Optimizing Spellcraft

[Larkas]

So, I'm making a gish character that uses Incantatrix, but I'm finding it quite hard to reach the needed +62 to persist 9th level spells with no error. I have an open feat slot, which I've used for Mage's Spectacles, and can try to adapt and open another one. So far I've taken the following:

14 Int - +2
Ranks - +23
Synergy - +2
Shape Soulmeld (Mage's Spectacles) - +4

Which brings us to a grand total of +31. Now, with a +6 Int (+3) item and a +12 custom Spellcraft item, and a masterwork tool (+2), I can achieve a total of +48, just 14 points short of the intended +62 and enough to persist 4th level spells. How can I shore that up without an item familiar? And how, exactly, does an item familiar work?

[Thespianus]

Find a Cleric friend who casts Guidance of the Avatar on you?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a

+20 competence bonus.

[Fouredged Sword]

Looking at item creation a +30 item is 90,000. Expensive, but it would be enough to get you there.

[Vaz]

A 2nd Level Wand of Guidance of the Avatar isn't too bad.

[Hirax]

You will of course want to optimize your int. It gets you more spells in addition to more spellcraft.

18 base int.

+2 racial bonus: (gray elf, or something).

+4 deformity bonus: infect yourself with warp touch (BoVD), which has an immediate onset. If the results don't please you, use an amulet of second chances (MIC) and try again tomorrow.

+1 untyped bonus: locate and get pooped out by Worm of Minauros (FC2 magical location).

+5 untyped bonus: level ups.

+5 inherent bonus: wish or wish-like item.

+4 untyped bonus: persisted greater visage of the deity half-fiend form (SpC, obtained from competition domain).

+8 enhancement bonus: persisted necrotic empowerment (LM).

+2 alchemical bonus: be a mushroom powder addict (BoVD), as you can mitigate all the negative effects.

+3 untyped bonus: venerable age.

Good for a 24/7 int of 52 (int mod of +21). Assumed to be level 20 and ECL 0 without classes, of course. By my reckoning that's 6 bonus 1st level spells, 5 bonus 2nd-5th level spells, and 4 bonus 6th-9th level spells.

For spellcraft:

The share talents spell (PHB2) is good for +2, just use it with your familiar. Obtain a tome of ancient lore (MIC) and peruse it it at the start of the day for +5. Add in an int mod of 21, 23 ranks, and +2 synergy, and you can take 10 for a +63.

[SornET]

Invest skill ranks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm#investSkillRanks) in your Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm)

[Larkas]

Thanks a lot for all the help, guys!


Find a Cleric friend who casts Guidance of the Avatar on you?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a

+20 competence bonus.

Hmmmm, that works alright, but I'd prefer something I could do myself. :smallfrown:


Looking at item creation a +30 item is 90,000. Expensive, but it would be enough to get you there.

It's alright, though, this character is based on Wild Shape Ranger, so equipment is not much of a priority for it. I've been trying to find rules for pricing these things, do you happen to know where they are?


A 2nd Level Wand of Guidance of the Avatar isn't too bad.

Hmmmm, indeed. Sad thing is: I don't have the ranks available to really invest into UMD, even though it is a class skill for this character. :smallfrown: But bear with me, let me see if it can be done:

9 ranks + 5 from Cha + 4 from Mage's Spectacles + 2 from synergy = 20.

Huh. Would you look at that. Great idea, Vaz!


You will of course want to optimize your int. It gets you more spells in addition to more spellcraft.

18 base int.

+2 racial bonus: (gray elf, or something).

+4 deformity bonus: infect yourself with warp touch (BoVD), which has an immediate onset. If the results don't please you, use an amulet of second chances (MIC) and try again tomorrow.

+1 untyped bonus: locate and get pooped out by Worm of Minauros (FC2 magical location).

+5 untyped bonus: level ups.

+5 inherent bonus: wish or wish-like item.

+4 untyped bonus: persisted greater visage of the deity half-fiend form (SpC, obtained from competition domain).

+8 enhancement bonus: persisted necrotic empowerment (LM).

+2 alchemical bonus: be a mushroom powder addict (BoVD), as you can mitigate all the negative effects.

+3 untyped bonus: venerable age.

Good for a 24/7 int of 52 (int mod of +21). Assumed to be level 20 and ECL 0 without classes, of course. By my reckoning that's 6 bonus 1st level spells, 5 bonus 2nd-5th level spells, and 4 bonus 6th-9th level spells.

