Fighter Barb Rogue Suggestions

[drax75]

Hello New guy and first time post.

I have lurked on this forum for a bit, but now i need some input.

I am building a front line fighter who will be using a great spear with Monkey grip and a heavy steel shield. I will be using the shield feats to get up to shield Ward.

I was looking at ways to increase his survive-ability. I was thinking of Fighter as the base with 2 Levels of Rogue (for evasion), and 2 Levels of Barbarian (for uncanny dodge, fast movement and for Rage)

But i cant decide if it would be better to get 4 Levels of rogue to get Uncanny dodge or keep the splash of barbarian for rage and fast movement.

So far i have first 2 Levels as Rogue and then the Next 2 As Fighter.

I have a Mithril Breast Plate so i qualify as light armor for Evasion.

What are your Thoughts? 2 Levels of Barbarian, or 4 Levels of Rogue????

The game will end around 14th Level, if that matters. This is according to the DM's own words.

Thanks a lot for the input! :smallsmile:

[limejuicepowder]

I would definitely stay away from rogue entirely, especially if the only reason you're doing it is for evasion. Evasion isn't an ability that generally sees a lot of use, and you can get it from a fairly cheap item. Rogue levels will put a serious crimp in your tanking style with their d6 hp and almost no synergy besides.

Fighter levels are good (but usually not more than 2), and barbs are the toughest around, so stick with that.

Are you dead-set on the weapon choice? Cause I would recommend getting a reach tripping weapon, like a guisarme. If possible take the wolf totem ACF (not sure where it's from...one of the completes I think) for the barb to get free improved trip. With this route, you may not even need the fighter levels - pure barb make good trippers. Ramp up str and con and go to town.

Alternatively, keep the fighter levels, switch to a buckler, and take improved buckler defense. Now you have an enchantable defense item and can wield your weapon 2-handed. Fighter 2/barb X would be the way to go.

In either build, either get the party spell caster to cast enlarge on you, or buy potions of enlarge.

If you want to get fancy, switch the fighter levels for levels in psychic warrior. They have the same bonus feats but now you get enlarge as a class feature via powers. If you don't like the psychic fluff, refluff the enlarging to be rage-related, Hulk-style.

[BowStreetRunner]

I would agree that evasion isn't worth a dip into rogue for a fighter. If you really feel you need it save up your gold and get a ring (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#evasion). As for Uncanny Dodge, either Barbarian 2 or Warblade 2 would be a good choice for your fighter.

[drax75]

Thanks so much for the feedback,

I am pretty set on the weapons i want to use. I think it will add a nice look and feel to the character. I did not consider Psychic Warrior, maybe i should.

I liked rogue for the sneak attack as well. We will have 2 Ninja's, 1 Psion/Wizard, and 1 Dreagaloth Cleric.

I figured the Sneak attack would be useful because with 2 Swarm fighting Ninja's the target should always be flanked.

Though if i skip the rogue and do Barb/Psychic Warrior that could allow me to Enlarge and avoid needing Monkey Grip on the great spear. Wield it 1 Handed with my Shield. Then this allows me to pick up Uncanny dodge.

Is a spiked chain a 1 handed weapon or 2? I was planning to go down the shield bashing feat line with Improved Shield Bash, Shield Specialization, and Shield Ward, with Agile shield Fighter, etc. Guisarme could be a option but i would lose damage and maybe the x3 crit modifier?

thoughts?

[Urpriest]

Monkey Grip doesn't let you hold a two-handed weapon in one hand anymore. It was changed in the transition from 3.0 to 3.5.

[drax75]

I see well thats good to know now, I sent a TxT to my DM to see if he will allow it anyways.

Based on his response will Impact my Class choices. I may end up just going Spiked Chain Trip Master or i may go Psychic Warrior. Thought with Psychic Warrior i hate to give up the +1 Base Attack Bonus but it may be worth it with the Chain Master.

Psychic Warrior Chain Master? or Fighter/Barb Chain Master???

[Gavinfoxx]

Don't use Monkey Grip. Use Strongarm Bracers, MIC. He can maybe even houserule that it will allow the 2h to 1h thing...?

[SowZ]

I see well thats good to know now, I sent a TxT to my DM to see if he will allow it anyways.

Based on his response will Impact my Class choices. I may end up just going Spiked Chain Trip Master or i may go Psychic Warrior. Thought with Psychic Warrior i hate to give up the +1 Base Attack Bonus but it may be worth it with the Chain Master.

Psychic Warrior Chain Master? or Fighter/Barb Chain Master???

Problem with dipping fighter is that you won't get Mighty Rage, which is nice. Anyway, if you do go fighter, I'd consider the dragon magazine Kensai variant fighter. As a Barb, you won't be wearing heavy armor. Basically, as a Kensai, you swap around some of your trained skills and give up heavy armor proficiency and your first level feat. In exchange, you get an exotic weapon proficiency and a +1 to hit and damage with that weapon. Not usually very good, but if you are going Spiked Chain Figher/Barb anyway, may as well.

