Warblade Build Help!!! Tell me how much I suck.

[Deceit]

Hi everyone, I was wondering if I could get some feedback regarding a build I've drafted. I chose the skills with the intention of being able to do several things well, and while I understand I could go into some heavier optimization for MAXIMUM CARNAGE, the campaign I'm in more RP than combat heavy. Furthermore no one else is really optimizing half as much as I am, so I don't feel a need to "compete." Still, I don't like taking stupid feats or skills for stupid reasons and, as such, I present my build for you great masters of D&D 3.5e to judge.


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Build order is presented as such. Maneuvers which have been replaced are marked with an "X." Race is human, weapon is Greatspear with some houserules implemented (can use at point-blank range without penalty, etc.), but DM allowed it because I had to drop a feat for the weapon.


Level 1:
* Moment of Perfect Mind
X Sapphire Nightmare Blade
X Steel Wind
* * Punishing Stance
* * * Feat: Exotic Weapon Proficiency
* * * Feat: Power Attack

Level 2:
X Steely Strike

Level 3:
X Wolf Fang Strike
* * * Feat: Improved Bull Rush

Level 4:


Level 5:
* Iron Heart Surge
* * Leaping Dragon Stance
* * * Bonus Feat: Improved Initiative

Level 6:
* Wall of Blades (swap Steely Strike)
* * * Feat: Shock Trooper


Level 7:
X Death from Above

Level 8:
* Dancing Mongoose (swap Wolf Fang Strike)

Level 9:
* Pouncing Charge (swap SNB)
* * * Feat: Leap Attack
* * * Bonus Feat: Ironheart Aura

Level 10:
* Lightning Recovery (swap Steel Wind)
* * Dancing Blade Form

Level 11:
* Moment of Alacrity

Level 12:
------
* * * Feat: Stormguard Warrior

Level 13:
* Avalanche of Blades
* * * Bonus Feat: Combat Reflexes


Level 14:
* Quicksilver Motion (swap Death from Above)

Level 15:
* Adamantine Hurricane
* * * Feat: Adaptive Style

Level 16:
* Diamond Nightmare Blade (swap RNB)
* * Stance of Alacrity

Level 17:
* Time Stands Still
* * * Bonus Feat: Blind-Fight

Level 18:
-----
* * * Feat: Martial Study - Mountain Tombstone Strike

Level 19:
* Strike of Perfect Clarity

Level 20:
* ??? (seems like I have all maneuvers I want, and nothing I want to swap)


Maneuvers: Moment of Perfect Mind, Lightning Recovery, Moment of Alacrity, Raging Mongoose, Pouncing Charge, Avalanche of Blades, Time Stands Still.


My combo is to basically use Moment of Alacrity + Channel the Storm from the get go, then use the Power Attack/Shocktrooper/Leap Attack/Pouncing Charge combo for a huge amount of frontloaded damage, while dropping my AC to abysmal levels (hello healers). Or maybe I will wait a round and use Adaptive Style to swap Moment of Alacrity to Wall of Blades before charging?

Oh opponent's turn, Channel the Storm + Robilar's Gambit kicks in. After absorbing all those potential AoOs and withholding them, I apply the attack bonus to a round of Avalanche of Blades. Here, the -8 penalty becomes -4 for every charge of Channel the Storm I have, giving me an effective +1 bonus to all my iterative attacks when using Avalanche of Blades (as opposed to the normal -5 penalty when making a full attack).

Then, in the next round, I proceed to use Raging Mongoose + Time Stands Still for MAXIMUM CARNAGE.

Thoughts?

[Keld Denar]

There is a major flaw in your build. When it says Warblade 2, that means that it is a level 2 maneuver. Similar to spell levels, you don't get 2nd level maneuvers at level 2, you get them at 3. Similar, you get 3rd at 5, 4th at 7, etc. Basically, the same rate that a wizard or cleric gains new levels of spells.

So yea, everything after level one is wrong.

BTW, what weapon were you thinking? What feats? That makes a little difference for maneuver selection.

[Deceit]

There is a major flaw in your build. When it says Warblade 2, that means that it is a level 2 maneuver. Similar to spell levels, you don't get 2nd level maneuvers at level 2, you get them at 3. Similar, you get 3rd at 5, 4th at 7, etc. Basically, the same rate that a wizard or cleric gains new levels of spells.

So yea, everything after level one is wrong.

BTW, what weapon were you thinking? What feats? That makes a little difference for maneuver selection.


I just realized that. To be honest, Rabid Wolf Strike was just filler, basically. Here you go: Wolf Fang Strike. Completely useless for me, but it works.

Everything else SHOULD work as intended. I've gone over this thing way too many times for it to not be a valid progression. Or I could be wrong. :smallfrown:

The weapon I'm intending to use is a Greatspear! That's why I selected Dancing Blade Form as my third stance. I'd like to abuse the 15 ft. reach. Hell, I might consider dropping Adaptive Style for Mage Slayer... actually, if I could take Mage Slayer earlier I would, but I don't think I can fit it in there unless I skipped Exotic Weapon Proficiency for a normal weapon. But that kind of defeats the theme of the character I've made (inspired by Mikael Kreoss from Warmachine, and Imperius from Diablo III).

[DEMON]

I might be misreading something but it it looks like you think you qualify for X-level maneuvers at character level X, which is not the case. You qualify for them at a particular initiator level.
IL 1 - Man/Stance 1
IL 3 - Man/Stance 2
IL 5 - Man/Stance 3
IL 7 - Man/Stance 4
IL 9 - Man/Stance 5
IL 11 - Man/Stance 6
IL 13 - Man/Stance 7
IL 15 - Man/Stance 8
IL 17 - Man/Stance 9

So you pretty much need to rework the whole chart.

Edit: Warblade'd :smallbiggrin:

[Keld Denar]

You still have Wall of Blades, a 2nd level maneuver, at 2nd level.

I like Hunters Stance as my 2nd 1st level stance. Combat stances are a dime a dozen, but utility stances are golden. That, or the White Raven charging stance if you plan on Shocktroopering it up. In fact, your feats say "I wanna charge", but you have a total lack of White Raven, the charging school. The X-leader's Charge line is a very excellent line of maneuvers for a Shocktrooper.

Its worth noting that as written, you can't use Mithril Tornado with a great spear. At all. Unlike Steel Wind, Mithril Tornado (and Adamantine Hurricane) allow you to hit adjacent foes. Great spears can not attack adjacent foes. The wording on those maneuvers should have said threatened, rather than adjacent, but I would consult with your DM before you take them.

Otherwise, things look ok. Probably want to grab Mountain Tombstone Strike at 19, since it has no prereqs,

[DEMON]

I just realized that. To be honest, Rabid Wolf Strike was just filler, basically. Here you go: Wolf Fang Strike. Completely useless for me, but it works.

Everything else SHOULD work as intended. I've gone over this thing way too many times for it to not be a valid progression. Or I could be wrong. :smallfrown:

The weapon I'm intending to use is a Greatspear! That's why I selected Dancing Blade Form as my third stance. I'd like to abuse the 15 ft. reach.

Just keep in mind the Dancing Blade Form only improves your reach on your turn, not for your AOOs, therefore it's not compatible with Robilar's Gambit. OTOH a long reach weapon that you can't use to attack adjacent targets and adjacent foes delivering the pain to you means you need something to hit these suckers with (e.g. armor spikes).

[Deceit]

You still have Wall of Blades, a 2nd level maneuver, at 2nd level.

I like Hunters Stance as my 2nd 1st level stance. Combat stances are a dime a dozen, but utility stances are golden. That, or the White Raven charging stance if you plan on Shocktroopering it up. In fact, your feats say "I wanna charge", but you have a total lack of White Raven, the charging school. The X-leader's Charge line is a very excellent line of maneuvers for a Shocktrooper.

Its worth noting that as written, you can't use Mithril Tornado with a great spear. At all. Unlike Steel Wind, Mithril Tornado (and Adamantine Hurricane) allow you to hit adjacent foes. Great spears can not attack adjacent foes. The wording on those maneuvers should have said threatened, rather than adjacent, but I would consult with your DM before you take them.

