5513.5,3.PF
MonkFeign Death ACF. Does not prohibit taking actions5283.5
MonkWeapons are Confused6223.PF
PaladinRebuke dragons [ACF] is an evil action, so Paladin falls5283.5
RangerFeign Death ACF. Does not prohibit taking actions5283.5
RangerFavoured Enemy issues2493.5
RangerFavoured terrain boosts Knowledge: Geography when in the favoured terrain4343.PF
Rogue Halfling ACF [RotW]Ranged sneak attack is same as normal, melee -1d6, instead of trading melee for ranged12-53.5
RogueCan't sneak attack in shadows583.5
RogueFeign Death ACF. Does not prohibit taking actions5283.5
Sha'irNo actions specified to start spell retrieval1393.5
Sha'irStarting gear is not enough to summon gen, required for any casting2363.5
Soulbow Soulbow doesn't stack with Soulknife for special ability bonuses2493.5
Spirit ShamanSeveral class features reference Spirits, but SS doesn't have Knowledge Planes or Religion5383.5
Succubus racial classSummon Balor ill defined6113.5
SwordsageGains 6 times normal skills at first level instead of 4 times2213.5
SwordsageHas incorrect BA in chart323.5
Totemist etcNo proficiency with granted natural attacks163.5
Truenamer(ToM)Truenaming DCs too difficult to reasonably make without optimization1303.5
TruenamerDC to identify some mundane items is higher than non-magical items3163.5
TruenamerCapstone may let you keep saying your name as a free action and teleporting next to yourself; never specified what square you end up in even if used normally6293.5
Unarmed SwordsageAC Bonus doesn't apply in no armour113.5
WarshaperCan grow NI (at least 103) Natural attacks4263.5
Wild DefenderGain Smite Evil, no alignment restriction3233.5
Witch's Ice Tomb HexPoorly Written1343.P
WizardMulticlassing into Wizard creates a spell-book out of thin air543.5
WizardNeed not be literate5173.5
Wizard specializationMany spell trigger/spell completion items of banned schools are still usable493.5
Archetypes
Archetype
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
Armor Master: Deflective Shield (Ex)Assumes shields provide an armour bonus423.PF
Bard Sound Striker archetypeNo range limit on Wordstrike1383.PF
Brawler-Exemplar Grants Teamwork feats gained from Martial Flexibility. Martial Flexibility can't grant Teamwork feats5503.PF
Mutation WarriorSignature ability doesn't work6183.PF
Twlight SageMust prepare at least one necromancy spell of each spell level, but often can't. No defined penalty anyway6143.PF
Wanderer MonkLongstrider SLA doesn't stack with Fast Movement236PF
Prestige Classes
Class
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
variousAdvances spells/day but not CL or Spells Known4223.5
variousSome SLAs have no defined spell level413.5
various spellcasting classesDo not increase all casting variables5423.5
variousCaster Level, Spellcaster Level and Spellcasting Class undefined (Except see Yathrinshee*)67(10*)3.5
All truenaming PrCsDon't advance truespeak ability6293.5
Acolyte of the FistCan be taken by characters without Fists5123.5
Anima MageGets Metamagic vestige with no listed uses, until the next level5483.5
Apostle of PeaceEntry mentions use of protective magic items; character is prevented by Vow of Poverty, a pre-req*373.5
Arcane ArcherDoesn't have Knowledge:Arcana as a class skill1123.5
Arcane TricksterDoes not advance CL553.5
Arcane HierophantCompanion Familiar requires you to dismiss your familiar; but only temporarily683.5
ArchmageDoes not advance CL553.5
AssassinCasts spells as a bard, with no exception for silence1493.5
AssassinCan only apply poison to blades weapons safely5393.5
Assassin and ShadowdancerCan be easier to find at night5193.5
Beloved of ValarianMany Beloved of Valarians cannot ride their own unicorn613.5
Black Flame ZealotRequires Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Kukri); Kukri is a martial weapon443.5
BlackguardFiendish Servant has more SR from template than from class4163.5
Bladesinger(CWar)Gives ability to cast quickened spell without changing casting time2213.5
Blighter (CDiv)Have Speak With Dead Animal, but no way to actually communicate with animals lacking a language (all of them, in short)2163.5
Blood MagusCan be taken by someone who doesn't have Blood5123.5
Celestial MysticPre-req Vow of Abstinence prevents casting identify due to material component12-53.5
Chaotician (PlH)Babble 1/day with no listed duration2203.5
Consecrated HarrierDefenders of the Faith version describes how they prepare and cast spells; CDiv version does not5103.5
ContemplativeMystic Union capstone grants damage resistance3393.5
Corrupt AvengerFear aura renders shaken with no duration; gets aura that "unnerves", -4 penalty on things stacks with shaken373.5
Deepstone SentinelMountain Fortress Stance flawed interaction with Stone Dragon stance3443.5
DemonologistGains a Quasit which can eat any other familiar5333.5
DiabolistGains an Imp which can eat any other familiar5333.5
Disciple of AshardalonBecomes Outsider at 12th level, becoming vulnerable to frightful presence*363.5
Disciple of XlHas +8 BAB at level 10, should be 7443.5
Disciple of the WordCan make a Truespeak check to bypass DR, but no information about alignment based DR6163.5
Divine CrusaderIgnores nature of patron Deity5323.5
Divine MindPain and Suffering Mantle gives +1 on weapon damage rolls against "wounded" foes, does not define wounded393.5
Dragon DiscipleDisqualifies self as capstone113.5
Dragonborn paladinMay not know who to smite2273.5
Drunken MasterDeals extra 1d12 with improvised weapons, even if improvised weapons are heavy enough to deal more damage3113.5
Eldritch DiscipleMakes healing ranged touch attacks, but no obvious provision to auto-accept those2103.5
Eldritch KnightDoesn't advance CL except that it does4223.5
ElocaterImmune to falling damage?283.PF
ElocaterSlows native fly speeds to 10'/round283.5
Eternal BladeUseless class feature gives Uncanny Dodge in all armour, but this is already the case12-53.5
Eye of Gruumsh and Blessed of GruumshTaking both makes you blind, well maybe ?5243.5
Exotic Weapon MasterTwin Exotic Weapon Fighting is somewhat over generous5333.5
Fiend of blasphemySponsor cultist ability has no mechanical effect*6103.5
Fiend-BloodedInappropriate pre-reqs1423.5
Firestorm BerserkerInner Inferno can Incinerate the Berserker, even though he is immune to fire5143.5
Firestorm BerserkerInner Inferno can do Con damage, even if you have Con 5143.5
Foe Hunter (Masters of the Wild)Misspelled as "Toe Hunter"*3203.5
Frenzied BerserkerDeathless Frenzy ability doesn't make you immune to non-lethal damage1143.5
HeartwarderRequires Spell focus (Enhancement), but grants a restricted version of it later5293.0
Horizon WalkerUnderground Terrain Mastery is a bit strange6193.PF
Invisible BladeHas Innuendo as a class skill4253.5
Jade Phoenix MageDoes not progress pre-req skills2303.5
Justice of Weald and WoeSaves are abnormally progressed4173.5
Kensai (CW)Instill ability can push BAB above normal cap2403.5
Knight of the ThornRequires all Martial Weapon Proficiency feats4263.5
Knight of the Sacred SealChanges type to outsider, referencing monk class feature which does not change type4153.5
Lantern BearerA Half-orc with the Racial Heritage: Elf feat qualifies, but an Half elf needs an elven sponsor5383.PF
Legendary CaptainCan reroll failed roll, but must be done before it is declared a success or failure by DM4143.5
Lion of TalisidDysfunctional Wild Shape2293.0
Magelord MasteryCapstone is already possessed213.5
Master of many formsGains Ooze split ability3373.5
Master of many FormsLanguage confusion4243.5
Master TransmogrifistHas abilities that work on favoured shapes assumed by spells such as alter self and shapechange, former cannot be used to assume a favoured shape, latter cannot be cast by MT373.5
Moon GuardianGrants Natural Spell to Lycanthropes443.5
Nar DemonbinderCan cast all equivalents of blasphemy, may affect self or familiar4163.5
NecrocarnateNecrocarnum Soulshield has no listed duration3133.5
NecrocarnateConfused class features if you are multiclassed with two incarnum classes543.5
Order of the Bow InitiatePre-req feat that's useless with main feature, class feature that's inferior to one granted at same level by usual entry base class233.x
Order of the Bow InitiateTerrible skills, but usual entry and customary use requires lots of skills233.5
Order of the Cockatrice CavalierChallenge ability only works on self5473.PF
OsteomancerShapes your bones, but does not require that you have any5123.5
Pale MasterUndead Graft prosthetic arm gives, among other things, bonus to Jump, resisting trips, etc2383.5
Paragnostic InitiateDiscern Weakness uses wrong knowledge3463.5
Pure Legion EnforcerMade to stamp out divine casting. Gets divine SLAs525PF
Pure Legion EnforcerGets bonus to determine if a spell is divine, but there's no check to tell if a spell is arcane or divine to apply it to525PF
PyrokineticistHeat Death ability can kill (fire) subtyped creatures1273.5
PyrokineticistNimbus ability, sets you on fire and increases your Charisma5503.5
Radiant Servant of PelorIs worse at healing at levels 6-9 than at earlier levels3153.5
Rage MageCan quicken spells without changing casting time483.5
Razmiran PreistSpiritual weapon makes it easier to tell that Razmir isn't a god5303.PF
Reaping MaulerCapstone grants save-or-die that could be accomplished easier and faster with CdG and auto-sleep173.5
Renegade MastermakerGives (Living Construct) as capstone; may disqualify itself if it becomes Construct (Living Construct)2383.5
Ruby Knight VindicatorMust spend standard to gain swift113.5
Runescarred Berserker(UA)Impossible to qualify for223
Sacred FistCode of conduct forbids them from using weapons (including unarmed strike)2373.5
Sand ShaperCan make items in negative time2203.5
Scarlet CorsairFrightful Lunge renders target shaken with no duration373.5
Seeker of the Misty IsleGives bonus to non-class skills2243.5
Shade HunterRequires FE(shades), shades do not exist2133.5
Shadow Sun NinjaImmediate action to absorb cold damage allows already-used swift action next turn to shoot fire113.5
Shadow Sun NinjaDarkness in Light ability is a standard action, therefore useless3363.5
Shadow Sun NinjaRequires two or three manoeuvres to satisfy it's prereqs ?5263.5
Shadow Thief of AmnBonus feat list at 2nd includes prerequisite2403.5
Shaper of FormDragon Compendium, Renaissance ability is poorly defined2263.5
SoulbowPhase Arrow is stopped by wall of smoke, but not brick wall4203.5
SpelldancerCan enhance spells from the School of Invocation5483.5
SpherewalkerCan turn into a swarm while casting normally, only they suffer the usual penalties for casting from inside a swarm6163.PF
StormlordTable gives "Elemental Conflagration," text disagrees3163.5
Sublime ChordPrepares spells just like a Sorcerer5343.5
SurvivorClass from savage species can counter its own pre-reqs*2263.5
Tainted(from Dragon #302) is another Schrφdinger's PrC2283.5
Tenebrous ApostateUmbral Body usage326,323.5
Tenebrous ApostateTenebrous grants TU so no actual Cleric requirement413.5
Thief-AcrobatUncanny dodge, but only while climbing or balancing*233.5
Topaz Guardian(LoM)NPC has 10 levels of a 5 level class2213.5
Totem RagerGrants literacy2173.5
Ur-PriestDisqualifies self113.5
Vermin LordTable gives "Pincer Claws," no such ability3163.5
VigilanteAllows feint as a move action, does not have bluff as a class skill2243.5
Walker in the WasteAllows for creation of Salt Mummies, with no mention of how, with what, out of what, or how quickly393.5
WarshaperCan grow an arbitrary number of natural attacks1153.5
Warforged JuggernautExpert Bull Rush can break down doors, but not walls; no matter what they are made of693.5
WavekeeperTable gives 9/10ths Casting, Text says nothing3173.5
Wild MagesCan cast spells with a CL of 0 or less613.5
Skills
Skill
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
Size Penalties and BonusesApply to Hide, but not Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, etc*1303.5
Untrained skillsPH is ambiguous on the subject of untrained skills*2263.5
BalanceThere are no size penalties; toads and the Tarrasque have the same difficulty balancing on a given 1-foot wide beam1;626;213.x
ConcentrationMust make concentration check to manifest powers if you are under the effect of one of your own powers5433.5
ConcentrationManifesting whilst paralyzed provokes, unless you make a concentration check5433.5
ConcentrationWhat makes you "Threatened" or "Distracted" enough to stop you taking 10?6363.5
CraftCertain items can be crafted in infinite quantities in 8 hours for no cost1103.x
Craft1/3 price for raw materials may not cover cost of materials273.PF
Decipher ScriptIlliterate Barbarian can make checks with no penalty243.5
Disable DeviceSkill function specifically tied to Rogue class4263.PF
DisguiseNo penalties for different body types5113.5
DiplomacyDiplomancer1153.xForgeryIlliterate Barbarian can make checks with no penalty. Forgery isn't trained-only.243.5
HideTwo diminutive creatures are incapable of finding each other*12-53.x
Hiding/Moving SilentlyConfused rules when at full speed4343.5
JumpUntrained Commoner with 10 Str can jump 10 feet from standing start one time in 20183.x
JumpCan jump as part of a free action1203.P
JumpCan jump an arbitrary distance1203.P
JumpIf hit with conditions like daze mid-jump, you are stuck in the air3173.5
JumpSwim speeds and jump interact weirdly, you can jump while flying417-193.5
JumpBig men can't jump5133.5
JumpRunning start does not have to be in the same direction as the Jump5433.5
Knowledge checks to IDHumans can't be identified by other humans without ranks in Knowledge (Local)12-53.x
Knowledge checks to IDKnowing a Red Dragon breathes fire is more difficult the more powerful it is, etc12-53.x
Knowledge checks to IDDC's confused by Templates6153.5
Knowledge (Arcana)DC 10 to identify an intelligent item4223.5
Knowledge (History)DC 15 check to predict the future1133.x
Knowledge (Local)Knowledge(Local) is not a class skill for Commoners1223.x
Knowledge (Local)Commoners get lost in their home town1413.x
Know (Nobility and Royalty)Very few people know who their parents are1213.x
Knowledge: ReligionDoesn't cover Angels, Demons or the place you go when you die, the're all Knowledge: Planes563.5
Knowledge (the planes)DC 15 check to know what plane you're on1133.P
ListenInverse square law is linear4213.5
ListenNormal conversations are impossible1153.x
Lucid DreamingSeveral dysfunctions533.5
Open LockDisable Device can open locks1353.x
PerformDoesn't have any ACP so dancing in plate mail is fine5373.5
PerformVersatile Performance feat allows you to fly and do acrobatics in plate mail5373.PF
ProfessionNo way to key off other ability scores, even if it would make sense (Accountant, Miner, etc)1463.x
Profession (executioner)Unclear on a failed attempt if it provokes AoO, and from whom3313.5
Profession(Miner)Governs how far you can dig, this is Wis based4303.5
RideAble to control others' mounts in combat without riding them*3223.5
Ride, epicFailing a DC 50 check for free-action control automatically allows move-action control with no check3213.5
Sleight of HandCan be used to conceal Spellcasting, foes detect whispers with Spot*3133.5
Sleight of HandFoes can notice theft with Spot, but cannot stop it from happening3133.5
Sleight Of HandCannot conceal non-weapon items, even just weapons which are too small for you6213.5
Speak LanguageAnimals can speak (well maybe)1413.x
SpellcraftCan identify all discernible illusions with a fairly low DC*2403.5
SpotInverse square law is linear4213.5
SpotIt's impossible to see the Sun, moon, stars, etc1;22-5,21;23.5
SurvivalAnimals don't generally have enough ranks to find their dens or avoid predators1403.5
SwimCannot swim in Acid or Lava, but you can swim in Ice1153.x
SwimUnaffected by anything held in your hands unless it has an ACP or enough weight to encumber you1273.x
TrackDC 60 to identify creatures by tracks1,218,45-463.5
TumbleCan Tumble while wearing tower shield, maybe even while gaining total cover2393.PF
Use Magic DeviceIlliterate Barbarian can make checks to active scrolls with no penalty243.x
Sudden Draw Skill TrickOnly usable if you threaten an area without your hidden weapon3233.5
Flaws
Flaw
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
Hot-Blooded and Cold-BloodedCan take both at the same time5413.5
Traits
Trait
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
Muscle of society+2 to break down doors, but not walls; no matter what they are made of693.PF
Twinned PresenceSize bonus to intimidate from your Eidolon, even if it's out of sight6153.PF
Feats
Feat
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
[aberrant]Aberrations cannot take [aberrant] feats, in fact only humanoids can4323.5
severalMany feats granting skill points don't allow you to spend them6373.5
All Devotion featsTU attempts grant additional daily uses435-363.5
Air HeritageCan take Hover feat, even if you cannot fly1203.5
Ancestral RelicCan be applied to an existing magic item3403.5
Animal FriendGives Wild empathy bonus for creatures which are immune to Wild empathy5433.5
Battle JumpCan charge in the middle of a charge1193.5
Blazing Berserker and Frozen BerserkerGains fire and cold subtypes2113.PF
Blind-FightKeeps your Dex bonus to AC against an invisible attacker, but not when you're blinded543.5
Brew PotionNo way to make oils113.5
Celestial ServantGrants a template which gives CR based SR to Animal companions, who don't have CR5503.PF
Chain PowerCan't be used with any power573.5
Channel ChargeGets harder to use with Staffs the higher level you are513.5
Channel the GiftCan fuel free metamagic4353.PF
Corrupt ArcanaCan give access to Sanctified spells6113.5
Corrupted Wild ShapeSuperfluous3493.5
CraftingSidestep Epic enhancement limit*1353.5
Craft WandWand of Identify requires crafter to drink 50 glasses of wine in 1 day213.5
Deceptive IlluminationSays class level for a racial ability6133.5
DiehardDoesn't keep you from falling unconscious at negative HP112,153.5
Double HitCan make an AoO with off hand weapon even if it's out of reach4293.5
Double Wand Wielder/Dual DorjeOverride casting time to always be a total of a full-round action4493.5
Dream of Perception (SoS)Dreamtouched state ended by any augury3433.5
Eldritch ClawsAre always 1' long, no matter what size the weilder is5413.5
Elusive TargetWeird interactions with the Grappling rules6283.5
Equipment trickSeveral possible dysfunctions, E.g. carrying an Anvil helps you Climb, well maybe6393.5
Escape routeMakes you immune to AoOs from movement433.PF
Extraordinary ConcentrationAllows you to cast a spell when maintaining concentration on another, only it doesn't3453.5
Extra PanacheIncreases Panache indefinately5503.5
Fine Wild shape [Epic]*Few stats for Fine sized animals3403.5
Fling AllyCan affect incorporeal allies5393.5
Focused Lexicon(ToM)Increases DCs for utterances by 1, not save DCs1323.5
Furious InhalationPlayers allowed to choose that it ends however it benefits them the most3353.5
Graft FleshYou must be of the specified type to apply Grafts to others6233.5
Heighten SpellCannot be used with Divive Metamagic6233.5
Heighten SpellCan be used as a metamagic cost reducer maybe435-363.5
Hindering OpportunistFeat helps opponent4333.5
Illithid HeritageCan be, or is always, inappropriate6253.5
Improved Combat ReflexesInfite loop if opponent has Epic combat reflexes and no one has Improved sunder6353.5
Improved FamiliarGrants a template which gives CR based SR to Familiars, who don't have CR5503.PF
Improved Fiendish ServantGives you a doubly fiendish servant4223.5
Improved Manoeuvrability (Drac)Tougher prereqs than Improved Flight (CAdv) but no better benefits1273.5
Improved Precise ShotAutohit1233.5
Improved Share Spells*Doesn't require Share Spells, and other issues6203.PF
Intimidating StrikeCan't be used in a charge473.5
Ineluctable EchoPossibly infinite loop4333.5
Inhuman ReachGives reach with all weapons, not merely those held4493.5
Invest ArmourIncreases armour bonus by 3 indefinitely3;614;383.5
Ki*Ki feats specify bonus feat rather than Monk bonus feat3423.5
KnockbackCan be used with missile weapons, also may effect a free teleport5343.5
LeadershipSpecial Creatures as Cohorts: special mounts get +2 and -21353.5
Mage SlayerAutomatically informs spellcasters of their inability to cast defensively, even if they were unaware of the enemy483.5
Magic in the BloodIf Dragonborn Drow or similar, grants additional uses of missing SLAs12-53.5
Martial StrikeAllows infinite healing2283.5
Mercurial Strike (DrMag 310)Triggers when you get an unarmed AoO, but you can't make AoOs while unarmed233.5
Mercurial Strike (DrCmp)As Sudden Draw, but must be unarmed3233.5
Monk VowOnly works for Monk's Ki Pool6253.PF
Mythic Path abilitiesMost are badly worded453.PF
Obscure Personal TruenameMakes it harder to speak your own truename623.5
Paralyzing FistsTriggers when you make two Stunning Fist attacks in a round, which is not allowed unless you also have an unrelated feat5433.5
Pawn of the Great GameOnly works up until level 105363.5
Planar TouchstoneExpends the required object which stop this from working634-353.5
Power AttackYou can Power attack with a regular gauntlet, but not a Spiked one6293.5
Precocious ApprenticeAllows access by School rather than Spell list3383.5
Precocious ApprenticeMulti-classing abuse3383.5
Psicrystal Affinity(XPH)No way to recover destroyed psicrystal without retrain/DCFS1303.5
Racial HeritageElves and Half elves are not related. Same for [Half]Orcs5163.PF
RequiemBardic music works on undead, but only for half as long as you play6303.5
Ride-By Attack/Spirited ChargeOnly triggers when charging, but mount is charging, not rider12-53.5
Ride-By AttackCharge requirements make riding by geometrically impossible12-53.5
Ring the Golden BellAllows Grapple at Range etc.4373.5
Robilar's GambitCan only provoke once3293.5
Self-SufficientDoesn't actually make one particularly self-sufficient*113.5
Shock WaveTail attack, but no tail required5113.5
Song of the DeadSpells prepared with this feat become necromantic, spontaneous ones don't4303.5
Summon Good MonsterGrants Diehard to summons, but summons are dismissed upon reaching 0 HP anyway322PF
Superior Unarmed StrikeOne level of Monk stips this from scaling3423.5
SwarmfightingHas rules for creatures smaller than Small, which cannot take the feat4163.5
Throw AnythingAllows you to throw throwable items (Unarmed Strikes, Shield and Armor Spikes, etc)3313.5
Titan BloodlinePixie with the Titan Bloodline can wield a gargantuan Warhammer223.5
Tomb-Tainted SoulDoes not explicitly prevent negative energy from harming you4483.5
Tormtor SchoolExploitable:take no penalty when making a melee attack with a javelin5103.5
Truename TrainingWeird interaction with Able Learner5;651;13.5
Undead MeldshaperAllows undead to take Incarnum classes, but not Incarnum feats4123.5
Unseen ArrowDeliver arrows with a melee touch attack3323.5
Up The WallsRequires you to end your turn on a horizontal surface, or you fall653.5
Vow of AbstinenceGives bonus on saves against poisons and drugs, lost if one fails save against drug*2213.5
Vow of PurityPrevents you from casting all manner of spells2283.5
Weapon groupsDo not contain any Nets663.5
Wild CohortGives no way of replacing dead Cohort3173.5
Willing Deformity (Hands) and (Mouth)Deal same damage for all size categories363.5
The Collection Part 3
Spells
Spell
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
anySeveral spells have invalid targets5233.5
anyYou can't cast a spell unless you have the min CL required, which is not defined55-63.5
List definitions"Paladin spell", "Wizard spell", and so on are poorly-defined*1363.x
variousArea can be larger than Range5293.5
variousSpellcasting Stat ill defined5293.x
variousSpecifically target undead with a Fort save, which the undead are immune to5443.5
EpicRediculous number of dysfunctions3.5
ResearchCantrips can be researched instantly663.PF
ResearchResearch rules grant Sorcerers infinite Spells Known663.PF
Sanctified spellsCannot be cast by non vancian casters, even gods6113.5
Sanctified spellsCan be used by non vancian casters with a scroll, but not via other items6113.5
Sanctified spellsNeutral characters can cast Sanctified spells433.5
Diamond Material ComponentMaterial component variable in size1243.5
Vile SpellsSome require both Undead and Fiend3153.5
Ability RipCan turn a creature to wight673.5
Aboleth CurseUndefined material component673.5
Absorb mind/bodyRequires you to consume the focus2293.5
AfflictionDoes extra damage against evil undead, except undead are immune1433.5
AlarmIsn't tripped by 'astral' creatures543.5
Alter SelfTurning incorporeal means you cannot move. Weird sub-type issues also573.5
Anger of the Noonday SunTargets sighted creatures, but has rules for affecting oozes/fungi2173.5
Animate with the SpiritUndefined effects realting to innate abilities6103.5
Antimagic FieldDoesn't affect melee attacks made from outside the field, but does affect ranged attacks1383.x
Antimagic FieldCan be smaller than the caster553.5
Apparent MasterIs meant to be used on golems. Spell Resistance:Yes5293.PF
Aspect of the WolfType changes to animal, but retain mental abilities4213.5
AwakenAnimates Trees, but gives them no constitution score2213.5
Awaken UndeadAllows skeleton to regain abilities that depend on organs*2433.5
Baleful PolymorphCreatures with shapechanger subtype can revert back to natural form, but lose subtype if changed2;332;383.5
Banishment/DismissalLesser Planetouched are affected, but it has no effect1203.5
Banishment/DismissalDismissal is lower level than Banishment but can be more powerful2143.5
Bestow Greater CurseTransmutation, instead of Necromancy2173.5
Bigby's Grasping HandCan start a Grapple, but not much else5423.5
Blade of Pain and FearBlade is always 3' long, no matter what size the weilder is5413.5
BlizzardAOE exceeds range of the spell3353.5
Bone ChillAffects undead, but Fort negates*3183.5
Breath of lifeAssumes that you died by loss of HP6343.PF
Burial Blessing[Good] but can be used by Evil clerics683.0
Cape of WaspsHas a lot of apparently-unintended drawbacks6163.PF
Charm PersonSets attitude to friendly, even if it was more positive before483.PF
Chill TouchInstantaneous/Permanant duration543.5
CloneA Lich could create NI copies of itself54,83.5
Cloud of the AchaieraiCan be smaller than the caster553.5
Cold SnapActually increases temperature (by a negative penalty)*1273.P
Combust (SpC)Can set fire to objects over 25lbs/level3283.5
ConjurationsCannot summon incorporeal creatures since no surface can support them5393.5
Contact Other PlaneDo you have to take one INT/CHA check, or one INT/CHA check per question?6363.5
Control WaterAbusable on land3443.5
Crack iceAffects Ice creatures whatever they are ?4403.5
Create Chosen OneSorcerer 5, Wizard 5; but only evil Wizards can cast this spell683.5
Cry of YsgardSummons 2d4 Bariaur defenders, but controls at most 45513.5
Curse of Ill Fortune, massIs a necromancy spell, but Curse of Ill Fortune is transmutation393.5
Curse of Pain ETERNAL(Dr#300) Duration: 10 minutes/level433.5
Damnation StrideDim Door + Fireball with a duration of 1 min/level4233.PF
Dance of Kindled DesiresVictim will sacrifie their life, except that they won't5283.PF
Dark WayRAI for bridges, can make walls, effect exceeds range393.5
DarknessCan brighten an area by setting light level to precisely shadowy illumination12-53.5
DarkseedAffects plant creatures without Wis and Cha, in which case they are not creatures5193.0
Deathwatch[Evil], on Good-only Healer's/Slayer of Domiel's list, where it can't be cast113.5
Deafening blastDeafens caster as well as enemies353.5
Delay PoisonDelay Poison counters Neutralize Poison1193.P
Disguise selfDisguise self cam make tiny creatures appear two dimensional223.5
DisintegrateDoesn't work on trees or other living objects12-53.5
DisintegrateDoesn't kill you just turns you into dust5353.5
DisintegrateTurns incorporeal targets into corporeal dust5353.5
Elemental FamiliarCan be cast on any creature433.5
Energize PotionPotion is the material component, and thus destroyed5343.5
Enlargedoes not change your speed3443.5
Ethereal MountWorks on any plane, but only has a move on the ethereal593.5
Expeditious retreatis better at boosting Jump checks than the jump spell until you hit CL 56113.5
Expeditious retreatBoosts Jump more for slower characters6113.5
Explosive RunesDamages "anyone close enough to read them" so can damage creatures very far away if they have spyglasses or the like*2443.5
Feline DistractionTable poorly defined6133.5
Flame BladeBlade is always 3' long, no matter what size the weilder is5413.5
Flame DaggerBlade is always 3' long, no matter what size the weilder is5413.5
Footsteps of the DivineUnknown duration3493.5
ForcewardIs stationary and yet moves with you5413.5
Freedom of MovementHas a somatic component, caster cannot free self2213.5
Gaseous FormCan't get you out of a grapple5183.PF
GateCannot call outsiders from their own plane2143.5
Geas/QuestAverage damage inflicted if prevented from acting is less than damage healed every day*3133.5
GemjumpYou don't have to touch the creatures you take with you3383.5
GlibnessHas no verbal component for casting by a Bard3333.5
Giant VerminDoes not specifically make vermin Monstrous, no stats for non-Monstrous2243.5
Giant's WrathPebbles are a material component, and thus destroyed5343.5
Gust of WindEffect can exceed range3103.5
Gust of WindAffects flying creatures, but not jumping creatures3173.5
(Un)HallowCan apply detection spells in an area but do not define where the detected information goes4493.PF
HardeningUnlimited stacking3263.5
HasteDodge bonuses are never granted by spells, except Haste3483.5
HealDoes heal undead after all, or does it? A Paradox553.5
Heat metal, Chill metalUnattended objects get no save, but it only targets attended objects5493.5,3.PF
Heat metal, Chill metalUnattended objects have no size limitation5493.5,3.PF
Heat metal, Chill metalExtend spell would cause weird effects5493.5,3.PF
HesitateFree extra save1413.5
Incorporeal NovaCan "destroy" living creatures instead of killing4433.5
Incorporeal novaTargets undead with a Death effect, to which they are immune6253.5
Inflict/Cure X WoundsDoesn't mention needing a touch attack to deal damage*283.5
Instant ArmorCan leave you barefoot533.PF
Instant ArmorInconsistent with Swift Girding, if characters wear clothes under armor513-143.PF
Invoke MagicDoesn't actually say it can be cast in dead/anti-magic*23,263.5
Jumping Leg GraftGives penalty to movement speed due to mismatched-ness, penalty only increases with two of them*3163.5
Lava SplashDeals 1d4 points of fire damage per level, max 15d65493.5
Leomund's Secure ShelterShadowcast Leomund's Secure Shelter usable in combat1223.5
LiveoakAmbiguous what happens to trees when released3163.5
Luminous ArmorGives a -4 penalty on melee attacks, but not missile. Also works on Blind opponents5323.5
Mage's Magnificent MansionWhat happens if it is dispelled5323.5
Magic JarDo spells stay with the original body, or the new one ?523.5
Magnetic FieldIgnores worn metal items, unless they are Armour5413.PF
Marked ObjectRanger spell, but they can't use it683.5
Meld into Stone (PHB)Doesn't give you the ability to breathe in stone2383.PF
Memorize PagePage is undefined5513.PF
Memory of FunctionMends things, temporarily5463.PF
MiasmaDoes nothing unless you try to hold your breath5263.5
Mind BlankUnclear if it blocks True Seeing ? Various interpretations5473.5
Mind BlankWorks against some surprising Divinations4373.5
Mirror MoveSpell can consume armour, entire oceans as material components2243.5
Modify MemoryCan remove a Page of information, but is defined by time5513.PF
Mycontil's Last ResortCan be smaller than the caster553.5
Mystic AegisPermanent duration SR543.5
Necromantic SingularityArea is larger than Range553.5
Negative/Positive Energy AuraRange personal but doesn't effext caster5263.5
Oath of BloodSignificantly cheaper than Create Undead, Geas may no longer be in effect*3133.5
Opalescent glare[SpC] Infinite duration2303.5
Planar Binding lineTargeting rules require unspecified exceptions to standards1463.x
Planar FamiliarCleric spell which works on a class-feature companion, which Clerics don't have6103.5
PolymorphWeird interaction with Shapechangers changing back613.5
Polymorph etcDisallow changing into forms smaller than Fine, but there aren't any such possible, because Fine includes everything smaller than Diminutive2393.5
PolymorphConfusion over Disguise skill4263.5
PolymorphMultiple dysfunctions5153.PF
PolymorphVery Human Centric5203.PF
PolymorphMundane items continue to function when melded into your form5203.PF
Polymorph Any ObjectCan give targets ability scores even if they are null445PF
Polymorph Any ObjectDuration mechanics1183.5
Polymorph Any ObjectCannot turn objects into creatures, and yet it can3273.5
Polymorph Any ObjectCreature bodies created using PaO have no HD4123.5
Ray of enfeeblementStops your strength falling below 13263.5
Reducedoes not change your speed3443.5
Remorseless CharmAffects creature you show painting to, painting is material component and so is consumed3183.5
Repair X DamageNewest version only allows healing if target has >0 hp, so no usage on disabled living constructs2413.5
Resist EnergyRequires a DF, even for a Wizard3393.5
Revive UndeadTarget is "destroyed undead", but requires "intact body"283.5
Revive UndeadCan't revive incorporeal undead (nothing to touch?)293.5
Revive undeadTargets have to be willing5503.5
Righteous MightDR does not work against evil5113.5
Sanctify the Wicked (BoED)Applies a template to any evil creature, even those that the template cannot be applied to2363.5
Sanctify the WickedSeveral dysfunctions51-23.5
Sanctify the WickedChanges target's alignement in the Law/Chaos plane, but also doesn't5483.5
Scimitar of SandBlade is always 3' long, no matter what size the weilder is5413.5
Seed of UndeathIs not an [Evil] spell*4163.5
Seething Eyebane (BoVD)Does not block gaze attacks3253.5
Shadow ConjurationDouble 20% reduction on Non-lethal and ability damage413.5
Shadow TrapHas meaningless Reflex save4323.0
Share ShapeDoesn't work on Familiars because Familiars are never animals6383.PF
Share ShapeDoesn't work on Animal Companions if you have a Familiar6383.PF
ShatterDoesn't define what happens to certain Objects, when targeted directly65-63.5
ShieldbearerCan travel infinite distance to protect a creature instantly3143.5
Shivering TouchIt's damage has a duration2473.5
SlowUnclear what is meant by "normal" speed383.5
Snake's SwiftnessCan be used to prevent creatures from making more than one additional attack per round2243.5
Soul ShacklesConfused targeting4323.0
Speak Rock to Mud (MoI)Misspells rock as "ruck"3203.5
Spell Worm<Epic Seed>Conflict between IC and OOC knowledge523.5
SteeldanceFocus is the same as Target, range is medium=disarm, no save5283.5
Storm of BladesFree Artefacts and can destroy artefacts with ease so long as they are swords543.PF
Summon InstrumentDuration confusion533.5
Surmount AfflictionTemporarily alleviates numerous conditions many of which would prevent you casting it6183.PF
Swift GirdingInconsistent with Instant Armor, if characters wear clothes under armor513-143.PF
Telepathic BondCan be put on ghouls, treants, inevitables, etc*473.PF
Toothed TentacleRequires the Swift Concentration skill trick if you want the spell to work613.5
Touch of the Sea spellGives the target a Swim speed and lets the caster use the Run action while swimming6363.PF
Transplant VisageMultiple Dysfunctions5153.PF
Trap the SoulWorks on creatures without a Soul5123.5
Trap the SoulDestroys the Gem in casting5253.5
True ResurrectionCan bring back creatures whose bodies have been destroyed, Range:Touch583.5
Uncanny ForethoughtAllows casting of spells as full round action, even if normal casting time is longer2323.5
Undeath after DeathCauses application of Crypt spawn template, which is undefined663.5
Vermin ShapeCan't be dismissed, unlike other [polymorph]49PF
Versatile WeaponFunctions just like GMW, only it doesn't5293.PF
Vestigewrack (ToM)Spell text overrides statblock, changing to a Fort save, which is then ignored by all targets3223.5
Wall of ForceMay not block LoE for everything*4453.PF
Wall of Sand (Sandstorm)Adjacent target inside wall cannot be attacked463.5
Wall of WaterNo listed height4263.5
WebUnclear what happens to creature who enters web after it was cast383.5
Whip of ThornsWhip is the material component, and thus destroyed5343.5
Wind WallTerm "massive ranged weapons" is not defined553.5
Winged WatcherMakes your Int 2, which turns you into an NPC6113.5
WishCan wish for magical item without regards to cost383.5
Power
Power
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
Bend RealityDisallows imitating spells, but then lists XP cost for doing so with costly material components1123.5
Bend RealityCan Duplicate any other power (but not a spell), StP Erudite can make any spell into a power5383.5
Call WeaponryCan include siege weapons4433.PF
Compression/Expansiondoes not change your speed3443.5
Crystal BodyCannot use this power for 4 levels after getting it3363.5
Dimension DoorCan be used as move action, but cannot act afterwards2313.5
FusionFusion Confusions5193.5
Heavy EarthImmune to being knocked prone4213.5
Lion's ChargeLasts forever, doesn't grant Pounce2273.5
Opportunity PowerWeird interaction with Stand Still5183.5
Reality RevisionDisallows imitating spells, but can revive the dead by imitating a spell1123.5
Reality RevisionCan Duplicate any other power (but not a spell), StP Erudite can make any spell into a power5383.5
Telekinetic ManoeuvreBull rush option doesn't specify exceptions to normal mis-targeting rules, so it's possible to redirect melee attacks made against the target to you at long distances1473.x
Teleportation CircleCan't be made permanent with an Incarnate power, but it can be with a Permanency Spell5373.5
Wild SurgeFree Augmentation4373.5
Invocations
Invocation
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
Brimstone BlastLimits subsequent fire damage to 2d6 / round1223.5
Eldritch GlaiveDo you add Strength ? Can you Power Attack ? The rules are unclear6113.5
Utterance
UtteranceDescriptionThreadPagesVersion
All LCT/LPMOddly low level (eg Gate at 4th)*6293.5
Analyse ItemMay or may not reveal the hidden properties of cursed items.6293.5
Analyse ItemDoes and doesn't work as Identify.6293.5
Archer's EyeShoot things you can't see without penalty.6293.5
Ether ReforgedLasts forever and can't be dispelled, causing eternally ethereal opponents and allies that can attack them.6293.5
Hidden TruthDoesn't tell you which knowledge check it's useful for.6293.5
Hidden Truth (R)Doesn't last long enough to use properly.*6293.5
Incarnation of Angels (N/R)Can banish creatures to nowhere in particular.64,293.5
Preternatural ClarityTalks about rerolls you might not have; therefore might grant rerolls but doesn't say it does.6293.5
Sensory FocusInfinite-range blindsight*6293.5
ShockwaveHas a duration but doesn't use it.6293.5
Spell RebirthTargets a creature but doesn't do anything with it. Functional effect may therefore have unlimited range.6293.5
Spell Rebirth (R)Targets a creature so can dispel epic spells with DC 16 check.6293.5
Spell Rebirth (R)Funky wording may allow counterspells which can't fail if you make the check.6293.5
Transmute WeaponNo-one's quite sure what a special material is.6293.5
Transmute WeaponWhat happens if you turn a weapon to Thinaun, it steals a soul, and turns to steel again?6293.5
Word of Nurturing, anyTargets one creature and affects another. Functional effect may therefore have unlimited range.6293.5
Vestige
VestigeDescriptionThreadPagesVersion
AstarothGrants craft feats, but not the ability to use them3433.5
BalamGaze attack has no listed range4373.5
ShaxGives sonic/electricity touch attack; what type is sneak attack with it?4493.5
ZceryllSummon Alien has no duration or range4123.5
Incarnum
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
Frost Helm soulmeldGives you a ray attack, of arbitrary range, when bound to the Crown Chakra1343.5
Incarnate WeaponDoes nothing if neutral character learns by shape soulmeld2443.5
Soulspeaker CircletSpend essentia to understand a language you already understand4313.5
Therapeutic MantleLinked to SL, but can be trigered by non-spells5153.5
Phase CloakUndefined interaction when Running5153.5
several SoulmeldsProvide static Essentia bonuses6383.5
VariousGive fly speed equal to 5*essentia invested, if 0 invested, can hover2453.5
Mystery
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
Black FireShapeable, but area is too small3273.5
Black LabyrinthAoE 1 mile radius, but the range is Long3433.5
FlickerInvokes 50% miss chance if cast in response to attack, standard action to cast1;334;363.5
Greater Life FadesConflicting target information4163.5
Manoeuvres and Stances
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
ManoeuvresMany ToB Manoeuvres only work when you have an enemy target2293.5
StancesMulticlassing can give stances several levels sooner than straight-classed initiators12-53.5
Bloodstorm BladeRanged Bull rushes with armour spikes / Ranged Grapples1193.5
Dance of the Spider (ToB)Eliminates all bonuses on enemy attacks while climbing4473.5
Iron Heart SurgeEnds entire effect, rather than ending it for one target1403.5
Iron Heart SurgeRequires ability to move; cannot undo many statuses that prevent movement*2213.5
Island of BladesUnusable by tiny or smaller sized characters5463.5
Mithral Tornado and Adamantine HurricaneMay or may not function with reach weapons, only extend to adjacent squares*3143.5
Shifting DefenseAllows 5' steps on AoO, but only 1/rd3453.5
Sudden LeapNo option to jump less than the maximium5143.5
Thicket of BladesMay or may not override Tumble AoO avoidance4493.5
Equipment
Equipment
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
variousThe parts are greater than the whole1213.5
Alchemical itemsNot magical, but only spellcasters can make them3293.5
AmmunitionA metal shuriken thrown at gelatinous cube (which doesn't harm metal) will still have a 50% chance of being lost/broken*1443.x
AmmunitionVarious dysfunctions6133.5
Amulet of Mighty Fists, Necklace of Natural AttacksNames are basically reversed in utility*113.5
Anti-ToxinCan increases the chance that you will die from poison6163.5
ArmourDefined by type not body shape2463.5
ArmourCrafting rules error2483.5
ArmourWithin a size category is one size fits all3123.5
Arrow of Spell Storing and Splitting BowWeird interaction5313.5
Bag of HoldingSuffocates creatures in 10 minutes, regardless of size or number of creatures; creatures that don't breath air or have bottle of air still have 10 minutes313.P
Bearskin ArmorFunctions in Wild Shape, but it's made from metal433.5
Bo of WaterAlways the same size no matter what size the weilder is63.5
Boomerang, Xendrik and TalentaAre ranged thrown weapons, but are they light or one-handed, or ?6253.5
Bone PasteMetal, stone, ceramic are inorganic5413.PF
BowsCan't shoot bottles3233.PF
Bracers, LongarmGives reach with all weapons, not merely those held4493.PF
CaltropsShoes give special +2 armour bonus, which is then promptly ignored as an armour bonus1453.x
Carnivorous JarCan steal organs from creature types without them5323.PF
Command Word activatedSpeaking a word is a free action, unless it's a command word when it takes a standard action5383.5
Crucifixion CrossTakes 10 hours to kill you, regardless5483.5
DefendingOnly works on swords3473.5
Deity specific holy symbolsSome grant bonus to caster level when turning or rebuking, which does not depend on caster level363.5
Disguise kit is "exhausted" after 10 uses, not used up6103.5
Double WeaponInteraction with two-weapon fighting are odd4203.5
Empty flaskWeighs more than full flask of holy water, alchemist's fire, etc113.5
Epic itemsDon't contain any alignment components6103.5
Exotic ShieldsDon't require a separate Proficiency2133.5
Exotic WeaponsCan use a hammer just fine, but add a hook to the bottom and it needs a feat*1183.5
Fire Coral PoisonNauseates with no duration383.5
Fire lance is more useful when it's broken2293.PF
Flail, LightCan be found in random loot, but not in the weapon table612-133.5
Flying CarpetDifferent sizes have different densities3103.5
Garrote (Song and Silence)Can't use Death Attack, requires grapple on classes that are terrible at grappling2153.5
Gauntlets, BonebreakerOccupy the wrong body slot for gauntlets, allowing a character to wear two pairs of gauntlets4493.PF
Gauntlets of Skill at ArmsOccupy the wrong body slot for gauntlets, allowing a character to wear two pairs of gauntlets4493.PF
Ghost Touch weaponCan't hit Ghosts unless manifested423.5
Glove, SingleUse both hands to wear one glove3423.5
Greatsword/longswordCan't do piercing damage3233.PF
Golem manualsClay, iron, stone have superfluous spells in their prerequisites compared to the Golem listings1373.5
Gnome crossbow sightLower penalties at two range increments than at one1403.5
Gnomish Crossbow SightRange bounding error6363.5
Grasping Hook (Dungeonscape)Magic item that costs less than mundane version1483.5
HalfspearCan be found in random loot, but not in the weapon table612-133.5
HarpoonsHarpoons can't hit whales underwater12-53.5
Hollow Boot HeelApparently small creatures wear large boots5183.5
Holy BombsDon't work against undead6403.PF
Holy weaponsTurns 1st level Evil characters into undead5343.5
Improvised WeaponsDependant upon weight and not size5163.5
Injury PoisonCan be applied to weapons which don't break the skin5393.5
Injury PoisonIf delivered via Unarmed attack can be applied anywhere6173.5
Javellincan be used as melee, but are they light, one handed, ... ?5103.5
Kinslayer weaponsDo extra damage against your kin, but don't specify how closely related they have to be6403.PF
Kits, variousInconsistencies between UE and AGC kits5473.PF
Luck BladeXP cost to craft is unusually low, and not due to simple typos1263.5
ManaclesEasy to escape from: just use them as improvised weapons until they break6233.PF
Maneuver items in ToBIron Heart Vest, Setting Sun Slippers etc - can never been taken off even to bathe3453.5
Meditiation Crystal channel focusOnly works for Monk's Ki Pool6233.5
MithrilAll Mithril items are Masterworked, but do the ACP bonuses stack?5163.5
Mithral Chain Shirt, Elven Chain, Mithral Breastplate of SpeedGive Medium creatures 30ft (20ft for breastplate) speed and Small creatures 20ft (15 for breastplate) speed36-103.5
Moon BladeAlways the same size no matter what size the weilder is63.5
Morphing WSAOn a double weapon, possible to morph away the head with the morphing ability3223.5
Morphing WSAThrown category confusion424,253.5
PaperAny quantity of paper still weighs nothing1123.5
Pathfinder GreatcoatCan create intelligent creatures5383.PF
Phylactery of Negative ChannellingAdds 2d6 to any damage4423.PF
Physical Power mantleGrants Tree Action1153.5
Physician's SpectaclesGive constant effect detect poison and diagnose disease, which are instantaneous effects5483.PF
Potions and ElixiersPotions are Elixiers, only they are not6193.5
Potion of Protection from arrowsScales with CL, unlike the spell6223.5
Prayer Beads (Strand)Strand with 0 beads is negative cost163.5
Ranged WeaponsGargantuan Longbow and a Diminutive Longbow have the same range2123.5
Ranged Weapons, magicalGenerate arbitrary number of magical arrows, then sell them for a profit3133.5
Raptor's MaskBlanket immunity to effect which dazzle or daze, even if they are minor riders583.5
Sai-4 to disarm checks from light weapon cancels out +4 to disarm checks for being designed to disarm273.5
ScrollsClerics can make scrolls of domain spells, but usually can't use them4253.5
ScrollsScrolls of multiple spells exist but there is no way to make them4253.5
Scrying shardWith a Scrying shard anyone can cast scry. It's supposed to just be a portable focus2273.5
ScytheDesigned for mowing grass so why the x4 Crit multiplier ?3363.5
Shadowsilk Armortext is unclear about ACP, whether -1 or 03323.5
Shadow veilPointlessly grants concealement in shadows, which everyone has anyway583.5
ShieldLose AC bonus after using it as a weapon, until you mumble4233.5
SoarwoodHeavier than darkwood, despite being used in lighter-than-air craft as the primary lifting source1453.5
Spell component pouchContains (by strict interpretation of "no listed price" rule) multiple artefacts (including those larger than the pouch's owner), a piece of every god in existence, a tuning fork for every plane, and so on243.x
Spell component pouchContains living creatures (Fixed in LOM)329,313.5
Spiked GauntletPrevents you from being disarmed at all, but doesn't prevent you from wielding a different weapon1273.5
Spiked ArmourThese are, and are not, weapons4293.5
Spiked ArmourYou can be disarmed of spiked armour3173.5
Splitting Raptor arrowsSplitting bow and Raptor arrows interaction2483.5
SpyglassMakes objects appear a mere 40' closer293.PF
Starfaring RobesMoves at a random speed, a party could arrive over 4 years apart5353.PF
Stone Salve (DMG)Has flesh to stone prerequisite, despite reversing the process2183.5
SugliinEasier to use of you are not proficient6183.5
Surprise WeaponsCan be used two-handed, DC to find is 15 regardless of size3183.5
Talisman of the DiskMakes a Tenser's floating disk with a Transmutation aura. Tenser's floating disk is Evocation3493.5
Tetsubo of EarthAlways the same size no matter what size the weilder is63.5
Tower shieldHide behind shield, now shield is hidden as well113.5
Tower shieldNo rules/penalties for using a tower shield while mounted2393.PF
TransportHorses and Ships have no weight223.5
Tumbler's BreastplateGrants +2 Tumble, but stops you using the skill523.5
Wand of Mnemonic EnhancerCan give 150 extra spell levels in one day1353.5
WeaponsContradictory rules about wielding weapons of the wrong size3463.5
WoodWood cannot be burnt1193.5
VorpalVorpal weapons aren't terribly effective for executions*1173.5
Vorpal SwordImplies undead can ignore the effect, e.g. keeping their bite attacks5373.5
Yari of AirAlways the same size no matter what size the weilder is63.5
The Collection Part 4
Combat
Action
Description
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Pages
Version
Attack ActionAttack action is never defined4123.5
Attacks of opportunityStandard-action ranged attacks provoke, full-round don't113.5
BullrushLarge creature rushing a line of medium must fit into two squares, but can't2183.5
Catapults cannot shoot over wallsNo indirect fire rules LoS only610-113.5
ChargingDouble damage depends upon being mounted not upon speed62-33.5
CleaveCan cleave through millions of opponents5423.5
CDGPossible with 0 damage533.5
CoverTwo medium creatures facing off in a 5' hallway have cover from each other5253.5
CoverEvery creature always provides it's own cover.3313.5/PF
Death from Massive DamageImpractically low threshold*2323.5
DemoralizeOpponents can avoid demoralization by playing peek-a-boo4333.5
DisarmDisarming a Zombie improves it's damage per attack2113.PF
DisarmCan Disarm Armour Spikes or own shield5253.5
DisarmSpiked Gauntlets prevent you from being disarmed at all, but doesn't prevent you from wielding a different weapon1273.5
Fatigue and exhaustionFatigued characters cannot run or charge, but exhausted characters can1313.5
FearEffects can be permanent2493.5
FeintNon-Humanoids can feint Humanoids at no penalty, but take a -4 penalty against their own type2463.5
GrappleHelpless creatures don't auto-fail grapple checks2163.PF
GrappleCan't start multiple grapple attempts unless BAB +6 or better, even if hasted or flurrying273.5
GrappleNot allowed to use Su abilities in grapple (among other possible problems)273.PF
GrappleColossal creatures get +32 to grapple Fine ones1213.5
GrappleInfinite characters can be in the same square and move with infinite speed2293.5
GrappleGrappling ignores weight when moving2493.5
GrappleWhen Grappling Oozes they are not allowed to attack you with their acid5433.5
GrappleVery low strenght characters become more mobile when pinned5463.PF
House catHouse cats kill Commoners1213.5
Mounted chargingThe mount must make an attack, but when it does so its rider can't make an attack with a reach weapon*12-53.5
Mounted chargingRider probably isn't actually charging, which breaks lances and all manner of things1493.x
PounceCan be either a full attack after a charge attack, or a full attack after a charge move1,449,313.5
PronePrevents one from casting spells that require a ranged attack1313.5
Reach/ThrowColossal character have greater reach than their thrown weapon range5463.5
Reach weaponsCan attack adjacent large+ creatures, without cover5413.5
Readied actionsIf staggered, you can ready a charge. Otherwise you can't443.5
Sneak AttackMelee can get sneak damage at more than 30'2123.5
Sneak AttackRange limited to 30', unless you have reach5313.5
SnipingHarder than melee attacking while hiding3353.5
Spiked ChainLarge creatures cannot attack targets eactly 10' away5193.5
SunderSundering a worn headband/circlet without injuring its wearer is not especially difficult1363.x
SurpriseHaving a blind/deaf critter generates Infinite Surprise Rounds1143.5
SurpriseCasters win again: They get to cast, melee just get to move114-153.5
SurpriseSometimes having a surprise round is worse than not having one1183.5
Thrown WeaponsRange does not depend on Strength2483.5
Throw weaponsSplash weapons can go farther when you miss then when you hit3483.5
Thrown Melee weaponsSeveral dysfunctions6373.5
Tiny CreaturesMust spring attack, can't full attack4233.5
Torture (BoVD)Attempting to escape from a Grapple provokes a free CdG3393.0
TWFCan't dual wield unarmed strikes, unless you have a weapon in one hand4293.5
TWFHandedness is still in the rules413.5
TWFUndefined for most ranged weapons4493.PF
Monsters
Monster
Description
Thread
Pages
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Air SubtypeAlways have fly speeds, except when they don't5233.5
AquaticsAbilities are not limited to working in water423.5
Change Shape abilityMost creatures cannot change back4493.5
Construct typeDoes not give immunity to the Sickened or Nauseated conditions513.5
MobsOne special attack effects them all, well maybe633-343.5
OozesAre not immune to Bleed effects6213.PF
PlantsBreath air, with weird interactions with limited air and non-plant creatures6213.5
Special Attacks and Special QualitiesSeveral dysfunctions6343.5
Stench abilityAffects you even if you can't smell613.5
Spellcasting creatureDoes no get class features if advanced in a spellcasting class6343.5
Swarm subtypeNot immune to distraction4103.PF
UndeadDoes negative energy cure them?1433.5
UndeadCan speak and use spells with verbal components, even if they don't have vocal chords.*323.5
Undead in HoHCan be resurrected if willing, no mention of requiring destruction373.5
Undead typeImmune to physical ability damage, Con - makes them immune to all ability damage3453.5
Undead mountHave special riding rules which match the standard undead control rules613.5
Vivacious creaturesIf aura suppressed, 1 Str damage/round, but has no Str score2193.5
Amethyst Dragon (MMII)Bonus on saving throws against force effects; listed example doesn't allow save2163.5
BadgerIf it survives combat, rages until death*2353.5
BalorVorpal sword is an (Su) ability6403.5
Barghest (MMI)"Can claw and bite" in any form, but can't "use any natural weapons" in goblin form2363.5
Barghest, GreaterAdvancement does not specify CR increase5393.5
Beetle, Knell (MMIII)Vermin with skill points3363.5
Black PuddingMade of Acid but take full damage from Acid3473.5
Bleakborn(LM)Cannot be destroyed with HP damage2243.5
Blighted Bloodfire OozeLoses ooze traits, though it is still ooze like3143.5
Bloodfiend LocustsCreates Fiendish Vampire spawn: Illegal template stacking3273.5
BonewormDesiccation aura Temp HP has no listed duration4263.5
BonewormCan render you shaken with no duration4263.5
CatNo ranks in Tumble, so accidental falls will usually kill them2203.PF
Cats and ElephantsElephants are better at Climbing and Jumping than Cats1223.5
Deadly Dancer (ToM)Miscounts 60' speed as 10 squares3203.5
DemonsOften have darkness SLA, but racial darkvision is ineffective in it, so Babau etc can't sneak attack263.5
Desmodu Hunting Bat/War Bat (MMII)Blindsense, and no other vision mode, so total concealment against all targets in the dark2163.5
DevilsChain devils are immune to cold.Ice devils aren't2133.5
DevourerCan deflect various spells which they are immune to anyway433.5
DevourerHas lesser planar ally as an SLA, but cannot pay anything it calls, as it has no treasure6143.5
DomovaiLA+4 or LA+2 ?5183.5
DragonsQualify for anything that requires dragonblood subtype, no mention of meeting other prerequisites2253.5
DragonsHoards are too small for them to sleep on5463.5
Dragon, SteelLikes to blend in with humanoids, but has to use 1 min/level polymorph to do so2373.5
Dragonspawn, Black Acid breath does Fire damage663.5
Drow WerebatLA+2 but should be LA+4 or LA+55183.5
Earth elemental (MM)No tremorsense, so blind while earth gliding2163.5
Elder BrainCan disguise self well enough to fool others*1303.5
Electrum HorrorRanged attack has no stated range3363.5
Flayerspawn PsychicChannels power points into Illithid Blast, but how ?2493.5
Fire elementalsFire elementals can burn to death in sufficient temperatures1273.x
Forest SlothHave Brachiation speed, Brachiation is udefined5233.5
GhaeleProtective aura interferes with it's other SLAs533.5
GiantsInfants have no listed size1263.5
Giant, Mountain (MM2)No listed rock-throwing range4443.5
Gibbering MoutherSwallow Whole: Can eat itself5313.5
GlaistigCan't move more than 100' from pool, but has LA2193.5
GlimmerskinHas Cleave, but Str -4443.5
GuecubuDefines what happens if you don't sleep4383.5
Hairy spiders(3.5 update to Monsters of Faerun) have LA of +0 as vermin2293.5
Hydra10-headed has lower Will than 9- or 11-headed1263.5
HydraHow many AoO does it get with it's Combat Reflexes?5153.5
Iron GolemIron Golem is Hollow1233.5
KeeperBlind, with Blindsight, but outsider type gives 60' darkvision (FF, so 3.0)1463.0
KrakenJet power is not specified as Swim4233.5
Landwyrm, MountainHas a bite attack that deals 4d18+16 damage5453.5
LichPhylactery must be located and destroyed, what if it's only destroyed ?5193.5
Lizard, Giant Banded (Sandstorm)*Can use their improved grab on a creature of any size3383.5
Locathah (MMI)Entry states it has no teeth, but picture clearly shows prominent teeth2363.5
LycanthropesKnowledge checks to identify are split across two skills, and don't work at all in hybrid form1383.x
LycanthropesCannot assume form of templated creature, its own forms are those of a templated creature.353.5
LycanthropyIncreases monsters power, but can decrease CR5283.5
Mane (FC1)Physically unable to do any damage at all to any devil, ever4453.5
MarutDesigned for hunting liches and other death-cheaters, but liches are largely immune to the signature fists of thunder and lightning and their DR is effective against non-magic slams253.x
Master of the Hunt[MM5]Gets a morale bonus to which it is immune3273.5
Mind Flayer of Thoon (MMV)Stipulates "greater resurrection" in some cases3243.5
MolydeusAttack routine is problematic, bites either 2 or 3 times in full attack3123.5
MyrmixicusWields four same-size scythes in four arms with no special ability to do so2363.5
NereidMagical shawl of seafoam has no stats533.5
NezumiNezumi can't speak Common2483.5
PhasmWhen advanced in HD, size changes from Medium to Huge1313.5
PixiePixie boxing is inconsequential1203.5
PixiePixies are naturally invisible, and cannot see invisible1163.5
Prismatic GolemsAre Incorporeal Constructs*1433.5
ProteanImmunities, regeneration bypass not specified, no restriction against picking recursive Alter Forms1393.5
ProteanNothing overcomes its regeneration; can and cannot shift into incorporeal forms2433.5
Rot Grub Swarm infestationDisease gains victim's energy resistance5473.PF
Ruby Golem, Revenant template (MoF)Regeneration specifies how much non-lethal damage it recovers, but both are immune to non-lethal1463.0
RukanyrReflexive Sunder ability amputates natural weapons5243.5
ShadowCreate Spawn Ability works even if the character has been raised6343.PF
ShriekerStat block incorrect due to non-abilities being misinterpreted5403.5
SiabrieTemp HP has no listed duration4263.5
SkeletonsUndead can use a sense until they lose the sensory organ, skeletons have no sensory organs*2433.5
SolarA Chaotic Good Solar can have access to the Law Domain3133.5
Spider, InfernoDoes fire damage to characters who hit it with missile weapons5503.5
Spider EaterAuto death in six weeks time, if you're hit4413.5
SuccubusCan give you variable doses of Negative levels4273.5
SuccubusHas bonus to disguise when using alter self, does not have alter self2443.5
Sunfly SwarmHas two SLAs: Detect evil and Detect evil613.5
SwarmFine/Diminutive swarms immune to weapon damage, despite members not being immune (e.g. toads)3243.PF
SwarmCan be half-dragon*4113.5
SwarmCan be held if swallowed whole, constituent creatures cannot4173.5
SwarmDruid can potentially wildshape into swarm without gaining swarm subtype4173.5
SwarmNear Infinite density is possible5233.5
TarrasqueA no-save-just-die will work on the Tarrasque643.5
TerlenCannot breath underwater3143.5
TendriculossesSwallow Whole: Can eat a creature of any size5313.5
TroglodyteSmell worse when alive than when dead or zombie*4113.5
Undead SwarmsDistraction Save DCs are Con based2233.5
Unnatural Presence <Trait>Allows you to intimidate types which you can intimidate anyway, though they are immune to fear533.PF
VampireBlood Drain Temp HP have no listed duration4263.5
Vampire spawnBlood Drain Temp HP have no listed duration4263.5
VelrocHas full attack of 4 talons at 4 iteratives373.5
VoorIs Blind, but the rules seem to not see this543.x
Vorr (FF)Not updated from 3.0 DR4503.5
VorrShadow Form has DR 50/+5, but no clause saying it can't attack while in that form513.x
Warforged, QuorcraftMindless constructs with class levels3363.5
WightsAnything killed by negative levels becomes a Wight. Wight is a creature, not a template.1153.5
WolfCannot Trip as part of an AoO4283.5
WyvernHas full attack including wings and talons, states can only use talons in a flyby attack373.5
Zombie (MM)After an active zombie has rotted long enough, it appears to be a skeleton, but retains its own stats2173.PF
Misc
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
Various effectsDuration specified in years, or months, term which may have no meaning5443.5
Ability DamageA creature with Dex 0 may or may not be paralysed, as the condition3143.5
Ability ScoresAbility modifiers of higher than 5 may be impossible3113.5
Ability ScoresNPCs can have Int<3*2323.5
Ability scoresNegative adjustments to ability scores: are they Penalties or Decreases ?663.PF
Animal typeIf Int increased in various ways, animal is no longer animal?4103.PF
Area calculationsPi is wrongly estimated, and diverges increasingly at larger radii1363.x
ArmourIf you're wearing armour and fail a save against sleep, you'll be fatigued next day1113.5
ArmourArmour imposes ASF, but gauntlets do not2313.5
ArmourWithin a size category, almost all armour is one size fits all3103.5
Armour Check PenaltyEven the most restrictive of clothes impose no ACP*3103.5
Armour ClassAC Bonuses do not exist5163.5
Being deadBeing dead does not stop you from taking non-physical actions1133.5
Blood Moon SignRaging makes you comatose5383.5
BoundBinding someone's hands paralysises them and well several dysfunctions follow6243.5
BurrowNo rules for this ability4263.PF
CandleCan hide in candlelight, even in daylight5473.5
CarryingItems in bags of holding etc. still count against capacity2493.5
Carrying CapacityCannot be determined for creatures with more than four legs or less than two3163.5
CMD+1 if large, and -1 if large1203.P
ConcealmentMoving into shadows is a good way to avoid being sneak attacked1443.x
ConcealmentOne character's darkvision can negate shadow opportunity to hide from others without darkvision1453.x
Ceilings12d6 damage from anything, even paper1193.5
City populationSmall settlements can have more people with non-Commoner classes than their population618-193.5
Cold ImmunityBeing immune to cold makes you vulnerable to Fire4393.5
Community Wealth and PopulationRediculous number of items available for purchase in most towns6213.5
Difficult TerrainPoor visibility may reduce falling speed or increase falling damage4143.5
Disabled vs StaggeredYou can be both conscious and unconscious593.5
DiseaseNatural mummy rot is less dangerous than that spread by mummies413.5
DiseasePlague Blight: nauseated, no duration413.5
Domains {Divine, Glory}Some deities with those domains have incompatible alignments and cannot grant some spells4433.PF
DrowningBucket healing11-3.5
DrowningNo way to recover from drowning1163.5
DwarfCan throw NI Shields in a round6293.PF
Dying and UnconsciousnessNeither makes the creature prone4123.5
EidolonCan have the Sticky evolution on the Slippery evolution and vice versa6193.PF
EnemiesHostile creatures are not your enemy so no AoO3283.5
EnemiesPeople who attack you are no longer enemies5443.5
Evasion5% of rogues etc would survive a nuclear explosion*163.5
EvasionWorks weirdly with e.g. delayed blast fireball if a bead is swallowed*1473.x
Extravagent cost of livingMakes you arbitarily wealthy3493.PF
Falling Objectsobjects only do damage if they have fallen more then 10ft1193.x
FallingFalling into water hurts more than falling onto land1183.x
FallingFalling off a cliff, stalling in flight, and jumping down all have different speeds and do not reference each other273.5
FallingDropping prone in your square immediately lands you on the ground with no damage taken no matter how far2;37;33.PF
Falling ObjectsNo rules for falling creatures, objects less than one pound cause no damage343.5
Familiar: Shocker LizardHas the Electricity sub-type, which doesn't exist6123.5
FamiliarsFamiliars can have LA, but you still can't play them2493.5
FamiliarsFamiliar can have 0 HP5413.5
Fatigue and exhaustionDo not make a character more vulnerable to sleep effects6253.x
FireWood can't be harmed by fire's halved 1d6 untyped damage after its 5 hardness1;612;93.5
FireNo list or mention of flammable objects, so rocks can burn, but fortunately torches can't necessarily ignite things*1443.x
Followers of GorumForbidden from casting the rusting grasp spell but can still use Transmute Metal to Wood6193.PF
FlyRules gap*1203.P
FlyingQuadrupeds can carry more than bipeds when flying393.5
Forced MarchNonlethal damage is healed as faster than it comes after level 62333.5
Gaze AttacksIteratives can be made with gaze attacks4123.5
HandsCome in several sizes4393.5
HardnessPicks can't actually do much of anything to stone given hardness and rules for piercing weapons1443.x
Hot or Cold weatherDamage is untyped3263.5
Hunger and Thirstyou can't die from starvation or dehydration1233.5
Immunity to BlindnessCan help even if you are just in the dark583.5
IntelligenceMin 3 int at chargen, even if you manage to get it lower than that6123.5
Killing a FiendAlways a good act, veterans of the Blood War are evil outsiders who have killed many fiends373.5
Lava is not FireCreatures with the cold subtype don't take any extra damage from lava1153.5
Lava and MagmaFire resist 1 provides immunity to magma and lava; can drown in lava, but not magma; only creatures immune to fire can drown in lava2423.5
Legendary SitesRobbing the Legendary Iron Wyrm Vault costs you 3000gp1143.5
LightingCharacter in darkness can't see character with torch, but character with torch can see character outside with no problem12-53.5
Line of EffectTwo different definitions4313.5
Magic/Psionics TransparencyMay or may not apply when crafting items3143.5
Mining rulesHigh-wisdom low-strength character excavates much faster than high-strength low-wisdom character1453.5
Movement SpeedsMultiple movement speed types do not interact4123.5
MulticlassingYou can pick up a first level of Wizard at an earlier age if you take a less-skilled class first233.x
Nonlethal DamageNonlethal Damage does damage, but then it doesn't3483.5
PaperWalls of paper stop rocks1193.5
PhysicsNo Inertia or Momentum1213.X
Planar BubblesOverlapping bubbles can cause a contradiction4423.5
Portals, one wayWhat happens if you stick part of yourself through?6233.5
Positive Energy PlaneUndead gain infinite temporary HP/fast healing with no risk of exploding113.5
Positive Energy PlaneNatives are unable to breathe in the airlessness of the plane253.5
Positive LevelsDo not affect undead properly3153.5
Racial hit diceRacial hit die exchange for humanoids and non-humanoids is confusing117-183.X
Rage clawsAllows you to keep acting to -12 HP, but death always sets your HP to -101123.5
Ready ActionsCommoner Railgun1213.5
RegenerationVorpal weapons cannot kill unless the right type of damage2423.5
Retraining RulesParadoxical pre-reqs4423.PF
Sample NPCsOften fail prerequisites/misapply class features, such as Abjurant Champ improving mage armour1123.5
Sample NPCsJozan's alignment is Good/Evil1203.5
ShipsA ship that is going backwards must stop before it can go backwards4413.5
SickenedDoesn't stack with itself5473.5,3.PF
SleepingNo penalty for not sleeping for non-casters1303.5
Slow SuffocationSmall amounts of healing can negate it indefinitely2423.5
Smoke, HeavyCreatures that produce heavy smoke vulnerable to their own smoke effect2423.5
SoulSeveral dysfunctions58-93.5
Spooked drawbackAttempts to override immunities to fear, but doesn't449PF
Square-Cube LawGiant Insects can't breath1243.X
Starvation/ThirstCan't starve to death, and can't die of thirst in Core either, or if you're not in a desert-ish environment2103.5
Supply and DemandAll prices and supplies of things remain constant3503.x
Swim checkStrength scales by size. Swim check DCs do not5423.5
Teamwork Benefit:Cunning AmbushIgnores size of team member523.5
The Law of SequenceCan be turned off with pseudo-heighten6293.5
The Universe Hears Just FineYou might want to be silenced; unclear what happens with Silent SLA or AMM: Silent6293.5
Tiny CreaturesCan move through resisting creature's square at full speed, but not if the creature is unresisting5293.5
TrapsCheap way of making magic items1333.5
TrapsToo expensive for dungeon denizens1333.5
Tripping and Falling ProneBoth function as normal in water333.5
Turn Rebuke UndeadCower is a fear effect, so undead are immune5273.5
Ultimate MagicCan cure yourself of nausea when casting a spell, which you can't do when nauseated4343.PF
Walkingis more tiring than combat2293.5
WalkingNo requirement to actually walk5393.5
WightsNegative levels applied to an animal produces a Wight, which is not a template673.5
Wounding(Monster Ability)Can affect plants, constructs, elementals, undead, oozes, other creatures with no blood*3193.5
Adventure
Description
Thread
Pages
Version
Shadows of the Last WarYellow lock can only be opened by a yellow key which does not exist4113.5
*These are a bit dubious as to actually being dysfunctional, but they're annoying at any rate.