[drax75]

Id love to use Dragon Mags..... but the DM has already Out lawed pretty much anything not in a Book (means No Mags no Homebrew) Though he is flexible.

The rest of our group is a very shy crowd so he let me take the Feat "Might Makes right" and allow'd me to tweak it to let me STR mod replace my charisma mod for Bluff and Intimidate checks. He also allow'd me to remove the pre-req of Leadership.

[mattie_p]

What is the starting level? And what are the allowed sources?

If you are allowed Races of Stone, you could be a goliath, which grants you several very nice substitution levels, and powerful build, and some nice stat boosts for a melee frontman, for +1 LA. Barbarian 1 grants you mountain rage, increasing your size to large for the duration of rage. Rogue 2 sub level grants you mettle of mountains, basically evasion for fort saves. Very nice abilities, and both are hard to get. (You can get evasion from a ring for 25,000 gp, can't get mettle at all from an item).

Combine with psywar expansion (do this before you rage, can't use powers in a rage), and you can be size huge (may require DM interpretation, it says increase to "Large" and then next sentence says increase size by one step) with commensurate reach. Take wolf totem barbarian from UA for level 2, and now you get improved trip for free.

[drax75]

Level is 4

Sources anything in a Hard Bound Book (no mags or internet stuff)

Stats are:

18
16
16
15
15
13

Its a power game just based on stats as you can see.

So assuming my choice of spear and shield guy is out law'd which is likely i would bet. Lets look at making a Spiked Chain Tank.

I have to be a Damage sponge for my team so Hit points are important. If you scroll up you can see our current party make up.

I was looking at Spiked Chain Crusader with 2 Levels of Barb. Or 2 Levels of Barb and Maybe Psychic Warrior for Enlarge.

[gorfnab]

I was looking at Spiked Chain Crusader with 2 Levels of Barb. Or 2 Levels of Barb and Maybe Psychic Warrior for Enlarge.
Here you go:

Human Barbarian (Wolf Totem ACF - UA, Spirit Totem: Lion ACF - CC) 2/ Fighter 2/ Crusader 16
1.Combat Reflexes
[1] EWP: Spiked Chain
[2] Improved Trip
3. Stand Still
[3] Power Attack
[4] Mage Slayer
6. Pierce Magical Protection
9. Deft Opportunist
12. Robilar's Gambit
15. Defensive Sweep
18. Overwhelming Assault
(You could drop Pierce Magical Protection and take Blindfight at 6 and follow the feats as shown in the build below)

Human Barbarian (Wolf Totem ACF - UA, Spirit Totem: Lion ACF - CC) 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/ Crusader 16
1.Combat Reflexes
[1] EWP: Spiked Chain
[2] Improved Trip
3. Stand Still
[3] Power Attack
[4] Mage Slayer
6. Blindfight
9. Pierce Magical Concealment
12. Deft Opportunist
15. Robilar's Gambit
18. Defensive Sweep

[SowZ]

Id love to use Dragon Mags..... but the DM has already Out lawed pretty much anything not in a Book (means No Mags no Homebrew) Though he is flexible.

The rest of our group is a very shy crowd so he let me take the Feat "Might Makes right" and allow'd me to tweak it to let me STR mod replace my charisma mod for Bluff and Intimidate checks. He also allow'd me to remove the pre-req of Leadership.

The Drag Mag Compendium is a WOTC approved book, technically.

[Gavinfoxx]

The book is a hardback, WotC book called 'Dragon Compendium Volume 1".

[drax75]

OK so Update Dm will allow me to Monkey Grip a Great Spear in 1 Hand thats awesome for only a neg 2 penalty.

SO back to my original Thematic's,

I was thinking a roguish fighter. If anyone has read anything from Joe Ambercrombie i am sort of going for the Caul Shivers kind of character but with a spear and shield instead of a Axe.

http://joeabercrombie.wikia.com/wiki/Caul_Shivers

He is a Northman (very tall very strong) that fights with a shield and Axe.

I was thinking 4 levels of Rogue and 10 levels of fighter, only 14 levels because the DM expects the game to be over by then.

I need the levels of rogue for the skills because while being this monstrosity and the party tank, i also have to be our face.... So i need bluff, and Diplomacy. We have a stealthy party as well so hide and move silent are very useful.

My question is, Is the great spear considered a 2h weapon because its like a spear, or is it considered a 2h weapon because its like a great sword? In other words if i could get the DM to agree that spears can be wielded one handed, do you think i could make the argument that merely having "Exotic Weapon Prof 'Greatspear'" would be enough?