For spellcraft:

The share talents spell (PHB2) is good for +2, just use it with your familiar. Obtain a tome of ancient lore (MIC) and peruse it it at the start of the day for +5. Add in an int mod of 21, 23 ranks, and +2 synergy, and you can take 10 for a +63.

Oh, my, I should've been more specific. This character's spellcasting is based on Sublime Chord, so my priority is Cha, not Int. Hence, I shouldn't be spending so much energy into Int, as it won't help me all that much. The advice specific for Spellcraft, however, is very useful, as is you pointing me out that I can take 10 on the skill. I don't know where did I get from that you couldn't do so!


Invest skill ranks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm#investSkillRanks) in your Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm)

Yeah, I've been trying to figure that out. How exactly does that work? You invest three ranks into the item and get one +1 back, is that it?

----

So let's see what we have here:

14 Int - +2
Ranks - +23
Synergy - +2
Shape Soulmeld (Mage's Spectacles) - +4
+6 Int item - +3
Masterwork Tool - +2
Guidance of the Avatar - +20

I now know that I want to reach +53, to take 10 and reach a 63 DC. And I've got a total of... +56! Hooray! We've got a winner! But I'd still like to learn where I can find pricing for custom magical skill items.

[Hirax]

If you're charisma based, you might enjoy an admiral's bicorne from Stormwrack.

[Larkas]

If you're charisma based, you might enjoy an admiral's bicorne from Stormwrack.

Wow, I had never seen that item before. Good catch! :smalleek:

[Daftendirekt]

Find a Cleric friend who casts Guidance of the Avatar on you?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a

+20 competence bonus.

Any DM who allows that spell is an idiot. One of the most unbalanced things in 3.5, and that's saying a lot.

[Larkas]

Any DM who allows that spell is an idiot. One of the most unbalanced things in 3.5, and that's saying a lot.

Dunno. Less unbalancing than a +30 Spellcraft item, I think. The spell could be of a higher level, however.

[Vaz]

Any DM who allows that spell is an idiot. One of the most unbalanced things in 3.5, and that's saying a lot.

No. On it's own; it's about as balanced as can be. For most things, at a level where you can only cast 2nd Level spells, the threatening challenges like huge jumps, dangerous climbs, balancing acts etc, all of these are by-passed by Fly.

Spellcraft Check - http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spellcraft.htm

Against that, it's Balanced.

Even on Epic; http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#spellcraft

It has such little use that it's not exactly "Broken".

Throw in a reasonably obscure (outside of minmaxing) setting specific class with an ability keyed off a skill from which you need no skill-point investment required to access the class in the first place, and you can understand why the monkeys in WotC didn't consider "ah, but someone will take a +20 spell to activate a Persistent Spell MM Incantatrix abuse".

[dspeyer]

Another fun thing is the bard spell improvisation. It gives four luck bonuses of half your caster level to just about anything.

As for GotA, incantrix isn't the only one who really enjoys it. It's great for minor-creating black lotus extract.

[Story]

There's also Divine Insight, which even stacks with Guidance of the Avatar. Unfortunately, it's CL dependent, so a wand only gives +8.

[Siosilvar]

Any DM who allows that spell is an idiot. One of the most unbalanced things in 3.5, and that's saying a lot.

I take it you don't much care for True Strike, either.

[Larkas]

Another fun thing is the bard spell improvisation. It gives four luck bonuses of half your caster level to just about anything.

Improvisation is a nice one too, specially because the character is a Sublime Chord! Unfortunately, the bonus is too small for what I need. On the other hand, if Guidance of the Avatar is not available, Improvisation can cover for it quite nicely, and even works for 4 persists a casting, and not only one! You'd only need an item of +5 Spellcraft, since Improvistation would be cast at CL 24 thanks to Sublime Chord!


There's also Divine Insight, which even stacks with Guidance of the Avatar. Unfortunately, it's CL dependent, so a wand only gives +8.

Ah, it also doesn't stack with Mage's Spectacles :smallfrown: It is nice to keep it in mind, anyways, +8 > +4 :smallbiggrin:

[Douglas]

If changing race is an option, be a Spellscale from Races of the Dragon. Use the meditation of Io (page 25) to get half your character level to spellcraft as a racial bonus.

[Larkas]

If changing race is an option, be a Spellscale from Races of the Dragon. Use the meditation of Io (page 25) to get half your character level to spellcraft as a racial bonus.

Unfortunately, that's not an option, race need to be human in order to have extra skill points. :smallfrown: