Snowbluff is asking for build help.

[Snowbluff]

Hell froze over and she/it/he's is feeling like a noob again.

Here is the character. (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=64068)
Spellwarped Human Wizard3/MasterAbjurer5/Abjurantchampion5/LegacyChampion5//Rogue3/Fighter2/Incarnate10

I fight with a bow. I cast buffs. Knowledge Devotion gives the same benefits of the Chaos Incarnate soulmelds. I am thinking of replacing the 10 Incarnate levels. Anyone have any ideas what to do with the levels?

[Feralventas]

I'd want to know what your character concept is before proceeding, but from what I can tell you're looking to go as a Mage/Thief/Fighter that uses obscure powers to surprise foes (using something less understood to avoid being caught, while building your reputation on magic and simple trickery to make folks look for that instead.)

Tome of Battle classes do well as multi-class options, especially at higher levels, though since you're ranged, you'd probably want to get the Falling Star homebrew maneuvers approved. Tome of Magic options might also suit you, though Binding is the more formally known one.

Unseen Seer capitalizes somewhat more on the build's prior powers if you just want to focus on those, as does Spell Warp Sniper.

[docnessuno]

Have you considered going for a melee-oriented build?

(specialist) Wizard 5 / Abjurant champion 5 / Legacy champion 5
Swashbuckler 5 / Rogue 3 / Swordsage 1 / Rogue +2 / Swordsage +3 / Swashbuckler +1

Highlights:
Avoids using PRCs simultaneously on both sides of the gestalt.
+14 BAB, Casts as a 14th level wizard, 8d6 SA
Dex to hit and damage, Int to damage, able to SA normally immune targets.
5th level manouvers

[nedz]

You seem to want Combat and Skills on your second side ?

Ranger is the go to class for this, but the Daring Outlaw build should work well also. How you mix the Rogue and Swash depends upon whether you want BAB or skill points, though with your Int Swash probably is the way to go.

I like the +4 Literature in your possession BTW. Very jazzy :smallwink:

[Snowbluff]

I'd want to know what your character concept is before proceeding, but from what I can tell you're looking to go as a Mage/Thief/Fighter that uses obscure powers to surprise foes (using something less understood to avoid being caught, while building your reputation on magic and simple trickery to make folks look for that instead.)
Well, I was thinking about doing buffing, dispelling, archery + poison (Tiny sean snake familiar)as my attack option. On the first round I would use SA + Staggering Strike to mess up enemy actions.

Tome of Battle classes do well as multi-class options, especially at higher levels, though since you're ranged, you'd probably want to get the Falling Star homebrew maneuvers approved. Tome of Magic options might also suit you, though Binding is the more formally known one.

Bow. It's a bow. The weapon I am fighting with is a bow. I am not much of a homebrew person, either.


You seem to want Combat and Skills on your second side ?

Ranger is the go to class for this, but the Daring Outlaw build should work well also. How you mix the Rogue and Swash depends upon whether you want BAB or skill points, though with your Int Swash probably is the way to go.

I like the +4 Literature in your possession BTW. Very jazzy :smallwink:
Well, Swashbuckler doesn't do anything. At all. It's awful, and I won't get int to damage, unless Longbows are Finesse-able.
Ranger2 would get me Rapid shot, and i can fit it on my first level for the BaB and better skills.

I was thinking about picking up some Factotum. Factotum 8 would give Standard actions for Many shot flurries. Or i can add Int to some of my attacks.

[nedz]

Well, Swashbuckler doesn't do anything. At all. It's awful, and I won't get int to damage, unless Longbows are Finesse-able.

Ranger2 would get me Rapid shot, and i can fit it on my first level for the BaB and better skills.


Well Swashbuckler is awful; but Swashbuckler + Rogue + Daring Outlaw = Full BAB + Full Sneak.

How about some Ranger Variant ?
Mystic Ranger is an obvious choice, but it may not be allowed ?
Swift Hunter ?
SotAO is pointless, because ... Wizard.
Wild Shape Ranger ?

[Snowbluff]

Well Swashbuckler is awful; but Swashbuckler + Rogue + Daring Outlaw = Full BAB + Full Sneak.
I'd rather go full rogue and safe myself the feat. I mostly have SA for staggering strike.

How about some Ranger Variant ?
Mystic Ranger is an obvious choice, but it may not be allowed ?
Swift Hunter ?
SotAO is pointless, because ... Wizard.
Wild Shape Ranger ?

Hmm...
No Dragon.
Useless for the same reasons as Daring Outlaw.
If you can find me a 5HD medium form with with better Dex/Str than I, I'll consider it.

[Piggy Knowles]

Incarnate is a pretty decent ranged option, does well for flexibility and means you don't have to blow feats on Point Blank Shot/Precise Shot, thanks to the Sighting Gloves. I know it overlaps with Knowledge Devotion a bit, but you'll still get some good mileage out of it, so I wouldn't be in such a rush to discard it.

The other options I'd consider would be straight archivist on the other side, or incarnate 5/chameleon 10. The main goal here is to pick up the juicy ranger archery spells, which tend to be either swift action casting or easily persistable, or both.

Incarnate 5 will allow you to bind things like the Sighting Gloves with no trouble, and still leaves you with a use of the fabulously flexible rapid meldshaping, and you'll get the joy of being a 10th level chameleon to boot. (Of course, I'm not sure if you'll be able to eke in the necessary ranks in disguise, so you may actually need to do rogue 1/incarnate 4 instead - still gives you the Hands meld you need, but you lose rapid meldshaping.)

On the other hand, archivist is a strictly stronger option, and has a lot of synergy with Knowledge Devotion. (Stunning enemies with dark tactics is a good lead-in for you also.) You could do worse than just going archivist 15, or start with archivist 11 and pick up earth dreamer for the last few levels. Earth Sight + brilliant arrow is a pretty fun combo, letting you shoot at enemies through solid walls.

[Snowbluff]

We already have an Archivist. The Incarnate is overlapping everywhere, and Chaos one don't have anything valuable.

Or I could just dip fighter and have knowledge devotionfor my Int based character who has knowledges as skill for the same benefit. :smalltongue:

I did want to go chameleon, but you can't level 2 PrCs in the same level in gestalt. :smallfrown:

[nedz]

You're looking at a multi-threat gestalt build — you are bound to overlap someone.

[Piggy Knowles]

I did want to go chameleon, but you can't level 2 PrCs in the same level in gestalt. :smallfrown:

Gah, sorry - don't know how I missed that.

Well, there's always the gestalt standby of factotum. There are very few builds that Cunning Surge won't be a big boost for, and you'll take decent advantage of just about everything factotum has to offer.

There's also the artificer. Even if you don't want to craft items, the infusions can be an excellent help to you. I'm playing a factotum/artificer right now that pretty much strictly uses infusions rather than crafting shenanigans, and it's still amazingly flexible.

But looking at what you seem to be looking for, I might actually suggest a rogue/swordsage/warblade mix. While overall ToB and archery don't usually mix that well, you've still got a lot of boosts, stances and counters that aren't dependent on a melee weapon. Wall of Blades and Covering Strike, for instance, don't specify that you need a melee weapon, and in many ways work better with a bow. And there are very few characters that don't do well with White Raven Tactics.

Blood in the Water is another good one. Archers excel at volley attacks, meaning you are making a lot of attack rolls with a lot of chances to roll a crit. The Blood in the Water stance will give you untyped bonuses every time you do, making those volley attacks far more accurate. For a level 1 stance that's hard to beat. Woodland Archer feat helps with this as well, and between the two of them, you can avoid the inaccuracy that can sometimes plague archers.