TuggyNE
2013-01-16, 10:23 PM
All right, I'll grab page 1. :smallsmile:
{table]Base Class|Monk|No proficiency with unarmed strikes
Prestige Class|Ruby Knight Vindicator|Must spend standard to gain swift
Prestige Class|Shadow Sun Ninja|Immediate action to absorb cold damage allows already-used swift action next turn to shoot fire
Feats|Brew Potion|No way to make oils
Misc|Attacks of opportunity|Standard-action ranged attacks provoke, full-round don't
Prestige Class|Ur-Priest|Disqualifies self
Prestige Class|Dragon Disciple|Disqualifies self as capstone
Equipment|Tower shield|Hide behind shield, now shield is hidden as well
Feat|Self-Sufficient|Doesn't actually make one particularly self-sufficient*
Misc|Drowning|Bucket healing**
Equipment|Empty flask|Weighs more than full flask of holy water, alchemist's fire, etc
Spells|Deathwatch|[Evil], on Good-only Healer's/Slayer of Domiel's list, where it can't be cast
Misc|Positive Energy Plane|Undead gain infinite temporary HP/fast healing with no risk of exploding
Base Class|Unarmed Swordsage|AC Bonus doesn't apply in no armor
Equipment|Amulet of Mighty Fists, Necklace of Natural Attacks|Names are basically reversed in utility*[/table]
Note that I didn't bother to include the proof for any of these. :smalltongue:
*These are a bit dubious as to actually being dysfunctional, but they're annoying at any rate.
**Partial listing; further details will be added later in the thread.
It didn't really take very long to run through the first page, actually about 20 minutes, maybe.
So claiming 2-3 done with 2-3 already, and claiming done with 4-5 now. :smallamused:
{table]Skills|Hide|Two diminutive creatures are incapable of finding each other*
Skills|Spot|It's impossible to see the Sun, moon, stars, etc
Misc|Thrown weapons|Harpoons can't hit whales underwater
Feat|Ride-By Attack/Spirited Charge|Only triggers when charging, but mount is charging, not rider
Feat|Ride-By Attack|Charge requirements make riding by geometrically impossible
Misc|Mounted charging|The mount must make an attack, but when it does so its rider can't make an attack with a reach weapon*
Misc|Lighting|Character outside shadowy illumination area of torch can't see character with torch, but character with torch can see character outside with no problem and no concealment
Spells|Darkness|Can brighten an area by setting light level to precisely shadowy illumination
Base Class|Dread Necromancer|Fear aura has no listed duration
Prestige Class|Eternal Blade|Useless class feature gives Uncanny Dodge in all armor, but this is already the case
Spells|Disintegrate|Doesn't work on trees or other living objects
Feat|Magic in the Blood|If Dragonborn Drow or similar, grants additional uses of missing SLAs
Base Class|ToB stances|Multiclassing can give stances several levels sooner than straight-classed initiators
Base Class|RotW Halfling Rogue sub|Ranged sneak attack is same as normal, melee -1d6, instead of trading melee for ranged
Skills|Knowledge checks to ID|Humans can't be identified by other humans without ranks in K:Local, knowing a red dragon breathes fire is more difficult the more powerful it is, etc
Prestige Class|Celestial Mystic|Pre-req Vow of Abstinence prevents casting identify due to material component[/table]
*A bit dubious.
Nice start seems to work fine. The first page is bound to be the hardest.
Might need to change the tables a bit for multiple pages.
I'll add spoilers and spruce up the top pages at some point.
It would be nice to have an image too at some point.
Consolidation of posts to reclaim space.
I was trying to track page numbers - so that people could look up the references. I'm going to label these as pages 2-5 ?
Still 10% completion.:smallsmile:
Kobold-Bard
2013-01-17, 08:29 AM
Ruby Knight Vindicator isn't a dysfunction. 3.5 doesn't work like 4e, you can't trade a standard action for a move or swift one, so that ability is to allow you o use two swift actions in one round.
Ruby Knight Vindicator isn't a dysfunction. 3.5 doesn't work like 4e, you can't trade a standard action for a move or swift one, so that ability is to allow you o use two swift actions in one round.
Please pursue this in the Dysfunction rules threads themselves. The original claim was in thread 1, page 1, post 1. Links are at the top of the handbook.
This is an indexing/collation thread.
TuggyNE
2013-01-17, 10:18 PM
I was trying to track page numbers - so that people could look up the references. I'm going to label these as pages 2-5 ?
Ah, yeah, I should put page numbers in the table.
OK, let's go with 6-8 now! :smallwink:
{table]Misc|Evasion|5% of rogues etc would survive a nuclear explosion*|6
Equipment|Strand of prayer beads|Strand with 0 beads is negative cost|6
Base Class|Totemist etc|No proficiency with granted natural attacks|6
Prestige Class|Reaping Mauler|Capstone grants save-or-die that could be accomplished easier and faster with CdG and auto-sleep|7
Skill|Jump|Untrained Commoner with 10 Str can jump 10 feet from standing start one time in 20|8
Skill|Craft|Certain items can be crafted in infinite quantities in 8 hours for no cost|10
Base Class|Favored Soul|Knowledge: Religion is not a class skill|10
Misc|Armor|If you're wearing armor and fail a save against sleep, you'll be fatigued next day|11
Misc|Sample NPCs|Often fail prerequisites/misapply class features, such as AbjChamp improving mage armor|12
Power|Bend Reality|Disallows imitating spells, but then lists XP cost for doing so with costly material components|12
Equipment|Paper|Any quantity of paper still weighs nothing|12
Misc|Fire|Wood can't be harmed by fire's halved 1d6 untyped damage after its 5 hardness|12
Power|Reality Revision|Disallows imitating spells, but can revive the dead by imitating a spell|12
Feat|Diehard|Doesn't keep you from falling unconscious at negative HP|12
Misc|Rage claws|Allows you to keep acting to -12 HP, but death always sets your HP to -10|12
Prestige Class|Arcane Archer|Doesn't have Knowledge:Arcana as a class skill|12[/table]
Uhhhhhh. Wow, the useful contributions really got thin fast. Gonna go ahead Done with 9-12 :smalltongue:.
24% of thread one :smallsmile:
Not sure the Crowd sourcing is working though ?
TuggyNE
2013-01-18, 06:37 AM
24% of thread one :smallsmile:
Not sure the Crowd sourcing is working though ?
It uh... does seem to be a less crowded task than I had thought. ^_^;;;
mattie_p
2013-01-18, 06:42 AM
I fully intend to take a couple of pages today, haven't had the chance before now.
OK, I'm going to do pages 13-15
Misc|Being dead|Being dead does not stop you from taking non-physical actions|1|13
Skills|Knowledge (History)|DC 15 check to predict the future|1|13
Misc|Legendary Sites|Robbing the Legendary Iron Wyrm Vault costs you 3000gp|1|14
PrC|Frenzied Berserker|Deathless Frenzy ability doesn't make you immune to non-lethal damage|1|14
Combat|Suprise|Having a blind/deaf critter generates Infinte Suprise Rounds|1|14
Combat|Suprise|Casters win again|1|14-15
Misc|Lava is not Fire|Creatures with the cold subtype don't take any extra damage from lava|1|15
Combat|Pounce|When slowed a character with pounce can charge and full attack|1|15
Item|Physical Power mantle|Grants Tree Action|1|15
Misc|Wights|Anything killed by negative levels becomes a Wight. Wight is a creature, not a template.|1|15
Feat|Diehard|At negative hp you're unconcious anyway|1|15
PrC|Warshaper|Can grow an arbitary number of natural attacks|1|15
Class|Monk|The Way of the Shackled Beast doesn't work|1|15
Skill|Swim|Cannot swim in Acid or Lava, but youcan swim in Ice|1|15
Skill|Listen|Normal conversatins are impossible|1|15
Skill|Diplomacy|Dimplomancer|1|15
Oh and a pathfinder one, pity this is a 3.5 thread.
Pathfinder|Skills|Knowledge (the planes)|DC 15 check to know what plane you're on|1|13
mattie_p
2013-01-19, 07:56 AM
I'll take 16-18 then.
19-21 for me then.
Misc|Falling Objects|objects only do damage if they have fallen more then 10ft|1|19
Combat|Bloodstorm Blade|Ranged Bull rushes with armor spikes / Ranged Grapples|1|19
Combat|Battle Jump|Can charge in the middle of a charge|1|19
Misc|Ceilings|12d6 damage from anything, even paper|1|19
Misc|Paper|Walls of paper stop rocks|1|19
Mics|Wood|Wood cannot be burn't|1|19
Spells|Delay Poison|Delay Poison counters Neutralize Poison|1|19
Pathfinder|Jump|Can jump as part of a free action|1|20
Pathfinder|Jump|Can jump an arbitary distance|1|20
Pathfinder|CMD|+1 if large, and -1 if large|1|20
Spell|Banishment/DismissalLesser Planetouched are effected, but it has no effect|1|20
Pathfinder|Spell|Fly|Rules gap*|1|20
Misc|Pixie|Pixie boxing is inconsequential|1|20
Skills|Spot|Cannot See the Moon|1|20
Feat|Air Heritage|Can take Hover feat, even if you cannot fly|1|20
Misc|Jozan|Jozan's alignment is Good/Evil|1|20
Combat|Grapple|Colossal creatures get +32 to grapple Fine ones|1|21
Misc|Ready Actions|Commoner Railgun|1|21
Misc|Physics|No Inertia or Momentum|1|21
Items|various|The parts are greater than the whole|1|21
Combat|Housecat|Housecats kill Commoners|1|21
Skill|Know (Nobility and Royalty)|Very few people know who their parents are|1|21
More pathfinder, should we have a new category ?
I'm going to do 22-24 next
Well lots of laughs, but not too many rules.
Our first invocation though.
Skills|Knowledge(Local)|Knowledge(Local) is not a class skill for Commoners|1|22
Invocation|Brimstone Blast|Limits subsequent fire damage to 2d6 / round|1|22
Misc|Cats and Elephants|Elephants are better at Climbing and Jumping than Cats|1|22
Spell|Leomund's secure shelter|shadowcast Leomund's secure shelter|1|22
Feat|Improved Precise Shot|Autohit|1|23
Misc|Hunger and Thirst|you can't die from starvation or dehydration|1|23
Misc|Iron Golem|Iron Golem is Hollow|1|23
Spell|Diamond Material Component|Material component variable in size.|1|24
Misc|Square-Cure Law|Giant Insects can't breath|1|24
TuggyNE
2013-01-19, 09:02 PM
I'll take 25-28 I think.
Spells|Delay Poison|Delay Poison counters Neutralize Poison|1|19
This is only true in PF.
More pathfinder, should we have a new category ?
Maybe, but I'd just add another column: Edition (one of 3.x/3.5/PF).
mattie_p
2013-01-19, 10:01 PM
OK, 16-18 done.
Misc|Pixie|Pixies are naturally invisible, and cannot see invisible|1|16
Misc|Drowning|No way to recover from drowning|1|16
Misc|Vorpal|Vorpal weapons aren't terribly effective for executions*|1|17
Misc|Racial hit dice|Racial hit die exchange for humanoids and non-humanoids is confusing|1|17-18
Equipment|Exotic Weapons|Can use a hammer just fine, but add a hook to the bottom and it needs a feat*|1|18
Misc|Surprise|Sometimes having a surprise round is worse than not having one|1|18
Skills|Track|DC 60 to identify creatures by tracks|1|18
Spells|Polymorph Any Object|Duration mechanics|1|18
Misc|Falling|Falling into water hurts more than falling onto land|1|18
TuggyNE
2013-01-19, 11:00 PM
Here's 25-28, cross-checked with PF rules to see which ones are still valid.
Equipment|Luck Blade|XP cost to craft is unusually low, and not due to simple typos|26|3.5
Monster|Giants|Infants have no listed size, and are thus presumably two or one size categories larger than juveniles or adolescents respectively|26|3.5
Monster|Hydra|10-headed has lower Will than 9- or 11-headed|26|3.5
Skill|Balance|There are no size penalties; toads and the Tarrasque have the same difficulty balancing on a given 1-foot wide beam|26|3.x
Misc|Environmental heat|Fire elementals can burn to death in sufficient temperatures|27|3.x
Prestige Class|Pyrokineticist|Heat Death ability can kill (fire) subtyped creatures|27|3.5
Skill|Swim|Unaffected by anything held in your hands unless it has an ACP or enough weight to encumber you|27|3.x
Spell|Cold Snap|Actually increases temperature (by a negative penalty)*|27|PF
Equipment|Spiked Gauntlet|Prevents you from being disarmed at all, but doesn't prevent you from wielding a different weapon|27|3.5
Equipment|Large tauroid creatures|Can wield Large weapons without penalty despite their humanoid torsos and arms being the same size as Medium humanoids|27|3.x
Feat|Improved Maneuverability (Draconomicon) has tougher prereqs than Improved Flight (Complete Adventurer) but no better benefits|27|3.5
mattie_p
2013-01-20, 07:24 AM
Claiming 29-32.
thethird
2013-01-20, 07:31 AM
Reading this thread... are you aware of the dead levels articles?
here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x)
Knowledge Specialty (Ex): At 1st level, a favored soul can choose whether to make Knowledge (arcana) or Knowledge (religion) a class skill. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed.
Note that by my reading you can choose to make either knowledge (arcana) (which already is a class skill) or knowledge (religion) a class skill. At no point it does say that you loose the other as a class skill. So you could have 2 knowledge (arcana) as class skills (don't even know how that would work) or knowledge (arcana) and knowledge (religion) as class skills.
Cool, but can you stick it in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267923) and we'll catch it in the indexing later.
I'll have 33-35 then :smallsmile:
Traps|Too expensive for dungen denizens|1|33
Traps|Cheap way of making magic items|1|33
Frost Helm soulmeld|Gives you a ray attack, of arbitary range, when bound to the Crown Chakra|1|34
Pathfinder|Witch's Ice Tomb Hex|Poorly Written|1|34
Skills|Open Lock|Disable Device can open locks|1|35
Item|Wand of Mnemonic Enhancer|Can give 150 extra spell levels in one day|1|35
Feat|Leadership|Special Creatures as Cohorts: special mounts get +2 and -2|1|35
Feat|Crafting|Sidestep Epic enhancemtn limit*|1|35
I don't own TOM. Can someone classify eggs comments about Flicker's p33 #1014 please ? Is this a feat ? A vestige ? A Banana ?
TuggyNE
2013-01-20, 06:47 PM
I think I'll go 36-40. :smallsmile:
Misc|Area calculations|Pi is wrongly estimated, and diverges increasingly at larger radii|36|3.x
Misc|Sunder|Sundering a worn headband/circlet without injuring its wearer is not especially difficult|36|3.x
Spells|List definitions|"Paladin spell", "Wizard spell", and so on are poorly-defined*|36|3.x
Equipment|Golem manuals|Clay, iron, stone have superfluous spells in their prerequisites compared to the golem listings|37|3.5
Base Class|Sound Striker Bard archetype|No range limit on Wordstrike|38|PF
Spell|Antimagic Field|Doesn't affect melee attacks made from outside the field, but does affect ranged attacks|38|3.x
Base Class|Monk|Tongue of the Sun and Moon doesn't specify being able to understand replies|38|3.x
Monster|Lycanthropes|Knowledge checks to identify are split across two skills, and don't work at all in hybrid form|38|3.x
Base Class|Sha'ir|No actions specified to start spell retrieval|39|3.5
Monster|Protean|Immunities, regeneration bypass not specified, no restriction against picking recursive Alter Forms|39|3.5
Equipment|Gnome crossbow sight|Lower penalties at two range increments than at one|40|3.5
Skill|Survival|Animals don't generally have enough ranks to find their dens or avoid predators|40|3.x
Maneuver|IHS|Ends entire effect, rather than ending it for one target|40|3.5
41 to 43 for me then :smallsmile:
Skills|Speak Language|Animals can speak (well maybe)|1|41
Skills|Survival|By default most animals get lost all the time|1|41
Skills|Knowledge(Local)|Commoners get lost in their home town|1|41
Necropolitan|HD unclear|1|41
clerics|LG clerics can get the Death and Destruction domains|1|41
Spell|Hesitate||Free extra save|1|41
PrC|Fiend-Blooded|Inappropriate pre-reqs|1|42
Half-Fiend Template Class|Smite Good if Evil|1|42
Necropolitans|Necropolitans are healed by Cures and Inflicts, just not the Heal skill|1|42
Misc|Undead|Does negative energy cure them?|1|43
Spell|Affliction|Does extra damage against evil undead, except undead are immune|1|43
Monster|Prismatic Golems|Are Incorporeal Constructs*|1|43
TuggyNE
2013-01-21, 07:13 PM
Skills|Survival|By default most animals get lost all the time|1|41
Think this got mentioned on 40, actually.
Anyway, I'm gonna go ahead and take the last seven pages of the first thread, and then it's on to thread two!
MukkTB
2013-01-21, 07:51 PM
When we discuss RAW how do we treat things that are bad enough to have made it to this list?
TuggyNE
2013-01-21, 08:20 PM
Nedz, you may want to separate out PF-only stuff differently, given the number of items that are also 3.5-only.
Misc|Concealment|Moving into shadows is a good way to avoid being sneak attacked|44|3.x
Misc|Mundane fire|No list or mention of flammable objects, so rocks can burn, but fortunately torches can't necessarily ignite things*|44|3.x
Misc|Hardness|Picks can't actually do much of anything to stone given hardness and rules for piercing weapons|44|3.x
Equipment|Ammunition|A metal shuriken thrown at gelatinous cube (which doesn't harm metal) will still have a 50% chance of being lost/broken*|44|3.x
Misc|Mining rules|High-wisdom low-strength character excavates much faster than high-strength low-wisdom character|45|3.5
Equipment|Soarwood|Heavier than darkwood, despite being used in lighter-than-air craft as the primary lifting source|45|3.5
Equipment|Caltrops|Shoes give special +2 armor bonus, which is then promptly ignored as an armor bonus|45|3.x
Misc|Concealment|One character's darkvision can negate shadow opportunity to hide from others without darkvision|45|3.x
Skill|Profession|No way to key off other ability scores, even if it would make sense (Accountant, Miner, etc)|46|3.x
Monster|Ruby Golem, Revenant template (MoF)|Regeneration specifies how much non-lethal damage it recovers, but both are immune to non-lethal|46|3.0
Monster|Keeper (FF)|Blind, with blindsight, but outsider type gives 60' darkvision|46|3.0
Spell|Planar Binding line|Targeting rules require unspecified exceptions to standards|46|3.x
Power|Telekinetic Maneuver|Bull rush option doesn't specify exceptions to normal mistargeting rules, so it's possible to redirect melee attacks made against the target to you at long distances|47|3.x
Misc|Evasion|Works weirdly with e.g. delayed blast fireball if a bead is swallowed*|47|3.x
Equipment|Grasping Hook (Dungeonscape)|Magic item that costs less than mundane version|48|3.5
Prestige Class|Assassin|Casts spells as a bard, with no exception for silence|49|3.5
Misc|Pounce|Can be either a full attack after a charge attack, or a full attack after a charge move|49|3.5
Misc|Mounted charging|Rider probably isn't actually charging, which breaks lances and all manner of things|49|3.x
I'm amused to note that page 50 had no dysfunctional rules at all.
When we discuss RAW how do we treat things that are bad enough to have made it to this list?
As needing RACSD or similar to function? Not sure exactly what you're asking, but anything that's genuinely dysfunctional can't really be played by RAW; that's basically the definition, in fact.
Think this got mentioned on 40, actually.
I would have caught this in the edit.
Anyway, I'm gonna go ahead and take the last seven pages of the first thread, and then it's on to thread two!
OK - I'll take pages 1-2 of thread 2 then, page 3 is still hot.
Any idea on this one ?
I don't own TOM. Can someone classify eggs comments about Flicker's p33 #1014 please ? Is this a feat ? A vestige ? A Banana ?
When we discuss RAW how do we treat things that are bad enough to have made it to this list?
Post the find into this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267923) thread.
OK - I'll take pages 1-2 of thread 2 then, page 3 is still hot.
That was easy
Feat|Craft Wand|Wand of Identify requires crafter to drink 50 glasses of wine in 1 day|2|1
PrC|Magelord Mastery|Capstone is already possessed|2|1
Still can't see the sun|2|2
Feat|Titan Bloodline|Pixie with the Titan Bloodline can wield a gargantuan Warhammer|2|2
Item|Transport|Horses and Ships have no weight|2|2
Spell|Disguise self|Disguise self cam make timy creatures appear two dimensional|2|2
I'll wait for you two to finish and then I'll fold another 4 sieves into the index
Just waiting for Mattie_p and pages 29-32 and after folding the whole lot into the folder we're done for the time being at least.
I'm not sure what to do about the PF stuff, this is a 3.5 thread really ?
Most Dysfunctional things found so far
Classes: Monk
Template: Necropolitan
Skills: Knowledge
Feat: Crafting
Combat: Surprise, though Mounted Combat is in hot pursuit
Monster: Pixie
Ironically the Dysfunctional thing reported most often was Spot, glad to see everyone here has sharp eyes especially for the moon.
Zetapup
2013-01-21, 09:46 PM
I would have caught this in the edit.
OK - I'll take pages 1-2 of thread 2 then, page 3 is still hot.
Any idea on this one ?
Post the find into this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267923) thread.
Im away from book, but I'm pretty sure flicker is something you cast once, then you have a teleport you can dog each round for a lesser cost. It is this lesser cost ability you can use in response to attacks
I checked my copy of ToM, and Mystify is correct.
I checked my copy of ToM, and Mystify is correct.
So it's a spell !
Excellent, I'll update the index shortly.
I didn't doubt Mystify at all, I just wasn't sure which heading to put it under.
TuggyNE
2013-01-22, 01:52 AM
I would have caught this in the edit.
Yeah, I realized that after I posted....
Anyway, that was a lot less painful than I thought. :smalltongue:
Anyway, that was a lot less painful than I thought. :smalltongue:
Yes, trawling through the thread was fun. More fun than the editing really.
ddude987
2013-01-22, 11:24 PM
I have to disagree with the ride-by-attack not working. There is proof in the phb that both mount and rider are considered charging.
When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance pg. 157
So this is saying that you are charging and are on horseback therefore both you and the mount are considered charging.
The Viscount
2013-01-25, 05:30 PM
Excellent work on cataloging all these dysfunctions. Truly a herculean effort. Minor quibble on the chart: Clerics is written as "Slerics" and Reaping Mauler's entry should be under Prestige Classes.
Claiming 29-32.
Any progress ?
I have to disagree with the ride-by-attack not working. There is proof in the phb that both mount and rider are considered charging.
So this is saying that you are charging and are on horseback therefore both you and the mount are considered charging.
Please take this up in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267923).
Excellent work on cataloging all these dysfunctions. Truly a herculean effort. Minor quibble on the chart: Clerics is written as "Slerics" and Reaping Mauler's entry should be under Prestige Classes.
Thanks I'll be updating them shortly.
TuggyNE
2013-01-29, 09:39 PM
I think I'll catalog 3-6 in the new thread.
So a collected list of things that pedantic people cant get their heads around to think sensibly about. There is some pretty silly stuff listed.
But for example
Monk: No proficiency with unarmed strikes.
Why does it need to list a Specific Proficiency when by the Rules as Written (something the thread should be happy with as its taking whats written to the Nth degree in most cases) show that anyone can make a Unarmed Attack with some difficulty except for the Monk who has Improved Unarmed Strike (There is your proficiency ~ under another name)
noparlpf
2013-01-29, 09:59 PM
So a collected list of things that pedantic people cant get their heads around to think sensibly about. There is some pretty silly stuff listed.
But for example
Monk: No proficiency with unarmed strikes.
Why does it need to list a Specific Proficiency when by the Rules as Written (something the thread should be happy with as its taking whats written to the Nth degree in most cases) show that anyone can make a Unarmed Attack with some difficulty except for the Monk who has Improved Unarmed Strike (There is your proficiency ~ under another name)
1. This is a compendium, the discussion goes in the other thread. See the original post.
2. Holy [expletive] [expletive] we have been up and down this thing and beaten it to death by now. See other thread for ridiculously lengthy argument.
TuggyNE
2013-01-29, 10:32 PM
By the way, Nedz, I'd appreciate it if my hard work cataloging the difference between 3.x-general, 3.5-only, and PF-only was preserved. :smallwink:
Prestige Class|Thief-Acrobat|Uncanny dodge, but only while climbing or balancing*|3|3.5
Prestige Class|Order of the Bow Initiate|Pre-req feat that's useless with main feature, class feature that's inferior to one granted at same level by usual entry base class|3|3.5***
Prestige Class|Order of the Bow Initiate|Terrible skills, but usual entry and customary use requires lots of skills|3|3.5
Spell|Invoke Magic|Doesn't actually say it can be cast in dead/anti-magic*|3|3.5
Feat|Mercurial Strike (DrMag 310)|Triggers when you get an unarmed AoO, but you can't make AoOs while unarmed|3|3.5
Misc|Multiclassing|You can pick up a first level of Wizard at an earlier age if you take a less-skilled class first|3|3.x
Item|Spell component pouch|Contains (by strict interpretation of "no listed price" rule) multiple artifacts (including those larger than the pouch's owner), a piece of every god in existence, a tuning fork for every plane, and so on|4|3.x
Skill|Forgery, Decipher Script|Illiterate Barbarian can make checks with no penalty (Forgery isn't trained-only, and Decipher Script needs no literacy)|4|3.5
Skill|Use Magic Device|Illiterate Barbarian can make checks to active scrolls with no penalty|4|3.x
Misc|Positive Energy Plane|Natives are unable to breathe in the airlessness of the plane|5|3.5
Monster|Marut|Designed for hunting liches and other death-cheaters, but liches are largely immune to the signature fists of thunder and lightning and their DR is effective against non-magic slams|5|3.x
Monster|Demons|Often have darkness SLA, but racial darkvision is ineffective in it, so babau etc can't sneak attack|6|3.5
*** I don't recall whether this is a result of the 3.5 update or was like that already in 3.0 or what.
Off-topic on IUS:
But for example
Monk: No proficiency with unarmed strikes.
