TopCheese
2013-01-16, 11:20 PM
So I see tons of hate for essentially every smite that has come up (3.5/PF/Homebrew), I even have things I hate/dislike about this mechanic. I've also noticed that a lot of arguments tend to focus mainly around the smite mechanic.
So what I would like to do is get help from the playground to make a few versions of smite that could actually work in a 3.5/PF game.
Q: So playground, what does smite evil really need? Can it ever be created in a way that will be not only useful but iconic?
A:
More smite attempts
Don't make it a "rage"
A way to not suck versus those damn dirty neutral spiders
Better accuracy/damage
Make smite more than just a damage dealer
Make it work with more than just melee weapons
Anyone want to help?
Edit: I like a lot of what people are saying. I want to bring some stuff together and and make a "core" smite ability and give an optional "Smite Exploits" that be given at 3rd level and also gain them every two levels after that (5,7,9, etc).
Paladin's Alignment: LG, CG, LE, and CE. There is no such thing as a Neutral Paladin, you may be a class that emulates the Paladin but you are no Paladin.
Smite: You gain up to 10 smites/encounter which should be enough. Smite works with any weapon you are holding.
As you get away from the Paladin’s alignment the Paladin’s smite becomes more accurate and powerful.
L/N/C Axis: For every step away from the Paladin’s alignment an enemy is the Paladin’s smite becomes more accurate. The gods of Law hate the gods of Chaos (chaotic gods hate the lawful gods just the same) then they do the gods of Neutrality.
• If the Paladin is attempting to smite a creature of the same ethical alignment (L/C) the Paladin gains a bonus on the attack roll equal to half the number of levels the Paladin has gained.
• If the Paladin is attempting to smite a creature of neutral alignment on the ethical axis then the Paladin gains a bonus on the attack roll equal to 3/4 of the number of levels the Paladin has gained.
• If the Paladin attempts to smite a creature of the opposite alignment on the ethical axis then the Paladin gains a bonus on the attack roll equal to the Paladin levels obtained.
G/N/E Axis: For every step away from the Paladin’s alignment an enemy on the morality axis the Paladin’s smite becomes more powerful. The gods of Good hate the gods of Evil (as do Evil toward Good) more than they do the gods of Neutrality.
• If the Paladin hits with a smite on a creature of the same moral alignment (G/E) the Paladin gains a bonus on the damage roll equal to the Paladin’s Cha Mod (minimum +1).
• If the Paladin hits with a smite on a creature of the neutral alignment (N) the Paladin gains a bonus on the damage roll equal to 5 + Paladin’s Cha Mod (minimum +1).
• If the Paladin hits with a smite on a creature of the opposite moral alignment (G/E) the Paladin gains a bonus on the damage roll equal to 10 + Paladin’s Cha Mod (minimum +1 Cha Mod).
Smite may be used 1/encounter at first level, 2/encounter at second level, and an additional smite/encounter every two levels after second level (1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, etc.)
LG/CG Paladins: If you are wielding a Holy Weapon then you gain +5 Smites/Encounter. If you are wielding a Holy Avenger then you gain +10 Smites/Encounter.
LE/CE Paladins: If you are wielding a Unholy Weapon then you gain +5 Smites/Encounter. If you are wielding a Unholy Avenger (is there an actual name for this?) then you gain +10 Smites/Encounter.
Smite Exploit:
Every time you gain an additional smite from the Paladin class you learn an additional exploit to use for divine judgement. Choose one of the the following exploits at level 1,2,4,6, etc.
Maneuver Smite
Once every 5 rounds when you smite you may forgo your normal smite attack. You instead gain your normal Smite attack bonus on any combat maneuver you perform. You do not provoke AoO and you are counted as a creature of 1 size larger if it is advantageous. If the maneuver (such as disarm) does damage you may add 1/2 your smite damage to the target as additional damage (the target would be the weapon or item carried). At Paladin Level 10 and Paladin Level 20 your are treated as an additional size category larger when using Maneuver Smite.
Note: This makes a dungeoncrasher paladin really really fun to play :p
Mystical Smite
Once every 5 rounds when you use smite you may forgo your normal smite attack. In its place you may channel any divine spell that you obtained from your god through your weapon. Any time the weapon you channel the spell through strikes a creature, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the Paladin desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally).
