Metamagic trickery.

[Kelb_Panthera]

In a recent discussion the idea of preparing metamagicked spells in the slots that are for higher level spells than your casting ability will actually let you cast came up.

Let's use a wizard with int 15 preparing a maximized cone of cold in an 8th level slot for example.

I'd swear I remember reading that this was legal somewhere but the person I'm discussing it with says that I'm mistaken.

Does anyone else know where the rule I'm talking about is printed? I can't seem to find it.

[Answerer]

I suspect your friend is correct... why on earth would you ever want to do that anyway?

[Kelb_Panthera]

We'll see if I remembered correctly after a while. I don't mind being proven wrong and if -noone- knows what I'm talking about that'll be a pretty strong indication that I am.

As for how it could come up, suppose you had your int drained mid-adventure and had no way to reverse it over the next few days. I know you can prepare lower level spells in the slots but it'd be nice to know if you could pack a little more oomph in with 'em.

[Story]

It seems valid to me as long as you have an 8th level spell slot. The int requirement only depends on the original level of the spell, which isn't affected by metamagic except for Heighten.

[mattie_p]

OK, before I weigh in, some internet research indicates this may come from 3.0. See this old thread on yahoo (http://games.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Infinite_Monkeys/message/20571) if you are interested (or not, no skin off my back).


The Heighten Spell metamagic feat actually changes a
spell’s level, correct? Does this mean you can use the feat to
make your spells bypass wards such as minor globe of
invulnerability?
Yes. The Heighten Spell description specifically mentions
overcoming a minor globe of invulnerability. To do so, one
would have to heighten the spell to 4th level or higher, you’d
need to have a 4th-level or higher spell slot available, and your
ability score that governs your spellcasting would have to be at
least 14. As pointed out before, when you use a higher-level
spell slot to cast a lower-level spell, you normally need an
ability score only high enough to cast the spell at its base
(unmodified by metamagic) level. But Heighten Spell is a
special case because it actually changes the spell’s level.

The portion indicated "as pointed out before" doesn't seem to exist in the 3.0 FAQ (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a) anymore though.

The reasoning followed by Tom Bollis in that thread seems to me to make the most sense.


In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell. Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated otherwise in the feat description.

The operating refers to its effects, such as DC, damage dice, range, duration, etc, as applicable. The prepared and cast refers to other extant rules on preparing/casting spells, as in:


To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level.

[Kelb_Panthera]

OK, before I weigh in, some internet research indicates this may come from 3.0. See this old thread on yahoo (http://games.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Infinite_Monkeys/message/20571) if you are interested (or not, no skin off my back).



The portion indicated "as pointed out before" doesn't seem to exist in the 3.0 FAQ (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a) anymore though.

The reasoning followed by Tom Bollis in that thread seems to me to make the most sense.



The operating refers to its effects, such as DC, damage dice, range, duration, etc, as applicable. The prepared and cast refers to other extant rules on preparing/casting spells, as in:

The quote from the PHB there is the point of contention.

The guy I was discussing with says that the "prepared and cast as a higher level spell" clause means that a spell with metamagic requires an ability of 10 + the level of the spell after metamagic adjustment to prepare and cast.

[mattie_p]

The guy I was discussing with says that the "prepared and cast as a higher level spell" clause means that a spell with metamagic requires an ability of 10 + the level of the spell after metamagic adjustment to prepare and cast.

I believe that to be the case as well. Why? I base it only on the PHB/SRD "prepared and cast" quote.

There may be other sources on the topic, I am interested in seeing what pops up.

Can we agree that heighten (at a minimum) requires the higher ability score?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Heighten unquestionably does make a spell a higher level spell in all ways. Thats its entire function.