Death from Non-lethal possible?

[AzazelSephiroth]

Just as the topic says...RAW answer if possible
Is it possible to die from non-lethal damage? For example say a paladin with spirited charge criticals with a merciful lance (all damage is changed to non-lethal) but the total damage is more than twice your normal HP... do you die? Or are you just really really unconscious?
Thanks a bunch in advance!

[andromax]

It is not "real" damage.


That kinda sums it up.

It works a little differently than your HP total..



Instead, when your nonlethal damage equals your current hit points, you’re staggered, and when it exceeds your current hit points, you fall unconscious.
It doesn’t matter whether the nonlethal damage equals or exceeds your current hit points because the nonlethal damage has gone up or because your current hit points have gone down.

I believe you can go quite negative and it heals at a rate of 1 per HD per hour.

[ArcturusV]

From what I can see though, it's possible. But only in one occurrence.

This is the "If you take 50 or more damage from a single attack..." clause, requiring at DC 15 Fort save to avoid death. That's the only way I can see Non-Lethal damage possibly killing someone per the book.

[AzazelSephiroth]

Okay so assuming you either made the dc15 (an attack over 50 damage at once)
or all the attacks were less than 50 at once... you can in theory be knocked to -1000 hp or more but you are still alive?

Okay, thank you for the help. the above quotes were all I could find as well. :smallsmile:

[Chilingsworth]

Well, I was going to say that thirst and starvation could set in if there was enough nonlethal damage. But... it seems that those just cause more (albeit unhealable until food/water are consumed) nonlethal damage.

therefore, not only is nonlethal damage actually completely nonlethal, so are thirst and starvation. :smallconfused:

[Inucune]

Non-lethal puts you in a coma. in theory, you can die of exposure, dehydration, sufficate or starve. but not directly from nonlethal no.

['Able' Xanthis]

Well, I was going to say that thirst and starvation could set in if there was enough nonlethal damage. But... it seems that those just cause more (albeit unhealable until food/water are consumed) nonlethal damage.

therefore, not only is nonlethal damage actually completely nonlethal, so are thirst and starvation. :smallconfused:

:smallconfused: What? Really? Wow, that is just crazy... but then again this is the world where you can kill a person wearing full plat and never once cut through the armor, as that would be sundering and everyone knows you can't sunder worn armor.

[Chilingsworth]

Non-lethal puts you in a coma. in theory, you can die of exposure, dehydration, suffocate or starve. but not directly from nonlethal no.

Exposure, yes (if you're in an enviornment outside of the acceptable human range.) You wouldn't be able to suffocate, though, and thirst and starvation just deal more nonlethal damage... at least, acording to the SRD.

[TuggyNE]

There are various more or less common houserules to allow it, but by RAW it's impossible to die directly from non-lethal damage.

I hadn't ever considered applying massive damage rules to non-lethal; it seems rather funky, but perhaps it still fits. However, that's still an indirect result, and can be avoided with a fairly easy fortitude save. (Flat DC 15? Really?)

[Kobold-Bard]

Okay so assuming you either made the dc15 (an attack over 50 damage at once)
or all the attacks were less than 50 at once... you can in theory be knocked to -1000 hp or more but you are still alive?

Okay, thank you for the help. the above quotes were all I could find as well. :smallsmile:

You can never go -1000HP from non-lethal damage, because n-l damage doesn't ever change your hit point total. You track n-l damage as a totally separate number that goes up from zero, and once that number equals or exceeds your current hit points you fall unconscious.

I would also say that you can't die from massive n-l damage, becase again it never alters your hit points.

Obviously once you black out some random ogre can put an axe through your skull or a blizzard can end you, but n-l damage never will.

[ArcturusV]

RAW it seems to fit as far as I can tell. Though not bloody likely. RAI... maybe? I can see the point of it. Knocking someone out typically takes a light touch. Well, not "light" but you can't just go all out.

A dragon tries to "just knock you out" but a claw hits you for 60 damage? Makes sense even if it wasn't trying to that it might still quash you. Similiarly with a Merciful Lance on a mounted charge hitting "just that sweet spot" where it kills you despite the lack of intention.

[Worira]

A Merciful weapon is just straight-up magic, though, so I'm not sure it's reasonable to hold it to the same standards as other nonlethal weapons if you rule that those can accidentally kill someone. This isn't a lance with a beanbag tip, this is a lance imbued by holy magic with the ability to avoid causing lasting harm.

[Krazzman]

As I think this one spreads from me, I have to say we were using PF-rules then.

The rule therefore:
"If a creature's nonlethal damage is equal to his total maximum hit points (not his current hit points), all further nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage. This does not apply to creatures with regeneration...."

That's the Pathfinder rule on it. And afair this rule was also in 3.5 but we never used that there so I can't tell for sure.

[Worira]

That rule does not exist in 3.5.

[Ashtagon]

It is possible to take enough non-lethal damage that you don't wake up in time to eat/drink, which triggers a separate type of non-lethal damage that can't be recovered until you eat/drink.

So while you can't actually die from non-lethal, you can enter what amounts to an effectively permanent coma.

(d20 Modern has starvation/thirst damage as normal lethal, but not D&D).

[MukkTB]

In PF it can kill you. 3.5 no.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Thirst can kill you. The rules regarding dehydration found in sandstorm turn the non-lethal damage lethal after a certain point.

[Twilightwyrm]

By RAW, only from taking 50 or more in one attack. Otherwise, you could theoretically keep beat a person for nonlethal fist damage infinity.
In general, I rule that any attack against a creature that is already at their HP +10 or more nonlethal damage automatically deals lethal damage. This allows for you do beat someone to death with your fists, while preventing merciful types from accidentally killing that fleeing thief with their nonlethal damage.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Characters rendered unconscious by non-lethal damage from severe heat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#heatDangers) begin taking lethal damage (1d4 per 10 minutes). The non-lethal damage itself doesn't kill them, but it sets them up for it.

[ngilop]

death from non lethal damage is one of those rules that WoTC never really thought through fully. Much like how drowning heals you and other such nonsense.

Pathfidner did the whole twice your max HP in non lethal = death, and so did 11st/2nd ed.. IDK why 3rd decided (or forgot) to leave that out.

there are some points in a game where RAW just isn't right and you are going to have to make a rulling against the actual rules.

I tried to explain this to a sort of new DM once, as i was playing under him. He refused to accept anythig but how the rules were written, SO to show him how that sometimes you need to un-rule a rule I pulled the old endless wish trick and only made wishes like getting cupcakes and about 400 or so daggers made out of copper.

was that a bit extreme, maybe, but sometimes you have to do extremem things. actions speak louder than words and sometimes doing your argument in game is much better than making your argument out of game.