At Paladin level 10, 15, and 20 you gain any 2 spells of each level you are able to cast. These spells are added to the Paladin spell list as divine spells. The spells added may originally be from any list.
This spell never harms you. This spell doesn't count against your daily spells/day but you can't combine this with any other sort of smite unless that smite says so.
Note: This is like having a spell storing weapon.. I need to edit it a bit but you get the idea.... Now that I have my laptop I can try to edit this better.
Smite Barrier/Smite Magical Barrier
Once every 5 rounds a Paladin may give up a use of Smite to destroy a Mundane or Magical Barrier.
To destroy a mundane barrier the Paladin makes a weapon attack against a non-magical door, wall, or anything else (non-living object) that is blocking the way of the Paladin (or just unlucky enough to tick off said Paladin... lol). If the Paladin hits the "barrier" then treat the attack as a critical at X4 multiplier that bypasses DR and Hardness.
To destroy a magical barrier such as "mage armor" or "wall of force" (5 ft section of wall of force) the Paladin gives up one use of Smite and makes a special attack. Make an attack with a weapon versus 10 + caster level, if the attack hits then the magical barrier is destroyed.
Both of these are are used as an attack action and may be used as part of a Full Attack.
Note: Awesomesauce even if a bit strong. I'll try to tone it down or break it up a bit.
Dispelling Smite (free action)
Think Spell Sunder but different effects. Caster has blink? Not anymore!
Once every 3 rounds a Paladin may replace the normal bonuses of their Smite to strike a creature or object with a magical effect upon it. As part of your normal weapon attack you make a dispelling check. The dispelling check is 1d20 + Cha Mod vs. 10 + Spell Level.
Smite Lies
Bonus to diplomacy when telling the truth. Roll twice and take better result.
Smite Truth
Bonus to bluff when lying. Roll twice and take better result.
Smite Creature
Gain a bonus to smite versus certain creatures. May change this occasionally when you pray before a mission or something like that.... Perhaps 1/month *shrug*
When attacking a creature of the chosen type you may forgo your normal bonus attack roll from smite in order to roll 2d20 and take the better result on all attack rolls.
So what I would like to do is get help from the playground to make a few versions of smite that could actually work in a 3.5/PF game.
Q: So playground, what does smite evil really need? Can it ever be created in a way that will be not only useful but iconic?
A:
More smite attempts
Don't make it a "rage"
A way to not suck versus those damn dirty neutral spiders
Better accuracy/damage
Make smite more than just a damage dealer
Make it work with more than just melee weapons
Anyone want to help?
Edit: I like a lot of what people are saying. I want to bring some stuff together and and make a "core" smite ability and give an optional "Smite Exploits" that be given at 3rd level and also gain them every two levels after that (5,7,9, etc).
Paladin's Alignment: LG, CG, LE, and CE. There is no such thing as a Neutral Paladin, you may be a class that emulates the Paladin but you are no Paladin.
Smite: You gain up to 10 smites/encounter which should be enough. Smite works with any weapon you are holding.
As you get away from the Paladin’s alignment the Paladin’s smite becomes more accurate and powerful.
L/N/C Axis: For every step away from the Paladin’s alignment an enemy is the Paladin’s smite becomes more accurate. The gods of Law hate the gods of Chaos (chaotic gods hate the lawful gods just the same) then they do the gods of Neutrality.
• If the Paladin is attempting to smite a creature of the same ethical alignment (L/C) the Paladin gains a bonus on the attack roll equal to half the number of levels the Paladin has gained.
• If the Paladin is attempting to smite a creature of neutral alignment on the ethical axis then the Paladin gains a bonus on the attack roll equal to 3/4 of the number of levels the Paladin has gained.
• If the Paladin attempts to smite a creature of the opposite alignment on the ethical axis then the Paladin gains a bonus on the attack roll equal to the Paladin levels obtained.
G/N/E Axis: For every step away from the Paladin’s alignment an enemy on the morality axis the Paladin’s smite becomes more powerful. The gods of Good hate the gods of Evil (as do Evil toward Good) more than they do the gods of Neutrality.
