[Pathfinder] Why are "Sin Runes" So horribly overpriced?

[Cipher Stars]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/thassilonian-runes

Sin Runes.


Why are they so overpriced?
I mean, look at that Palaquin rune. 135,000 gp to mimic a second (Well, usually third) level spell once per day.

I was wondering what the logic behind them is. In my mind they're only worth anywhere from 2,000-20,000 at most, so with that massive price difference you can see how I'm confused with them.

[Cambrian]

Probably because they are "free" magic items in that they don't cost an item slot. That tends to always inflate the price. But some of them are quite cheap: rune of resistance gives energy resistance 10 to two energy types for 45k. If someone in the party has inscribe rune it costs 22.5k which is amazingly good for ER that doesnt consume an item slot or take up actions for spells.

[Starbuck_II]

Probably because they are "free" magic items in that they don't cost an item slot. That tends to always inflate the price. But some of them are quite cheap: rune of resistance gives energy resistance 10 to two energy types for 45k. If someone in the party has inscribe rune it costs 22.5k which is amazingly good for ER that doesnt consume an item slot or take up actions for spells.

Removing Slots only doubles price.

1/day 3rd level spells are not 67, 000 (1/2 of 135K).

[Jeraa]

Probably because they are "free" magic items in that they don't cost an item slot. That tends to always inflate the price.

Slotless items only double the cost. Still though, some of the runes are appropriately priced.

A ring of minor elemental resistance grants resistance 10 to a single element and costs 12,000gp. The rune of resistance offers the same protection as the ring, but to two elements, so it should cost double (24,000). However, its a slotless item, so double the cost again. 48,000gp. The rune actually costs 45,000gp. Close enough.

As for the Rune of the Lord’s Palanquin, thats a bit difference. Phantom Steed, as a command activated item at caster level 15, should cost 81,000gp. Double that for slotless (162,000gp). It can only be activated 1/day, however, it has no duration. It lasts until you dismiss it. (It only has the abilities of the Phantom Steed, it doesn't copy the spell itself). That is worth a discount, but not as much of a discount as a 1/day item would get.

[Cipher Stars]

I would point out that they aren't slotless, they take up Slot: Rune. A creature can have only one rune, even if the arm it was inscribed on got severed or something. Only miracle, wish, or a mage’s disjunction can remove it from what I can tell.

Still. At least I see the thought process behind it now, though I wouldn't play those crazy prices unless it was actually slotless and not "One rune, ever!".

Duration-less Palanquin does make it a more worth it I suppose, far from it's actual cost. Can't you like build castles and big ships with that amount of money? :smalleek:

[Cambrian]

Removing Slots only doubles price.

1/day 3rd level spells are not 67, 000 (1/2 of 135K).
True, but then it also has the advantage of being unstealable/near impossible to destroy.

They also are great for GMs. They allow them to add "magic items" to enemies without offsetting WBL considerations because a character cant take the runes. (actually im picturing a vivisectionist grafting one onto another person... *shudders*)

I agree some are horribly costed but there are some great advantages to them.

[Jeraa]

I would point out that they aren't slotless, they take up Slot: Rune. A creature can have only one rune, even if the arm it was inscribed on got severed or something. Only miracle, wish, or a mage’s disjunction can remove it from what I can tell.

Technically, thats correct. It adds a new slot. But adding a new slot to the list is almost the same as being slotless (the item doesn't take up any of the normal slots). But since it isn't quite as good as being totally slotless, its probably not worth as much as a true slotless item (double cost).

But with the added benefit of being hard to remove, it probably evens out.

[Spuddles]

Slotless items only double the cost. Still though, some of the runes are appropriately priced.

A ring of minor elemental resistance grants resistance 10 to a single element and costs 12,000gp. The rune of resistance offers the same protection as the ring, but to two elements, so it should cost double (24,000). However, its a slotless item, so double the cost again. 48,000gp. The rune actually costs 45,000gp. Close enough.

As for the Rune of the Lord’s Palanquin, thats a bit difference. Phantom Steed, as a command activated item at caster level 15, should cost 81,000gp. Double that for slotless (162,000gp). It can only be activated 1/day, however, it has no duration. It lasts until you dismiss it. (It only has the abilities of the Phantom Steed, it doesn't copy the spell itself). That is worth a discount, but not as much of a discount as a 1/day item would get.

That's not how doubling in d&d works, though.

[Jeraa]

That's not how doubling in d&d works, though.

Its exactly how doubling works in this case.


When applying multipliers to real-world values (such as weight or distance), normal rules of math apply instead. A creature whose size doubles (thus multiplying its weight by 8) and then is turned to stone (which would multiply its weight by a factor of roughly 3) now weighs about 24 times normal, not 10 times normal. Similarly, a blinded creature attempting to negotiate difficult terrain would count each square as 4 squares (doubling the cost twice, for a total multiplier of ×4), rather than as 3 squares (adding 100% twice).

Price of an item would be considered a real-world value.

[jmelesky]

That's not how doubling in d&d works, though.

For bonuses, damage dice, crits, etc, you're correct, but I believe doubling works like normal math when it comes to magic item creation costs.