Otherwise, things look ok. Probably want to grab Mountain Tombstone Strike at 19, since it has no prereqs,

Fixed!!! Thanks for spotting my mistake.

Regarding White Raven maneuvers, my DM has ruled for pretty much all WR school techniques to mean bonuses to ALLIES ONLY when they say allies. So for me, it would be easier to just ignore this line.



Just keep in mind the Dancing Blade Form only improves your reach on your turn, not for your AOOs, therefore it's not compatible with Robilar's Gambit. OTOH a long reach weapon that you can't use to attack adjacent targets and adjacent foes delivering the pain to you means you need something to hit these suckers with (e.g. armor spikes).


Thanks for your advice. I will definitely consult my DM regarding the usage of Greatspear for the purposes of attacking adjacent targets.

Basically we agreed to this: at the start of my character's actions/attacks every round, declare whether to use it as a long-ranged or short-ranged weapon. If long-ranged, use rules as is. If short-ranged, let it be able to attack adjacent opponents, and follow the same rules as any other non-ranged weapon (sword, etc.). My character cannot change the style he's using in the middle of a round.

[Dusk Eclipse]

FWI in D&D allies explicitely include yourself, check the glosary in the back of the PHB.

[WhatBigTeeth]

Why aren't you trading maneuvers up? Neglecting those swaps is like the only way to screw up a Warblade.

[Deceit]

I am under the impression that to have certain high level maneuvers, the ones which require a certain number of prerequisite maneuvers, you must keep prerequisite maneuvers and also keep the prerequisites to THOSE maneuvers met.

For example, Wolf Fang Strike is needed for Death From Above to exist, and Pouncing Charge needs both to exist, and that I CANNOT swap out either WFS or DFA with say, maneuvers from other disciplines, or even the same discipline which have different prerequisites.

I would love to be wrong...

[Darrin]

I am under the impression that to have certain high level maneuvers, the ones which require a certain number of prerequisite maneuvers, you must keep prerequisite maneuvers and also keep the prerequisites to THOSE maneuvers met.


No. You need the prerequisite maneuvers only when you *learn* a new maneuver (and stances count as maneuvers for the purposes of prereqs). Once a maneuver is known, you don't lose that maneuver, even if you swap its prereqs to something else.

In your example, Wolf Fang Strike is the prereq for Death From Above, and both of those are prereqs for Pouncing Charge. Once you know Pouncing Charge, you can swap out Wolf Fang Strike or Death From Above for something else, either from Tiger Claw or from another discipline.

[Artillery]

I am under the impression that to have certain high level maneuvers, the ones which require a certain number of prerequisite maneuvers, you must keep prerequisite maneuvers and also keep the prerequisites to THOSE maneuvers met.

For example, Wolf Fang Strike is needed for Death From Above to exist, and Pouncing Charge needs both to exist, and that I CANNOT swap out either WFS or DFA with say, maneuvers from other disciplines, or even the same discipline which have different prerequisites.

I would love to be wrong...

Maneuvers and Stance's count toward their own prereq after you have them. For instance you might have Steel Wind as a Manuever and at lvl 5 you take Iron Heart Surge. Iron Heart Surge has a Prereq of 1 Iron Heart Maneuver. After you have Iron Heart Surge you have 2 Iron Heart Manuevers, so you can trade away Steel Wind without issue when you replace maneuvers.

Stances count as maneuvers for prereqs as well.

[Deceit]

Wow, and here I was trying to create a progression with my self-imposed limitations.

Thanks for all the clarifications.

I edited my initial post with an updated progression sheet. I skipped Ruby Nightmare Blade this time around, instead taking Moment of Alacrity at level 11. Do you guys think it's really that useful? Consider that I don't have Adaptive Style until level 15, I'm basically stuck with whatever combat maneuvers I start with every encounter, I assume.

Maybe hold off on Moment of Alacrity until later and just take up as much damage maneuvers as possible?