• If the Paladin hits with a smite on a creature of the same moral alignment (G/E) the Paladin gains a bonus on the damage roll equal to the Paladin’s Cha Mod (minimum +1).
• If the Paladin hits with a smite on a creature of the neutral alignment (N) the Paladin gains a bonus on the damage roll equal to 5 + Paladin’s Cha Mod (minimum +1).
• If the Paladin hits with a smite on a creature of the opposite moral alignment (G/E) the Paladin gains a bonus on the damage roll equal to 10 + Paladin’s Cha Mod (minimum +1 Cha Mod).
Smite may be used 1/encounter at first level, 2/encounter at second level, and an additional smite/encounter every two levels after second level (1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, etc.)
LG/CG Paladins: If you are wielding a Holy Weapon then you gain +5 Smites/Encounter. If you are wielding a Holy Avenger then you gain +10 Smites/Encounter.
LE/CE Paladins: If you are wielding a Unholy Weapon then you gain +5 Smites/Encounter. If you are wielding a Unholy Avenger (is there an actual name for this?) then you gain +10 Smites/Encounter.
Smite Exploit:
Every time you gain an additional smite from the Paladin class you learn an additional exploit to use for divine judgement. Choose one of the the following exploits at level 1,2,4,6, etc.
Maneuver Smite
Once every 5 rounds when you smite you may forgo your normal smite attack. You instead gain your normal Smite attack bonus on any combat maneuver you perform. You do not provoke AoO and you are counted as a creature of 1 size larger if it is advantageous. If the maneuver (such as disarm) does damage you may add 1/2 your smite damage to the target as additional damage (the target would be the weapon or item carried). At Paladin Level 10 and Paladin Level 20 your are treated as an additional size category larger when using Maneuver Smite.
Note: This makes a dungeoncrasher paladin really really fun to play :p
Mystical Smite
Once every 5 rounds when you use smite you may forgo your normal smite attack. In its place you may channel any divine spell that you obtained from your god through your weapon. Any time the weapon you channel the spell through strikes a creature, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the Paladin desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally).
At Paladin level 10, 15, and 20 you gain any 2 spells of each level you are able to cast. These spells are added to the Paladin spell list as divine spells. The spells added may originally be from any list.
This spell never harms you. This spell doesn't count against your daily spells/day but you can't combine this with any other sort of smite unless that smite says so.
Note: This is like having a spell storing weapon.. I need to edit it a bit but you get the idea.... Now that I have my laptop I can try to edit this better.
Smite Barrier/Smite Magical Barrier
Once every 5 rounds a Paladin may give up a use of Smite to destroy a Mundane or Magical Barrier.
To destroy a mundane barrier the Paladin makes a weapon attack against a non-magical door, wall, or anything else (non-living object) that is blocking the way of the Paladin (or just unlucky enough to tick off said Paladin... lol). If the Paladin hits the "barrier" then treat the attack as a critical at X4 multiplier that bypasses DR and Hardness.
To destroy a magical barrier such as "mage armor" or "wall of force" (5 ft section of wall of force) the Paladin gives up one use of Smite and makes a special attack. Make an attack with a weapon versus 10 + caster level, if the attack hits then the magical barrier is destroyed.
Both of these are are used as an attack action and may be used as part of a Full Attack.
Note: Awesomesauce even if a bit strong. I'll try to tone it down or break it up a bit.
Dispelling Smite (free action)
Think Spell Sunder but different effects. Caster has blink? Not anymore!
Once every 3 rounds a Paladin may replace the normal bonuses of their Smite to strike a creature or object with a magical effect upon it. As part of your normal weapon attack you make a dispelling check. The dispelling check is 1d20 + Cha Mod vs. 10 + Spell Level.
Smite Lies
Bonus to diplomacy when telling the truth. Roll twice and take better result.
Smite Truth
Bonus to bluff when lying. Roll twice and take better result.
Smite Creature
Gain a bonus to smite versus certain creatures. May change this occasionally when you pray before a mission or something like that.... Perhaps 1/month *shrug*
When attacking a creature of the chosen type you may forgo your normal bonus attack roll from smite in order to roll 2d20 and take the better result on all attack rolls.