[PF] Some advice for a new GM? (running Serpent's Skull)

[Wonton]

Just ran my first session of this, it was great. Even though it was my first time GM-ing, everyone really seemed to enjoy the session.

Anyway, in the planning stages for the 2nd session, I hit a bit of a snag:

For those who don't know Serpent's Skull, there are 5 NPCs on the island with the PCs. They start at level 2, but initially they're all Unfriendly so they don't follow the PCs on their adventures.

What should I do if the PCs actually make all the NPCs Friendly or Helpful? If they go a certain way in the next session, it seems pretty likely they could do this. Since it's known that the only hope of rescue is to get to the lighthouse, there's no reason then for these 5 NPCs to not group with the 3 PCs and follow (or lead) them around the island. But not only would this party of 8 make combat slow as hell, the 5 level 2 NPCs would easily outshine the 3 level 1 PCs, which means I'd basically be playing against myself.

I had an idea that I would send Sasha, Ishirou, Gelik, and Aerys to the southeast of the island since they want to check both corners of the island for the lighthouse. This effectively splits them away from the party and also allows them to "scout" the Blood Temple to make sure the PCs don't just leave the island once they reach the actual lighthouse in the southwest. The only issue (and I know at least one of my players will bring this up) with that is that it just makes more sense to stick together as 8 - they could check both corners of the island as a group and it'd be safer.

The only reason I can think of for splitting would be "it's easier to find or track a big group" (a rather weak reason) or some sort of time pressure (of which there isn't any). Ideas?

[Kol Korran]

Hi there. I don't know of the adventure you speak of, but ill try to help. However, some things that might help whomever reads this:

1) Who are the PCs (classes, BRIEF personality descriptions.
2) what personalities do the players have- what will attract them? what will turn them off?
3) what's on the island?
4) very broadly- what resources do they have?

- from the limited info so far, I think you might try and cause some sort of schism between the groups. one of the 2nd levels don't trust the PCs, or is afraid of somewhere they are going to, or wants to provehim/ her self as the strong one, and picks on the PCs, and so on. they convince the rest of the 2nd levels to stay with them, and split. the schism shouldn't be dire, something that might be resolved later, but one that might offer roleplay opportunities, and a simple solution for now.

- Night might be coming soon, they need a safe place, and FAST. better split up to cover more ground.

- some of the NPCs have heard a rumor of this island, that a terrible monster hunts people of <insert PC race here>. the NPCs won't be near that PC, in case the horrible monster comes! (you can then play scary games with that PC's player- "only when the monster is sated can people leave the isle...")

i may have more if you can answer the questions above. you need to build this on the possible mechanics and situation of the group.

good luck, and welcome to the world of DMing! :smallbiggrin:

[Exirtadorri]

The thing to remember about PF modules or Adventure paths is that the characters they interact with come back to be seen again about 99% of the time.

In the back of the book there is a section that should show what the npc's do when you make them friendly. IIRC one of them willgive you a perm +2 to like two skills. Some teach you other things. I also am a fan of letting an npc teach what I call "limited feats".

Lets say that the sheriff in a town needs help. He is a warrior 4. The party helps him out and he gives what he can as far as money goes, but the wizard/sorc is really left out of the reward due to the nature of what is needed by casters. I would have him teach them like "Studded leather armor proficiency" it wont qualify for light armor training and it doesn't reduce the arcance spell failure, but it does let them do it without being game breaking. (Mage armor far surpasses and doesn't stack with real armor so it's flavorful and it keeps my pcs from getting like a 30 AC at level one)

The same thing could be really kool about an exotic fighter or warrior from another land. He could teach kukri or some other crazy stuff.

Also if the NPCs are friendly, they can offer healing and their skills and whatnot to the party :)

[Corlindale]

I also ran into this problem when running the exact same module. My players didn't really see the logic of travelling alone when the NPCs were helpful, and were also against the idea of establishing a permanent camp (as the adventure seems to except).

It was really helpful when I told them out-of-game that they would get less XP for bringing everyone along for every encounter, though:smallsmile: - but in-game it was a little harder to find plausible solutions, other than "they need to do stuff elsewhere".

[Wonton]

Hi there. I don't know of the adventure you speak of, but ill try to help. However, some things that might help whomever reads this:

1) Who are the PCs (classes, BRIEF personality descriptions.
2) what personalities do the players have- what will attract them? what will turn them off?
3) what's on the island?
4) very broadly- what resources do they have?

Sorry, for some reason I thought more people knew this AP, but here's a quick rundown.

The PCs shipwreck on this dangerous (cannibals, ghosts, undead, wild monsters, ancient ruins, etc) island with 5 other NPCs. The NPCs are:

Gelik (Bard 2)
Aerys (Fighter 2)
Jask (Cleric 2)
Sasha (Ranger 2)
Ishirou (Rogue 2)

All of them are intentionally de-optimized (Fighter uses unarmed strike, Rogue has more Str than Dex and fights with Combat Expertise, Bard took Identify for 1 of his spells, etc) but they still have the potential to have as much or more impact than a small group of 3-4 1st level PCs.

Near the beginning of the adventure, they learn that there's a partially finished lighthouse in the south of the island - if they can light a signal on it, there's a decent chance a passing ship can notice it and come rescue them. Due to various other circumstances, this is pretty much the only possible way to get off the island - which means staying behind at the camp is basically just delaying for no reason since no escape is possible off the north shore.