Why does it need to list a Specific Proficiency when by the Rules as Written (something the thread should be happy with as its taking whats written to the Nth degree in most cases) show that anyone can make a Unarmed Attack with some difficulty except for the Monk who has Improved Unarmed Strike (There is your proficiency ~ under another name)
Yeah... logically, of course, the Monk should be proficient. However, IUS doesn't call itself proficiency, canceling the penalty for doing lethal damage with a usually non-lethal weapon (or vice versa) is not proficiency, the text in a non-primary source does not take precedence over the table in a primary source, and so on.
Basically, the rules are written poorly enough that there's a plausible argument to be made they don't actually work right. That's good enough for a Type I dysfunction (i.e., requires a bit of common sense to fix a clear error in literal rules).
1. This is a compendium, the discussion goes in the other thread. See the original post.
2. Holy [expletive] [expletive] we have been up and down this thing and beaten it to death by now. See other thread for ridiculously lengthy argument.
Pedantic list is a pedantic list no matter what you call it.
I'm not interested in a lengthy thread or discussion.
It was a choice out of many many other silly things listed on the list. There is reading the rules and then there is reading the rules and throwing commonsense out the window when understanding what the ink on the page means.
(i.e., requires a bit of common sense to fix a clear error in literal rules)
Commonsense is a frequently lacking ability when it comes to gamers of all stripes.
mattie_p
2013-01-30, 12:17 AM
Any progress ?
I should have them posted by Friday. I've been out of town for a while with job interviews, which are all wrapped up now. So I'll have some time again.
TuggyNE
2013-01-30, 02:36 AM
Commonsense is a frequently lacking ability when it comes to gamers of all stripes.
I am well aware; I've worked on a number of projects on these boards to either compensate or correct for the lack of general common sense. In point of fact, this is one of them: collecting a list of "you need at least a bit of common sense to deal with these" problems is helpful in driving home that they need fixing, and perhaps help teach people what is meant by common sense in the first place. If anything, the fact that all these problems require some common sense to identify is a good argument for collecting them instead of leaving them to the dubious mercies of individual DMs or groups.
By the way, Nedz, I'd appreciate it if my hard work cataloging the difference between 3.x-general, 3.5-only, and PF-only was preserved. :smallwink:
That's a fair point, but we don't have that information for all of the sievings:
So it's a lot of hard work either way. I will look at doing something with this.
So a collected list of things that pedantic people cant get their heads around to think sensibly about. There is some pretty silly stuff listed.
You can view this list as compulsory house rules.
TuggyNE
2013-01-30, 06:58 AM
That's a fair point, but we don't have that information for all of the sievings:
So it's a lot of hard work either way. I will look at doing something with this.
Hmm, fair enough. Hate to have to run back through them, but that might be the best....
You can view this list as compulsory house rules.
Or, at any rate, a list of houserules that need to be compiled. (RACSD (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13092074#post13092074) is more "prefab houserules with proofreading" than this is.)
Hmm, fair enough. Hate to have to run back through them, but that might be the best....
I'll try and include what we have next time I update the index. This will probably be over the weekend.
Sith_Happens
2013-01-30, 08:53 AM
Personally, I'd suggest changing the thread title to [3.5] Complete Dysfunction: A Player's Guide to Stuff that Doesn't Work Right. Just because.:smallbiggrin:
Pages 3-6 now catalogued.
Version column added and populated where known.
The Viscount
2013-02-07, 07:47 PM
Mattie p seems busy, so I'll do 29-32. Sorry if I'm stepping on any toes.
Base Class|Truenamer(ToM)|Truenaming DCs too difficult to reasonably make without optimization|1|30|3.5
Feat|Psicrystal Affinity(XPH)|No way to recover destroyed psicrystal without retrain/DCFS|1|30|3.5
Feat|Focused Lexicon(ToM)|Increases DCs for utterances by 1, not save DCs|1|32|3.5
Miscellaneous|Sleeping|No penalty for not sleeping for non-casters|1|30|
Miscellaneous|Dragonscale Husk ACF|Does not stack with any "feat, racial trait, or special ability" so does not stack with natural armor; does not list bonus type|1|31|3.5
Skills|Size Penalties and Bonuses|Apply to Hide, but not Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, etc*|1|30|3.5
Monsters|Elder Brain|Can disguise self well enough to fool others*|1|30|3.5
Monsters|Phasm|When advanced in HD, size changes from Medium to Huge|1|31|3.5
Combat|Prone|Prevents one from casting spells that require a ranged attack|1|31|
Combat|Fatigue and exhaustion|Fatigued characters cannot run or charge, but exhausted characters can|1|31|
That's all of them. Feel free to not include any that don't seem dysfunctional enough. One or two dysfunctions were cleared up by errata, so I did not reproduce them here. Is the procedure on dysfunction cleared by errata to ignore?
TuggyNE
2013-02-07, 08:21 PM
One or two dysfunctions were cleared up by errata, so I did not reproduce them here. Is the procedure on dysfunction cleared by errata to ignore?
Yeah, if errata fixed it, there's no need to call attention to the previous brokenness (except to note that errata are a thing). Give 'em credit for the occasional fixes they did actually manage. :smallwink:
Deepbluediver
2013-03-02, 11:27 AM
I love homebrewing stuff to fix problems with the game, so this is a fantastic resource. Thanks everyone!
mattie_p
2013-03-02, 11:30 AM
Mattie p seems busy, so I'll do 29-32. Sorry if I'm stepping on any toes.
Is the procedure on dysfunction cleared by errata to ignore?
Nope, glad you did it, I feel bad about dropping the ball, but I've been traveling for the past month, things are finally settling down.
Yeah, if errata closes the dysfunction, feel free to ignore.
Thanks, I was about to step into this breach but no need now.
I'll update the indecies presently.
It might be worth including things which have been cleared up just so that we have a reference index to the debate ? Well, maybe ?
TuggyNE
2013-03-02, 05:15 PM
It might be worth including things which have been cleared up just so that we have a reference index to the debate ? Well, maybe ?
You could if you want. I don't think there are too many of those, though.
Incidentally, we've gotten pretty far behind in the new thread; I think I'll grab 7-10. :smallwink:
We have haven't we.
I'll take 11-14 then.
Monk proficiency with unarmed weapons |2|11-14
Combat|Disarm|Disarming a Zombie improves it's damage per attack|2|11|3.PF
Feats|Blazing Berserker and Frozen Berserker|Gains fire and cold subtypes|2|11|3.PF
Templates|Half X/Y or Half Y/X|Do you apply Half X to Y or Half Y to X ?|2|12|3.5
PrC|Death Master|Trouble with Incorporeal minions|2|12|3.5
Equip|Ranged Weapons|Gargantuan Longbow and a Diminutive Longbow have the same range|2|12|3.5
Combat|Sneak Attack|Melee can get sneak damage at more than 30'|2|12|3.5
Monster|Devils|Chain devils are immune to cold.Ice devils aren't|2|13|3.5
Base|Knight|Knight's Shield Block ability doesn't require use of a shield|2|13|3.5
Base|Drow ACFs|Don't require you to be a Drow|2|13|3.5
Equip|Exotic Shields|Don't require a seperate Proficiency|2|13|3.5
PrC|Shade Hunter|Requires FE(shades), shades do not exist|2|13|3.5
Spell|Gate|Cannot call outsiders from their own lane|2|14|3.5
Spell|Dismissal/Banishment|Dismissal is lower level than Banishment but can be more powerful|2|14|3.5
TuggyNE
2013-03-02, 08:14 PM
7-10, a bit belatedly, but that's how it goes. :smalltongue:
Combat|Grapple|Can't start multiple grapple attempts unless BAB +6 or better, even if hasted or flurrying|2|7|3.5
Combat|Grapple|Not allowed to use Su abilities in grapple (among other possible problems)|2|7|3.PF
Skill|Craft|1/3 price for raw materials may not cover cost of materials|2|7|3.PF
Movement|Falling|Falling off a cliff, stalling in flight, and jumping down all have different speeds and do not reference each other|2|7|3.5
Movement|Falling|Dropping prone in your square immediately lands you on the ground with no damage taken no matter how far|2|7|3.PF
Equipment|Sai|-4 to disarm checks from light weapon cancels out +4 to disarm checks for being designed to disarm|2|7|3.5
Spell|Revive Undead|Target is "destroyed undead", but requires "intact body"|2|8|3.5
Spell|Inflict/Cure X Wounds|Doesn't mention needing a touch attack to deal damage*|2|8|3.5
PrC|Elocater|Immune to falling damage?|2|8|3.PF
PrC|Elocater|Slows native fly speeds to 10'/round|2|8|3.5
Spell|Revive Undead|Can't revive incorporeal undead (nothing to touch?)|2|9|3.5
Equipment|Spyglass|Makes objects appear a mere 40' closer|2|9|3.PF
Misc|Starvation/Thirst|Can't starve to death, and can't die of thirst in Core either, or if you're not in a desert-ish environment|2|10|3.5
PrC|Eldritch Disciple|Makes healing ranged touch attacks, but no obvious provision to auto-accept those|2|10|3.5
Also, taking 15-20 in a bit.
ShurikVch
2013-03-03, 09:40 AM
Spell|Revive Undead|Target is "destroyed undead", but requires "intact body"|2|8|3.5
Fixed with the spell Total Repair.
Spell|Revive Undead|Can't revive incorporeal undead (nothing to touch?)|2|9|3.5
Spell Forced Manifestation can help...
Also, taking 15-20 in a bit.
OK I'll update the index when this is done.
TuggyNE
2013-03-03, 08:06 PM
Equipment|Garrote (Song and Silence)|Can't use Death Attack, requires grapple on classes that are terrible at grappling|2|15|3.5
PrC|Blighter (CDiv)|Have Speak With Dead Animal, but no way to actually communicate with animals lacking a language (all of them, in short)|2|16|3.5
Combat|Grapple|Helpless creatures don't auto-fail grapple checks|2|16|3.PF
Monster|Earth elemental (MM)|No tremorsense, so blind while earth gliding|2|16|3.5
Monster|Desmoderu Hunting Bat/War Bat (MMII)|Blindsense, and no other vision mode, so total concealment against all targets in the dark|2|16|3.5
Monster|Amethyst Dragon (MMII)|Bonus on saving throws against force effects; listed example doesn't allow save|2|16|3.5
Monster|Zombie (MM)|After an active zombie has rotted long enough, it appears to be a skeleton, but retains its own stats|2|17|3.PF
PrC|Totem Rager|Grants literacy|2|17|3.5
Spell|Anger of the Noonday Sun|Targets sighted creatures, but has rules for affecting oozes/fungi|2|17|3.5
Spell|Bestow Greater Curse|Transmutation, instead of Necromancy|2|17|3.5
Equipment|Stone Salve (DMG)|Has flesh to stone prerequisite, despite reversing the process|2|18|3.5
Combat|Bullrush|Large creature rushing a line of medium must fit into two squares, but can't|2|18|3.5
Monster|Glaistig|Can't move more than 100' from pool, but has LA|2|19|3.5
Monster|Vivacious creatures|If aura suppressed, 1 Str damage/round, but has no Str score|2|19|3.5
PrC|Chaotician (PlH)|Babble 1/day with no listed duration|2|20|3.5
PrC|Sand Shaper|Can make items in negative time|2|20|3.5
Monster|Cat|No ranks in Tumble, so accidental falls will usually kill them|2|20|3.PF
Race|Elf|Immune to ghoul's touch, but not ghoul touch|2|20|3.PF
Also, the bit about elephants being good at jumping is apparently belied by a line in the MM about them specifically being bad at jumping.
Fixed with the spell Total Repair.
Spell Forced Manifestation can help...
Post those in the other thread, eh?
The Viscount
2013-03-04, 01:24 AM
Fixed with the spell Total Repair.
Spell Forced Manifestation can help...
You are welcome to bring these to this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267923) where they are open for discussion, but this is just the compilation.
Edit: ninja'd by tuggyne. It was using the text above for cover.
Second edit: Hey, I figured out how to format my earlier post! That should make matters simpler.
OK I've updated the Collection
Highlights
1st entry for a Race
1st entry for Truenamer - surely we have slipped up here ?
noparlpf
2013-03-04, 06:41 AM
OK I've updated the Collection
Highlights
1st entry for a Race
1st entry for Truenamer - surely we have slipped up here ?
I think everyone just assumed the Truenamer went without saying.
Deepbluediver
2013-03-04, 11:12 AM
I think everyone just assumed the Truenamer went without saying.
Everyone assumed that the Truenamer was such an obvious choice that someone else would have said it first. :smallwink:
But otherwise, the list is mostly LITTLE things that are either quirky or dysfunctional, whereas the Truenamer is an entire class that, at best, functions poorly and/or is difficult as hell to keep relevant. (I recall reading a thread on this board where one person forced themselves to play it just for the experience, and highlighted most of it's few good points)
Edit: also, I'm not certain I understand the issue about the elf-racial immunity :smallconfused:
noparlpf
2013-03-04, 12:52 PM
Everyone assumed that the Truenamer was such an obvious choice that someone else would have said it first. :smallwink:
But otherwise, the list is mostly LITTLE things that are either quirky or dysfunctional, whereas the Truenamer is an entire class that, at best, functions poorly and/or is diificult as hell to keep relevant. (I recall reading a thread on this board where one person forced themselves to play it just for the experience, and highlighted most of it's few good points)
I played one once in a 16th level one-shot with a low-op group. Turns out with high levels of optimisation they can keep up with poorly-built characters from functional classes.
The Viscount
2013-03-04, 09:24 PM
I was also surprised when compiling from page 30 that we hadn't included Truenamer yet.
Minor quibble again, the gate description should say "plane" and not "lane."
This handbook is I think one of the better things to come out of the playground.
TuggyNE
2013-03-04, 09:36 PM
Edit: also, I'm not certain I understand the issue about the elf-racial immunity :smallconfused:
The italics in ghoul touch got left out by mistake; the thing is that while elves are immune to the paralysis of a ghoul (but not a ghast), they're not immune to the paralysis of the ghoul touch spell.
The Viscount
2013-03-14, 10:19 PM
I'll take pages 21-25, inclusive. As always, feel free to leave whatever you don't feel is dysfunctional.
Base Class|Dread Necromancer(HoH)|Has poison, a spell with a save keyed off of Wis in a class that casts off Cha*|2|21|3.5
PrC|Topaz Guardian(LoM)|NPC has 10 levels of a 5 level class|2|21|3.5
Spell|Freedom of Movement|Has a somatic component, caster cannot free self|2|21|3.5
PrC|Bladesinger(CWar)|Gives ability to cast quickened spell without changing casting time|2|21|3.5
Maneuver|Iron Heart Surge|Requires ability to move; cannot undo many statuses that prevent movement*|2|21|3.5
Feat|Vow of Abstinence|Gives bonus on saves against poisons and drugs, lost if one fails save against drug*|2|21|3.5
Base Class|Swordsage|Gains 6 times normal skills at first level instead of 4 times|2|21|3.5
Spell|Awaken|Animates Trees, but gives them no constitution score|2|21|3.5
Races|Dvati|Too, poorly defined, e.g. dragonborn Dvati; 1 being or 2?|2|23|3.5
PrC|Runescarred Berserker(UA)|Impossible to qualify for|2|23|
Monster|Undead Swarms|Distraction Save DCs are Con based|2|23|3.5
Spell|Mirror Move|Spell can consume armor, entire oceans as material components|2|24|3.5
Spell|Giant Vermin|Does not specifically make vermin Monstrous, no stats for non-Monstrous|2|24|3.5
Monster|Bleakborn(LM)|Cannot be destroyed with hp damage|2|24|3.5
PrC|Seeker of the Misty Isle|Gives bonus to non-class skills|2|24|3.5
PrC|Vigilante|Allows feint as a move action, does not have bluff as a class skill|2|24|3.5
Spell|Snake's Swiftness|Can be used to prevent creatures from making more than one additional attack per round|2|24|3.5
Templates|Lich|Grants bonus to listen, even if ears have rotted away*|2|25|3.5
Monsters|Dragons|Qualify for anything that requires dragonblood subtype, no mention of meeting other prerequisites|2|25|3.5
TentacleSurpris
2013-03-24, 03:22 PM
There are two rules that bug me:
1. Track. You can only track at half speed. So you're travelling corss country at a speed of 15' while your quarry is moving at 30', all other things equal, you never catch them. You never catch anything!
2. Arcane spell failure and shields. A heavy steel shield has an ASF of 15% on Somantic spells in the equipme t chapter, the requirement for somantic spells in the spells chapter is one hand FREE. So you can't cast at all, never mind the 15%. But wait, what about divine spells, can you cast them while holding your heavy shield, as most of the dnd artwork showing paladins and clerics indicates? Not according to the 'one hand free rule'. But what about a wizard with a shield in one hand, but nothing in the other, he has one hand totally free, but still has 15% chance to fail the magical gestures, which doesn't apply if one hand is free and the other is holding a weapon or is severed at the bloody wrist.
Bonus:
3. Shields and weapons. If you are sword and boarding, you have a +2 AC. If you're disarmed, you get -4 AC for not having a melee weapon. So you're better off declaring your shield as a weapon than as a shield, because it will negate -4 AC which is better than its own +2, but then you lose your shield bonus against ranged attacks, even though the shield is still there
mattie_p
2013-03-24, 04:38 PM
There are two rules that bug me:
1. Track.
2. Arcane spell failure and shields.
3. Shields and weapons.
These should properly go in the Dysfunctional Rules Collection Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267923). This thread is exclusively for the summary of all the discovered dysfunctions, not for discussion of the individual dysfunctions. We'll discuss there.
OK I've added the next tranche to the Collection.
I've also updated the Category page with a table showing how many of each type we have found.
The grand total is 258 Dysfunctions over one and a half threads.
OK, I'm going to pick up pages 26-30
ALL EXAMPLE CHARACTERS in a nice big 72pt font in the dysfunction archive|2|29|3.0
Skills|PH is ambiguous on the subject of untrained skills*|2|26|3.5
PrC|Survivor class from savage species can counter its own pre-reqs*|2|26|3.5
*Spell*|Invoke Magic doesn't work|2|26|3.5
PrC|Dragon Compendium, Shaper of Form Renaissance ability is poorly defined|2|26|3.5
Race|Elves sleep like everyone else|2|26|3.5
Item|With a Scrying shard anyone can cast scry. It's supposed to just be a portable focus|2|27|3.5
Psionic|Lion's Charge: Lasts forever, doesn't grant Pounce|2|27|3.5
PrC|Dragonborn paladin may not know who to smite|2|27|3.5
Feat|Vow of Purity prevents you from casting all manner of spells|2|28|3.5
PrC|Tainted (from Dragon #302) is another Schrφdinger's PrC|2|28|3.5
Feat|Martial Strike allows infinite healing|2|28|3.5
Spell|Absorb mind/body require youto consume the focus|2|29|3.5
Monster|Hairy spiders (3.5 update to monsters of faerun) have LA of +0 as vermin|2|29|3.5
Item|Fire lance is more useful when it's broken|2|29|3.PF
PrC|Lion of Talisid has dysfunctional Wild Shape|2|29|3.0
Maneuver|Many ToB Maneuvers only work when you have an enemy target|2|29|3.5
Combat|Grapple: Infinite characters can be in the same square and move with infinite speed|2|29|3.5
Misc|Walking is more tiring than combat|2|29|3.5
Spell|Opalescent glare[SpC]: Infinte duration|2|30|3.5
PrC|Jade Phoenix Mage does not progress pre-req skills|2|30|3.5
Base|Dread Necromancer can cast corrupt spells only it has none|2|30|3.5
I'll update the collection shortly
The Viscount
2013-05-04, 05:33 PM
I'll take 31-35.
Quick note: Death Master should be under Base Classes, not Prestige Classes; Desmoderu Hunting Bat should be Desmodu. [/nitpick]
Misc|Armor imposes ASF, but gauntlets do not|2|31|3.5
Misc|Ability Scores|NPCs can have Int<3*|2|32|3.5
Misc|Forced March|Nonlethal damage is healed as faster than it comes after level 6|2|33|3.5
Base Class|Knight|Code of Honor does not forbid poison, unlike Paladin's Code;Knights cannot deliver coups de grace*|2|31|3.5
Power|Psionic Dimension Door|Can be used as move action, but cannot act afterwards|2|31|3.5
Spell|Baleful Polymorph|Creatures with shapechanger subtype can revert back to natural form, but lose subtype if changed|2|32|3.5
Spell|Uncanny Forethought|Allows casting of spells as full round action, even if normal casting time is longer|2|32|3.5
Combat|Death from Massive Damage|Impractically low threshold*|2|32|3.5
Template|Lich|Fear Aura incapable of affecting appropriate level PCs or animal companions|2|32|3.5
Monster|Badger|If it survives combat, rages until death*|2|35|3.5
Edit: Oh dear. I'm very sorry. I didn't see you there, tuggyne. Removed the duplicates
TuggyNE
2013-05-04, 06:51 PM
36-40, here I come! :smallamused:
Archetype|Wanderer Monk|Longstrider SLA doesn't stack with Fast Movement|2|36|PF
Base Class|Sha'ir|Starting gear is not enough to summon gen, required for any casting|2|36|3.5
Spell|Sanctify the Wicked (BoED)|Applies a template to any evil creature, even those that the template cannot be applied to|2|36|3.5
Template|Sanctified (BoED)|Has text explaining what happens to tanar'ri, baatezu, yugoloth subtypes, but template cannot be applied to any creature with those subtypes|2|36|3.5
Monster|Barghest (MMI)|"Can claw and bite" in any form, but can't "use any natural weapons" in goblin form|2|36|3.5
Monster|Locathah (MMI)|Entry states it has no teeth, but picture clearly shows prominent teeth|2|36|3.5
Monster|Myrmixicus|Wields four same-size scythes in four arms with no special ability to do so|2|36|3.5
Base|Crusader (ToB)|Doesn't qualify for Diehard*|2|36|3.5
Race|Lupin (DrC)|MonHu, but allegedly descended from one or another Humanoid race*|2|37|3.5
Prestige|Sacred Fist|Code of conduct forbids them from using weapons (including unarmed strike)|2|37|3.5
Monster|Steel Dragon|Likes to blend in with humanoids, but has to use 1 min/level polymorph to do so|2|37|3.5
Prestige|Pale Master|Undead Graft prosthetic arm gives, among other things, bonus to Jump, resisting trips, and so on|2|38|3.5
Spell|Meld into Stone (PHB)|Doesn't give you the ability to breathe in stone|2|38|3.PF
Prestige|Renegade Mastermaker|Gives (Living Construct) as capstone type; may disqualify itself if it becomes Construct (Living Construct)|2|38|3.5
Spell|Polymorph etc|Disallow changing into forms smaller than Fine, but there aren't any such possible, because Fine includes everything smaller than Diminutive|2|39|3.5
Base|Dread Necromancer|Negative energy burst can harm the DN|2|39|3.5
Combat|Tower shield|No rules/penalties for using a tower shield while mounted|2|39|3.PF
Skill|Tumble|Can Tumble while wearing tower shield, maybe even while gaining total cover|2|39|3.PF
Prestige|Shadow Thief of Amn|Bonus feat list at 2nd includes prerequisite|2|40|3.5
Skill|Spellcraft|Can identify all discernible illusions with a fairly low DC*|2|40|3.5
Prestige|Kensai (CW)|Instill ability can push BAB above normal cap|2|40|3.5
The Viscount
2013-05-12, 01:50 AM
I'm doing 41-45.
Spell|Repair X Damage|Newest version only allows healing if target has >0 hp, so no usage on disabled living constructs|2|41|3.5
Spell|Awaken Undead|Allows skeleton to regain abilities that depend on organs*|2|43|3.5
Spell|Explosive Runes|Damages "anyone close enough to read them" so can damage creatures very far away if they have spyglasses or the like*|2|44|3.5
Class|Monk|Both can and cannot use unarmed strikes in flurry of blows|2|42|3.5
Skill|Track|Requires DC 60 check to identify kind of creature from tracks*|2|45|3.5
Misc|Lava and Magma|Fire resist 1 provides immunity to magma and lava; can drown in lava, but not magma; only creatures immune to fire can drown in lava|2|42|3.5
Misc|Slow Suffocation|Small amounts of healing can negate it indefinitely|2|42|3.5
Misc|Heavy Smoke|Creatures that produce heavy smoke vulnerable to their own smoke effect|2|42|3.5
Misc|Regeneration|Vorpal weapons cannot kill unless the right type of damage|2|42|3.5
Misc|Senses|Undead can use a sense until they lose the sensory organ, skeletons have no sensory organs*|2|43|3.5
Monster|Protean|Nothing overcomes its regeneration; can and cannot shift into incorporeal forms|2|43|3.5
Monster|Succubus|Has bonus to disguise when using alter self, does not have alter self|2|44|3.5
Soulmeld|Incarnate Weapon|Does nothing if neutral character learns by shape soulmeld|2|44|3.5
Soulmeld|Various|Give fly speed equal to 5*essentia invested, if 0 invested, can hover|2|45|3.5
I'll do 46-50, and then compose the whole lot then.
Skill|Tracking|You can track a creature without knowing what it is|2|46|3.5
Combat|Feint|-4 against humanoids|2|46|3.5
Equipment|Armour|Defined by type not body shape|2|46|3.5
Spell|Shivering Touch|It's damage has a duration|2|47|3.5
Equipment|Armour|Crafting rules error|2|48|3.5
Combat|Thrown Weapons|Range does not depend on Strength|2|48|3.5
Combat|Splitting Raptor arrows|Splitting bow and Raptor arrows interaction|2|48|3.5
Creature|Nezumi|Nezumi can't speak Common|2|48|3.5
Creature|Familiers|Familiers can have LA, but you still can't play them|2|49|3.5
Class|Ranger|Favoured Enemy issues|2|49|3.5
Creature|Flayerspawn Psychic|Channels power points into Illithid Blast, but how ?|2|49|3.5
Class|Soulbow| Soulbow doesn't stack with Soulknife for special ability bonuses|2|49|3.5
Misc|Carrying|Grappling ignores weight when moving|2|49|3.5
Misc|Carrying|Items in bags of holding etc. still count against capacity|2|49|3.5
Combat|Fear|Effects can be permanent|2|49|3.5
Index complete up to the end of thread 2.
Monk and Dread Necromancer now tie on 4 dysfunctions each. Be careful about playing a grappling monk however, since Grapple has six dysfunctions.
Quick note: Death Master should be under Base Classes, not Prestige Classes; Desmoderu Hunting Bat should be Desmodu. [/nitpick]
Thanks for catching these fixed now.
The Viscount
2013-05-26, 08:09 PM
I've got 1-5 of 3.
Race|Shifter|Razorclaw trait doesn't function like normal natural attacks|3|1|3.5
Item|Bag of Holding|Suffocates creatures in 10 minutes, regardless of size or number of creatures; creatures that don't breath air or have bottle of air still have 10 minutes|3|1|3.P
Monster|Undead|Can speak and use spells with verbal components, even if they don't have vocal chords.*|3|2|3.5
Monster|Lycanthrope|Cannot assume form of templated creature, its own forms are those of a templated creature.|3|5|3.5
Class|Swordsage|Has incorrect BA in chart|3|2|3.5
Template|Several|If type is changed, different knowledge skill for same information*|3|2|3.5
Template|Symbiote|Allows swarms to be added; other problems|3|4|3.5
Misc|Tripping and Falling Prone|Both function as normal in water, if you fall prone in the air you teleport to the ground|3|3|3.5
Misc|Falling Objects|No rules for falling creatures, objects less than one pound cause no damage|3|4|3.5
Spell|Deafening blast|Deafens caster as well as enemies|3|5|3.5
MirddinEmris
2013-05-27, 12:17 AM
Actually, you can make Ride-By charge attack and move after.
You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Heres what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you cant charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you cant charge. (Helpless creatures dont stop a charge.)
Closest space, depending on your position, doesn't have to be right next to your opponent, especially, if you have reach (and lance have). Let's say, that a Paladin Paladinson, Sir Charge-A-Lot have Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, he is mounted (for a sake of simplicity let's assume that he is a halfling on a medium mount), wield lance and begins in a C5 square (X). In a E1 there stand poor Mooky McMookerty (O) and it's not his turn. From a description of a Charge action first what our paladin have to do is move to the closest space from which he can attack, which is a C3 square marked by asterisk (remember, that he has a lance - reach weapon), then attack and can continue (per Ride-By Attack feat) straight line of movement up to double that of his mount. He can do that even without reach weapon, though it's more restrictive that way, and do not provoke AoO from target of his charge.
Granted, that you couldn't always move like this, but it's makes it rather situational feat than dysfunctional (wouldn't be the first one for melee guys :) ). Oh, and if you kill your opponent or knocked him out, you could totally move through his square.
{table=head]A|B|C|D|E|F|G
1| | | |O| |
2| | | | | |
3| | * | | | |
4| | | | | |
5| |X| | | |
[/table]
MirddinEmris
2013-05-27, 12:31 AM
I don't think that +32 in Colossal vs Fine is dysfunctional, after all, grapple check comes after successful touch attack, which can be very difficult. So, this bonus used after "I've got you!" moment.
What i would call dysfunctional is that attacks keyed of strength and the bigger the monster is, the MORE PRECISE his attacks are (Str bonus grows more quickly that size penalty), so they have no trouble making aforementioned touch attacks.
The Viscount
2013-05-27, 12:32 AM
You'll want to take it up in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283778&page=8), friend. This one is just for compilation.
OK, updated the index.
Incidental we already had the falling, though not the tripping.
The Viscount
2013-06-01, 06:21 PM
I'll do 6-10 of 3.
PrC|Disciple of Ashardalon|Becomes Outsider at 12th level, becoming vulnerable to frightful presence*|3|6|3.5
PrC|Apostle of Peace|Entry mentions use of protective magic items; character is prevented by Vow of Poverty, a pre-req*|3|7|3.5
PrC|Corrupt Avenger|Fear aura renders shaken with no duration; gets aura that "unnerves", -4 penalty on things stacks with shaken|3|7|3.5
PrC|Master Transmogrifist|Has abilities that work on favored shapes assumed by spells such ss alter self and shapechange,former cannot be used to assume a favored shape, latter cannot be cast by MT|3|7|3.5
PrC|Scarlet Corsair|Frightful Lunge renders target shaken with no duration|3|7|3.5
PrC|Walker in the Waste|Allows for creation of Salt Mummies, with no mention of how, with what, out of what, or how quickly|3|9|3.5
PrC|Divine Mind|Pain and Suffering Mantle gives +1 on weapon damage rolls against "wounded" foes, does not define wounded|3|9|3.5
Feat|Willing Deformity (Hands) and (Mouth)|Deal same damage for all size categories|3|6|3.5
Monster|Undead in HoH|Can beresurrected if willing, no mention of requiring destruction|3|7|3.5
Monster|Wyvern|Has full attack including wings and talons, states can only use talons in a flyby attack|3|7|3.5
Monster|Velroc|Has full attack of 4 talons at 4 iteratives|3|7|3.5
Template|Tainted Minion|Fear aura renders shaken with no duration|3|7|3.5
Template|Unholy Scion|Gains ability scores and SLAs keyed off of HD when a fetus, no indication of how many HD a fetus has|3|7|3.5
Template|Vampire|Can be killed by a stake through the heart, no mention of how to do this|3|10|3.5
Equipment|Deity specific holy symbols|Some grant bonus to caster level when turning or rebuking, which does not depend on caster level|3|6|3.5
Equipment|Mithral Chain Shirt, Elven Chain, Mithral Breastplate of Speed|Give Medium creatures 30ft (20ft for breastplate) movement speed and Small creatures 20ft (15 for breastplate) movement speed, no exceptions.
Equipment|Fire Coral Poison|Nauseates with no duration|3|8|3.5
Equipment|Flying Carpet|Different sizes have different densities|3|10|3.5
Base Class|Death Master|Allows extraction of approx 1 pint of blood from a Diminutive or Fine creature*; allows wizard to copy spells from death masters' spellbooks instead of death masters from death masters|3|6|3.5
Base Class|Dread Necromancer|May or may not have access to Fire in the Blood and Oath of Blood|3|7|3.5
Base Class|Alchemist|Defoliant Bomb deals extra damage to plants, but is poison effect, which plants are immune to|3|8|3.P
Race|Darfellan|May or may not have aquatic and darfellan subtypes; may or may not have bonus on handle animal|3|7|3.5
Spell|Wish|Can wish for magical item without regards to cost|3|8|3.5
Spell|Web|Unclear what happens to creature who enters web after it was cast|3|8|3.5
Spell|Slow|Unclear what is meant by "normal" speed|3|8|3.5
Spell|Mass Curse of Ill Fortune|Is a necromancy spell, but Curse of Ill Fortune is transmutation|3|9|3.5
Spell|Dark Way|RAI for bridges, can make walls, effect exceeds range|3|9|3.5
Spell|Gust of Wind|Effect can exceed range|3|10|3.5
Misc|Killing a Fiend|Always a good act, veterans of the Blood War are evil outsiders who have killed many fiends|3|7|3.5
Misc|Flying|Quadrupeds can carry more than bipeds when flying|3|9|3.5
Misc|Armor Check Penalty|Even the most restrictive of clothes impose no ACP*|3|10|3.5
Misc|Armor|Within a size category, almost all armor is one size fits all|3|10|3.5
Sgt. Cookie
2013-06-05, 11:50 AM
The "Feint" description is improperly worded. It should be "Non-Humanoids can feint Humanoids at no penalty, but take a -4 penalty against their own type"
I'll do 6-10 of 3.
Updated Thanks
The "Feint" description is improperly worded. It should be "Non-Humanoids can feint Humanoids at no penalty, but take a -4 penalty against their own type"
Thanks there is a lot of this stuff to proof-read.:smallsmile:
The Viscount
2013-06-30, 01:38 PM
I've got 11-15 of thread 3.
Base Class|Inquisitor|Possibly weaker as multiclass cleric than with no cleric levels*|3|12|PF
Base Class|Divine Mind|Gets PP at level 1, but has nothing to spend them on|3|15|3.5
PrC|Drunken Master|Deals extra 1d12 with improvised weapons, even if improvised weapons are heavy enough to deal more damage|3|11|3.5
PrC|Necrocarnate|Necrocarnum Soulshield has no listed duration|3|13|3.5
PrC|Radiant Servant of Pelor|Is worse at healing at levels 6-9 than at earlier levels|3|15|3.5
Monster|Molydeus|Attack routine is problematic, bites either 2 or 3 times in full attack|12|3.5
Monster|Solar|A Chaotic Good Solar can have access to the Law Domain|3|13|3.5
Monster|Terlen|Cannot breath underwater|3|14|3.5
Monster|Blighted Bloodfire Ooze|Loses ooze traits, though it is still oozelike|3|14|3.5
Equipment|Armor|Within a size category is one size fits all|3|12|3.5
Equipment|Magical Ranged Weapons|The way properties act on weapons and their ammunition is dysfunctional; you can generate arbitrary number of magical arrows, then sell them for a profit|3|13|3.5
Skill|Sleight of Hand|Can be used to conceal Spellcasting, foes detect whispers with Spot*|3|13|3.5
Skill|Sleight of Hand|Foes can notice theft with Spot, but cannot stop it from happening|3|13|3.5
Misc|Ability Scores|Ability modifiers of higher than 5 may be impossible|3|11|3.5
Misc|Ability Damage|A creature with Dex 0 may or may not be paralyzed, as the condition|3|14|3.5
Misc|Magic/Psionics Transparency|May or may not apply when crafting items|3|14|3.5
Misc|Positive Levels|Do not affect undead properly|3|15|3.5
Spell|Geas/Quest|Average damage inflicted if prevented from acting is less than damage healed every day*|3|13|3.5
Spell|Oath of Blood|Significantly cheaper than Create Undead, Geas may no longer be in effect*|3|13|3.5
Spell|Shieldbearer|Can travel infinite distance to protect a creature instantly|3|14|3.5
Spell|Vile Spells|Some require both Undead and Fiend|3|15|3.5
Maneuver|Mithral Tornado and Adamantine Hurricane|May or may not function with reach weapons, only extend to adjacent squares*|3|14|3.5
Feat|Invest Armor|Increases armor bonus by 3 indefinitely|3|14|3.5
Template|Telthor|Creature cannot leave certain area, but LA+2|3|14|3.5
Template|Lycanthrope|Can change type to things like CE, even though all animals are N| 3|15|3.5
Two simple ones: Evil Wild defenders (Ranger Variant) get smite evil.
A barbarian in the middle of a dungeon can take a level in druid, instantaneously learn how to read and write in any language and gain a new one too.
Cool, but can you post it in this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283778) thread please ?
This is just the compendium, we have 120 pages of this stuff :smallcool:
The Viscount
2013-07-27, 08:16 PM
I realized that we never classified the dysfunction with flicker. Shadow magic spells are called mysteries, so I guess we need a little section just for flicker.
Posting description for convenience.
Mystery|Flicker|Invokes 50% miss chance if cast in response to attack, standard action to cast|1|34|3.5
Taking 16-20 in thread 3.
Spell|Liveoak|Ambiguous what happens to trees when released|3|16|3.5
Spell|Gust of Wind|Affects flying creatures, but not jumping creatures|3|17|3.5
Spell|Bone Chill|Affects undead, but Fort negates*|3|18|3.5
Spell|Remorseless Charm|Affects creature you show painting to, painting is material component and so is consumed|3|18|3.5
Prestige Class|Stormlord|Table gives "Elemental Conflagration," text disagrees|3|16|3.5
Prestige Class|Vermin Lord|Table gives "Pincer Claws," no such ability|3|16|3.5
Prestige Class|Wavekeeper|Table gives 9/10ths Casting, Text says nothing|3|17|3.5
Feat|Wild Cohort|Gives no way of replacing dead Cohort|3|17|3.5
Misc|Carrying Capacity|Cannot be determined for creatures with more than four legs or less than two|3|16|3.5
Misc|Jumping Leg Graft|Gives penalty to movement speed due to mismatched-ness, penalty only increases with two of them*|3|16|3.5
Misc|Wounding(Monster Ability)|Can affect plants, constructs, elementals, undead, oozes, other creatures with no blood*|3|19|3.5
Skills|Jump|If hit with conditions like daze mid-jump, you are stuck in the air|3|17|3.5
Template|Soulfused Construct|Is LA+1, but only applies to constructs with Int -, which are all unplayable.
Template|Dustform|Is LA +2, but is Int-|3|17|3.5
Template|Vampire|Vorpal weapon is stated to affect it, but doesn't say how|3|18|3.5
Template|Dragonspawn|Gives Death Throes, does not say they activate on death; Gives access to "dragon feats"|3|18|3.5
Template|Xorvintaal Dragon|Gives bonus on saving throws equal to age category|3|19|3.5
Base Class|Truenamer|DC to identify some mundane items is higher than nonmagical items|3|16|3.5
Equipment|Spiked Armor|You can be disarmed of spiked armor|3|17|3.5
Equipment|Surprise Weapons|Can be used two-handed, DC to find is 15 regardless of size|3|18|3.5
TuggyNE
2013-07-28, 12:04 AM
I realized that we never classified the dysfunction with flicker. Shadow magic spells are called mysteries, so I guess we need a little section just for flicker.
Posting description for convenience.
Mystery|Flicker|Invokes 50% miss chance if cast in response to attack, standard action to cast|1|34|3.5
Taking 16-20 in thread 3.
Maybe we should have a section for spell-ish things that aren't spells or powers (which would include invocations and incarnum, but not maneuvers/stances).
Also, I'll pick up 21-25 for now.
We are slipping on this, RL has been very distracting of late.
I'll grab 26-30
TuggyNE
2013-08-08, 05:59 AM
We are slipping on this, RL has been very distracting of late.
I'll grab 26-30
Indeed! :smallredface:
Monster(?)|Dancer of Death (ToM)|Miscounts 60' speed as 10 squares|3|20|3.5
Spell|Speak Rock to Mud (MoI)|Misspells rock as "ruck"|3|20|3.5
PrC|Foe Hunter (Masters of the Wild)|Misspelled as "Toe Hunter"*|3|20|3.5
Skill|Ride, epic|Failing a DC 50 check for free-action control automatically allows move-action control with no check|3|21|3.5
Equipment|Morphing WSA|On a double weapon, possible to morph away the head with the morphing ability|3|22|3.5
Spell|Vestigewrack (ToM)|Spell text overrides statblock, changing to a Fort save, which is then ignored by all targets|3|22|3.5
Feat|Summon Good Monster|Grants Diehard to summons, but summons are dismissed upon reaching 0 HP anyway|3|22|PF
Skill|Ride|Able to control others' mounts in combat without riding them*|3|22|3.5
Skill Trick|Sudden Draw|Only usable if you threaten an area without your hidden weapon|3|23|3.5
Feat(?)|Mercurial Strike (DrCmp)|As Sudden Draw, but must be unarmed|3|23|3.5
Base Class|Wild Defender|Gain Smite Evil, no alignment restriction|3|23|3.5
Equipment|Greatsword/longsword|Can't do piercing damage|3|23|3.PF
Equipment|Bows|Can't shoot bottles|3|23|3.PF
Monster|Mind Flayer of Thoon (MMV)|Stipulates "greater resurrection" in some cases|3|24|3.5
Monster|Swarms|Fine/Diminutive swarms immune to weapon damage, despite members not being immune (e.g. toads)|3|24|3.PF
Spell|Seething Eyebane (BoVD)|Does not block gaze attacks|3|25|3.5
Maybe we should have a section for spell-ish things that aren't spells or powers (which would include invocations and incarnum, but not maneuvers/stances).
We already have sections for invocations, incarnum, and manoeuvres/stances.
The invocation and incarnum ones are quite small, maybe they could be merged ?
Spell|Hardening|Unlimited stacking|3|26|3.5
Mystery|Flicker||3|26|3.5
Misc|Hot or Cold weather|Damage is untyped|3|26|3.5
Spell|Ray of enfeeblement|Stops your strength falling below 1|3|26|3.5
PrC|Tenebrous Apostate|Umbral Body usage|3|26|3.5
Monster|Master of the Hunt[MM5]|Gets a morale bonus to which it is immune|3|27|3.5
Monster|Bloodfiend Locusts|Creates Fiendish Vampire spawn: Illegal template stacking|3|27|3.5
Mystery|Black Fire|Shapeable, but area is too small|3|27|3.5
Spell|Polymorph Any Object|Cannot turn objects into creatures, and yet it can|3|27|3.5
Misc|Enemies|Hostile creatures are not your enemy so no AoO|3|28|3.5
Spell|Combust (SpC)|Can set fire to objects over 25lbs/level|3|28|3.5
Feat|Robilar's Gambit|Can only provoke once|3|29|3.5
Equipment|Alchemical items|Not magical, but only spellcasters can make them|3|29|3.5
Equipment|Spell component pouch|Contains living creatures (Fixed in LOM)|3|29|3.5
Deepbluediver
2013-08-08, 10:30 AM
We are slipping on this, RL has been very distracting of late.
I love this thread, and I've been a lurker here for a long time (plus I try to point it out to other posters as often as possible). If some one can explain to me exactly what it is I need to do, I'd be glad to try and help out.
The Viscount
2013-08-08, 10:41 AM
The "Dancer of Death" is a monster, but is actually named Deadly Dancer.
Mercurial Strike is indeed a feat.
Your help would be welcome, Deepbluediver. We compile the dysfunctions as presented in the dysfunctional rules thread and put them in the posts as above. The first denotes which category (monster, feat, spell, etc) the dysfunction falls under, the second names what is dysfunctional, the third gives a brief mention of what the dysfunction is, the fourth denotes which thread it originated from (first, second, or third), the fifth denotes which page it is mentioned on in the thread, and the sixth denotes which edition it is in (3.5, PF, or both).
Added a new section for Mysteries. I will think about merging them.
I resisted the temptation to use White text for them :smallbiggrin:
I've added Spoilers because the main post is getting quite large now.
I love this thread, and I've been a lurker here for a long time (plus I try to point it out to other posters as often as possible). If some one can explain to me exactly what it is I need to do, I'd be glad to try and help out.
The more help the better. There's a Methodology spoiler in post #1, and you can see our working above. The Methodology is just to stop duplication of effort.
The "Dancer of Death" is a monster, but is actually named Deadly Dancer.
Thanks and I've just fixed the name.
Mercurial Strike is indeed a feat.
Thanks I already knew this and we had it from Dragon Mag 310. Seems they didn't fix it when they made the compendium.
Deepbluediver
2013-08-08, 12:42 PM
The more help the better. There's a Methodology spoiler in post #1, and you can see our working above. The Methodology is just to stop duplication of effort.
Ok, then I will ATTEMPT to do pages 31-35, if not this afternoon then tomorrow.
I may request someone doublecheck my work once I post though.
Edit: Here's my attempts at page 31, if anyone wants to give it a quick looksie before I waste to much time screwing up the next several pages, it would be helpful.
Equipment|Spell Component Pouch|Contains an unlimited number of live spiders, for free-action Summoned Spider Swarms|3|31|3.5/PF
Skill|Profession (executioner)|Unclear on if a failed attempt provokes AoO, and from whom
Combat|Cover|By virtue of occupying a square that an attack must pass through to reach them, every creature always provides it's own cover.|3|31|3.5/PF
Feat|Throw Anything|Allows you to throw: Unarmed Strikes, Shield and Armor Spikes, and the unthrowable Butterfly Net|3|31|3.5
There are a lot of back-and-forth-arguments in there, so I'm not sure how much of this should be taken as accurate or serious, but these seem to be the agreed upon dysfunctions.
Yeah it can be tricky debatable stuff is fine IMHO: people an always look up the debate.
We try for concision, but I can edit stuff down.
Is page 35 full yet ?
Deepbluediver
2013-08-08, 01:04 PM
We try for concision, but I can edit stuff down.
Yeah, I was fighting between being concise and conveying what exactly the actual dysfunction was.
Is page 35 full yet ?
No, needs another 10 posts or so.
I still plan on attempting the next 4 pages (32-35) just need to find a little time.
Cool, but there's no point in doing page 35 until it's complete.
Deepbluediver
2013-08-11, 02:09 PM
Here's the full list for pages 31-35, including those originally listed above; I attempted to shorten the descriptions a bit.
I also tried to include everything that was actually problematic, while excluding a few things that where just quirky. If this requires to much clean up to be useful, please let me know and I'll stop trying to be helpful and go back to just lurking.
Race|Diopsid|Text regarding wielding larger weapons is contradictory|3|33|3.5
Race|Vampires|Restricted to a move or "attack action", which does not exist in 3.5|3|34|3.5
Base Class|Duskblade|Are proficient in all armors, including every exotic armor|3|33|3.5
Base Class|Cleric|Domain spells are untyped|3|35|3.5
PrC|Tenebrous Apostate|Ending the Umbral Body ability early wastes the remainder of the rounds/day|3|32|3.5
Skill|Profession (executioner)|Unclear on a failed attempt if it provokes AoO, and from whom
Feat|Throw Anything|Allows you to throw throwable items (Unarmed Strikes, Shield and Armor Spikes, etc)|3|31|3.5
Feat|Unseen Arrow|Deliver arrows with a melee touch attack|3|32|3.5
Feat|Furious Inhalation|Players allowed to choose that it ends however it benefits them the most|3|35|3.5
Equipment|Spell Component Pouch|Contains an unlimited number of live spiders|3|31|3.5/PF
Equipment|Shadowsilk Armor|text is unclear about ACP, whether -1 or 0|3|32|3.5
Combat|Cover|Every creature always provides it's own cover.|3|31|3.5/PF
Combat|Sniping|Harder than melee attacking while hiding|3|35|3.5
Spell|Glibness|Has no verbal component for casting by a Bard|3|33|3.5
Spell|Blizzard|AOE exceeds range of the spell|3|35|3.5
There was also some discussion starting here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15721445&postcount=975) regarding Fire/Cold immunity granting Cold/Fire vulnerability by RAW, despite many creatures not listing it in stack blocks. I couldn't quite parse out if this was a dysfunction.
TuggyNE
2013-08-11, 09:05 PM
There was also some discussion starting here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15721445&postcount=975) regarding Fire/Cold immunity granting Cold/Fire vulnerability by RAW, despite many creatures not listing it in stack blocks. I couldn't quite parse out if this was a dysfunction.
Personally, I include anything I'm not sure of one way or another, but with an asterisk after the description, which points to the footnote in the list post. (Usually this is because I don't have access to the books in question.)
The Viscount
2013-08-11, 10:09 PM
The Heat Immunity/Cold Vulnerability dysfunction was fortunately cleared up by Rules Compendium, so no need to list it.
I'm going to grab pages 36-40
Weapon|Scythe|Designed for mowing grass so why the x4 Crit multiplier ?|3|36|3.5
PrC|Shadow Sun ninja|Darkness in Light ability is a standard action, therefore useless|3|36|3.5
Power|Crystal Body|Cannot use this power for 4 levels after getting it|3|36|3.5
Monster|Knell Beetle (MMIII)|Vermin with skill points|3|36|3.5
Monster|Quorcraft Warforged|Mindless constructs with class levels|3|36|3.5
Monster|Electrum Horror|Ranged attack has no stated range|3|36|3.5
PrC|Master of many forms|Gains Ooze split ability|3|37|3.5
Monster|Giant Banded Lizards (Sandstorm)*|Can use their improved grab on a creature of any size|3|38|3.5
Spell|Gemjump|You don't have to touch the creatures you take with you|3|38|3.5
Spell|Baleful Polymorph|Shapechanges can no longer change back|3|38|3.5
Feat|Precocious Apprentice|Allows access by School rather than Spell list|3|38|3.5
Feat|Precocious Apprentice|Multi-classing abuse|3|38|3.5
Template|Skeletal dragon and Zombie dragon||etain any exceptional special qualities|3|39|3.5
Combat|Rules of Torture (BoVD)|Attempting to escape from a Grapple provokes a free CdG|3|39|3.0
PrC|Contemplative|Mystic Union capstone grants damage resistance|3|39|3.5
Spell|Resist Energy|Requires a DF, even for a Wizard|3|39|3.5
Feat (Epic)|Fine Wild shape*|Few stats for Fine sized animals|3|40|3.5
Feat|Ancestral Relic|Can be applied to an existing magic item|3|40|3.5
I'm holding fire on this one for a little while
Karmic Strike Schrφdinger's AoO (or is this more general)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15865018&postcount=1162
NeoPhoenix0
2013-09-09, 12:09 PM
It looks like you haven't added the data from pages 31-35 into the opening posts yet.
Correct, it's quite a big job it takes an hour or so. I prefer to do a batch in one go.
I've updated the index to page 40 of the current thread (3), but we have a couple of issues.
1) These appear to be contradictory. I've left the original for the moment, pending review.
Baleful Polymorph|Creatures with shapechanger subtype can revert back to natural form, but lose subtype if changed|2|32|3.5
Baleful Polymorph|Shapechanges can no longer change back|3|38|3.5
2) Missing page and thread number. It's thread 3, somewhere in pages 31-35
Skill|Profession (executioner)|Unclear on a failed attempt if it provokes AoO, and from whom
TuggyNE
2013-09-13, 06:28 PM
I've updated the index to page 40 of the current thread (3), but we have a couple of issues.
1) These appear to be contradictory. I've left the original for the moment, pending review.
Baleful Polymorph|Creatures with shapechanger subtype can revert back to natural form, but lose subtype if changed|2|32|3.5
Baleful Polymorph|Shapechanges can no longer change back|3|38|3.5
It's the same issue; baleful polymorph states that [shapechanger] subtype creatures, while not immune, can revert to their normal form as a standard action. However, it also states that type and subtype are changed to that of the new form, and makes no exception for [shapechanger] to remain.
2) Missing page and thread number. It's thread 3, somewhere in pages 31-35
Skill|Profession (executioner)|Unclear on a failed attempt if it provokes AoO, and from whom
It's page 31.
It's the same issue; baleful polymorph states that [shapechanger] subtype creatures, while not immune, can revert to their normal form as a standard action. However, it also states that type and subtype are changed to that of the new form, and makes no exception for [shapechanger] to remain.
Ah, OK I'll make a double reference.
It's page 31.
Well I did look at that, but the description seemed different ? :smallconfused:
I'll update the reference.
Deepbluediver
2013-09-13, 11:31 PM
Well I did look at that, but the description seemed different ? :smallconfused:
I'll update the reference.
Thanks. I think I accidentally clipped that piece off when I was shuffling them around to be in the appropriate order.
Going through the main thread and picking everything out was harder than I though it would be. That's why I haven't volunteered for more yet.
Thanks. I think I accidentally clipped that piece off when I was shuffling them around to be in the appropriate order.
Going through the main thread and picking everything out was harder than I though it would be. That's why I haven't volunteered for more yet.
It is quite fun to read the thread again though.
I now is not it's not dysfunctional but "just" truly odd...the warblade in the starting package example has a shortbow but he's not proficient in it :smallamused:
Also a commoner can not identify any common animal as a cow or the scary house-cat as he needs raks knowledge (nature):smallamused:
Line 1 post #3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14536851&postcount=3) "The Collection"
All example characters are known to be wrong
There are several similar Knowledge dysfunctions in the Skills section of the Collection. I've a feeling we already have this one, but maybe not.
Also: please post these in the appropriate thread as listed in http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14536839&postcount=1.
I would have linked to the relevant thread directly, but thread III is almost full and so we might be on thread IV by the time you get there.
This thread is for the handbook/collection/index only.
Thanks.
Snowbluff
2013-09-20, 10:36 PM
I can't find "Unseen Arrow" as directed. Can someone find that for me, or give me the source of the feat? It intrigues me.
EDIT: NVM, found it.
NeoPhoenix0
2013-09-20, 10:43 PM
The feat is in Tome of Magic pg 138. The prestige class it is used for starts on pg 129.
Edit: edit ninja'd by less than a minute.
Snowbluff
2013-09-20, 10:46 PM
The feat is in Tome of Magic pg 138. The prestige class it is used for starts on pg 129.
Edit: edit ninja'd by less than a minute.
Addendum: The PrC and feat are bad. :smallfrown:
NeoPhoenix0
2013-09-26, 04:15 AM
The opening post should be updated to direct people to the new thread as soon as possible.
Snowbluff
2013-09-26, 06:37 AM
Done, please proof read.
Commoner Rail Gun and Physics are contradictory. If the parcel doesn't have momentum, it would not be moving very fast after the last commoner releases it.
Hamste
2013-09-26, 06:50 AM
Commoner Rail Gun and Physics are contradictory. If the parcel doesn't have momentum, it would not be moving very fast after the last commoner releases it.
The rail gun doesn't do any damage. The problem/dysfunction with it is that you can transport anything an infinite distance with enough commoners.
Snowbluff
2013-09-26, 06:53 AM
The rail gun doesn't do any damage. The problem/dysfunction with it is that you can transport anything an infinite distance with enough commoners.
Oh, okay. Carry on, then.
What is this momentum of which you speak ?
SRD reference please ?
Commoner Rail Gun 3.5 and Physics are contradictory. If the parcel doesn't have momentum
FTFY.
Snowbluff
2013-09-26, 08:23 AM
What is this momentum of which you speak ?
SRD reference please ?
FTFY.
FTFY meaning "I screwed that up for you."
There is an entry for Physics, and one for Commoner Railgun. The former would make the old version of the latter impossible. If momentum isn't conserved, the "Railgun" makes a rather lousy gun.
Hamste
2013-09-26, 08:49 AM
Yeah, commoner railgun is a misnomer. It does the exact same damage as a commoner throwing it at the end as an improvised weapon making it nearly pointless as a doom weapon. Is still lets you make a package travel any length of distance is 6 seconds which is the main advantage. Who needs a teleportation circle when you can get a bunch of commoners to crowd surf you at the speed of light to the destination.
NeoPhoenix0
2013-09-26, 08:56 AM
These kinds of discussions are probably better held in the current thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304817). This thread is mainly for the collecting of the dysfunctions of the dysfunctional threads.
Pages 41-45 of Thread 3
Class|Shugenja|Shugenja's require Cha equal to 10+SL+Cha mod to cast a spell|3|42|3.5
(Not a dysfunction, at least not one in the rules the reader's eyesight maybe)
Feat|Ki*|Ki feats specify bonus feat rather than Monk bonus feat|3|42|3.5
Feat|Superior Unarmed Strike|One level of Monk stips this from scaling|3|42|3.5
Item|Single Gloves|Use both hands to wear one glove|3|42|3.5
feat|Dream of Perception (SoS)|Dreamtouched state ended by any augury|3|43|3.5
Class|Death Master|A Wizard can copy their spells into their spellbooks|3|43|3.5
Vestige|Astaroth|Grants craft feats, but not the ability to use them|3|43|3.5
Mystery|Black Labyrinth|AoE 1 mile radius, but the range is Long|3|43|3.5
Class|Monks|Cannot use bonus feats if they are not qualified|3|44|3.5
PrC|Deepstone Sentinel|Mountain Fortress Stance flawed interaction with Stone Dragon stance|3|44|3.5
Spell|Control Water|Abusable on land|3|44|3.5
Power|Compression/Expansion does not change your speed|3|44|3.5
Spell|Reduce/Enlage does not change your speed|3|44|3.5
Monster|Undead type|Immune to physical ability damage, Con - makes them immune to all ability damage|3|45|3.5
Items|Maneuver items in ToB|Iron Heart Vest, Setting Sun Slippers etc - can never been taken off even to bathe|3|45|3.5
Feat|Extraordinary Concentration|Allows you to cast a spell when maintaining concentration on another, only it doesn't|3|45|3.5
Stance|Shifting Defense|Allows 5' steps on AoO, but only 1/rd|3|45|3.5
OK I'm going to wrap up Thread 3 by doing Pages 46-50.
Items|Weapons|Contradictory rules about weilding weapons of the wrong size|3|46|3.5
PrC|Paragnostic Initiate|Discern Weakness uses wrong knowledge|3|46|3.5
Monster|Black Pudding|Made of Acid but take full damage from Acid|3|47|3.5
Item|Defending|Only works on swords|3|47|3.5
Misc|Nonlethal Damage|Nonlethal Damage does damage, but then it doesn't|3|48|3.5
Spell|Haste|Dodge bonuses are never granted by spells, except Haste|3|48|3.5
Combat|Throw weapons|Splash weapons can go farther when you miss then when you hit|3|48|3.5
Class|Factotum|Cunning Breach: Targets fail SR against Factotum's spells. SR tests are made by the caster, which Factotums aren't|3|48|3.5
Item|Talsiman of the Disk|Makes a Tenser's floating disk with a Transmutation aura. Tenser's floating disk is Evocation|3|49|3.5
Spell|Footsteps of the Divine|Unknown duration|3|49|3.5
Feat|Corrupted Wild Shape|Superflous|3|49|3.5
Misc|Extravagent cost of living|Makes you arbitarily wealthy|3|49|3.PF
Misc|Supply and Demand|All prices and supplies of things remain constant|3|50|3.x
I'll consolidate these shortly, but not today
Well I finally found time to finish summarizing Thread 3, anyone feel like making a start on Thread 4 ?
We have broken the 500 barrier already, and have our first dizzy Vestige.
I'll pick up pages 1-5 of Thread 4
PrCs|Tenebrous Apostate|Tenebrous grants TU so no actual Cleric requirement|4|1|3.5
Misc|Disease|Natural mummy rot is less dangerous than that spread by mummies|4|1|3.5
Spell|Shadow Conjuration|Double 20% reduction on Non-lethal and ability damage|4|1|3.5
Combat|TWF|Handedness is still in the rules|4|1|3.5
Misc|Disease|Plague Blight: nauseated, no duration|4|1|3.5
PrC|Various|Some SLAs have no defined spell level|4|1|3.5
Weapon|Ghost Touch|Can't hit Ghosts unless manifested|4|2|3.5
Monsters|Aquatics|Abilities are not limited to working in water|4|2|3.5
Archetype|Armor Master: Deflective Shield (Ex) Assumes shields provide an armour bonus|4|2|3.PF
Spell|Curse of Pain ETERNAL|(Dr#300) Duration: 10 minutes/level|4|3|3.5
Race|Changelings|+10 bonus to disguise somewhat misleading|4|3|3.5
Feat|Escape route|Makes you immune to AoOs from movement|4|3|3.PF
Spell|Elemental Familiar|CAn be cast on any creature|4|3|3.5
Item|Bearskin Armor|Functions in Wild Shape, but it's made from metal|4|3|3.5
Spell|Sanctified spells|Neutral characters can cast Sanctified spells|4|3|3.5
Monster|Devourers|Can deflect various spells which they are immune to anyway|4|3|3.5
Template|Sentry Ooze| Int +2 = 2|4|4|3.5
Combat|Readied actions|If staggered, you can ready a charge. Otherwise you can't|4|4|3.5
PrC|Disciple of Xl|Has +8 BAB at level 10, should be 7|4|4|3.5
PrC|Moon Guardian|Grants Natural Spell to Lycanthropes|4|4|3.5
PrC|Black Flame Zealot|Requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Kukri); Kukri is a martial weapon|4|4|3.5
Feat|Mythic Path abilities|Most are badly worded|4|5|3.PF
Class|Barbarian|Ghost Rager Touch AC can be higher than AC|4|5|3.PF
TuggyNE
2013-12-13, 07:30 AM
I'll pick up pages 1-5 of Thread 4
Ooh, I should take 6-10, but it'll have to be tomorrow.
The Viscount
2013-12-13, 11:40 AM
Dibs on 11-20, though it'll be a few days before I get to them.
TuggyNE
2013-12-14, 06:53 AM
Spell|Wall of Sand (Sandstorm)|Adjacent target inside wall cannot be attacked|4|6|3.5
Spell|Telepathic Bond|Can be put on ghouls, treants, inevitables, etc*|4|7|3.PF
Feat|Intimidating Strike|Can't be used in a charge|4|7|3.5
Spell|Charm Person|Sets attitude to friendly, even if it was more positive before|4|8|3.PF
Feat|Mage Slayer|Automatically informs spellcasters of their inability to cast defensively, even if they were unaware of the enemy|4|8|3.5
PrC|Rage Mage|Can quicken spells without changing casting time|4|8|3.5
Misc|Wizard specialization|Many spell trigger/spell completion items of banned schools are still usable|4|9|3.5
Spell|Vermin Shape|Can't be dismissed, unlike other [polymorph]|4|9|PF
Misc|Animal type|If Int increased in various ways, animal is no longer animal?|4|10|3.PF
Misc|Swarm subtype|Not immune to distraction|4|10|3.PF
Well, it wasn't exactly tomorrow, but close enough for govmint work. :smallredface:
I'll grab 21-25 then.
I'll do the update when The Viscount has completed his tranche holidays permitting.
Spell|Aspect of the Wolf|Type changes to animal, but retain mental abilities|4|21|3.5
Skill|Spot and Listen|Inverse square law is linear|4|21|3.5
Power|Heavy Earth|Immune to being knocked prone|4|21|3.5
Skill|Knowledge Arcana|DC 10 to identify an intelligent item|4|22|3.5
PrC|various|Advances spells/day but not CL or Spells Known|4|22|3.5
PrC|Eldritch Knight|Doesn't advance CL except that it does|4|22|3.5
Feat|Improved fiendish servant|Gives you a doubly fiendish servant|4|22|3.5
Class|Favored soul|dead level ability faith healing grant NI healing|4|22|3.5
Class|Cleric|Domain powers do not specify the descriptor|4|23|3.5
Monster|Kraken|Jet power is not specified as Swim|4|23|3.5
Spell|Damnation Stride|Dim Door + Fireball with a duration of 1 min/level|4|23|3.PF
Item|Shield|Lose AC bonus after using it as a weapon, until you mumble|4|23|3.5
Combat|Tiny Creatures|Must spring attack, can't full attack|4|23|3.5
Race|Changelings|Only qualify for Able Learner and Chameleon via variant rule|4|24|3.5
Item|Morphing weapon|Thrown category confusion|4|24,25|3.5
PrC|Master of Many Forms|Language confusion|4|24|3.5
Item|Scrolls|Scrolls of multiple spells exist but there is no way to make them|4|25|3.5
Item|Scrolls|Clerics can make scrolls of domain spells, but usually can't use them|4|25|3.5
PrC|Invisible Blade|Has Innuendo as a class skill|4|25|3.5
The Viscount
2013-12-20, 02:24 AM
Sorry for the wait. Here's 11-20.