As Exirtadorri syas, there's a chart on all the NPCs' attitudes - they all start Unfriendly or Indifferent so they don't follow the PCs around at first. So, as you said, this is what I initially used to split them up - the NPCs simply didn't trust them enough to go south into the jungle on a crazy mission when staying at the camp was so much safer. They did manage to get the Cleric to Friendly though, which worked out nicely because they needed a healer. He followed them south while the other 4 stayed behind at the camp.

So here's the dilemma I'm facing - depending on how the next session goes, there's a decent chance all the NPCs will become Friendly or Helpful (if the PCs take the hook, they're going to backtrack 10+ miles and return to the camp to basically save Sasha and Gelik's life). While they were Unfriendly/Indifferent, I could get away with the NPCs saying "We don't trust you enough to follow you, and the jungle is far more dangerous than just staying on this beach." Once they trust the PCs though, there's no good reason to not group up as a party of 8 and just go kill everything together. This would quickly become stupidly boring since something like 7/10 turns in combat would be done by me, and the NPCs' better attacks (they're unoptimized but they still all have MW weapons) and higher health would make them outshine the PCs.

The only thing I can think of to make them split up would be to say "A party of 8 is too easy to find/track so it's best to split up - you check the southwest corner and we'll check the southeast", but that's kind of weak. OR to have some sort of time pressure so they don't have time to check both corners as a group of 8 and need to split - but the adventure isn't really designed for that since it's more about exploring the island than racing to the finish.

tl;dr - Basically, grouping the "party of 8" makes the most logical sense to everyone ("Don't split the party" and all) but that would ruin combat and steal the show from the players.

[nbates]

Don't forget to take NPC morale into effect. (pg. 58 of book 1)

I actually just finished DMing book 1 of Serpent's Skull last night and started on the first steps of book 2. Soon after the shipwreck, my NPCs all had terrible morale. I described this to the players that they didn't seem very stable, might not be able to perform in combat, might run at the sound of a twig snapping, were uncooperative, etc.

The players gave the NPCs the job of setting up a semi-permanent camp after making some successful diplomacy and intimidate checks. I conveyed to the players that they felt having this camp site would be beneficial so the NPCs could have a more "secure" place to rest.

In the event that the players insist the NPCs follow them, perhaps you could have them perform terribly in combat the first time, possibly dropping their weapons, running scared/cowering, making poor decisions, etc. The players might actually see them as a liability and make a different plan.

Also a random suggestion, keep track of the cannibals they kill throughout the module and take that into account when they get to the lighthouse. My players "snuck" into the camp when 13 generic cannibals, Malorak, the skeletons, and Malikadna were present. It took me a while to get into the flow of keeping initiative straight and running smoothly.

The 5 NPCs are used early on in book 2 in order to provide a plausible reason for others in town finding out about their adventure on Smuggler's Shiv, so be careful if you're thinking of killing them off. Only Ishirou died in my campaign, and it

These suggestions may not fit your group at all, but they worked for me. Good luck with your campaign and whatever you decide!

[Crustypeanut]

Its definitely reasonable that the NPCs aren't interested in fighting their way to the lighthouse. As the above-poster mentioned, they may just be too demoralized to fight, despite being friendly. I haven't read that campaign, so I don't know their personalities, but they may be cowards, lazy, etc, and this might be a good reason as to why they wouldn't want to accompany the PCs on such a dangerous mission.

That, and the npcs may want to build a basecamp, despite the players not wanting to. So the NPCs do that, while the players do their thing.

The players are the active ones - they're the ones with the drive to go do things. NPCs are rarely like that, and would be more interested in getting food, water, etc.

[Kol Korran]

actually my questions were directed more at players and PCs personalities, rather than NPCs... i usually find it easier to work something according to the player motives and such, it makes the events seem to come from them.

the above posters have mentioned he main things- though they have PC classes, they are not necessarily of the "adventurer's cast"- either demoralized, or just not used to these circumstances, and not willing to easily throw their lives away- the fighter might be used to be a city guard, the bard a performer, the cleric a priest to a small congregation and so on. They never thought they would be on such an adventure! oh my! the most logical and safest thing to do would be to build a defensible camp, don't you think?

[Crustypeanut]

actually my questions were directed more at players and PCs personalities, rather than NPCs... i usually find it easier to work something according to the player motives and such, it makes the events seem to come from them.

the above posters have mentioned he main things- though they have PC classes, they are not necessarily of the "adventurer's cast"- either demoralized, or just not used to these circumstances, and not willing to easily throw their lives away- the fighter might be used to be a city guard, the bard a performer, the cleric a priest to a small congregation and so on. They never thought they would be on such an adventure! oh my! the most logical and safest thing to do would be to build a defensible camp, don't you think?

I agree, actually. But its always useful for us to know the NPC's characteristics.. even if the PCs are the important ones. Still, its likely that the Npcs are not adventuring types, and just want to hunker down and let the adventurous ones adventure to save them.

[Killer Angel]

I've played that module.
Our DM presented the NPC as 1st level, and less competent than us... let's say, "unoptimized" (we were 1st, and when the NPC turned friendly, we were 2nd level).
So yeah, they were helpful, but we leave them out of the potentially dangerous situations, 'cause we don't want to have to protect them, and their help was marginal (some arrows, cure after combat and so on).

In your case, I fear this is no more possible... But still, they can be helpful in the same, non excessive way (one NPC can support from distance with arrows, one NPC can be hurt in the first combat round and onother one will take it away, thus removing 2 NPCs from combat, and so on).