Equipment|Double Weapon|Interaction with two-weapon fighting are odd|4|20|3.5
Monster|Swarm|Can be half-dragon*|4|11|3.5
Monster|Swarm|Can be held if swallowed whole, constituent creatures cannot|4|17|3.5
Monster|Swarm|Druid can potentially wildshape into swarm without gaining swarm subtype|4|17|3.5
Monster|Troglodyte|Smell worse when alive than when dead or zombie*|4|11|3.5
Race|Spellscale|Can gain bonus to Perform (Storytelling), which does not exist|4|14|3.5
Adventure|Shadows of the Last War|Yellow lock can only be opened by a yellow key which does not exist|4|11|3.5
Misc|Gaze Attacks|Iteratives can be made with gaze attacks|4|12|3.5
Misc|Attack Action|Attack action is never defined|4|12|3.5
Misc|Movement Speeds|Multiple movement speed types do not interact|4|12|3.5
Misc|Dying and Unconsciousness|Neither makes the creature prone|4|12|3.5
Misc|Difficult Terrain|Poor visibility may reduce falling speed or increase falling damage|4|14|3.5
Skill|Jump|Swim speeds and jump interact weirdly, you can jump while flying|4|17-19|3.5
Vestige|Zceryll|Summon Alien has no duration or range|4|12|3.5
Spell|Polymorph Any Object|Creature bodies created using PaO have no HD|4|12|3.5
Spell|Seed of Undeath|Is not an [Evil] spell*|4|16|3.5
Feat|Undead Meldshaper|Allows undead to take Incarnum classes, but not Incarnum feats|4|12|3.5
Feat|Swarmfighting|Has rules for creatures smaller than Small, which cannot take the feat|4|16|3.5
Prestige Class|Legendary Captain|Can reroll failed roll, but must be done before it is declared a success or failure by DM|4|14|3.5
Prestige Class|Knight of the Sacred Seal|Changes type to outsider, referencing monk class feature which does not change type|4|15|3.5
Prestige Class|Blackguard|Fiendish Servant has more SR from template than from class|4|16|3.5
Prestige Class|Nar Demonbinder|Can cast all equivalents of blasphemy, may affect self or familiar
Prestige Class|Justice of Weald and Woe|Saves are abnormally progressed|4|17|3.5
Prestige Class|Soulbow|Phase Arrow is stopped by wall of smoke, but not brick wall|4|20|3.5
Mystery|Greater Life Fades|Conflicting target information|4|16|3.5
OK, I've done the update.
The collection is now too big for 1 post and so has had to be split.
I'm now regretting not reserving more posts at the top of the thread; though we will be OK for some time.
NeoPhoenix0
2013-12-20, 02:27 PM
If it gets too big, then we can either try to make a new thread, or we could hyperlink a table of contents to latter posts.
If it gets too big, then we can either try to make a new thread, or we could hyperlink a table of contents to latter posts.
Sure, there are lots of options, and we have some time as yet.
PrC|Knight of the Thorn|Requires all Martial Weapon Proficiency feats|4|26|3.5
Skill|Disable Device|Skill function specifically tied to Rogue class|4|26|3.PF
Misc|Burrow|No rules for this ability|4|26|3.PF
Monster|Vampire|Blood Drain Temp HP have no listed duration|4|26|3.5
Monster|Vampire spawn|Blood Drain Temp HP have no listed duration|4|26|3.5
Monster|Boneworm|Desiccation aura Temp HP has no listed duration|4|26|3.5
Monster|Boneworm|Can render you shaken with no duration|4|26|3.5
Monster|Siabrie|Temp HP has no listed duration|4|26|3.5
Spell|Wall of Water|No listed height|4|26|3.5
Class|Warshaper|Can grow NI (at least 103) Natural attacks|4|26|3.5
Spell|Polymorph|Confusion over Disguise skill|4|26|3.5
Monster|Succubus|Can give you variable doses of Negative levels|4|27|3.5
Monster|Wolf|Cannot Trip as part of an AoO|4|28|3.5
Feat|Double hit|Can make an AoO with off hand weapon even if it's out of reach|4|29|3.5
Combat|TWF|Can't dual wield unarmed strikes, unless you have a weapon in one hand|4|29|3.5
Item|Armor Spikes|These are, and are not, weapons|4|29|3.5
Skill|Profession(Miner)|Governs how far you can dig, this is Wis based|4|30|3.5
Feat|Song of the Dead|Spells prepared with this feat become necromantic, spontaneous ones don't|4|30|3.5
Publication list
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16617440&postcount=761
I'm going to do 31-35 next
Soulmeld|Soulspeaker Circlet|Spend essentia to understand a language you already understand|4|31|3.5
Misc|Line of Effect|Two different definitions|4|31|3.5
Combat|Pounce|Grants single melee attack + full attack|4|31|3.5
Feats|[aberrant]|Aberrations cannot take [aberrant] feats, in fact only humanoids can|4|32|3.5
Template|Mindless undead|Creatures with mindless undead templates can have class levels despite being mindless|4|32|3.5
Spell|Shadow Trap|Has meaningless Reflex save|4|32|3.0
Spell|Soul Shackles|Confused targetting|4|32|3.0
Feat|Ineluctable Echo|Possibly infinite loop|4|33|3.5
Feat|Hindering Opportunist|Feat helps opponent|4|33|3.5
Combat|Demoralize|Opponents can avoid demoralization by playing peek-a-boo|4|33|3.5
Template|Half-Dragon|Breath weapon not depend on it's size|4|34|3.5
Misc|Ultimate Magic|Can cure yourself of nausia when casting a spell, which you can't do when nausiated|4|34|3.PF
Class|Ranger|Favored terrain boosts Knowledge: Geography when in the favored terrain|4|34|3.PF
Skill|Hiding/Moving Silently|Confused rules when at full speed|4|34|3.5
Feat|Heighten Spell|Can be used as a metamagic cost reducer maybe|4|35-36|3.5
Feat|Channel the Gift|Can fuel free metamagic|4|35|3.PF
Feat|All Devotion feats|TU attempts grant additional daily uses|4|35-36|3.5
I actually went through to page 36, because the debate continued.
I'm going to do Pages 37-42 next
Vestige|Balam|Gaze attack has no listed range|4|37|3.5
Spell|Mind Blank|Works against some suprising Divintations|4|37|3.5
Feat|Ring the Golden Bell|Allows Grapple at Range etc.|4|37|3.5
Power|Wild Surge|Free Augmentation|4|37|3.5
Monster|Guecubu|Defines what happens if you don't sleep|4|38|3.5
Misc|Hands|Come in several sizes|4|39|3.5
Misc|Cold Immunity|Being immune to cold makes you vulnerable to Fire|4|39|3.5
Spell|Crack ice|Effects Ice creatures whatever they are ?|4|40|3.5
Monster|Spider Eater|Auto death in six weeks time, if you're hit|4|41|3.5
Misc|Ships|A ship that is going backwards must stop before it can go backwards|4|41|3.5
Item|Phylactery of Negative Channeling|Adds 2d6 to any damage|4|42|3.PF
Misc|Retraining Rules|Paradoxiacal pre-reqs|4|42|3.PF
Templates|Half Fey and Half Celestial|Children may be a lot larger than their parents|4|42|3.5
Misc|Planar Bubbles|Overlapping bubbles can cause a contradiction|4|42|3.5
TuggyNE
2014-02-26, 09:15 PM
43-51 for me!
Spell|Incorporeal Nova|Can "destroy" living creatures instead of killing|4|43|3.5
Misc|Divine, Glory|Some deities with those domains have incompatible alignments and cannot grant some spells|4|43|PF
Power|Call Weaponry|Can include siege weapons|4|43|3.PF
Monster|Glimmerskin|Has Cleave, but Str -|4|44|3.5
Monster|Mountain Giant (MM2)|No listed rock-throwing range|4|44|3.5
Template|Voidmind (LM)|Template makes immune to dominate effect it imposes|4|45|3.5
Monster|Mane (FC1)|Physically unable to do any damage at all to any devil, ever|4|45|3.5
Spell|Polymorph Any Object|Can give targets ability scores even if they are null|4|45|PF
Spell|Wall of Force|May not block LoE for everything*|4|45|3.PF
Stance|Dance of the Spider (ToB)|Eliminates all bonuses on enemy attacks while climbing|4|47|3.5
Race|Aasimar w/ Scion of Humanity|Always passes for human no matter what|4|48|PF
Feat|Tomb-Tainted Soul|Does not explicitly prevent negative energy from harming you|4|48|3.5
Feat|Double Wand Wielder/Dual Dorje|Override casting time to always be a total of a full-round action|4|49|3.5
Monster|Change Shape ability|Most creatures cannot change back|4|49|3.5
Spell|(Un)hallow|Can apply detection spells in an area but do not define where the detected information goes|4|49|3.PF
Vestige|Shax|Gives sonic/electricity touch attack; what type is sneak attack with it?|4|49|3.5
Combat|TWF|Undefined for most ranged weapons, including slings|4|49|3.PF
Equipment|Longarm Bracers|Gives reach with all weapons, not merely those held|4|49|PF
Feat|Inhuman Reach|Gives reach with all weapons, not merely those held|4|49|3.5
Misc|Spooked drawback|Attempts to override immunities to fear, but doesn't|4|49|PF
Maneuver|Thicket of Blades|May or may not override Tumble AoO avoidance|4|49|3.5
Monster|Vorr (FF)|Unupdated 3.0 DR|4|50|3.5
Gadora
2014-02-27, 04:00 AM
43-51 for me!
Combat|TWF|Undefined for most ranged weapons, including slings|4|49|3.PF
Minor correction: Slings are among the handful of weapons that are defined.
deuxhero
2014-02-27, 04:14 AM
You missed
Equipment|Bonebreaker Gauntlets|Occupy the wrong body slot for gauntlets, allowing a character to wear two pairs of gauntlets|4|49|PF
Equipment|Gauntlets of Skill at Arms|Occupy the wrong body slot for gauntlets, allowing a character to wear two pairs of gauntlets|4|49|PF
TuggyNE
2014-02-27, 04:26 AM
Minor correction: Slings are among the handful of weapons that are defined.
Well don't I feel silly.
You missed
Equipment|Bonebreaker Gauntlets|Occupy the wrong body slot for gauntlets, allowing a character to wear two pairs of gauntlets|4|49|PF
Equipment|Gauntlets of Skill at Arms|Occupy the wrong body slot for gauntlets, allowing a character to wear two pairs of gauntlets|4|49|PF
I'm not sure those are really dysfunctional? But I guess they could go in with an asterisk.
OK I'm going to do the compositing now.
I'm going to change
Combat|TWF|Undefined for most ranged weapons, including slings|4|49|3.PF
to
Combat|TWF|Undefined for most ranged weapons|4|49|3.PF
Shout if this is wrong and I'll fix it.
I've just updated the handbook for the new table format.
This is cool, unfortunately it does consume almost twice as much space and so I've had to move the top category into the bottom of post 1, and the last category (Adventures) has been, temporarily, removed.
I should have reserved more pages.
Options:
Create a new thread
Move more categories into Page 1 (There's plenty of space)
Borrow another post
Have TuggyNE move his stuff from post 4 into the top of post 6 and delete post 4
Reuse my old post 5 (now 4) for an extra page
No huge rush on any of this. I can shuffle categories up which will allow me to replace the lost section, but that won't be today.
Post Sizes for reference
Post 1 6K
Post 2 49K
Post 3 49K
Lost Post 1K
The limit, for a post, is 50K
Kazudo
2014-03-31, 07:45 PM
Make a new thread!
ShriekingDrake
2014-03-31, 07:49 PM
Seconded. Just make the last post a link to the new thread and ask a mod to close this one.
NeoPhoenix0
2014-03-31, 08:06 PM
I don't care if you take their advice or not, but for the sake of not being sloppy, if you do decide to make a new thread, also add a link to it at the beginning of the first post. Seems like another important location for notices with an index like this.
TuggyNE
2014-04-01, 01:14 AM
My preference is for TuggyNE to consolidate his posts. Since that is conveniently me, I think this is the best option, so I'll do that in a few minutes.
My preference is for TuggyNE to consolidate his posts. Since that is conveniently me, I think this is the best option, so I'll do that in a few minutes.
OK Thanks.
I've put everything back in place.
I might do some more tweaking later, but we are good for another couple of Dyssy threads or so.
TrueJordan
2014-04-11, 11:01 AM
If you look at the wording for heal:
Heal enables you to channel positive energy into a creature to wipe away injury and afflictions. It immediately ends any and all of the following adverse conditions affecting the Target: ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned. It also cures 10 hit points of damage per level of the caster, to a maximum of 150 points at 15th level.
Heal does not remove negative levels, restore permanently drained levels, or restore permanently drained ability score points.
If used against an undead creature, heal instead acts like harm.
So if you use heal on an undead creature, it refers you to harm, right? Let's take a look at harm:
Harm charges a subject with negative energy that deals 10 points of damage per caster level (to a maximum of 150 points at 15th level). If the creature successfully saves, harm deals half this amount, but it cannot reduce the targets hit points to less than 1.
If used on an undead creature, harm acts like heal.
So you use heal on an undead guy, and RAW it acts like harm, which in turn (because he's undead) works like heal, which works like harm... etc. ad infinitum.
Obviously even the slightest interpretation of RAI will fix this but RAW... derp derp
If you look at the wording for heal:
So if you use heal on an undead creature, it refers you to harm, right? Let's take a look at harm:
So you use heal on an undead guy, and RAW it acts like harm, which in turn (because he's undead) works like heal, which works like harm... etc. ad infinitum.
Obviously even the slightest interpretation of RAI will fix this but RAW... derp derp
Can you post this in the appropriate thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?333789-Dysfunctional-Rules-Thread-V-Dysfunctions-All-the-Way-Down) please ? This is just an index.
Notes for future compositors
With the new table format we need to change our entries.
New format
Aasimar w/ Scion of HumanityAlways passes for human no matter what4483.PF
If you format the lines as follows
Class<<Aasimar w/ Scion of Humanity||Always passes for human no matter what||4||48||3.PF>>
(or similar) then a quick global edit can be used to fix them up.
Don't forget the classification at the beginning, this tells me which table to put it into.
Thanks
I'll make a start on thread 5.
Picking up pages 1-5
<<Race||Troglodytes||are not proficient with their natural weapons, only simple||5||1||3.5>>
<<Race||Gnolls||use battleaxes and shortbows, but are not proficient with either||5||1||3.5>>
<<Monster||Vorr||Shadow Form has DR 50/+5, but no clause saying it can't attack while in that form||5||1||3.x>>
<<Feat||Channel Charge||Gets harder to use with Staffs the higher level you are||5||1||3.5>>
<<Monster||Construct type||Does not give immunity to the Sickened or Nauseated conditions||5||1||3.5>>
<<Teamwork Benefit||Cunning Ambush||Ignores size of team member||5||2||3.5>>
<<Item||Tumbler's Breastplate||Grants +2 Tumble, but stops you using the skill||5||2||3.5>>
<<Spell||Sanctify the Wicked||Several dysfunctions||5||1-2||3.5>>
<<Spell||Magic Jar||Do spells stay with the original body, or the new one ?||5||2||3.5>>
<<Spell||Spell Worm<Epic Seed>||Conflict between IC and OOC knowledge||5||2||3.5>>
<<Combat||CDG possible with 0 damage||5||3||3.5>>
<<Skill||Lucid Dreaming||Several dysfunctions||5||3||3.5>>
<<Monster||Nereid||Magical shawl of seafoam has no stats||5||3||3.5>>
<<Spell||Instant Armor||Can leave you barefoot||5||3||3.PF>>
<<Monster||Ghaele||Protective aura interferes with it's other SLAs||5||3||3.5>>
<<Class||Alchemist||Can make bombs which weigh more than their components||5||3||3.PF>>
<<Trait||Unnatural Presence||Allows you to intimidate types which you can intimidate anyway, though they are immune to fear||5||3||3.PF>>
<<Spell||Summon Instrument||Duration confusion||5||3||3.5>>
<<Feat||Blind-Fight||Keeps your Dex bonus to AC against an invisible attacker, but not when you're blinded||5||4||3.5>>
<<PrC||Necrocarnate||Confused class features if you are multiclassed with two ncarnum classes||5||4||3.5>>
<<Spell||Mystic Aegis||Permanent duration SR||5||4||3.5>>
<<Class||Wizard||Multiclassing into Wizard creates a spell-book out of thin air||5||4||3.5>>
<<Spell||Storm of Blades||Free Artefacts and can destroy artefacts with ease so long as they are swords||5||4||3.PF>>
<<Race||Changeling||Minor Change Shape is Disguise Self, which stacks with Disguise Self||5||4||3.5>>
<<Spell||Chill Touch||Instantaneous/Permanant duration||5||4||3.5>>
<<Spell||Clone||A Lich could create NI copies of itself||5||4||3.5>>
<<Monster||Vorr||Is Blind, but the rules seem to not see this||5||4||3.x>>
<<Spell||Alarm||Isn't tripped by 'astral' creatures||5||4||3.5>>
<<Spell||Wind Wall||Term "massive ranged weapons" is not defined||5||5||3.5>>
<<Spell||Antimagic Field||Can be smaller than the caster||5||5||3.5>>
<<Spell||Necromantic Singularity||Area is larger than Range||5||5||3.5>>
<<Template||<any Wisdom-less>||Turns you into an object||5||5||3.5>>
<<Spell||Cloud of the Achaierai||Can be smaller than the caster||5||5||3.5>>
<<Spell||Mycontil's Last Resort||Can be smaller than the caster||5||5||3.5>>
<<PrC||Archmage||Does not advance CL||5||5||3.5>>
<<PrC||Arcane Trickster||Does not advance CL||5||5||3.5>>
<<Spell||Heal||Does heal undead after all, or does it? A Paradox||5||5||3.5>>
CyberThread
2014-05-17, 04:43 PM
Got a new one * adjusts glasses
In frostburn the Monster STat says domovai are +4 LA, but the character stat says they are only +2 LA
Got a new one * adjusts glasses
In frostburn the Monster STat says domovai are +4 LA, but the character stat says they are only +2 LA
Cool, but you are in the wrong thread. You want this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?333789-Dysfunctional-Rules-Thread-V-Dysfunctions-All-the-Way-Down) one.
RSSwizard
2014-05-28, 07:19 PM
This BS is the reason im making my own game system, and im doing a good job of it too.
The problem results from a poorly initially designed game system that works on logic circuits. Reality* doesn't work that way. For example it does not out front say that you can't do it, if it doesn't say you can. Instead just about every single thing says what you Cant do with it. This might even have Doubled the length of the books.
And as you have pointed out, there are lots of just plain honest errors of things failed to be listed, or which do not consider the bajillion other things that could create a loophole with it (that classic example of undead getting infinite HP in the positive energy plane). But the creators of the game are just humans, so its understandable with such a spaghetti mess that even they would make mistakes trying to make more stuff for it.
From there it just gets more and more bloated, with special case exceptions everywhere because the only way it can work is if its held together with duct tape and suspension of disbelief.
====
D&D is FUN but I think someone ought to make a revision that fixes these things. It can still play the same even if some core things are changed a little.
Picking up pages 6-10
<<Spell||any||You can't cast a spell unless you have the min CL required, which is not defined||5||5-6||3.5>>
<<Template||Demon-lord||This template's Unique ability can also be found on the fallen template||5||6||3.5>>
<<Skill||Knowledge: Religion||Doesn't cover Angels, Demons or the place you go when you die, the're all Knowledge: Planes||5||6||3.5>>
<<Spell||Alter Self||Turning incorporeal means you cannot move. Weird sub-type issues also||5||7||3.5>>
<<Racial class||Doppelganger||Gives the change shape ability at level 3 which means that they suffocate, starve and contradict their own type before then||5||7||3.5>>
<<Feat||Chain Power||Can't be used with any power||5||7||3.5>>
<<Template||Deathless||Are partially vulnerable to Negative levels||5||8||3.5>>
<<Spell||True Resurrection||Can bring back creatures whose bodies have been destroyed, Range:Touch||5||8||3.5>>
<<Spell||Clone||Liches can duplicate themselves||5||8||3.5>>
<<Item||Shadow veil||Pointlessly grants concealement in shadows, which everyone has anyway||5||8||3.5>>
<<Class||Rogue||Can't sneak attack in shadows||5||8||3.5>>
<<Misc||Immunity to Blindness||Can help even if you are just in the dark||5||8||3.5>>
<<Item||Raptor's Mask||Blanket immunity to effect which dazzle or daze, even if they are minor riders||5||8||3.5>>
<<Misc||Disabled vs Staggered||You can be both conscious and unconscious||5||9||3.5>>
<<Misc||Soul||Several dysfunctions||5||8-9||3.5>>
<<Spell||Ethereal Mount||Works on any plane, but only has a move on the ethereal||5||9||3.5>>
<<PrC||Consecrated Harrier||Defenders of the Faith version describes how they prepare and cast spells; CDiv version does not||5||10||3.5>>
<<Item||Javellin||can be used as melee, but are they light, one handed, ... ?||5||10||3.5>>
<<Feat||Tormtor School||Exploitable:take no penalty when making a melee attack with a javelin||5||10||3.5>>
Picking up pages 11-15
<<Skill||Disguise||No penalties for different body types||5||11||3.5>>
<<Feat||Shock Wave||Tail attack, but no tail required||5||11||3.5>>
<<Spell||Righteous Might||DR does not work against evil||5||11||3.5>>
<<Prc||Osteomancer||Shapes your bones, but does not require that you have any||5||12||3.5>>
<<Prc||Blood Magus||Can be taken by someone who doesn't have Blood||5||12||3.5>>
<<Spell||Trap the Soul||Works on creatures without a Soul||5||12||3.5>>
<<Race||Vishkanya||with the Subtle Appearance trait can appear more human than humans||5||12||3.PF>>
<<Template||Lycanthrope||Can infect targets and change their size||5||12||3.5>>
<<Prc||Acolyte of the Fist||Can be taken by characters without Fists||5||12||3.5>>
<<Spell||Swift Girdle||Infinite free clothes but destroys any armour worn||5||13-14||3.PF>>
<<Skill||Jump||Big men can't jump||5||13||3.5>>
<<maneuver||Sudden Leap||No option to jump less than the maximium||5||14||3.5>>
<<Prc||Firestorm Berserker||Inner Inferno can Incinerate the Berserker, even though he is immune to fire||5||14||3.5>>
<<Prc||Firestorm Berserker||Inner Inferno can do Con damage, even if you have Con ||5||14||3.5>>
<<Spell||Instant Armor||Destroys your clothing||5||13-14||3.PF>>
<<Spell||Polymorph||Multiple dysfunctions||5||15||3.PF>>
<<Template||Skeleton||Loses Special Attacks, but keeps Special Qualities; which may end up doing the same thing||5||15||3.5>>
<<Incarnum||Therapeutic Mantle||Linked to SL, but can be trigered by non-spells||5||15||3.5>>
<<Incarnum||Phase Cloak||Undefined interaction when Running||5||15||3.5>>
<<Monster||Hydra||How many AoO does it get with it's Combat Reflexes?||5||15||3.5>>
Picking up pages 16-20
<<Feat||Racial Heritage||Elves and Half elves are not related. Same for [Half]Orcs||5||16||3.PF>>
<<Misc||AC||AC Bonuses do not exist||5||16||3.5>>
<<Item||Mithril||All Mithril items are Masterworked, but do the ACP bonuses stack?||5||16||3.5>>
<<Misc||Improvised Weapons||Dependant upon weight and not size||5||16||3.5>>
<<Template||Undead Dragon||Cannot be Zombies, and yet they can||5||17||3.5>>
<<Class||Wizard||Need not be literate||5||17||3.5>>
<<Class||Factotum||Cunning Surge grants a Std action, but takes a Std action to use||5||17||3.5>>
<<Item||Hollow Boot Heel||Apparently small creatures wear large boots||5||18||3.5>>
<<Monster||Domovai||LA+4 or LA+2 ?||5||18||3.5>>
<<Monster||Drow Werebat||LA+2 but should be LA+4 or LA+5||5||18||3.5>>
<<Spell||Gaseous Form||Can't get you out of a grapple||5||18||3.PF>>
<<Class||Binder||No way to identify Vestiges||5||18||3.5>>
<<Power||Opportunity Power||Weird interaction with Stand Still||5||18||3.5>>
<<Spell||Darkseed||Effects plant creatures without Wis and Cha, in which case they are not creatures||5||19||3.0>>
<<Class||Druid||Eagle Shaman archetype may not pick the Eagle domain||5||19||3.PF>>
<<Prc||Shadowdancer and Assassin||Can be easier to find at night||5||19||3.5>>
<<Combat||Spiked Chain||Large creatures cannot attack targets eactly 10' away||5||19||3.5>>
<<Power||Fusion||Fusion Confusions||5||19||3.5>>
<<Monster||Lich||Phylactery must be located and destroyed, what if it's only destroyed ?||5||19||3.5>>
<<Spell||Polymorph||Very Human Centric||5||20||3.PF>>
On with pages 21-25
<<Templates||Inherited||Inherited templates can be acquired several means||5||20,22||3.5>>
<<Class||Bard||Music doesn't care how good you are at perform||5||22||3.5>>
<<Class||Savage Bard||is illiterate, unless you were illeterate already||5||22||3.5>>
<<Monster||Swarm||Near Infinite density is possible||5||23||3.5>>
<<Monster||Forest Sloth||Have Brachiation speed, Brachiation is udefined||5||23||3.5>>
<<Spells||Targetting||Several spells have invalid targets||5||23||3.5>>
<<Monster||Air Subtype||Always have fly speeds, except when they don't||5||23||3.5>>
<<Class||Bard||Half-Elf racial substitution level [8th] replaces spell slots you don't have||5||24||3.5>>
<<Monster||Rukanyr||Reflexive Sunder ability amputates natural weapons||5||24||3.5>>
<<PrC||Eye of Gruumsh and Blessed of Gruumsh||Taking both makes you blind||5||24||3.5>>
<<Class||Druid and Ranger||Woodland Stride makes you immune to damage (etc.) when in undergrowth||5||25||3.5>>
<<Spell||Trap the Soul||Destroys the Gem in casting||5||25||3.5>>
<<Combat||Cover||Two medium creatures facing off in a 5' hallway have cover from each other||5||25||3.5>>
<<Combat||Disarm||Can Disarm Armour Spikes or own shield||5||25||3.5>>
<<Race||Changeling||Disguise not neccesarily a class skill, unlike Speak Language||5||25||3.5>>
Vortenger
2014-06-23, 11:25 AM
Nedz, you rock.
Tables updated.
Now the format isn't quite right, but apparently there are some forum wide issues with tables for which a bug fix is imminent.
deuxhero
2014-06-25, 09:05 PM
Swift Girdle should be Swift Girding.
The instant armor one isn't right. Saying Instant Armor "destroys" clothing is inaccurate (as it's only a temporary effect) and that one of the dysfunctions is already noted on its own anyways. I'd go with
<<Spell||Instant Armor||Inconsistent with Swift Girding on if characters wear clothes under armor||5||13-14||3.PF>>
<<Spell||Swift Girding||Inconsistent with Instant Armor on if characters wear clothes under armor||5||13-14||3.PF>>
Eye of Gruumsh and Blessed of Gruumsh's dysfunction should have something like "...maybe", "or not?" or "or does it?" at the end as that post presents a few possible end results the rules could produce.
Second "illiterate" under Savage Bard is "illeterate" (but I can see an argument to keeping it)
You missed one on page 15
<<Spell||Transplant Visage||Everything||5||15||3.PF>>
(or the standard "Multiple dysfunctions", but that spell is something special as nothing there seems to work as intended)
Another on 20
<<Spell||Polymorph||Items that provide constant bonuses continue to function when melded into your form, even mundane ones like clothing||5||20||3.PF>>
Swift Girdle should be Swift Girding.
The instant armor one isn't right. Saying Instant Armor "destroys" clothing is inaccurate (as it's only a temporary effect) and that one of the dysfunctions is already noted on its own anyways. I'd go with
<<Spell||Instant Armor||Inconsistent with Swift Girding on if characters wear clothes under armor||5||13-14||3.PF>>
<<Spell||Swift Girding||Inconsistent with Instant Armor on if characters wear clothes under armor||5||13-14||3.PF>>
Eye of Gruumsh and Blessed of Gruumsh's dysfunction should have something like "...maybe", "or not?" or "or does it?" at the end as that post presents a few possible end results the rules could produce.
Second "illiterate" under Savage Bard is "illeterate" (but I can see an argument to keeping it)
You missed one on page 15
<<Spell||Transplant Visage||Everything||5||15||3.PF>>
(or the standard "Multiple dysfunctions", but that spell is something special as nothing there seems to work as intended)
Another on 20
<<Spell||Polymorph||Items that provide constant bonuses continue to function when melded into your form, even mundane ones like clothing||5||20||3.PF>>
Thanks going through 750 posts is quite hard, it's inevitable that something gets missed.
I had Transplant Visage down as Polymorph for some reason.
OK should all be good now. Note: we do aim for concision.
I'll pick up pages 26-30
PrC<<Shadow Sun Ninja||Requires two or three manoeuvres to satisfy it's prereqs ?||5||26||3.5>>
Spell<<Negative/Positive Energy Aura||Range personal but doesn't effext caster||5||26||3.5>>
Spell<<Miasma||Does nothing unless you try to hold your breath||5||26||3.5>>
Race<<Constructs, with Con||Don't have to breathe, but are still vulnerable to suffocation||5||26,27||3.5>>
Misc<<Turn Rebuke Undead||Cower is a fear effect, so undead are immune||5||27||3.5>>
Class<<Paladin||Rebuke dragons [ACF] is an evil action, so Paladin falls||5||28||3.5>>
Monster<<Lycanthropy||Increases monsters power, but can decrease CR||5||28||3.5>>
Spell<<Dance of Kindled Desires||Victim will sacrifie their life, except that they won't||5||28||3.PF>>
Spell<<Steeldance||Focus is the same as Target, range is medium=disarm, no save||5||28||3.5>>
Class<<Feign Death ACF||Does not prohibit taking actions||5||28||3.5>>
Spell<<various||Spellcasting Stat ill defined||5||29||3.x>>
Spell<<Versatile Weapon||Functions just like GMW, only it doesn't||5||29||3.PF>>
Spell<<Apparent Master||Is meant to be used on golems. Spell Resistance:Yes||5||29||3.PF>>
Spell<<various||Area can be larger than Range||5||29||3.5>>
PrC<<Heartwarder||Requires Spell focus (Enhancement), but grants a restricted version of it later||5||29||3.0>>
Misc<<Tiny Creatures||Can move through resisting creature's square at full speed, but not if the creature is unresisting||5||29||3.5>>
Prc<<Razmiran Preist||Spiritual weapon makes it easier to tell that Razmir isn't a god||5||30||3.PF>>
I'll grab pages 31-35 next
Monster<<Gibbering Mouther||Swallow Whole: Can eat itself||5||31||3.5>>
Monster<<Tendriculosses||Swallow Whole: Can eat a creature of any size||5||31||3.5>>
Combat<<Sneak Attack||Range limited to 30', unless you have reach||5||31||3.5>>
Item<<Arrow of Spell Storing and Splitting Bow||Weird interaction||5||31||3.5>>
PrC<<Divine Crusader||Ignores nature of patron Deity||5||32||3.5>>
Spell<<Luminous Armor||Gives a -4 penalty on melee attacks, but not missile. Also works on Blind opponents||5||32||3.5>>
Spell<<Mage's Magnificent Mansion||What happens if it is dispelled||5||32||3.5>>
PrC<<Exotic Weapon Master||Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting is somewhat over generous||5||33||3.5>>
PrC<<Demonologist||Gains a Quasit which can eat any other familiar||5||33||3.5>>
PrC<<Diabolist||Gains an Imp which can eat any other familiar||5||33||3.5>>
Spell<<Whip of Thorns||Whip is the material component, and thus destroyed||5||34||3.5>>
Spell<<Giant's Wrath||Pebbles are a material component, and thus destroyed||5||34||3.5>>
Spell<<Energize Potion||Potion is the material component, and thus destroyed||5||34||3.5>>
Feat<<Knockback||Can be used with missile weapons, also may effect a free teleport||5||34||3.5>>
Item<<Holy weapons||Turns 1st level Evil characters into undead||5||34||3.5>>
PrC<<Sublime Chord||Prepares spells just like a Sorcerer||5||34||3.5>>
Spell<<Disintegrate||Doesn't kill you just turns you into dust||5||35||3.5>>
Spell<<Disintegrate||Turns incorporeal targets into corporeal dust||5||35||3.5>>
There are several posts referencing Archives of Nethys, is this 3rd Party ?
I've left them out for now, but I can soon go back for them if they are not 3rd party.
Done now
Item<<Carnivorous Jar||Can steal organs from creature types without them||5||32||3.PF>>
Item<<Starfaring Robes||Moves at a random speed, a party could arrive over 4 years apart||5||35||3.PF>>
I'll grab pages 36-40 next
Feat<<Pawn of the Great Game||Only works up until level 10||5||36||3.5>>
Item<<Vorpal Sword||Implies undead can ignore the effect, e.g. keeping their bite attacks||5||37||3.5>>
Power<<Teleportation Circle||Can't be made permanent with an Incarnate power, but it can be with a Permanency Spell||5||37||3.5>>
Skill<<Perform||Doesn't have any ACP so dancing in plate mail is fine||5||37||3.5>>
Skill<<Perform||Versatile Performance feat allows you to fly and do acrobatics in plate mail||5||37||3.PF>>
Class<<Spirit Shaman||Several class features reference Spirits, but SS doesn't have Knowledge Planes or Religion||5||38||3.5>>
PrC<<Lantern Bearer||A Half-orc with the Racial Heritage: Elf feat qualifies, but an Half elf needs an elven sponsor||5||38||3.PF>>
Item<<Command Word activated||Speaking a word is a free action, unless it's a command word when it takes a standard action||5||38||3.5>>
Item<<Pathfinder Greatcoat||Can create intelligent creatures||5||38||3.PF>>
Power<<Bend Reality||Can Duplicate any other power (but not a spell), StP Erudite can make any spell into a power||5||38||3.5>>
Power<<Reality Revision||Can Duplicate any other power (but not a spell), StP Erudite can make any spell into a power||5||38||3.5>>
PrC<<Assassin||Can only apply poison to blades weapons safely||5||39||3.5>>
Item<<Injury poison||Can be applied to weapons which don't break the skin||5||39||3.5>>
Spell<<Conjurations||Cannot summon incorporeal creatures since no surface can support them||5||39||3.5>>
Misc<<Walking||No requirement to actually walk||5||39||3.5>>
Monster<<Greater Barghest||Advancement does not specify CR increase||5||39||3.5>>
Feat<<Fling Ally||Can effect incorporeal allies||5||39||3.5>>
Monster<<Shrieker||Stat block incorrect due to non-abilities being misinterpreted||5||40||3.5>>
Blood Moon sign anyone know what this is please ? Is it a class feature, a feat or ... ?
???<<Blood Moon sign||Raging makes you comatose||5||38||3.5>>
Fixed by errata so no dysfunction
Spell<<Wither Limb||Withering a winged creatures legs slows it to 5' movement per round||5||38||3.5>>
Spell<<Wither Limb||Withering someone's legs mid-jump slows their jump to 5' round||5||38||3.5>>
There was a claim on page 40 that SU abilities require a Std Action to use. This was from a Q&A session the SRD disagrees (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm).
deuxhero
2014-08-31, 04:08 PM
Nethys is another host of Paizo's OGL content. It's generally referenced for PF stuff that include product identity (names of characters/places ect) because unlike d20pfsrd they aren't "commercial" and Paizo allows them to use them without editing away the names.
It does have some "third party" material in the form of 3.5 books from Paizo as well as the PF stuff by them, but most of them have something legal for PFS and are still canon to the PF world and it's all marked "3.5"
at the top.
Nethys is another host of Paizo's OGL content. It's generally referenced for PF stuff that include product identity (names of characters/places ect) because unlike d20pfsrd they aren't "commercial" and Paizo allows them to use them without editing away the names.
It does have some "third party" material in the form of 3.5 books from Paizo as well as the PF stuff by them, but most of them have something legal for PFS and are still canon to the PF world and it's all marked "3.5"
at the top.
Thanks I've got them now.
deuxhero
2014-08-31, 05:11 PM
Item<<Greatcoat||Can create intelligent creatures||5||38||3.PF>>
1: Item is "Pathfinder Greatcoat" (as in, associated with the Pathfinder organization)
2: More along the lines of "Can create living intelligent creature capable of reproduction with no duration". Intelligent constructs or undead aren't too hard to make and aren't dysfunctional, but living creatures (especially ones capable of reproduction) are.
Item<<Greatcoat||Can create intelligent creatures||5||38||3.PF>>
1: Item is "Pathfinder Greatcoat" (as in, associated with the Pathfinder organization)
2: More along the lines of "Can create living intelligent creature capable of reproduction with no duration". Intelligent constructs or undead aren't too hard to make and aren't dysfunctional, but living creatures (especially ones capable of reproduction) are.
Ah, confusing name fixed, thanks.
Also, brevity and concision if people want the details they can go to the original thread.
KorbeltheReader
2014-09-01, 10:35 AM
I'll make a start on thread 5.
Picking up pages 1-5
...
<<Monster||Vorr||Shadow Form has DR 50/+5, but no clause saying it can't attack while in that form||5||1||3.x>>
...
<<Monster||Vorr||Is Blind, but the rules seem to not see this||5||4||3.x>>
Quick clarification here: these are in fact 2 separate monsters. There is the vorr, a hyenalike creature out of the Fiend Folio that get Shadow Form, and the voor, a xenomorph-like yugoloth from the MMIV that has no eyes.
Quick clarification here: these are in fact 2 separate monsters. There is the vorr, a hyenalike creature out of the Fiend Folio that get Shadow Form, and the voor, a xenomorph-like yugoloth from the MMIV that has no eyes.
Thanks I'll update this when I update the main collection in a few days.
I'll grab pages 41-45 next
Flaw<<Hot-Blooded and Cold-Blooded||Can take both at the same time||5||41||3.5>>
Item<<Bone Paste||Metal, stone, ceramic are inorganic||5||41||3.PF>>
Spell<<Flame Blade||Blade is always 3' long, no matter what size the weilder is||5||41||3.5>>
Spell<<Scimitar of Sand||Blade is always 3' long, no matter what size the weilder is||5||41||3.5>>
Spell<<Blade of Pain and Fear||Blade is always 3' long, no matter what size the weilder is||5||41||3.5>>
Spell<<Flame Dagger||Blade is always 3' long, no matter what size the weilder is||5||41||3.5>>
Feat<<Eldritch Claws||Are always 1' long, no matter what size the weilder is||5||41||3.5>>
Base class?<<Initiator classes||If you have RHD taking a level of an initiator class reduces your IL||5||41||3.5>>
?Combat<<Reach weapons||Can go through adjacent foes||5||41||3.5>>
Combat<<Reach weapons||Can attack adjacent large+ creatures, without cover||5||41||3.5>>
Spell<<Magnetic Field||Ignores worn metal items, unless they are Armour||5||41||3.PF>>
?<<Familiar can have 0 HP||5||41||3.5>>
Spell<<Forceward||Is stationary and yet moves with you||5||41||3.5>>
Misc<<Swim check||Strength scales by size. Swim check DCs do not||5||42||3.5>>
Template<<Mineral Warrior||Increases Strength, So turning into a rock makes you swim better||5||42||3.5>>
PrC<<Various Spellcasting classes||Do not increase all casting variables||5||42||3.5>>
Spell<<Bigby's Grasping Hand||Can start a Grapple, but not much else||5||42||3.5>>
Combat<<Can cleave through millions of opponents||5||42||3.5>>
Skill<<Concentration||Must make concentration check to manifest powers if you are under the effect of one of your own powers||5||43||3.5>>
Skill<<Concentration||Manifesting whilst paralyzed provokes, unless you make a concentration check||5||43||3.5>>
Skill<<Jump||Running start does not have to be in the same direction as the Jump||5||43||3.5>>
Combat<<Grappling||When Grappling Oozes they are not allowed to attack you with their acid||5||43||3.5>>
Feat<<Paralyzing Fists||Triggers when you make two Stunning Fist attacks in a round, which is not allowed unless you also have an unrelated feat||5||43||3.5>>
Feat<<Animal Friend||Gives Wild empathy bonus for creatures which are immune to Wild empathy||5||43||3.5>>
Misc<<Enemies||People who attack you are no longer enemies||5||44||3.5>>
Spell<<Various||Specifically target undead with a Fort save, which the undead are immune to||5||44||3.5>>
Misc<<Various effects||Duration specified in years, or months, term which may have no meaning||5||44||3.5>>
Monster<<Mountain Landwyrm||Has a bite attack that deals 4d18+16 damage||5||45||3.5>>
Pages 46-49 next
Monster<<Dragons||Hoards are too small for them to sleep on||5||46||3.5>>
Combat<<Grappling||Very low strenght characters become more mobile when pinned||5||46||3.PF>>
Combat<<Reach/Throw||Colossal character have greater reach than their thrown weapon range||5||46||3.5>>
Spell<<Memory of Function||Mends things, temporarily||5||46||3.PF>>
Manouvre<<Island of Blades||Unusable by tiny or smaller sized characters||5||46||3.5>>
PrC<<Order of the cockatrice cavalier||Challenge ability only works on self||5||47||3.PF>>
Misc<<Candle||Can hide in candlelight, even in daylight||5||47||3.5>>
Item<<Various Kits||Inconsistencies between UE and AGC kits||5||47||3.PF>>
Spell<<Mind Blank||Blocks True Seeing ? Various interpretations||5||47||3.5>>
Misc<<Sickened||Doesn't stack with itself||5||47||3.5,3.PF>>
Misc<<Rot Grub Swarm infestation||Disease gains victim's energy resistance||5||47||3.PF>>
Item<<Physician's Spectacles||Give constant effect detect poison and diagnose disease, which are instantaneous effects||5||48||3.PF>>
PrC<<Anima Mage||Gets Metamagic vestige with no listed uses, until the next level||5||48||3.5>>
Item<<Crucifixion Cross||Takes 10 hours to kill you, regardless||5||48||3.5>>
Spell<<Sanctify the Wicked||Changes target's alignement in the Law/Chaos plane, but also doesn't||5||48||3.5>>
template<<Sanctified||Changes target's alignement in the Law/Chaos plane, but also doesn't||5||48||3.5>>
PrC<<Spelldancer||Can enhance spells from the School of Invocation||5||48||3.5>>
Spell<<Lava Splash||Deals 1d4 points of fire damage per level, max 15d6||5||49||3.5>>
Spell<<Heat metal, Chill metal||Unattended objects get no save, but it only targets attended objects||5||49||3.5,3.PF>>
Spell<<Heat metal, Chill metal||Unattended objects have no size limitation||5||49||3.5,3.PF>>
Spell<<Heat metal, Chill metal||Extend spell would cause weird effects||5||49||3.5,3.PF>>
#1401 I'm not sure that this one is actually a dysfunction just overpowered.
Spell<<Diagnose Disease||Spell is overpowered||5||47||3.PF>>
I'll pick up page 50 when the threads done and then update the tables
Pages 50-51 now
Spell<<Revive undead||Targets have to be willing||5||50||3.5>>
ACF<<Favored of the Fiends||Does not require evil alignment; yet it gives you evil claws||5||50||3.5>>
PrC<<Pyrokineticist's Nimbus ability, sets you on fire and increases your Charisma||5||50||3.5>>
Feat<<Extra Panache||Increases Panache indefinately||5||50||3.5>>
Monster<<Inferno Spider||Does fire damage to characters who hit it with missile weapons||5||50||3.5>>
archetype<<Brawler-Exemplar ||Grants Teamwork feats gained from Martial Flexibility. Martial Flexibility can't grant Teamwork feats||5||50||3.PF>>
Feat<<Improved Familiar||Grants a template which gives CR based SR to Familiars, who don't have CR||5||50||3.PF>>
Feat<<Celestial Servant||Grants a template which gives CR based SR to Animal companions, who don't have CR||5||50||3.PF>>
Template<<Entropic Creature||Can be applied to inappropriate creatures||5||50||3.5>>
Template<<Vivacious Creature|Can be applied to inappropriate creatures||5||50||3.5>>
Template<<Bloodhulk||Does not care about base body||5||50||3.5>>
Class<<Monk||Unarmed attacks being considered manufactured lead to various strangeness||5||51||3.5,3.PF>>
Spell<<Memorize Page||Page is undefined||5||51||3.PF>>
Spell<<Modify Memory||Can remove a Page of information, but is defined by time||5||51||3.PF>>
Template<<Bhaalspawn||PCs get fewer benefits than NPCs||5||50-51||3.5>>
Spell<<Cry of Ysgard||Summons 2d4 Bariaur defenders, but controls at most 4||5||51||3.5>>
Feat<<Truename Training||Weird interaction with Able Learner||5||51||3.5>>
I'm in the process of updating the Handbook, but I have a couple I don't understand
Blood Moon sign anyone know what this is please ? Is it a class feature, a feat or ... ?
???<<Blood Moon sign||Raging makes you comatose||5||38||3.5>>
Which class does this apply to ?
ACF<<Favored of the Fiends||Does not require evil alignment; yet it gives you evil claws||5||50||3.5>>
The Viscount
2014-09-21, 09:12 PM
Favored of the Fiends is an alternative class feature of Favored Soul.
Gadora
2014-09-21, 09:55 PM
The Blood Moon sign is a sign that an Elder Evil, the dread Hulks of Zoretha, stir once more.
That is to say, it's a thing from the book Elder Evils, and probably doesn't get sorted more cleanly than 'sign of an apocalypse.' It's sort of like mystical weather.
In BoVD, there is a race that is just like humans, only they get a bonus vile feat at first level. Humans can also choose to get a bonus vile feat at first level. This race is a direct downgrade to humans.
The Viscount
2014-09-21, 11:09 PM
In BoVD, there is a race that is just like humans, only they get a bonus vile feat at first level. Humans can also choose to get a bonus vile feat at first level. This race is a direct downgrade to humans.
Wrong thread, friend. This is just a compilation thread. You'll want this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372964-Dysfunctional-Rules-VI-Magic-Circle-Against-Errata&p=18144905#post18144905) thread, the current version where we post dysfunction.
Thanks guys, Handbook should now be up to date.
Seppo87
2014-09-24, 07:39 AM
Factotum's Cunning Strike does not specify a duration. RAW, the sneak attack die lasts forever.
Chronos
2014-09-24, 08:22 AM
Again, wrong thread.
deuxhero
2014-10-29, 01:28 AM
These two seem to have been missed
PrC|Pure Legion Enforcer|Made to stamp out divine casting. Gets divine SLAs|5|25|PF
PrC|Pure Legion Enforcer|Gets bonus to determine if a spell is divine, but there's no check to tell if a spell is arcane or divine to apply it to|5|25|PF
OK time to catch up with Thread 6.
I'll grab pages 1-5
Feat<<Truename Training||Less useful if you already took Able Learner||6||1||3.5>>
Monster<<Stench ability||Effects you even if you can't smell||6||1||3.5>>
Spell<<Polymorph||Weird interaction with Shapechangers changing back||6||1||3.5>>
Monster<<Undead mount||Have special riding rules which match the standard undead control rules||6||1||3.5>>
Spell<<Toothed Tentacle||Requires the Swift Concentration skill trick if you want the spell to work||6||1||3.5>>
PrC<<Beloved of Valarian||Many Beloved of Valarians cannot ride their own unicorn||6||1||3.5>>
PrC<<Wild Mages||Can cast spells with a CL of 0 or less||6||1||3.5>>
Monster<<Sunfly Swarm||Has two SLAs: Detect evil and Detect evil||6||1||3.5>>
Race<<Subtypes||Can have the same sub-type twice||6||2||3.5>>
Feat<<Obscure Personal Truename||Makes it harder to speak your own truename||6||2||3.5>>
Class<<Healer||Many Healers cannot ride their own unicorn||6||2||3.5>>
Combat<<Charging||Double damage depends upon being mounted not upon speed||6||2-3||3.5>>
Monster<<Tarrasque||A no-save-just-die will work on the Tarrasque||6||4||3.5>>
Class<<Cleric|with the Artifice and Rune domains get Instant Summons, but can't use it||6||4||3.PF>>
Utterance<<Incarnation of Angels||Grants [Extraplanar] type, which means that they can be banished but to where ?||6||4||3.5>>
Class<<Maho-tsukai||Maho metamagic assumes all metamagic feats change a spell's level||6||4||3.5>>
Feat<<Up The Walls||Requires you to end your turn on a horizontal surface, or you fall||6||5||3.5>>
Spell<<Shatter||Doesn't define what happens to Objects, when targeted directly||6||5||3.5>>
Kurald Galain
2015-01-18, 12:19 PM
So, are existing entries in the handbook still open to discussion?
I'm asking because I came across the entry for "Brawler-Exemplar", which reads "Grants Teamwork feats gained from Martial Flexibility. Martial Flexibility can't grant Teamwork feats". This is actually not the case: while Martial Flex gives combat feats, there are numerous feats which count as both combat and as teamwork at the same time. So yes, Martial Flex can grant teamwork feats.
So, are existing entries in the handbook still open to discussion?
I'm asking because I came across the entry for "Brawler-Exemplar", which reads "Grants Teamwork feats gained from Martial Flexibility. Martial Flexibility can't grant Teamwork feats". This is actually not the case: while Martial Flex gives combat feats, there are numerous feats which count as both combat and as teamwork at the same time. So yes, Martial Flex can grant teamwork feats.
Absolutely: if an error has been made however if you are arguing about the original definition then it should go in the current main thread. The original post was here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18122745&postcount=1499).
Ed:
if the error is in the handbook description then I will pick that up in the next update; speaking of which I'm going to grab pages 6-10 next.
Misc<<Ability scores||Negative adjustments to ability scores: are they Penalties or Decreases ?||6||6||3.PF>>
Feats<<Weapon groups||Do not contain any Nets||6||6||3.5>>
Spells<<Research||Cantrips can be researched instantly||6||6||3.PF>>
Spells<<Research||Research rules grant Sorcerers infinite Spells Known||6||6||3.PF>>
Template<<Ravenous(Undead)||Skeletons and Fossils can eat||6||6||3.5(Dr#319)>>
Template<<Fleshvigor(Undead)||Rainment can eat||6||6||3.5(Dr#315)>>
Spell<<Undeath after Death||Causes application of Crypt spawn template, which is undefined||6||6||3.5>>
Monster<<Black Dragonspawn||Acid breath does Fire damage||6||6||3.5>>
Spell<<Shatter||Doesn't define what happens to certain Objects, when targeted directly||6||5-6||3.5>>
PrCs<<various||Caster Level, Spellcaster Level and Spellcasting Class undefined (Except see Yathrinshee*)||6||7(10*)||3.5>>
Spell<<Ability Rip||Can turn a creature to wight||6||7||3.5>>
Spell<<Aboleth Curse||Undefined material component||6||7||3.5>>
Misc<<Wights||Negative levels applied to an animal produces a Wight, which is not a template||6||7||3.5>>
PrCs<<Arcane Hierophant||Companion Familiar requires you to dismiss your familiar; but only temporarily||6||8||3.5>>
Spell<<Burial Blessing||[Good] but can be used by Evil clerics||6||8||3.0>>
Spell<<Create Chosen One||Sorcerer 5, Wizard 5; but only evil Wizards can cast this spell||6||8||3.5>>
Spell<<Marked Object||Ranger spell, but they can't use it||6||8||3.5>>
PrCs<<Warforged Juggernaut||Expert Bull Rush can break down doors, but not walls; no matter what they are made of||6||9||3.5>>
Trait<<Muscle of society||+2 to break down doors, but not walls; no matter what they are made of||6||9||3.PF>>
old Misc<<Fire||Can't burn lumber||6||9||3.5>>
Equipment<<Disguise kit is "exhausted" after 10 uses, not used up||6||10||3.5>>
PrCs<<Fiend of blasphemy||Sponsor cultist ability has no mechanical effect*||6||10||3.5>>
Spell<<Animate with the Spirit||Undefined effects realting to innate abilities||6||10||3.5>>
Spell<<Planar Familiar||Cleric spell which works on a class-feature companion, which Clerics don't have||6||10||3.5>>
Equipment<<Epic items||Don't contain any alignment components||6||10||3.5>>
ERROR Previous Necropolitan entry should say positive energy and not curing spells 6||6
Gadora
2015-01-18, 04:17 PM
OK I'm going to do the compositing now.
I'm going to change
Combat|TWF|Undefined for most ranged weapons, including slings|4|49|3.PF
to
Combat|TWF|Undefined for most ranged weapons|4|49|3.PF
Shout if this is wrong and I'll fix it.
On the note of errors in the handbook, this error is still there. Slings are still one of the handful of defined ranged weapons. :smalltongue:
Kurald Galain
2015-01-18, 04:21 PM
You know what would really help? If you turned the thread number and page number (in the list on the first page) into a hyperlink instead. That would make it much easier for people to go from this index to the discussion about a particular dysfunction. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes with a search/replace function to do this.
On the note of errors in the handbook, this error is still there. Slings are still one of the handful of defined ranged weapons. :smalltongue:
Oops It will be fixed in the next update, I've just edited the .txt file. :smallredface:
You know what would really help? If you turned the thread number and page number (in the list on the first page) into a hyperlink instead. That would make it much easier for people to go from this index to the discussion about a particular dysfunction. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes with a search/replace function to do this.
That's a good idea unfortunately
It would break the size limits on the pages.
Since there are 270+ pages: that's a lot of edits
Some references cover multiple pages
It's a lot of work for future references
Kurald Galain
2015-01-18, 05:39 PM
Since there are 270+ pages: that's a lot of edits
Some references cover multiple pages
You could link to the first page that covers it, just as most of the list does now.
It's only six edits actually. That's because all pages of a thread have a similar URL, e.g. www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372964/page22 - that means that if you search/replace ||6|| (as in "thread 6") by "www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372964/page", then something like ||6||15 (as in "thread 6 page 15") will automatically become www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372964/page15 and so forth.
Note that even though the default URL for a thread is something like "372964-Dysfunctional-Rules-VI-Magic-Circle-Against-Errata", you actually only need the numerical part for it to work. HTH!
Well the actual format for the table entries is
Bleakborn(LM)Cannot be destroyed with HP damage2243.5
the << || >> are just symbols I already edit.
So, specifying the match string is non-trivial.
Also, the space problems are non-trivial.
kaoskonfety
2015-02-12, 06:39 AM
Feat|Craft Wand|Wand of Identify requires crafter to drink 50 glasses of wine in 1 day|2|1
Snip...
This is not a bug, its a feature
Zweisteine
2015-03-08, 04:54 PM
So... Is this thread still being updated? Or do we wait until the thread is done?
The Viscount
2015-03-10, 07:10 PM
It's updated whenever a kind soul takes enough time to compile dysfunctions from the threads (which as you can see is not super often).
Deepbluediver
2015-03-11, 09:05 AM
It's updated whenever a kind soul takes enough time to compile dysfunctions from the threads (which as you can see is not super often).
I did a few pages one time- the hardest part is figuring out how to describe often complex problems in less than a sentence in a way that still makes sense.
So... Is this thread still being updated? Or do we wait until the thread is done?
This thread is still being updated it's just that I've been Ill and also out of the country. Also: it is meant to be crowd sourced, so don't complain, instead pick up five pages and summarise them.
OK I'm going to pick up pages 11-15
Combat<<Catapults cannot shoot over walls||No indirect fire rules LoS only||6||10-11||3.5>>
Spell<<Expeditious retreat||is better at boosting Jump checks than the jump spell until you hit CL 5||6||11||3.5>>
Spell<<Expeditious retreat||Boosts Jump more for slower characters||6||11||3.5>>
class<<Succubus racial class||Summon Balor ill defined||6||11||3.5>>
Spell<<Sanctified spells||Cannot be cast by non vancian casters, even gods||6||11||3.5>>
Spell<<Sanctified spells||Can be used by non vancian casters with a scroll, but not via other items||6||11||3.5>>
Feat<<Corrupt Arcana||Can give access to Sanctified spells||6||11||3.5>>
Invocation<<Eldritch Glaive||Do you add Strength ? Can you Power Attack ? The rules are unclear||6||11||3.5>>
Spell<<Winged Watcher||Makes your Int 2, which turns you into an NPC||6||11||3.5>>
???<<Intelligence||Min 3 int at chargen, even if you manage to get it lower than that||6||12||3.5>>
Class<<Cleric||Can spontaneously cast Obscure Object and Secure Corpse because they contain the word cure||6||12||3.5>>
familiar<<Shocker Lizard has the Electricity sub-type, which doesn't exist||6||12||3.5>>
Weapons<<Light Flail and Halfspear||Can be found in random loot, but not in the weapon table||6||12-13||3.5>>
Feat<<Deceptive Illumination||Says class level for a racial ability||6||13||3.5>>
Weapons<<Ammunition||Various disfunctions||6||13||3.5>>
Spell<<Feline Distraction||Table poorly defined||6||13||3.5>>
Template<<Dream Element||Removes Wisdom, so you're an object now||6||14||3.5>>
Race<<Dvati||Have flank bonus, but cannot flank with themselves||6||14||3.5>>
archetype<<Twlight Sage||Must prepare at least one necromancy spell of each spell level, but often can't. No defined penalty anyway||6||14||3.PF>>
Monster<<Devourer||Has lesser planar ally as an SLA, but cannot pay anything it calls, as it has no treasure||6||14||3.5>>
Skills<<Knowledge||DC's confused by Templates||6||15||3.5>>
Trait<<Twinned Presence||Size bonus to intimidate from your Eidolon, even if it's out of sight||6||15||3.PF>>
Yari of Air, Bo of Water and Tetsubo of Earth from Oriental Adventures (all 6 feet) and Moon Blade from Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3 feet) are more examples of the "always #' long, no matter what size the weilder is" dysfunction covered in the last thread.
Octopus issues are covered under aquatics already the problem is wider than you think.
Jowgen
2015-04-03, 08:38 AM
Spot It's impossible to see the Sun, moon, stars, etc 1;2 2-5,21;2 3.5
This actually isn't a dysfunction, but an apparent dysfunction that is fixed by a very obscure rule; namely that light sources can be Spotted at 10/5 times their radius of bright/shadowy illumination (DC 20), or are automatically noticed at half that distance; provided they are respectively brighter than the ambient light. It's a rule that I've only ever seen spelled out very sporadically in obscure books (e.g. p. 73 of Cormyr -The tearing of the weave); but it does plug quite a big hole in the rules.
Chronos
2015-04-03, 02:11 PM
That fixes the Sun and Moon, but not the stars.
Troacctid
2015-04-03, 02:18 PM
That fixes the Sun and Moon, but not the stars.
Isn't starlight considered dim light? I vaguely remember something like that in the rules for low-light vision. That would put us within the illumination radius of the stars.
If we're not within the radius, we're at least within ten times the radius, which lets us see the stars with a DC 20 Spot check. Most people wouldn't have good enough eyesight to Spot every star in the sky, but that's normal and expected.
Erm, can you re-post the above three posts into the current dysfunctional rules thread please.
Ed:
OK I'm going to pick up pages 16-20
PrC<<Disciple of the Word||Can make a Truespeak check to bypass DR, but no information about alignment based DR||6||16||3.5>>
Template<<Non-humanoids can become dragonborn and gain the humanoid type while possibly retaining their original type||6||16||3.5>>
Item<<Anti-Toxin||Can increases the chance that you will die from poison||6||16||3.5>>
PrC<<Spherewalker||Can turn into a swarm while casting normally, only they suffer the usual penalties for casting from inside a swarm||6||16||3.PF>>
Spell<<Cape of Wasps||Has a lot of apparently-unintended drawbacks||6||16||3.PF>>
Book<<Serpent Kingdoms||Whole book is filled with Dysfunctions||6||16-17||3.5>>
Item<<Injury Poison||If delivered via Unarmed attack can be applied anywhere||6||17||3.5>>
spell<<Surmount Affliction||Temporarily alleviates numerous conditions many of which would prevent you casting it||6||18||3.PF>>
Item<<Sugliin||Easier to use of you are not proficient||6||18||3.5>>
archetype<<Mutation Warrior||Signature ability doesn't work||6||18||3.PF>>
Misc<<City population||Small settlements can have more people with non-Commoner classes than their population||6||18-19||3.5>>
Misc<<Followers of Gorum||Forbidden from casting the rusting grasp spell but can still use Transmute Metal to Wood||6||19||3.PF>>
Misc<<Eidolon||Can have the Sticky evolution on the Slippery evolution and vice versa||6||19||3.PF>>
Item<<Potions and Elixiers||Potions are Elixiers, only they are not||6||19||3.5>>
Class<<Gunslinger||Cannot use their Gunslinger's Dodge deed when not wearing armor||6||19||3.PF>>
PrC<<Horizon Walker||Underground Terrain Mastery is a bit strange||6||19||3.PF>>
Feat<<Improved Share Spells*||Doesn't require Share Spells, and other issues||6||20||3.PF>>
Race<<Humans||Are not defined as Humanoid||6||20||3.5>>
Now for pages 21-25
Misc<<Community Wealth and Population||Rediculous number of items available for purchase in most towns||6||21||3.5>>
Monster types<<Plants||Breath air, with weird interactions with limited air and non-plant creatures||6||21||3.5>>
Monster types<<Oozes are not immune to Bleed effects||6||21||3.PF>>
Skill<<Balance||Doesn't scale with size||6||21||3.5>>
Skill<<Sleight Of Hand||Cannot conceal non-weapon items, even just weapons which are too small for you||6||21||3.5>>
Item<<Potion of Protection from arrows||Scales with CL, unlike the spell||6||22||3.5>>
Class<<Monk||Weapons are Confused||6||22||3.PF>>
Race<<Halfling||Halfling luck bonus is not a luck bonus||6||22||3.PF>>
Feat<<Graft Flesh||You must be of the specified type to apply Grafts to others||6||23||3.5>>
Feat<<Heighten Spell||Cannot be used with Divive Metamagic||6||23||3.5>>
Misc<<Portals, one way||What happens if you stick part of yourself through?||6||23||3.5>>
Misc<<Manacles||Easy to escape from: just use them as improvised weapons until they break||6||23||3.PF>>
Item<<Meditiation Crystal channel focus||Only works for Monk's Ki Pool||6||23||3.5>>
Misc<<Bound||Binding someone's hands paralysises them and well several dysfunctions follow||6||24||3.5>>
Feat<<Illithid Heritage||Can be, or is always, inappropriate||6||25||3.5>>
Feat<<Monk Vow||Only works for Monk's Ki Pool||6||25||3.PF>>
Misc<<Fatigue and exhaustion||Do not make a character more vulnerable to sleep effects||6||25||3.x>>
Item<<Boomerang, Xendrik and Talenta||Are ranged thrown weapons, but are they light or one-handed, or ?||6||25||3.5>>
Spell<<Incorporeal nova||Targets undead with a Death effect, to which they are immune||6||25||3.5>>
Pages 26-30 now
Template<<Half-Troll||Makes Outsiders Extraplanar||6||26||3.5>>
Template<<Incarnate Construct||Can remove the plating of a Warforged||6||27||3.5>>
Feat<<Elusive Target||Weird interactions with the Grappling rules||6||28||3.5>>
Misc<<Dwarf||Can throw NI Shields in a round||6||29||3.PF>>
Feat<<Power Attack||You can Power attack with a regular gauntlet, but not a Spiked one||6||29||3.5>>
Feat<<Requiem||Bardic music works on undead, but only for half as long as you play||6||30||3.5>>
UtteranceDescriptionThreadPagesVersion
All LCT/LPMOddly low level (eg Gate at 4th)*6293.5
Analyse ItemMay or may not reveal the hidden properties of cursed items.6293.5
Analyse ItemDoes and doesn't work as Identify.6293.5
Archer's EyeShoot things you can't see without penalty.6293.5
Ether ReforgedLasts forever and can't be dispelled, causing eternally ethereal opponents and allies that can attack them.6293.5
Greater Energy NegationIs written in a stupid way that makes it look like it can resist everything but it can't*.6293.5
Hidden TruthDoesn't tell you which knowledge check it's useful for.6293.5
Hidden Truth (R)Doesn't last long enough to use properly.*6293.5
Incarnation of Angels (N/R)Can banish creatures to nowhere in particular.6293.5
Preternatural ClarityTalks about rerolls you might not have; therefore might grant rerolls but doesn't say it does.6293.5
Sensory FocusInfinite-range blindsight*6293.5
ShockwaveHas a duration but doesn't use it.6293.5
Spell RebirthTargets a creature but doesn't do anything with it. Functional effect may therefore have unlimited range.6293.5
Spell Rebirth (R)Targets a creature so can dispel epic spells with DC 16 check.6293.5
Spell Rebirth (R)Funky wording may allow counterspells which can't fail if you make the check.6293.5
Transmute WeaponNo-one's quite sure what a special material is.6293.5
Transmute WeaponWhat happens if you turn a weapon to Thinaun, it steals a soul, and turns to steel again?6293.5
Word of Nurturing, anyTargets one creature and affects another. Functional effect may therefore have unlimited range.6293.5
ClassDescriptionThreadPagesVersion
All truenaming PrCsDon't advance truespeak ability6293.5
TruenamerCapstone may let you keep saying your name as a free action and teleporting next to yourself; never specified what square you end up in even if used normally.6293.5
MiscDescriptionThreadPagesVersion
The Law of SequenceCan be turned off with pseudo-heighten6293.5
The Universe Hears Just FineYou might want to be silenced; unclear what happens with Silent SLA or AMM: Silent6293.5
Pages 31-35 next
Greater Energy Negation is not a dysfunction p31
Template<<Tieflings (variant)||Tieflings don't change the language given||6||31||3.PF>>
Monster<<Mobs||One special attack effects them all, well maybe||6||33-34||3.5>>
Monster<<Special Attacks and Special Qualities||Several dysfunctions||6||34||3.5>>
Monster<<Spellcasting creature||Does no get class features if advanced in a spellcasting class||6||34||3.5>>
Spell<<Breath of life||Assumes that you died by loss of HP||6||34||3.PF>>
Monster<<Shadow||Create Spawn Ability works even if the character has been raised||6||34||3.PF>>
Feat<<Planar Touchstone||Expends the required object which stop this from working||6||34-35||3.5>>
Feat<<Improved combat reflexes||Infite loop if opponent has Epic combat reflexes and no one has Improved sunder||6||35||3.5>>
The Whole Epic spell system is dysfunctional
Poor Metaphors are not dysfunctions
Pages 36-40 now
The Completely Dysfunctional Handbook: Fling Ally, Banishment/Dismissal, Crack Ice and Darkseed say "Effect" when they mean "Affect".
Spell<<Contact Other Plane||Do you have to take one INT/CHA check, or one INT/CHA check per question?||6||36||3.5>>
Skill<<Concentration||What makes you "Threatened" or "Distracted" enough to stop you taking 10?||6||36||3.5>>
Item<<Gnomish Crossbow Sight||Range bounding error||6||36||3.5>>
Spell<<Touch of the Sea spell||Gives the target a Swim speed and lets the caster use the Run action while swimming||6||36||3.PF>>
Race<<Hellbred||Never gains negative levels while wielding evil magic items||6||36||3.5>>
Combat<<Thrown Melee weapons||Several dysfunctions||6||37||3.5>>
Feat<<Several||Many feats granting skill points don't allow you to spend them||6||37||3.5>>
Spell<<Share Shape||Doesn't work on Familiars because Familiars are never animals||6||38||3.PF>>
Spell<<Share Shape||Doesn't work on Animal Companions if you have a Familiar||6||38||3.PF>>
Soulmelds<<several||Provide static Essentia bonuses||6||38||3.5>>
Feat<<Invest Armor||Has no duration||6||38||3.5>>
Feat<<Equipment trick||Several possible dysfunctions, well maybe||6||39||3.5>>
Class<<Master Thrower||Gets Snatch Arrows, but can't use it||6||40||3.5>>
Item<<Holy Bombs||Don't work against undead||6||40||3.PF>>
Item<<Kinslayer weapons||Do extra damage against your kin, but don't specify how closely related they have to be||6||40||3.PF>>
Monster<<Balor||Vorpal sword is an (Su) ability||6||40||3.5>>
Disarm/Gauntlets dysfunction not mentioned in Combat section (Page 27 of thread 1). Well many dysfunctions could be listed under several catagories, but I'll add this one.
Thread 6 collated up to page 40
Kurald Galain
2015-04-16, 09:43 AM
Feat<<Equipment trick||Several possible dysfunctions, well maybe||6||39||3.5>>
You should reword this to the much funnier (and more RAW-accurate) "Carrying an anvil gives you a bonus on climbing checks" :smallbiggrin:
You should reword this to the much funnier (and more RAW-accurate) "Carrying an anvil gives you a bonus on climbing checks" :smallbiggrin:
Well IIRC you did list several other features, and lots of people complained about it not being a dysfunction for various reasons. Now they were possibly right because: no house-rule required but I've changed it anyway.
Kurald Galain
2015-04-16, 10:08 AM
Well IIRC you did list several other features, and lots of people complained about it not being a dysfunction for various reasons. Now they were possibly right because: no house-rule required but I've changed it anyway.
Meh, the only counterarguments were "nuh uh" and "well, the evasion ability is also ridiculous" :smallbiggrin:
But if you want to get technical, the dysfunctions are
(1) the notion that climbers routinely use a counterweight, which as any rock climber or parkour runner will tell you is completely not the case;
(2) only anvils can be used as a counterweight, instead of rocks or anything heavy that you may have available;
(3) it requires specific training to tie an anvil to a rope; and
(4) the counterweight must weigh exactly 50 pounds, regardless of whether the climbing creature is a 28-pound halfling or a 350-pound half-orc wearing plate mail.
Debatra
2015-04-25, 01:08 PM
Martial StrikeAllows infinite healing2283.5
I can't seem to find this feat or any reference to it other than here and the second thread.
I can't seem to find this feat or any reference to it other than here and the second thread.
That would be because it's a Devoted Spirit Stance and not a feat.
I'll fix the handbook at some point.
rrwoods
2015-05-04, 02:27 PM
Also that stance is named "martial spirit". I was wondering what a stance was doing with the word "strike" in the name.
OK - two errors. At least that one is not mine :smallbiggrin:
Story
2015-05-18, 10:41 PM
Meh, the only counterarguments were "nuh uh" and "well, the evasion ability is also ridiculous" :smallbiggrin:
But if you want to get technical, the dysfunctions are
(1) the notion that climbers routinely use a counterweight, which as any rock climber or parkour runner will tell you is completely not the case;
(2) only anvils can be used as a counterweight, instead of rocks or anything heavy that you may have available;
(3) it requires specific training to tie an anvil to a rope; and
(4) the counterweight must weigh exactly 50 pounds, regardless of whether the climbing creature is a 28-pound halfling or a 350-pound half-orc wearing plate mail.
Could you explain the anvil trick please? I haven't heard of it before.
Kurald Galain
2015-05-19, 04:14 AM
Could you explain the anvil trick please? I haven't heard of it before.
Well, there's this feat called Equipment Trick, which is basically a list of items you could carry and tricks you could do with it. Whereas most tricks are for commonly carried items like a rope or a sunrod, the designer who wrote that decided to put a friggin' anvil on the list as well, and then started thinking of things you could do with an anvil (and only with an anvil). For some obscure reason, likely the fact that the designer has never climbed anything in his life ever, he decided that an anvil (and only an anvil) gives you a bonus to climb checks.
So yes. Carrying an anvil gives you a bonus to climb checks. Wile E. Coyote would be proud! :smallbiggrin:
grarrrg
2015-06-13, 02:16 PM
ArchetypesBrawler-Exemplar, Grants Teamwork feats gained from Martial Flexibility. Martial Flexibility can't grant Teamwork feats
Not a dysfunction.
Martial Flexibility grants "Combat" feats.
Exemplar grants "Teamwork feats gained from Martial Flexibility"
"Combat" and "Teamwork" are NOT mutually (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/broken-wing-gambit-combat-teamwork) exclusive (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/coordinated-charge-combat-teamwork).
Prestige Classes
Horizon Walker, Underground Terrain Mastery is a bit strange
Nitpick: Actually Underground Terrain Dominance feature.
Not a dysfunction.
Martial Flexibility grants "Combat" feats.
Exemplar grants "Teamwork feats gained from Martial Flexibility"
"Combat" and "Teamwork" are NOT mutually (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/broken-wing-gambit-combat-teamwork) exclusive (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/coordinated-charge-combat-teamwork).
Wrong thread, unless you think that the Handbook has misrepresented the original dysfunction.
This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18122745&postcount=1499) was the original post.
Nitpick: Actually Underground Terrain Dominance feature.
I don't understand your comment ?
The Original (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18615201&postcount=566) post referred to the Darkvision anomaly, though it doesn't seem to match with the SRD or DMG now that I check.
This handbook just summarises the debates in the discussion threads and stops us going over the same ground well most of the time anyway.
grarrrg
2015-06-13, 07:34 PM
Wrong thread, unless you think that the Handbook has misrepresented the original dysfunction.
This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18122745&postcount=1499) was the original post.
The "original dysfunction" is not a dysfunction.
I assume the root cause was that it was assumed that a Feat can be either a Combat feat or a Teamwork feat. But feats can be both, thus there is no dysfunction present, and it should be removed from the handbook.
A reply has been added to the current discussion thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?413407-Dysfunctional-Rules-VII-Mordenkainen-s-Dysfunction&p=19396640#post19396640).
I don't understand your comment ?
The Original (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18615201&postcount=566) post referred to the Darkvision anomaly, though it doesn't seem to match with the SRD or DMG now that I check.
The specific post referred to the Pathfinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/horizon-walker) Horizon Walker.
In PF the 'problem' ability is "Terrain Dominance" and not "Terrain Mastery", which is what I requested a fix on.
Although looking at the 3.5 Horizon Walker (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/horizonWalker.htm), it has similar issue:
"You have 60-foot darkvision, or 120-foot darkvision if you already had darkvision from another source."
If you have 120ft. Darkvision is will do nothing, if you have greater than 120ft. it is a downgrade.
Either way the 'Underground' option for Horizon WalkerS has issues.
For sake of brevity AND covering both version perhaps something along the lines of "Choosing Underground Terrain to increase Darkvision may not actually increase Darkvision"
The "original dysfunction" is not a dysfunction.
I assume the root cause was that it was assumed that a Feat can be either a Combat feat or a Teamwork feat. But feats can be both, thus there is no dysfunction present, and it should be removed from the handbook.
A reply has been added to the current discussion thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?413407-Dysfunctional-Rules-VII-Mordenkainen-s-Dysfunction&p=19396640#post19396640).
I'll await the outcome of the discussion.
The specific post referred to the Pathfinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/horizon-walker) Horizon Walker.
In PF the 'problem' ability is "Terrain Dominance" and not "Terrain Mastery", which is what I requested a fix on.
Although looking at the 3.5 Horizon Walker (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/horizonWalker.htm), it has similar issue:
"You have 60-foot darkvision, or 120-foot darkvision if you already had darkvision from another source."
If you have 120ft. Darkvision is will do nothing, if you have greater than 120ft. it is a downgrade.
Either way the 'Underground' option for Horizon WalkerS has issues.
For sake of brevity AND covering both version perhaps something along the lines of "Choosing Underground Terrain to increase Darkvision may not actually increase Darkvision"
Ah I was looking at the 3.5 SRD. I'll pick this up the next time I do an update.
Jormengand
2015-08-08, 12:33 PM
I'm just gonna put in the code for the table lines so you can copy them in, rather than trying to make them into a table. This takes us up to (and including, though there are none on the page) thread 7, page 8.
Races:
NumerousNo specified age category tables and/or height/weight charts.6483.5
Templates:
LycanthropeAllows giants to revert to their humanoid form76
Classes:
NumerousNo specified wealth at level 16483.5
NumerousNo definition of "Affected" might mean that some spells, such as illusions, sequester, fly, bane either affect random people for no good reason, or might mean they're useless because they don't affect anyone but the subject. It's not clear which.743.5
Arcane TricksterCan use Ranged Legerdemain twice per day, but only once per day.6473.5
BarbarianIf a barbarian would get Improved Uncanny Dodge, but has Uncanny Dodge, they get Improved Uncanny Dodge instead of Improved Uncanny Dodge.
BardSpells have verbal componts, except when they don't.6483.5
ClericYou can't get spells from demigods, but can get them from no god at all.743.5
Druid"A thousand faces" ability is and isn't an illusion.
Eldritch Knight, Loremaster, Mystic Theurge, ThaumaturgeDoes and doesn't raise CL.
Horizon WalkerFatigues you but you're immune733.5
Hulking HurlerCan catch weapons, but no mention of how.6433.5
Master ThrowerGets snatch arrows even if it doesn't meet the prerequisites. Snatch arrows doesn't work without the prerequisites.6403.5
MonkIf you're an outsider, at 20th level you are unlike other outsiders in that you can be brought back from the dead as though you were an outsider.713.5
MonkIf you're a construct, at 20th level you can be brought back from the dead as though you were a construct, who can't be brought back from the dead.
Stalker of KharashTrack Evil allows you to track creatures with "Normal" evil auras, which don't exist, but not "Faint" or "Moderate" which do.6423.0
Archetypes:
Snake/Wolf druidsCan't take their namesakes as domains6433.5
Traits:
AdoptedImprobable combinations (Eg tusked elves, dwarves who can spit ice)641PF
Feats
Combat style featsSome feats are combat and style, but not combat style.72PF
TirelessFatigues you but you're immune733.5
Spells:
Preparing Divine SpellsGeneral rule is contradicted by every class who would use it.647PF
Acid SheatheYou can breathe in space.6473.5
Aiming At the TargetDoes and doesn't require speech.6473.5
AmanuensisInvalidates itself the moment it begins.6473.5
AmplifyEverything is louder but no-one notices; You can take a save even if the spell doesn't affect you.6473.5
Anarchic/Axiomatic/Bless/Curse waterDon't work if water isn't in a flask.6473.5
Animate BreathPersonal, but targets your breath weapon.6473.5
Animate DeadDestroys the creature as it creates it.763.5
Aspect of the WerebeastIf you have a bite, can free-action trip. This doesn't require you to make any bite attacks.73
Create undeadCan make a deathshead only within narrow CL band6473.5
EnthrallIf anyone, whether your ally or your direst enemy, attacks a creature you've enthralled, then each enthralled creature becomes unfriendly - even if they were hostile before they were enthralled - and every creature with 4+ HD or 16+ Wis turns hostile even if they weren't enthralled. No-one's sure who they're hostile towards.
Lightning LeapOdd combos with mastery of shaping or sculpt spell6483.5
Secure Shelter"Cure" in name, so valid for spontaneous conversion.6463.5
Spell WormCreature takes standard actions and makes decisions without them, or anyone else, noticing.6463.5
Powers:
Form of Doom+10 to disguise but you can't use it to disguise.6423.5
Utterance:
Temporal TwistAllows creature to make an "Attack", which includes casting epic spells with days-long cast times.
Equipment:
Arrowdeath flailYou can deflect arrows, but only if you're not wielding it properly.
Helm of Opposite AlignmentNot mind-affecting773.5
RodsAlways weigh 5 lb, even if they're massive or tiny.6483.5
Thrown weaponsRequire no proficiency; any weapon that has ever been thrown requires no proficiency642-433.5
Maneuvers and stances:
Giant Killing StyleLasts for the rest of your turn; that's not how stances work.642-433.5
Leaping Dragon StanceEnhancement bonus to jump checks in feet: may make vertical jumps way better than intended.6433.5
Monsters:
BalorsSword is part of the Balor's treasure, but doesn't exist if the Balor isn't wielding it and the Balor's Death Throes will destroy it anyway.6413.5
BearsHigh chance to fail to climb trees.641PF
GargoylesYou can take a spot check to notice that undead gargoyles are alive.6463.5
TrillochMultiple dysfunctions, mainly involving quickened death knell76-73.5
Werewolf zombiesCan and can't be in hybrid form763.5
Misc:
Acid EffectsDeals true damage, not acid damage.6473.5
Catching on fireDeals true damage, not fire damage.6473.5
Cold DangersDeals true damage, but you can apply your cold resistance anyway6473.5
Dodge bonusesCan't be granted by spells, but there are an inordinate number which do anyway.*6483.5
Falling 9 feetDeals no damage713.P
FamiliarsCan't get skills from high INT, problematic for ex-vermin.
FascinatedNon-sitting creatures are immune.
Injury poisons/diseasesCan and can't be transferred by 0-damage attacks723.5
LanguagesYou can speak more languages than are in the list from which you choose them.644-453.5
Lava and magmaFire resist grants immunity to all damage done by lava/magma, even if it lands on you and does falling damage.713.5
PetrifiedIf you're turned back with bits missing, you're dealt damage. No-one knows how much.713.5
Debatra
2015-08-08, 04:13 PM
NumerousNo definition of "Affected" might mean that some spells, such as illusions, sequester, fly, bane either affect random people for no good reason, or might mean they're useless because they don't affect anyone but the subject. It's not clear which.743.5
Are we really going to include that nonsense discussion in the handbook?
Troacctid
2015-08-08, 04:40 PM
Yeah, I thought we agreed that wasn't a dysfunction.
Kurald Galain
2015-08-08, 05:00 PM
Yeah, I thought we agreed that wasn't a dysfunction.
Indeed. Finding novel ways to misunderstand basic grammar does not a dysfunctional rule make.
Jormengand
2015-08-08, 05:43 PM
Right, except that it's not misunderstanding it. It's using the definition of affect exactly how it's used in the English language (and yes, if you use any of the other definitions, it's still dysfunctional). If you read it exactly as it is written, without making excuses for it, it's dysfunctional. That's the very definition of a RAW dysfunction.
Troacctid
2015-08-08, 06:02 PM
It's using the definition of affect exactly how it's used in the English language
It's not using "affect" the way "it" is used in the English language, it's using "affect" the way "affect" is used. How would your way even make sense?
Kurald Galain
2015-08-08, 06:02 PM
Right, except that it's not misunderstanding it. It's using the definition of affect exactly how it's used in the English language (and yes, if you use any of the other definitions, it's still dysfunctional). If you read it exactly as it is written, without making excuses for it, it's dysfunctional. That's the very definition of a RAW dysfunction.
No, it's really not. If you over-analyze any sentence and assume they're written in Legalese rather than English, pretty much every single rule would become dysfunctional.
Jormengand
2015-08-08, 06:05 PM
How would your way even make sense?
It wouldn't, that's why it's dysfunctional.
EDIT: If you like, I can change it to something neutral like ""Affect" not being defined causes problems". Because it clearly has.
Troacctid
2015-08-08, 06:19 PM
It wouldn't, that's why it's dysfunctional.
EDIT: If you like, I can change it to something neutral like ""Affect" not being defined causes problems". Because it clearly has.
First off, I like a lot of things, but my likes and dislikes aren't especially relevant to the RAW. Second, words and phrases can't have alignments by RAW, only characters can. Third, "affect" is defined, and fourth, it only causes problems if you intentionally misread the rules, which is not RAW. Lastly, while the use of "it" has caused some problems in some cases, those problems are usually related to pronoun ambiguity and have nothing to do with "affect".
Jormengand
2015-08-08, 06:24 PM
Third, "affect" is defined, and fourth, it only causes problems if you intentionally misread the rules, which is not RAW.
No, Target is defined in terms of affect, but affect isn't defined itself. And I'm not intentionally misreading them, I'm just goddamn reading them.
Troacctid
2015-08-08, 06:47 PM
Okay, so you're not intentionally misreading them, you're unintentionally misreading them in an attempt to read them in an intentionally obtuse way that the RAW doesn't support. Either way, it's a misreading, not a dysfunction.
Gadora
2015-08-08, 06:52 PM
Look, this was argued in the thread and determined not a dysfunction. Being stubborn will not change that.
Jormengand
2015-08-08, 06:54 PM
Okay, so you're not intentionally misreading them, you're unintentionally misreading them in an attempt to read them in an intentionally obtuse way that the RAW doesn't support. Either way, it's a misreading, not a dysfunction.
Look, this was argued in the thread and determined not a dysfunction. Being stubborn will not change that.
Okay, will someone provide a valid argument why it's not dysfunctional, then? Because I've been quite clear how it is, and all I've got back are accusations of misreading.
Renen
2015-08-08, 07:29 PM
Jormen, can you please repeat the disfuntion to me and explain why it is so?
I am interested in providing my opinion, but I hope you could just restate your position and reasoning to me so I know whats up.
Jormengand
2015-08-08, 07:34 PM
Jormen, can you please repeat the disfuntion to me and explain why it is so?
I am interested in providing my opinion, but I hope you could just restate your position and reasoning to me so I know whats up.
Sure.
Take a look at, for example, Sequester.
"When cast, this spell not only prevents divination spells from working to detect or locate the creature or object affected by sequester, it also renders the affected creature or object invisible to any form of sight or seeing (as the invisibility spell)... Creatures affected by sequester become comatose and are effectively in a state of suspended animation until the spell wears off or is dispelled. "
Now, what is an affected creature? Nothing actually tells us. That's fine, because if nothing tells us, we use English. There are numerous possible meanings of "Affected" (In love, Put on a show of, etcetera) but the relevant one is something like "Influenced or touched by an external factor." Now, if you are capable of seeing a non-sequestered orc, you might attack it, but if you don't, you ignore it. Clearly, you have been "Influenced by an external factor" in the form of a Sequester spell. That means that you are "A creature or object affected by Sequester". That means that divinations don't work on you and you're invisible and comatose.
Troacctid
2015-08-08, 07:47 PM
Right, and it's not dysfunctional because that's not actually the relevant definition for that context. The relevant definition is "to act on"; the spell is only acting on its subjects, not on anyone tangentially related to its casting.
Jormengand
2015-08-08, 07:58 PM
Right, and it's not dysfunctional because that's not actually the relevant definition for that context. The relevant definition is "to act on"; the spell is only acting on its subjects, not on anyone tangentially related to its casting.
Except that I can't find a dictionary that provides that definition on its own. Google says that affected is what I just said it was and affect is "Have an effect on, make a difference to," the Oxford Dictionary says the exact same, verbatim, for both of them. The one definition that does provide "To act on" clarifies: "To act on; produce an effect or change in." Again, this is consistent with our invisible orc.
Renen
2015-08-08, 08:07 PM
I can somewhat see the point, but I get confused by the following:
Why do you not consider "affected creature" to be the target of the spell (the target the spellcaster chose when casting spell)?
The range of the spell is touch:
Touch
You must touch a creature or object to affect it.
Clearly the touched creature is the one that is considered "affected" and since it is a creature, it is an "affected creature".
Similarly if we go by english, the spell also has a target of "One willing creature or object". Now, we have this in regards to targets in the rules:
You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.
So, if we understand that the spell is used on a target, and that the spellcaster must select one, that means unless you were selected by the spellcaster as the target, you cant be... targeted by the spell. Unless its an AoE or something, in which case the "target" is anything within range of spell as of the time of casting, since the caster selects the whole area with everything in it.
Bonus: Orc has to designate himself as willing in regards to the spell in order to be affected by a spell that only affects willing targets. But this is spell specific, and you can just re-do the example with a different spell.
Thats just how I see it at the moment.
Jormengand
2015-08-08, 08:24 PM
I can somewhat see the point, but I get confused by the following:
Why do you not consider "affected creature" to be the target of the spell (the target the spellcaster chose when casting spell)?
See, I would do, but it never actually says that. If you assume affected creatures are only the targets, things get really odd fast - does that mean that sequester doesn't work properly, because it's not allowed to affect anyone else? Spells like sequester are largely designed to affect people other than the subject (by effectively impairing vision and divinations), so it kinda doesn't work if you equate the two.
Renen
2015-08-08, 08:30 PM
It affects the subject by making them immune to scrying.
Mage armor doesnt effect your enemies because they are now unable to hit you.
Similarly making someone immune to scrying doesnt mean anyone scrything them is somehow affected.
Jormengand
2015-08-08, 08:34 PM
It affects the subject by making them immune to scrying.
Mage armor doesnt effect your enemies because they are now unable to hit you.
Similarly making someone immune to scrying doesnt mean anyone scrything them is somehow affected.
Well, it clearly does. It has an effect on them: it could even be lethal to them if you're alive to hit back. It absolutely affects them, and I don't see how you can say it doesn't.
Troacctid
2015-08-08, 08:37 PM
Because a. it's not acting on them or producing an effect in them, and b. the rules specifically say it can't affect them.
Jormengand
2015-08-08, 08:45 PM
Because a. it's not acting on them or producing an effect in them,
Well, I'd say inability to see an orc and death were both quite notable effects.
and b. the rules specifically say it can't affect them.
Well, then, they can see the orc, and that's also dysfunctional.
EDIT:
I actually have to sleep, so I'm not going to argue any more for now.
Meanwhile, I've taken this up to page 30. Not 31: those haven't yet been fully discussed.
Races:
DhampirCan die during character generation730PF
HalflingsHalfling traits are special qualities and special attacks, so many spells that turn you into one are self-contadictory.
OrcsCan wield torches, porcupines, orcas, sorcerers and each other proficiently711PF
Templates:
Half-XOften applicable to X7293.5
Classes:
Sneak Attack and IUDInteraction assumes both participants are rogues, even though both are found on other classes.
Cloud AnchoriteNonexistent prerequisite.7283.5
Disciple of the WordWord of the Strike Unstoppable might not have a DC.
Troubadour of StarsStacks nonexistent ability, plays for no duration, uses nonexistent component, uses component you don't need, and gives oddly specific DR.793.5
Master of MasksCan wear multiple masks until you can't.7193.5
Ninja SpyGets EWP blowgun, which is simple7143.5
Paladin of SlaughterA section of the code of conduct prohibits paladins of tyranny from associating with good people, not paladins of slaughter.7203.5
Savage WarriorChoose a weapon. That's it.714PF
Skills:
HealWorks even if you have DEX and INT 1: monkeys and example fighters have the same heal bonus.7153.5
Feats:
Delay powerCan set it to go off in 5 rounds. Or you can set it to go off in 5 rounds and you can set it off early.7293.5
Enlarge Spell/PowerInconsistent with short range.
Improved ManyshotSubsumed by prerequisite.730
Instant ReloadCan use Rapid Reload of the wrong type of crossbow as prerequisite.730
Unconditional powerCan manifest powers when confused (but could anyway) or when nauseated, but you can't take the action to do it.7293.5
Spells:
Spell ComponentsBeing used as one isn't fatal.7133.5
Spells with grant SRMore powerful if used on creatures who didn't have any in the first place.7263.5
Antiplant ShellCan't be pushed against creatures that don't exist.7193.5
Arcane SightHas to tell you whether psions are arcane or divine7193.5
Astral ProjectionMakes all silver cords nearly indestructible even if no-one ever casts it, including the one assumed to be in every SCP. The only things that are specified to be able to destroy them are wizards casting Alarm.7193.5
Aura of GloryHas two different ranges which are probably the same but might not be.7143.5
Balor NimbusOnly useful if you can't cast it7143.5
Blade BarrierStanding on it deals no damage.7193.5
BlinkOnly fall while material: changes fall damage but not fall speed. No specified interaction with affects like Archer's Eye.
Calm EmotionsAffects all creatures in medium range, not just the ones it's cast on.7193.5
Calm EmotionsEnds confusion on targets; has no targetsHandbook93.5
Clenched FistBull Rush bonus is calculated wrong.7193.5
Cloak of ChaosSurprisingly ineffective vs inevitables.7193.5
Feather FallNot very useful if a fight opens with a pit trap.7203.5
Freedom of MovementWorded so vaguely that it could mean anything.7283.5
Hide from UndeadIntelligent indead can take a will save to do nothing in particular7233.5
Origin of SpeciesHealing spell, but doesn't heal anyone7263.5
ThunderheadSupposed to try to hit each round, but any passed save ends the effect.7203.5
Wake TrailingWritten as though the spell was personal, which it's not.719
Wall of BonesMedium creatures trapped must move but can also stay put, Large creatures only can break it, but everyone can break it, and Small creatures pass through normally, but Tiny creatures must pass through at half speed.7213.5
Word of ChaosSurprisingly ineffective vs inevitables.7193.5
Powers:
Deja VuSubject can defend self normally, even if unconscious.7293.5
Detect Hostile IntentDetects nearby hostile creatures, so you're not surprised by any hostile creatures.7283.5
Fate of OneCan be cast off your turn to make a save. It's an immediate action, so you could do that anyway.
MetafacultyRequires CASTER level check.7293.5
Second Chance1 round/level or until discharged, but you don't discharge it.7293.5
Equipment:
EagerBonus applies to other weapons7143.5
HelmetsCan only be sundered if wearer doesn't have full plate7233.5
Holy AvengerGood [Evil] and evil [Good] creatures can make this from Dark Craft materials, so it's evil.7123.5
Modular WeaponsNumber of parts is weight-dependent: transmute weapon changes the number of parts.7233.5
PotionsNot adjusted for body mass; Windstriker and a creature 1/6 of the potion's size drink the whole thing as a standard action.793.5
Potions27% of water's density, assuming bottle weighs nothing. Made largely of water.7103.5
Powder of the Black VeilNo matter where you throw it, centres on you.7183.5
Scorpion WhipDeals 1d33 or 1d43 damage7193.5
WhipReach, from fine to medium, is 15 feet, and then afterwards it just doubles reach.7293.5
Combat:
Unarmed StrikeCan be made with weapons if you're not holding anything.7243.5
Monsters:
UndeadDon't turn back if killed, so true resurrection doesn't work properly7133.5
Caryatid ColumnProficient with everything; can break unarmed strikes7123.5
Fang GolemCan launch some number of spikes. No-one knows how many.7213.5
GerviarUnlimited attack range7143.5
ZombiesAt certain HD, don't have CRs7193.5
Misc:
ConfusedAttack nearest creature, no exception for yourself but familiar is treated as you.7133.P
ConfusedDo and don't act normally, do and don't roll on the table, deal 1d8+STR with a pillow.719PF
DazzledDoesn't impair your ability to use skills such as appraise, concentration, survival to follow tracks even though vision is impaired.
ExhaustedResting an hour makes you fatigued, but doesn't remove exhausted.7133.5
FallingNothing actually makes you fall, except a few things like Greater Seek the Sky, Reversed.7263.5
FallingFalling elephants don't deal any damage to the person they land on, unless they're dead. No word on what happens if they die from the fall.7303.5
Falling off your mountAlways deals 1d6 damage.7123.5
IncorporealImmune to "All" nonmagical attacks, except when you're not.7133.5
NauseatedToo sick to speak, but not to move at normal speed, which might be a lot.7293.5
Negative LevelsRemove features from each class, so you might have thousands of levels but lose all features from one negative level.7133.5
Movement in combatTeleporting mermaids and perpetual motion machines716-173.5
Reflex savesDon't require movement7263.5
RidingFine creatures on great wyrms occupy the whole great wyrm's space: whirlwind attack?7303.5
SmellYou can do it in space.7263.5
The Rules CompendiumOrder of precedence conflict with core.717
Variant MulticlassingWitch VM prevents Shamans getting more Shaman hexes.730PF
Weapon Size CategoryMedium greatwords are and aren't medium; fine daggers, fine longswords and diminutive daggers don't exist. Fine longswords deal damage despite nonexistence.7303.5
Renen
2015-08-08, 09:01 PM
Im not gonna bother trying to explain this. There's dysfunctional rules, and then there's wanting the rule to be dysfunctional and saying spells like mage armor affect everyone who tries to attack you (or maybe everyone ever, incase they consider attacking you?)
Like really, some interpretations are just too out there, and are not realistic not even when talking about dysfunctional rules. Otherwise I'd be able to find a dysfunctional rule in every second sentence of everything WotC ever wrote.
Troacctid
2015-08-08, 09:11 PM
Yeah, the "affect" thing relies on there not existing a usage of the word that doesn't result in a dysfunction. But there is a usage of the word that doesn't result in a dysfunction, and it's fairly clear that that's how it's being used in this context. It's not dysfunctional.
Arcane MarkRequires no touch attack so you can cast it on a creature you can't hit.7193.5
Is that a dysfunction? I mean, a lot of spells don't require attack rolls, and they're generally not considered dysfunctional.
Calm EmotionsAffects all creatures in the universe, not just the ones it's cast on.7193.5
This one's incorrect--it's still limited by its area, so it only affects creatures in a 20-foot radius.
Detect Hostile IntentDetects nearby hostile creatures, so you're not surprised by any hostile creatures.7283.5
This one should be under powers, not spells.
Renen
2015-08-08, 09:22 PM
You cant be surprised by creatures that are susceptible to mind-affecting powers.
Meaning after a certain level the power becomes useless as everyone and their grandmother gets mind blank.
@Calm Emotions one:
Regarding spells area:
In each case, you select the spells point of origin and measure its effect from that point.
Jormen, you need some sleep. The rules DO say that spell's effect goes from point of origin until the end of the area it affects. It doesnt magically affect everything in universe just because it says
his spell calms agitated creatures. Its still limited by it's "Area" descriptor.
Troacctid
2015-08-08, 09:24 PM
Still more useful than Sleep. Don't see your point. *shrug*
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